Hello and welcome to the program. Im how much im sure hunger around the world has reached alarming levels. Thats according to a new report on global food and security for the 5th year. Acute food and security has increased impacting hundreds of millions of people. And its posing a major challenge to the United Nations goal of ending hunger by 2030. The agencies that monitor food and security say not only Climate Change, but the rapid spread of conflict is causing widespread hunger. A multi Agency Report shows that last year, nearly 282000000 peoples lives were in danger because they didnt have enough to eat. 700000 people were on the brink of famine. Almost all of them in gaza districts entire population is classified as food and secure, meaning they regularly dont have enough to eat. In the democratic republic of congo has the most food insecure people. Nearly 26000000 in sedan year of conflict has left more than 20000000, facing a hungry crisis. And a surgeon game violence in haiti has left half the population without enough to eat. The director of the food and agriculture Organizations Office of emergencies and resilience. So its people often face a combination of challenges, making it more difficult to recover from extreme weather events or violence. The single most significant driver of acute Food Insecurity is conflict environments. And this was the primary driver in 20 of the 59 countries and represented in, in absolute terms, the key driver for the largest number of people in acute Food Insecurity. Phlegmatic events was the 2nd most significant driver and economic shocks was the 3rd most important driver. And again, here i think its important not to view these 3 drivers in isolation. What we see is that often, typically these 3 have been mutually reinforcing together, accessible to the acute prevents security situation. The so what are the deeper implications of the reports findings . Its a good question for our guests. In johannesburg, alex of all is the author of mass starvation, the history and future of famine. Hes also the executive director of the World Peace Foundation at Tufts University in boston in the us. In the car, mom i do going to is a member of the International Panel of experts on sustainable fluid systems, a Global Think Tank that provides policy recommendations and advocates for sustainable and equitable food systems worldwide. And then qual, im for dr. Jemila, my mood is executive director of the sun waist center for Planetary Health at sun way university. Shes worked at the interface of Public HealthClimate Change and mandatory and isnt with the International Red cross and the u. N. A warm welcome to you all. And thanks so much for joining us today on inside story jamila. Let me start with you today. This global report on food crises says food and security around the world has worse and for the 5th consecutive year. For those attempting to end hunger around the world. How enormous has the challenge become . Thank you very much. I think that, you know, the, the figures are alarming 5 years in a row and were talking now about 208 to 1600000 people facing very severe a high level. So for of acute food crisis is something that the anti will should wake up to and be very, very alarm the numbers are not likely to fall drastically. And were seeing now, you know, as a compounding the compounding may is of prices that are leading to this situation right now alex, you just heard jamila mentioned. Now one of the numbers cited in that report which is the nearly 282000000 peoples lives are in danger because they dont have enough to eat. Now you wrote a piece recently with this headline. It says, i said the era of famines might be ending, i was wrong. So what did you elaborate upon in that piece and why do you think you were wrong . So until about 6 or 7 years ago, there was a year on the decrease in 2 things. One is the level call chronic melanie nutrition and hunger worldwide. So the feed prospect was real, that 0 hunger could be achieved within our lifetimes. And the other thing was that farm, instead of terrible outbreaks, all shoot to starvation in which large numbers of people parish that was said beating oh, but abolished and very tragic the weve seen those made to come by and the reason why simon. So making a come back is entirely political. Its all to do with the use of starvation as a weapon of war. Mama do um, how much of a crisis our food systems around the world facing right now and how much have changes to global food systems and recent decades contributed to all of this a show. So i think the should go down. Yeah, be just a repeating again. Very worrying and he said with a cold, and i will call him, but if you will be the same for a long time, that this isnt very turn brand. And uh, we quoted production thatd be, ive been rolling for a long time. I was not being really hurt and because you can look up for the last 15 years, food crises, see many pricing and desktop insight into the plumbing, it plumbing discussions not to be having for a long time. So we have the foot brushes we oldest because the questions that we have been facing, we called the, the corporate 19 crises and the wall between you created and, and the russia thats, id be also exacerbating into what we are facing actually. So we have the, the, whoops for the last 10 years of the decayed, awful foot is a critique is due to test, thats such a nominal fee to be sure that really need to address and is a political issue. I thought the said by, by previous we get seen that is important to courtney sure. Because if you look at the trends and what was green was actually there is a room for even the granting clinician for for security. And there was jimmy lice, saw you nodding along to some of what mama do was saying there. It looked like you wanted to jump in and add to the point he was making. So please go ahead. Absolutely, i think, you know, remember this point on being a political issue. We know that the, the Current Situation of a foot in security is also, you know, conflict in many cases is a really a proxy fog comment related Food Security challenges, especially in the saw how a somalia and of course increases. Right guys are, i think that, you know, the people that are displaced here and, and by the time of crisis and then compound it, as i mentioned before by a conflict, its just going to make things much worse. And what was said by alex earlier that were talking about from in, in a we would never imagine in this day and age we would still be talking about people literally on the brink of starvation. Uh and you know, without any political will to allow food to get to them. Now were not short of food globally. We have enough to feed everyone. But the barriers main. The political jimmy, let me ask you. I also ask you about the fact that within this report, obviously a conflict is cited as one of the main drivers when it comes to food and security right now. But i also want to touch more specifically upon the Climate Change and ask you how much Climate Change has been responsible for pushing level hunger to these alarming levels the permit change. Uh it i, i look at the 3 sees conflict, climate and the 3rd one is cash, right . Basically the cost cost of living, anything related to whether its Household Debt or national debt. So these things play, you know, a major role and the interact with the shop where time of change, we know that were not going to be living with 1. 5. The target now is going to be like, need to reach 2. 00. Now we know with 2 degrees, the compounding impact of 2 degrees centigrade is going to be devastating on foot systems. And unfortunately, its those countries that are facing conflicts, but also facing climate, the climate crisis. And particularly when were talking about a sub Saharan Africa decide how and so forth. So i think, you know, it is just going to get worse until we actually do something about it. And as i mentioned earlier, is not a shortage of food or a shortage of money globally. How do we now, you know, compensate and help countries that are facing Climate Change and serious implications for security to get caught odette shortly. These countries which are normally the ones who contribute so little to Global Warming and carbon emissions, they need to be compensated in some way and supports it. So alex, i saw you are reacting to what the jamaila was saying that i want to pick up on the point that she was making when it comes to. How do you ensure that these country is the need, the aid, the most actually get it . And, and also obviously we know that the emergency is getting worse when it comes to boot and security. This is no surprise. Weve known this for quite some time, but where do things stand when it comes to fundraising, to address these crises and are these a budgets that are being given by donor countries . Enough . And i think we need to distinguish between 2 very important things that can to say, but are actually quite different. One is the structural crisis is all food production, farming systems and the general access to food by populations in most countries. And jimmy that has, has described that predicament extremely well. Im not the 2 moms and the numerous and financial and political process. So they dont need to provide funds but to provide for the full reform of the Global Economic system. The other thing which is isaac, whether its shaw and which is something that is, is, is the most of the sensitivity to talk about is the way we see actual time. And its not just because things are getting worse. Its but its because there is a decision deliberately to go with his breakfast, disregard for human life to wage war in such a way that people stop. And this is absolutely no reason why children shouldnt be starving garza, apart from the political military decision. All of his read similarly in the field. We have seen something similar on folder in the country, but it is quite capable of feeding it so on yet the, the old thirtys have decided but stopped by some will be that weapon. And again, something similar in syria, in students, and that is the most sensitive a difficult thing to address in the International Political are reading out because frankly, different class calling count lee jasmine for making simon for a man made simon, which ended in mind. You is a crime, its alex. Let me just follow up with you on one of the points you were making. I mean, one of the things that cited in this report is that 700000 people and 5 countries or territories were on the brink of famine. Last year, almost all of them in gaza, you were talking about a guy that just a moment ago. The strips entire population of 2300000 is classified as food and secure, meaning they regularly dont have enough to eat. How much of a moral failure is that . Well, 1st of all, i have to say those figures to copying some companies succeeded day by day. The, its the nature of a report such as this so that it goes up and the report take some while to get be processed and published and, and the outdated in, in a couple of respects. First of all, we have never in the last 75 years seen such a rapid increase in rates of severe acute mounted nutrition and people facing certainly as we have, as we are seeing today in gauze at so the number is it going not every day. The numbers in the report for saddam whole so essentially out of date, the numbers were going to see very may just stop action unfolding and sit on and possibly possibly in pos of, of, of easier to even while International Aid budgets being cops, the wells pre program which may not be the kind of deals system for responding to these imagine cities, but its becoming the one that we have has had till now in many places. So 2 percent of it stops. So just kind of to hook the time when these needs a going up, the political will to stop the stop asian seems to be to that pricing. And the money to feed to the stopping seems to be draining away as well. Mama do, from your perspective, what should be most worrying to the Global Public right now. And also i want to ask you, is the International Community as concerned as it should be . Is it is faced with this increasingly dire situation and yeah, into most notice of the many things that people i think the eclipse in the meantime is definitely how ill talk to me to set these is come up is collecting comics in the law. Does the subbing measurement guys, items who dog do you have a category property called or and thats why he decided competence all the time that are these questions. A virus got a good company. The, the additional supplies that we have going on, you know, and might not be in a web and all that. But this is what we are fishing actually. So there is a kind of, uh, just just picked up. Uh, you one right. Uh, we do a nation hoping International Goals and let you to visa, we put in as a single for of, for, for a while, for food supplies. And nobody is just, you know, trying to get other people what shes telling me. I probably could have been unable to show us and disrupt some that we can see actually. So if we want to talk about some new shows, no, weve been the 1st thing is just to look up what international uh, the estimate of just trying to put it up there to put the light to be really restricted and then getting conditions for basically so its been said, its not the software. So for 1st, its not the fact that the people who are not even, even if there is so some of the structural issues that have been thatd be much money. So there is no actually 2. 00 to 2. 00 big gaps that exist in the end of this one, calculating as i know, so actually taking place. So when we talk about solution, i think there is a need for new the sub for addressing hung up. We have a being said that the phone, yes, that there is a need for newly. So itd be sort of relying on the, on the market to feed before we need to some of these guys to, to put the 200. 00 foot for this or the people. This is very important. And if you look at the funding of trinity is not something that is being taught, weve also a mid mod done us and lizzy them for the system to benefit with uh, we send the trucks because we just mean that the, you know, my system that yall is going to be, so basically i just or disrupting to some extent by about so somewhere be sure that, that created, you know, by knew and actions in the one we have. And also we need some relief for this kind of thing. So the reason why they didnt know the these conditional fund, it got to be off the we didnt know from the see how to do. Come on. I know im sorry to hear that. Im sorry to interrupt you, but let me let me go to jamila. Cuz i see her reacting to some of what youre saying, it looks like she wants to add to the point you were making. Go ahead jemila. No mamma do points to, you know, the issue around Global Governance and it, we know that its the situation. If i take the situation guys, which is acute malnutrition is simply a barbaric and you know youre talking about 1100000 people displaced with nowhere to go and have no choice. They couldnt even leave to find food. And then you know about the culture of the population of guys are now facing a contrast with me. Im in the face 5 mount nutrition, and thats the worst phase. And yet we have instruments. We have the run scrooge accounts. So we have geneva conventions. We have the rights in the office and the convention drug, just a protection of civilians in situations where we have, you know, article 5455, the need to protect Health Facilities and to provide people fluid and not allowed to, to stop yet yet. There is no political will to allow people who are starving to be fed when food is waiting at the doorstep. Now tell me, what are we going to do about this . This is going to create a trigger, a series of cascading events, and go around the world. And were talking about Human Security in gaza, which is going to affect Human Security globally. Alex, i want to pick up on what jamilla was just saying there she was talking about the issue of, of security and how it impacts the world when it comes to these issues. You wrote recently also when a hungry combines with war the, that, and for techs of instability spends faster, hunger on a scale that were witnessing. I mean, this can really be a severe, that threat to global security, right . Or are you fine completely agree . I mean, one of the that the written history is that true, right . Of the 20th century is the degree to which, from the crises and fear of food crises. Well, absolutely pivotal in driving the key was the time, including world war 2. I mean, one of the lessons that was done by the germans off to well below one when they felt that they had been stopped into surrender, was that they needed to secure what was necessary to sustain the population from you. And in what on the Eastern Front of a loan spot was called the hung up plan because it did take would stop the populations of Eastern Europe and the soviet union in order for them to acquire the food and the americans in the last phase of the war launched what they explicitly called operation. Starvation contains the japanese main, the siege. And this seems to have been for all the way in which was an hon and hung us chain together in this terrible spiral. And i think as a time when the cries, we must have never again for genocide, we must also remember we must have never a game for my stuff. I should call them that scale. The 2 are linked momma. Do. Youve spoken about how fluid systems are in need of transformation. How much would things be improved if there were enough investment in say, agriculture or local farming initiatives of the company searched to use some of the structural issues that you have been talking about. Share these uh uh, the issue of the investment in that youve got trusts. You go to the mike where might do the job position in the case of the cost of producing these off some of the following system. Because if you look at the trends, obviously the testing would show them what, oh, so what is the percentage over for that useful life . Even in these, most of these companies are provided by some of the following system. So the investment should go in, not only access to some of the, uh, some of the fact of the production summarizing the lend issue in some cases. But also the access machines sort of the pharmacy system. A link to the perspective that to be up actually is the solution that we often have between multiple only due to allows people to see them making picking it up, especially features of different countries, different johnson different, but the more also committing condition. So whats got been appealing for a long time in the just we want to predict some of the event thats coming slot, a sort of was a desktop to, to advise trust. And secondly, that can be then, you know, as we have in west africa for us and for those to be also invested just not 22 people for one day on the, on the continent, but also inclination accessing to lead in the market. That is not distorted. Because the international, hes not providing for people and the to the drug Market Stores what the most demo for a long time. Just to maybe just think of damaging the protocol system for, for consumption system and the strong and generate some way uh, that sort of market. So we need to judge, you know, all these uh steps from the bottom of, uh, looking at the forces of how strongly that should be as a commodity for the community. But for the us that you want to ride the thing document or something because you there you need to get you on the way in terms of diversity but those in terms of company month, how did you put you in the front . Didnt so hes jamila mama was just talking about food as a human right. I want to talk about another aspect to all this and ask you from your perspective, how big of a problem right now is food waste in the world. And how can that be address properly . And im really glad you asked me this because that here she is the paradox. On one hand, you have people starving and people not to have access to food. On the other hand, we have a serious food waste problem. Were talking about 3840 percent of food in developed countries actually being wasted in the us. And on this estimate that you can see 10480000000000 meals and the yeah, this is how much and its not just about food thats wasted. Its also about its sitting and then feels and producing greenhouse gases. So again, you know, you have the situation of waste, which is also going to impact time of change in Global Warming. So, you know, how do we reconcile . That is, how do we make sure that we look at consumption in a way that is equitable as well . So it boils down again to looking at equity and friend this and, and how do we support those countries which are the lowest inventors facing the greatest challenges . Most of those who have so much and, and hold the wealth of the world. How do you find the balance now, how do we find that compensate tree mechanism . Which is all about, you know, equity in social justice. The other point that perhaps is sometimes not talked about enough is not just about the equity in terms of access to fluid, but also nutrition in those countries that have chronic intermedia on your uh, problems with, um, uh, you know, food, food crises, youre also talking about nutritional crises, so in the end that has a long term impact, particularly, and those are most vulnerable young people and in childrens it because theyll be a cognitive impact and so on and so forth. So ultimately, as these are above people and they are usually the ones who are women who are children who are probably disabled, i have no access to food markets and i didnt, you know, age me just create this serious conditions for people who should have every right to food me alex here jamila, theyre talking about the fact that, you know, people need to have the right to access food, said the equity is needed. Social justice is needed, you know, in order to find that balance so that the countries and the most get the kinds of help that, that they need so that their populations can be fed. I mean, what do you think, how, how does the world started going about this in a more equitable way in a way that solutions can actually be found . I think give me the salute to some of the top. Perfect. And if im a parent, theres one additional element tibbs, which is the, the way in which i could culture. And the food system has become industrial boxed and is being run by john and greg corporations to squeeze. Every possible piece of profit is not having the environment until the disastrous cutting down, right, and far as destroying the environment and creating generation greenhouse gases. But hes also producing food that is not the tricia and is causing an epidemic of obesity, which is another nutritional crisis. And its on right on of these people, a little bit not reached on thunder. Nourished at the same time. And that is not just in developed countries, there in south africa where i am at the moment. Its a country that moved from a crisis. So under nutrition to a crisis of obesity without going through this. So the 11. 00 would hope would be the healthy stage in between. And i think theres points to the way in which the entire global food system is so dysfunctional. Its producing too much and its not producing what we need. It means desperate for the result. Momma do we only have a couple of minutes left. Um i can see you reacting to what alex was saying there. So ill give you a chance to jump in, but i also just want to ask you simply, do you believe from your perspective . Does the political will power exist right now to try and actually put an end dog . I think we dont have any choice again because if you look up things that i actually did, he said a lot of things being done in uh some parts of the world actually just to try to change the, the shoes of movement up pushing or so government to change their policies, we look at west africa, the blinking vehicle was for those things to just to push the Motor Company into one in front of the curriculum at the transition shot to g or even policies in these countries is something about to do a good progress, i see im saying that we need to do secure conditions and then using the source on a scale, a desktop import. And also ive been giving these a visa using the mission for the organizing the my system with all the lucky and important things. Uh uh, more about what that being said is really, really important to me just the conditions for these uh uh, movement that the created law. But im seasonal. Visual damage is really important. Look us up soon and downstream. And then just to say about to say a whole, if that is a destruction of the products on the side of the talk to be said, because with the eating is all about the quantity you can find in the its nothing else to come up with. What is producing now, but what people are eating is completely disturbing or not. They have issues in the, in the, in the wall. So there is a need to do with the, im sorry for the enter, the need to be to link them data. Im sorry to interrupt you, but we are out of time, so were gonna have to leave the conversation there. Thanks so much to all of our guests. Alex, dival, mama do going to and jimmy let my mood the and thank you to for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting our website up 0 dot com. And for further discussion, go to our facebook page. Thats facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. You can also do one of the conversation on x. R handle is as a j inside story. For me, how much improvement holding here, bye for now the devastation bundle. Dish is usually in the top 5 countries as the most valuable country in the world displacement. If you look at tucker city, its unbelievable desperation. Theyre leaving on a free range of life and did the stock reality of Climate Change and a rapid leasing king country. You have the problem to be the rest of the work and the have it tomorrow, and they will have to learn from us, which is here is new series dying of life before land. During this fact, the more fossil fuels we burn the hot or the planet reporting from the action age work. Heres where it directly targeted. Ill just say it was teens across the world. Bring you closer to the heart of the story. 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