Transcripts For ALJAZ Studio 20240703

A packing for merits that spread traditional buddhist teachings. With a growing following in south korea, you and has won the support of the largest buddhist order here. But his reception abroad has been mixed with him all. Hes just had a successful show in taiwan. He tells his host, but his subsequent visit to malaysia was criticized by some bodies that for being disrespectful. Still de jane eugenes name was the stop a full night at the annual festivities. And so the deductible does best day. Its month by an elaborate procession and display of lentils and floats with a difference. The meat. Yeah. The focus this time was trying to connect with young people. Uh, they had been reports that korea has the highest levels of stress along developed countries with young people, especially suffering from trauma and feeling hopeless about the future. So young people particularly struggling many of the events and attractions were aimed at spreading. Buddhism is appeal, especially among the young. Once per dominantly buddhist, the number of south korean faithful has been gradually declining over the years. With more, a more buddhist lead is not believing its time for him, a co identity society, so dominated by k paul electronic dance music using those thumping beats in the service of buddhism. The most people here excess of the cry delta 0. So all right, well thats it for me there in georgia, my colleague fully bossy, but it will be here with more news at the top of the hour and you can find more information on our website down to 0 dot com continues here on the 0 of the studio scripted states you, thanks for watching the if youre watching this pre recorded report that al jazeera has been banned in the territory, all is, well, well just change to be any stray me when my country is closing down inspection towards the networks only because what additions, thinking here this decision puts other networks where it came in the occupied was time for inside israel proffer also independent journalist would be targeted we, i thought just we shouldnt be aware of that as a badge of honor to be banned. My government that stands invited for genocide, National Court of justice. The what is happening today is happening on our watch. The news from now, they will be people asking, how did you let it happen . Yeah. When, where are you in the tragedy for me, of a democratic south africa is enough that were worse than anywhere else. Its how quickly we sort of adopted the very told re global norms of the intertwining of money and politics. The i thought, into photography. Because i wanted social change to me. Politics is not cynthia question ethical get sent about . Its a question of social movements and the lives of everyday people. Youre looking perfect in this system. My name is shane. Well, im not, im a southern journalist. Somebody minute the we have to ensure that as much unvarnished truth gets out into the world as possible. If that makes people resent us, so be it. When i tried to investigations, i was threatened with removal from problem. My name is andrew fine, steve. And im a south african right to campaign a politician. The 2100 resigned over the amc governments failure to investigate that for tom state. Event on to rights about will say on straight is really about change profits rather than uh, security. Since discovering the power of news show, he knows being relentlessly documenting human rights abuses for working conditions and class differences, all of which also got him into trouble with his own government. Show his love of photography. What was the rest of the sunday after appearing on . How does it right in criticizing the government for both of us, we want to hold the powerful, the comfortable. So what is the role of the story . How do we reclaim our own narrative, most to each of us do now to bring about social and political change. Join us on studio be, im the so 1st of all, just to say, its so wonderful to be in conversation with you. Id like us to start with or wherever things began for you. Obviously the bundle dish liberation, struggle in the variation level with central to the creation of the country. Tell us a little about way you were doing this to multi this time and how you came to realize the power of the media during the liberation will. Well, my niece this summer in the old is the she was born on the 24th of most 1951 the for the genocide. And my 1st reaction on the night of the 25th was to get them out. And then that night i remember watching. Now the skies were red, updates around it, one of the newspapers that is most critical of the regime at that time to focus on everything on a plane throws in. And we could hear the screens of the people as they came out, who would be gum. Yeah. So that was how it began. And from that period and on woods, the fact that we became independent was so special to all of us. We was so hungry for news if a news we couldve been smuggled in from somewhere there was a picture somewhere. But then much later while i was doing my ph. D in london, i got involved with the socialist work as body began to see how they used images in their activism. And its no, im for middle class. So mean you go into these sort of respectable professions, the lawyer, the doctor, the engineer, whatever. I thought does bundle they really need to get to another research chemist. I thought id found the tool and if i was good to fight imperialism if i was to get a challenge power, i was going to use the most powerful tools at my disposal. And thats when i decided to become a photographer, but im not married to the medium and they for tomorrow photography, caesars to function about have no problems picking up something else. You know, i dont do it very well, but ive seen a dog. So do whats nice about you, andrew . Uh, i mean obviously you, you advertise yourself as a proud left is true, but what brings you here . What was that social fabric that is shaped to im the son of a holocaust survivor. My mom survived the 2nd world war in occupied vienna. And when she came to south africa, my dad, the south african, she felt that black south africans were being treated much like the jews of europe had been treated. So she got involved in the anti a potted struggle through the wonderful Organization Called the black sash. And i grew up in that sort of media. But i think the other thing that is quite important is that my parents moved 29 times in the 32 years. They were together and liked south africans who didnt travel. I could find out about nelson mandela. I could find out about the amc, you know, it was illegal in south africa to have an image of monday left to learn some of his words. And when he would be somewhere else and then come back, i would just think to myself, this is insane. This is, you know, why did black people have to disappear us of the areas we live in at sunset. Why are elderly black men and women called boy and girl and treated as the, the subservient in some way. And i suppose that was really the roots of, of my politics and still to this day, i thinking phones. A lot of my politics are sort of a sense of full human beings being equal. And when you think back, you effectively started to document a movement for freedom and liberation. The all the aspects of your work that you think had the most impact. Having left an independent bangladesh, i came back to find bundle dish under an autocratic general. And i began to take pictures of that move that to try and bring the general down. What also happened was i began to smell the tig, some history, the rebellion or those are things that can view the general it of whats happening. But then there was a particular thing that began cold crossfire, extrajudicial colleagues, being done by the Rapid Action Battalion. And i wanted to tell the story, know, a, i dont think Rapid Action Battalion wouldve actually said, hey, by the way, be going to kill someone. Can you come and take some pictures . So that wasnt going to be easy, but also i didnt really think showing bodies was go to add to it. I had to find some other way to tell that story. So when we spoke to the family members, they talked of how the 1st response of the 1st memory they had because of torches be shown on the face as the Rapid Action Battalion come in. So i decided to leave the torchlight to light my images, right . So it was very conceptually, the sense of very allegorical. I think the government got scared, they decided they would close the show down. So the police came this around to that gallery. What happened about time was those images puppy showed had an impact that no other exhibit of mine before had ever done. Oh wow. And papers, a realization that they was the vocabulary itself was important in how the story to be told. But, you know, if one were to talk, shutter will investigations because ive been working a lot on corruption in the country and ive known to what you did off the policy and then a more recent book in terms of the small on trade. I see the parallels between countries high of 12 q there. So you know, i got involved in the struggle against the potty. My work briefly is a facilitator in the constitutional negotiations. The lead to the 1st democratic election in 1994 and i was elected that im, that was an extraordinary time. You know, when my data was around. And the fact that everything we did was sort of in the interests of National Unity and national reconciliation. But as soon as monday, lets step down his successor, im in the tragedy for me, of a democratic solve africa is not that were worse than anywhere else. Its how quickly we sort of adopted the very told re global knowns of politics and economics and the intertwining of money and politics. And i was the ranking amc member on the Main Financial Oversight Committee when my own policy and government decided to spend 10000000000 dollars on weapons which we had absolutely no need of. So i stood up against that. And, and becky, who was in the president basically told me, i had a choice. I could have a great political career for the rest of my life. But i had to end this investigation. Oh, i could try and continue the investigation that force me out of parliament. So i tried to continue the investigation and knew exactly when they were going to kick me out and i resigned the night before. But i want you to know more about what this global arms trade was, that its so corrected a young democracy. And thats what led for us to an Organization Called corruption watch. And then an Organization Called shadow world investigations which investigates the alms trade corruption and its impact on our politics and on the world. But tell us a little bit about your organization that you created. Well, 3 christ setup last week because of my realization of how the narrative is controlled. And what paola, the storyteller, has it started actually with the ethics most observation i was having a show in belfast, and im very fond of kids, and i was staying with in new re, uh, been friends, place, and green. Uh, the little daughter would jump into my arms retail each other stories a one day. She uh, she standing at the doorway rather than jumping up to my lap net just every up as whats the magic rena . Ive had clients in my pockets. Im just putting them on the table and she says, youve got money to this. Ive got money, but you from bangladesh. Oh, she comfortable, i could. Oh yeah, i could see how this image of the bangladesh, she was that of an icon of poverty. I sort of okay, you know, like do you have these photographers visiting . I know they fly and they have diarrhea for 2 days and they said no, but they create that image of what my country is. And if we were to change that, we need to, to be our own story, tell us a lot because what 3 was a platform for us story. Tell us that feels like an appropriate point to ask if there are any questions from the audience. So in light of the very different struggles for liberation in both to your respective countries, south african bangladesh. So what are the impacts of those on struggles on the political landscape, corruption authoritarianism, and whats the impact on the citizens . Well i, i mentioned the military general and we were finally able to get the general down and we had in election, if you had been elected government, thats when we came to the realization that having an election in itself does not lead to democracy. Certainly the process itself is also be narrowed it but the fact that the democratic presence actually requires far more than that. Um it requires active engagement. Office citizen 3 itself is something weve been now really recognized. And we also realize that while theres oldest rhetoric but democracy and freedom by international community, they would much rather have a plan dictated than some messy democracy. But i would like to come back to you on that because you know, i was the routine about it and power was similar today and see what led to the revolution and liberation. Yeah. But once they get the sense of entitlement once via that, now it is time for us to, to consume. This is out of, you know, you know, south africa are under a potty, was brutal. And the, a potted regime, spend almost offered 14 percent on the militarization policing, etc, etc. And what happened off the 1994 when we became a democracy, is that the brutality of the townships effectively was now across the country. And, you know, all levels of Violent Crime are extreme and we remain in some ways quite a militarized society. You know, you did flip the switch on and off the one election, you suddenly have a peaceful Democratic Society in which everybody lives happily together. Are there any more questions from anyone . So you alluded to a relationship between the media and politics and the economics am i would be interested to on your pass and experience these. We like work with each other, how these tenants of influenza. And then i would also be interested from your experiences also and social movements. What would you recommend to a social activists today so that we can win . Thank you. Do you want to give to the well, in terms of the media, it is said its a full of a state, suddenly placed in my country and i suspect elsewhere to main center media has abdicated. They have long since given up that trouble they, they money making machines. And in the interest of making money, they will make whatever decisions they need to make. They still keep on the veneer, but i mean, particularly today, i mean, im wearing this for a very specific reason. I think what the Mainstream Media particularly invest in countries is doing is shameful. The fact that they have so blatantly taken partisan positions is usually problematic, but it does talk about this next, this off, the powerful entities and the fact that media across the globe today is owned by the possible means its no longer represents the public as such. And as long since failed to do so, i agree with that entirely. I mean, i think that the commercialized media, which is how i refer to the main stream media, you know, awesome the Financial Institutions the own so much of the world. So the Defense Companies that i investigate and work on, they were owned by the same people pretty much when you look at the shared holdings and the inter relations of those. And you know, it, it sounds a little bit of glib, but there is a sort of an establishment narrative. We can have a democracy within this box. So long as we talk about the set of things, if you want to go outside that box and then unix stream is, then we dont want to hear your voice and we just ignore him. And of course were seeing it primarily around calls today. But were now seeing a situation where our politicians feel so out of touch with the people theyre supposed to represent about. And its really important issue of hundreds and hundreds of innocent people being slaughtered every day. And i think that this gap just feels so wide now and its reflected in the media landscape. And i think what we all seeing now is 2 things that have been happening. One is the sort of the rise of alternative media. And its the one thing that gives me a lot of hope to sort of quality of quite a lot of the attendance of media. I mean some of it is a roofing, but a lot of it is really impressive. Fact based, verifiable information and the other side is this real notion of citizen, jen, is a, you know, the fact that were seeing a genocide in real time on our screens is because of the coverage of people on the ground. And i honestly think that when we come to our senses, one of the impacts of this horrific tragedy is going to be a significant re alignment of how people get information, the news and who they do and dont trust. And how much was particularly so idle. If a pig just speaks a 1000 words, what is the impact of this new technology as a on, on photo john as a, as an industry, particularly in terms of conflict such as we every now . Well go back a long way, luis high and i think 19, im going to have this great statement saying while photo trusts may not lie, lawyers may take photographs. Today you have president s and generals and religious leaders who lives in that position. And i, i recognize what Digital Technology has done, what a i has done in terms of question, the perceived veracity of the photographic image. I actually think its very healthy because what it does is it takes the proof of the veracity and validity of the image away from the image itself and places it on the old. So if you believed or not, whether you believed or not depends upon we are track record on what youve done, whether you have the credibility on us because what its of the same and i think the same should happen with images. I think the danger is that we implicitly believe in the image. Now the fact that its being question i think is healthy. And so one of the things im particularly worried about is that we seem to repeat history again and again and again. So for example, since world war 2 and holocaust, weve seen, you know, 8 or so genocides in us trustees. And now whats going on in casa and were also seeing a rise and fall right extremism across the world amongst the population. What im worried about is that were going through the cycle where we say, we never forget a never again, but then we end up guessing and committing the same mistakes that we did last time. I want to ask, is it possible that we can have a break out of the cycle . And if so, how society can we do that . Firstly, id like to say that we dont actually learn from history. The history is an official narrative written by the theres a lovely african statement that goes until the lines find the story. Tell us story to about hunting below was glorified the hunter. Im up as the basis on which we set up 3. We wanted a platform for different story, tell us, and its a person who controls the narrative that determines what the story is. And i think we need to take over that narrative because they get away with it because there are officially subscribed histories would be a fed continuously. And i think that the entire process needs to be separated. I would just add to that that we then use those official histories, the histories of. Ready who write it to justify what we do to violate the very notion of never again. And for me, that moment was when these really ambassador to the United Nations will a yellow star of david like my mother, and how to wear in occupied vienna when he justified israel slaughter of innocent palestinians. You know, that is not to ignore the fact that many israelis died on the 7th of october. And as human beings, we should always will weigh more than a week, but the death of any of the human b. That is what to be human is in my opinion, but to suggest that the flow for of 6000000 people, jewish and 6000000 other people who are not jewish in any way justify what the state of israel is doing to people in gaza showed me how little of the actual lessons of history we learn, because for me, so many defendants have survive, isnt survivors themselves. The lessons to take from a jewish history of suffering is how to avoid the suffering, not just of jews, but of anybody. And how it is only when we have justice throughout the world, when there is great to re quality, threw out the will that were all going to actually feel safer. So i think shy, do is a 100 percent, right . We have to be very aware of who writes history and how history is used. And only then might we be able to learn something from it. I mean, i didnt know how you feel, but just from the questions you get a sense that were all grappling. What is happening to our will, what is happening that, that these heart is, can take place that we are enabling and facilitating . Well, i would like to reflect on the fact that what is happening today is happening on our watch. The news from now they will be people asking, how did you let it happen . Yeah, well, you know, i think each one of us needs to reflect upon that and insist that me cannot be complicit in this process. The we sort of seem to be living in a moment, but often i think to myself, hang on the races are actually describing the lifelong anti racist as racist which is insane. All these countries that talk about democracy have thrown it out of the window. None of you who im sure, protested in the streets, have been supported by your own government to call themselves democratic the if youre watching this prerecorded report then al jazeera has been banned in the territory, all is, well, well just stream to be any stray me. When my country is closing down inspection towards the networks only because what additions thinking here. This decision puts other networks where it came in the occupied was time for inside israel proffer also independent journalist would be targeted we, i thought just we shouldnt be aware of that as a badge of honor to be banned my government expense invited for genocide at the interNational Court of justice, the in the center, i bet is due to the close to half a 1000000 palestinians displaced as these really ami continues its assault on rasa. Weigh more than half of the guys population has been sheltering. The funding back to boy, youre watching l. G 0 live from till also coming up. The u. S. Looks to approve a new 1000000000. 00 package of weapons for israel despite dividing administrations concerns about the killing of promising and civilians