A few good choices you see in human al jazeera making. You and this jenny. Now, French Police have shots and killed a man who set fire to a synagogue and the northwest and city food on the night and climbed up the side of the building and then to an object similar to a molotov cocktail into the main prairie. And the synagogue suffered extensive damage, but no one was injured. The French Interior minister says it was an unacceptable active anti semitism and says the non was not from from this, but for all the of al julian origin. Its now mount able on indonesia is remote, how my hair island has erupt. Again, this is based on the 2nd massive erupt sion in 2 days. Its now in steering ash and smoke 5000 kilometers into the sky with ours, hes from a low for his austin mitigation agency, began evacuating people last on thursday, after raising the a lot stages towards the very highest level. Residents and tourists have been told to stay out of the exclusions are, and im also aware of face mask in case of phoning ash. Now scientists, University West and australia have released rare footage of a deep sea squid capture audio this month. If youre watching the moment is that the square wrapped, its around the camera that it is mistaken from pray on a remote to the operations underwashed a vehicle bright fire them. Nothing lights can you, which is often used to stock will prey, can also be seen on 2 of the animals tentacles. Right . That as it approaches the camera, all thats it for me in the style is u t. You can always find more on al jazeera dot com. Ill be back with will office judy, or be on script. The, on counting, the cost of indias income inequality gap is whitening. So how can poor people get the share of the wealth . How much does the us spend in foreign aid and does about funding how to boost global stability . Plus why zambia has band charcoal production products . Counting the cost on how to 0, the water is happening today is happening on our watch. The news from now they will be people asking, how did you let it happen . Yeah. When way you, tragedy from me, of a democratic south africa is enough, typically worse than anywhere else. Its how quickly we sort of adopted the very told re global knowns as the intertwining of money and politics the thought into photography. Because i wanted social change to me. Politics. Thats not simply a question thats gonna get sent out. Its a question, a social movements. And the lives of everyday people. Youre looking perfect in this set up. My name is shane. Well, im not, im a southern journalist from my mother the or we have to ensure that as much unvarnished truth gets out into the world as possible. If that makes people resent us, so be it. When i try to investigations, i was threatened with removal from problem. My name is andrew find steve, and im a south african right to campaign a politician. The 2100 resigned over the amc governments failure to investigate the career of toms do he went on to rights about what they on straight is really about change profits rather than uh, security since discovering the power of news show, he knows been relentlessly documenting human rights abuses for working conditions. Im class differences, all of which also got him into trouble with his own government. So i know this love of photography. What was the rest of the sunday after appearing on . How does it right and criticizing the government for both of us, we want to hold the powerful accountable. So what is the role of the story . How do we reclaim our own narrative . Most to each of us do now to bring about social and political change. Join us on studio be, im the so 1st of all, just to say its so wonderful to be in conversation with you. Id like us to start with or wherever thing began for you obviously the bundle dish liberation, struggle in the variation level with central to the creation of the country. Tell us a little about way you were doing this to multi as time and how you came to realize the power of the media during the liberation will well, my niece this summer in the audience, the she was born on the 24th of most 1951, the for the genocide, and my 1st reaction on the night of the 25th was to get them out. And then that night i remember watching. Now the skies were red and theyd surround it. One of the newspapers that is most critical of the regina at that time to focus on a routine on a plane throws in and we could hear the screams of the people as they came out, who would be gummed. Yeah. So that was how it began. And from that period and on woods of the fact that we became independent so special to all of us, we was so hungry for news if a news week had been smuggled in from somewhere, there was a picture somewhere. But then much later, while i was doing my ph. D in london, i got involved with the socialist work as body began to see how they used images in their activism. And its no, im for middle class. So mean you go into these sort of respectable professions, the lawyer, the doctor, the engineer, whatever i thought does bundle, they really need to get to another research chemist. I thought id found the tool and if i was good to fight imperialism if i was to get a challenge power, i was going to use the most powerful tools at my disposal. And thats when i decided to become a photographer. But im not married to the medium and they for tomorrow photography, caesars to function about have no problems picking up something else. You know, i dont, did very well, but id seen a dog. Yes. I do. Whats nice about you, andrew . Uh, i mean, obviously you, you advertise yourself as a proud left is true. But what brings you here . What was that social fabric that is shaped to im the son of a holocaust survivor. My mom survived the 2nd world war in occupied vienna. And when she came to south africa, my dad, the south african, she felt that black south africans were being treated much like the jews of europe had been treated. So she got involved in the anti, a potted struggle through the wonderful Organization Called the black sash. And i grew up in that sort of media. But i think the other thing that is quite important is that my parents moved 29 times in the 32 years. They were together and liked south africans who didnt travel. I could find out about nelson mandela. I could find out about the amc. You know, it was illegal in south africa to have an image of monday left to learn some of his words and when he would be somewhere else and then come back. I would just think to myself, this is insane. This is, you know, why did black people have to disappear us of the areas we live in at sunset . Why are elderly black men and women called boy and girl and treated as the the subservient in some way . And i suppose that was really the roots of, of my politics and still to this day, i thinking phones. A lot of my politics are sort of a sense of full human beings being equal. And when you think back, you effectively started to document a movement for freedom and liberation. The all the aspects of your work that you think had the most impact. Having left an independent band with dish, i came back to find a bundle dish under an autocratic general. And i begun to take pictures of the booth to try and bring the general down. What also happened was i began to smell the tig, some history, the rebellion of all of the things that can view the adrenalin of whats happening. But then there was a particular thing that began cold crossfire, extrajudicial colleagues, being done by the Rapid Action Battalion. And i wanted to tell the story, know a, i dont think Rapid Action Battalion wouldve actually said, hey, by the way, be gonna kill someone. Can you come and take some pictures . So that wasnt here to be easy. But also i didnt really think showing bodies was go to add to it. I had to find some other way to tell that story. So when we spoke to the family members, they talked of how the 1st response of the 1st memory they had because of torches be shown on the face as the rapid action patel and come in. So i decided to leave the torchlight to light my images, right. So it was very conceptually, the sense of very allegorical. I think the government got scared, they decided they would close the show down. So the police came this around that gallery. What happened about time was those images puppy showed had an impact that no other exhibit of mine before had ever done. Oh wow. And the papers, a realization that they was, the vocabulary itself was important in how the story to be told. But, you know, if one were to top shutter will, investigations because ive been working a lot on corruption in the country and ive known to what you did off the policy and then a more recent book in terms of the small on trade. I see the parallels between countries high of 12 q there. So, you know, i got involved in the struggle against the potter date. My work briefly is a facilitator in the constitutional negotiations that led to the 1st democratic election in 1994. And i was elected that and that was an extraordinary time, you know, when my data was around. And the fact that everything we did was sort of in the interests of National Unity and national reconciliation. But as soon as monday, lets step down his successor. Im in the tragedy for me, of a democratic south africa is not that were worse than anywhere else. Its how quickly we sort of adopted the very told re global knowns of politics and economics and the intertwining of money and politics. And i was the ranking amc member on the Main FinancialOversight Committee when my own policy and government decided to spend 10000000000 dollars on weapons which we had absolutely no need of. So i stood up against that. And, and becky, who was in the president basically told me, i had a choice. I could have a great political career for the rest of my life. But i had to end this investigation. Oh, i could try and continue the investigation that forced me out of parliament. So i tried to continue the investigation and knew exactly when they were going to kick me out and i resigned the night before. But i want you to know more about what this global arms trade was, that its so corrected a young democracy. And thats what led for us to an Organization Called corruption watch. And then an Organization Called shadow world investigations which investigates the alms trade corruption and its impact on politics and on the world. But tell us a little bit about your organization that you created. Well, 3 set up last week because of my realization of how the narrative is controlled and what power the storyteller has. It started actually with the most observation i was having a show in belfast, and im very fond of kids. And i was staying with in new re, uh, been friends, place, and green. Uh, the little daughter would jump into my moms retail each other stories a one day. She uh she standing at the doorway rather than jumping up to my lap net just every up as of whats the magic, rena . Ive had clients in my pocket and im just putting them on the table and she says, youve got money to this. Ive got money, but you from the dish. Oh, she kind of work it out to. Yeah. And i could see how this image of the bangladesh she was that of an icon of poverty. I sort of okay, you know, like do you have these photographers visiting . I know they fly and they have diarrhea for 2 days. Im taping the no, but they create that image of what my country is and if we were to change that, we need to to be our own story. Tell us a lot because what 3 was a platform for us story tell us that feels like an appropriate point to ask if there are any questions from the audience. So in light of the very different struggles for liberation in both to your respective countries, south african bangladesh. So what are the impacts of those on struggles on the political landscape, corruption authoritarianism, and whats the impact on the citizens . Well i, i mentioned the military general and we were finally able to get the general down and we had an eviction. If you had an elective government, thats when we came to the realization that having an election in itself does not lead to democracy. Certainly the process itself is also be narrowed it but the fact that the democratic process actually requires far more than that i made requires active engagement. Office citizen 3 itself is something weve been now really recognized. And we also realize that while theres oldest rhetoric but democracy and freedom by international community, they would much rather have a plan dictated than some messy democracy. But i would like to come back to you on that because you know, i was the routine about it and power was similar today and see what led to the revolution and liberation. Yeah. But once they get the sense of entitlement once via that, now it is time for us to, to consume. This is out of, you know, you know, south africa are under a potty was brutal. And the a potted regime, spend the most cost, is it 14 percent on the militarization policing, etc, etc. And what happened off the 1994 when we became a democracy, is that the brutality of the townships effectively was now across the country. And, you know, all levels of Violent Crime are extreme and we remain in some ways quite a militarized society. You know, you did flip the switch on and off the one election, you suddenly have a peaceful Democratic Society in which everybody lives happily together. Are there any more questions from anyone . So you alluded to a relationship between the media and politics and the economics and i would be interested to on your pass and experience these. So we like work with each other, how these tenants of influence off. And then i would also really interested from your experiences also and social movements. What would you recommend to a social activists today so that we can win . Thank you. Do you want to give to the well, in terms of the media, it is said its a full of a state, suddenly placed in my country and i suspect elsewhere to main center media has abdicated. They have long since given up that troll they, they money making machines and in the interest of making money, they will make whatever decisions they need to make. They still keep on the veneer. But i mean, particularly today, i mean, im wearing this for a very specific reason. I think what Mainstream Media particularly invested in countries is doing is shameful. Yeah, the fact that they have so blatantly taken partisan positions is usually problematic, but it does talk about this next this off, the powerful entities. And the fact that media across the globe today is owned by the powerful means its no longer represents the public as such. And as long since failed to do so, i agree with that entirely. I mean, i think the commercialized media, which is how i refer to the main stream media, you know, awesome the Financial Institutions that own so much of the world. So the Defense Companies that i investigate and work on, they were owned by the same people pretty much when you look at the shared holdings and the inter relations of those. And you know, it, it sounds a little bit of glib, but there is a sort of an establishment narrative. We can have a democracy within this box. So long as we talk about the set of things, if you want to go outside that box and then unix stream is, then we dont want to hear your voice and we just ignore him. And of course were seeing it primarily around calls today. But were now seeing a situation where all politicians feel so out of touch with the people theyre supposed to represent about i think really important issue of hundreds and hundreds of innocent people being slaughtered every day. And i think that this gap just feels so wide now and its reflected in the media landscape. And i think what we all seeing now is 2 things that have been happening. One is the sort of the rise of alternative media. And its the one thing that gives me a lot of hope, the sort of quality of quite a lot of the attendance of media. I mean some of it is a roofing, but a lot of it is really impressive. Fact based, verifiable information. And the other side is this real notion of citizen, jen, is a you know, the fact that were seeing a genocide in real time on our screens is because of the coverage of people on the ground. And i honestly think that when we come to our senses, one of the impacts of this horrific tragedy is going to be a significant re alignment of how people get information, the news and who they do and dont trust which was particularly so idle. If a pig just speaks a 1000 words, what is the impact of this new technology as a on, on photo john as a, as an industry, particularly in terms of conflict such as we every now . Well i go back a long way of louise high and i think 19, im going to have this great statement saying while photo trusts may not lie, lawyers may take photographs. Today you have president s and generals and religious leaders who lives in that position. And i, i recognize what Digital Technology has done, what a i has done in terms of questioning the perceived veracity of the photographic image. I actually think its very healthy, because what it does is it takes the proof of the voracity and validity of the image away from the image itself and places it on the old. So if you believed or not, whether you believed or not, depends upon what your track record on what youve done, whether you have the credibility on us. Because whats the same . And i think the same should happen with images. I think the danger is that we implicitly believe in the image. Now the fact that its being pressed you and i think is healthy. So one of the things im particularly worried about is that we seem to repeat history again and again and again. So for example, since world war 2, and of course were seeing the, you know, a also genocides and nice trustees and now whats going on and gaza. And were also seeing a rise and fall right extremism across europe amongst the population. But what im worried about is that were going for just cycle where we say we never forget a never again. But then we end up guessing and committing the same mistakes that we did last time. I want to ask, is it possible that we can have a break out of the cycle . And if so, how society can we do that . Firstly, id like to say that we do actually learn from history. The history is an official narrative written by the theres a lovely african statement that goes until the lines find the Story Tellers story to about hunting below res, blurry 5, you have to come up as the basis on which we set up 3. We want to the platform for different story, tell us. And its a person who controls the narrative that determines what the story is. And i think we need to take over that narrative because they get away with it because there are officially subscribe histories with via fed continuously. And i think that entire process needs to be something that i would just add to that that we then use those official histories, the histories of the. Ready is who write it to justify what we do to violate the very notion of never again. And for me, that moment was when these really ambassador to the United Nations will a yellow star of david, like my mother had had to wear in occupied vienna when he justified israel slaughter of innocent palestinians that you know, that is not to ignore the fact that many israelis died on the 7th of october, and as human beings, we should always full way more than a week, but the death of any other human be. That is what to be human is in my opinion. But to suggest that the flow for of 6000000 people, jewish and 6000000 other people who are not jewish in any way justify what the state of israel is doing to people in gaza showed me how little of the actual lessons of history we learn. Because for me, so many descendants of survivors and survivors themselves. The lessons to take from a jewish history of suffering is how to avoid the suffering, not just of jews, but of anybody. And how it is only when we have justice throughout the world. When there is great to re quality threw out the will that were all going to actually feel safer. So i think shy, do is a 100 percent, right . We have to be very aware of who writes history and how history is used. And only then might we be able to learn something from it . I mean, i didnt know how you feel, but just from the questions you get a sense that we owe grappling. What is happening to our will. What is happening that, that these heart is, can take place that we are enabling and facilitating . Well, i would like to reflect on the fact that what is happening today is happening on our watch. The news from now there will be people asking, how did you let it happen . Yeah. Well, you know, i think each one of us needs to reflect upon that and insist that me cannot be completed in this process. The we sort of seem to be living in a moment, but often i think to myself, hang on the races are actually describing the lifelong anti racist as racist which is insane photo these countries that talk about democracy have thrown it out of the window. None of you who im sure protested in the streets, have been supported by your own government to call themselves democratic. The close of 27000 photographs of dead untutored civilians. Have you seen the photo so and in the prosecutor ulton did traditional investigation for disappearance, torture and crimes against humanity in the final part of the series, which is 0, follows the fight for justice through the courts. Its fairly straightforward in terms of establishing command responsibility as families and a lawyer space, a terrible deal in the search for the truth, the lost souls of syria. Well now just the era. The government challenges here as a business latex to be sponsored by interlock taxis. Real estate consultant, the base initial agents to be sponsored by interlock tuck. Hes real estate consultant. The is there any strikes devastated knowles and gaza at least 6 palestinian sheltering that your body of refugees have been killed . The color that i missed of you today. This is alger there at life from the also coming. And us build pair on gauze as coast receives 8 shipments for the 1st time about the u. N. Says moving them by land is safe at foster and far more efficient at the International Court of justice is around again, reject accusations of genocide and golf club off because of the i t js or the is around the whole. Its a passcode run. Im a person who says hes not planning to capture call cuz