The United Nation says the volumes for 300000. 00 people to leave their homes this year. While the foreign minister has, like the situation in a to a was a to help restore order, the un has proposed sending a multiNational Force. So whats led to this crisis and these international intervention, the way to resolve it, well discuss. So one of that without guests in a few minutes, but 1st this, from me, comes to the chevy as a country in chaos. Have leon gang, swipe seize control of haitis main at fort on monday, exchanging files with police and solutions. The attack is the latest and then explosion of violence thats included the escape of several 1000 inlets from the countries to biggest presence, leaving some co, few in emergency measures on place with the funding is escalating. Its forcing businesses and schools to close and hundreds of people to flee for safety. Since the day i left my house, ive lived like an animal because in the space with sleep, even animals dont sleep. With crammed together, the gang sled by jimmy chevy to a former Police Officer known as barbecue are trying to over to the government, Prime Minister of your andre traveled overseas, trying to get support for the un back Security Force. But the address was sent in his absence. The situation is getting worse, the National Police can do nothing, a guess on guns. Only a military force can help us in this situation. In 2019 and increase and few prizes left to protest and escalated into a long drawn out crisis involving job losses, vices, and the cost of living and full shortages. More than half of the countries, 11000000 citizens living under for over 2 line will affected 2 years later the assassination of preston jovan enemies, the 2 low listeners, thats continue to listen. Nearly 5000 people have been killed in the balance in one year and on groups now control about 80 percent of the captain according to the United Nations. And its calling for funding to tackle the situation and for elections to be held in haiti. The secretary jo reiterates the need for urgent action, particularly in providing Financial Support for the non, for the multi Multi NationalSecurity Support Mission to address the pressing security requirements of the haitian people and prevent the country from plunging further into chaos. The rest in haiti is warming neighboring states. The Dominican Republic has refused to open for few to cabs for people sing. Katie. The u. S. Has also american citizens to leave quickly. But for those left in the country, theres no escape from the reality of what the un describes as catastrophic levels of hunger and silence that are only getting less. Because im sure if ill just single find side story the well, before we go to a panel of experts, thats here from about subaru of the republic of haiti to the states of cutoff from spot deal, who joins us from the very good to have you with us, ambassador, your country sir, is in the grip of anarchy of gang led rule. One of its worst crises, certainly in the modern era. Did you ever imagine things could get this bad . Well, no, thank you mister all for the patient. I got my english and ill also nice to 1st and foremost is that might be based on the lenses and the families are falling rain with this weight loss and security for children. Im the father of encourages all these offices that go on there every day. They use their lives, trying to squeeze at the same time. At small falls on holidays. We cant forget that we have something hes off as soon as not. Im going to be received by him. I should be back. Does it show the, assigning it to say that what is happening right now is not all the the reason being is one of the better part of the last 20 years and government and the National Police force have been writing the International Community on the risk time say we unfortunately have a police force that has not part of the capacity space. You spent wait on getting walks. It doesnt mean dont have a technical capacity. In terms of numbers, we are out numbers and we are going on. Fortunately, whats happening today is not all that surprising. Its actually when you have games that are coordinating your efforts, were seeing all the capacity of the point is for us as part of we spend and taking advantage of some weak, which is a crime is fine. However, there is a solution, the National Police force a solution to be able to call to a resolution of this and secure. And before i send past me and has been for the past 2 years, in terms of what weve seen, our credit for the least was the establishment of a collaboration between the National Forests and the mall by national support. That was. And so you believe that an International Security force is the onset or part of the answer . It is definitely part of the answer and its funny part of the games. There are many, there are many other fives of these security from the fact that we have young men and women about our funding rates and getting active it is because out and thats happening left to know all the alternatives in that route. So in, in apparently with security matters, how the scene in an area where it has to be invested in each state is we need to invest more demanding and twitching the stick about investment. What is one of the country, one of those lands the most of itself . Oh, is economy, you kind of make the buying house up . Think im best of the Prime Minister ariel henri is out of the country. He went to kenya to try and resolve the block in getting these Security Forces into haiti. Where is the Prime Minister at this moment . And when is he planning to make his route to this information hasnt been destroyed yet in terms of what you see definitely that came out, i believe, and she went to the Prime Minister. She wouldnt mean 18 days ago. The Current Situation in a few probably has presented logistical issues for her not being able to be there. However, i do not have her latest information. What was worry about. But that does not this part of the fact that he believe that and his role and hes, hes pretty strong in front of bench. I know im positive, francois gale on monday. Thanks for your time. And for joining us. Well, lets bring in a panel of experts now from bordeaux in france, when the cherokee is with the Defense Intelligence company. James, he was with the Un Peacekeeping force in haiti in 2014, in new york. Round up fell by brown, his director of the initiative on non state actors for the brookings institution. And finally, we have ralph emmanuel, francois haitian social entrepreneur and activist. Were not revealing his location for security reasons. Welcome to all of you ralph. Let me ask you, 1st of all, what is it like for ordinary haitians now, living in the grip of gang led anarchy . All economic catastrophe jump listeners, hung the sexual exploitation, the atrocities committed on the streets. This is a very satisfied situation for the country now, and it is hard to imagine and the level of the motions that we have. We now fear and sadness the past and may as take man its, its really hard to imagine. Its uncertainty is, you know, youre not able to put jet fuel life and to say that, okay, in 24 hours, that will be in this location 24 hours. Ill be there, ill be there. And you know, every, to every day that you have a Family Member coming back from the streets and slides are party and its, its really difficult, you know, project life in such a chaos. So you put the spice of insecurity and uncertainty. Very upset. Yeah. Yeah. It is very hard in them, i believe the, the, some communities all held hostage and the you know, and the o d, u, as in what happens in terms of response from the government. So they, they can curse you measures and everything, but they have not been able, you know, to communicate appropriate b, m, and times the price is the lease that we see at the lease that we should expect from our valuable leaders used to hide, you know, from the window is not in the taking responsibility. At least we have been waiting for a communication like face to face, where i would find me these are, should be, you know, and place in front of the tv and telling people what they are. Planes are, you know, for the next 24 hours for the next 7 to 2 hours and how they gonna deal with this situation. Okay. Well, the nfl but right. A, a picture of political failure, social dysfunction and of course ruled by games that with your special speciality in non state actors. In other words and groups like gangs and with, with a specific focus, i know, on haitian gangs tell us how did they become so powerful, essentially defeating the mechanisms of state as well for decades. I hate to have type of a rule that study exclusionary but its a so 3rd on of bringing economic and political benefits through a very narrow class of people. While the director of the population has been essentially left to fend for itself and for decades. Also, businessman and politicians and paid the alternate, the highest level had been using gas for the Economy Service is to intimidate and course the arrivals. Overtime, however, the gangs of sleep 30 ish and they have become far more powerful, far more organized and far more ambitious. Actually this stems from the access to heavier weapons. But boston, this is the socialization, the learning they have to becketts interacting with the point of the people system that has been using them for their purposes. And this is now they do place on a context where he has not had the legitimate government for, for 3 years, but it has been a moisture was assassinated. And since then, oh oh, i missed the audit. Im re, has this in the office of the Prime Minister. He was never on like state that it was all along significant political opposition to his rules. He promised that by february 2024, he would hold the elections that it was not done for many reasons, including a visual sector in this situation. And so we dont know the context of a government that this week when Police Forces are made besides them collapse, but a gangs of long use their power to interact in colors, the political system. And now im more than more ambitious and better conditions for organizations are absolutely college, essentially collusion with politics and politicians produced amongst the monster escaped the cage ones at the terrace, the you, you have experience of african forces, the makeup of expertise. You also have experience on the ground and hate to with the most of the Un Peacekeeping force in 2014, i want to ask you, is it appropriate to be drawing a Security Force from african countries to be brought to 80 . Shouldnt it be people closer to hand with a better knowledge of the situation in the country, perhaps latham countries or the kind of being or the United States even. And so the african countries are being involved in the new style. Theyve provided some police contingents. They speak french and there you just some cultural connection with the a patient people. So involvement, the fabric and forces would likely have some positive elements. The problem, as you mentioned, is that they do not have experience on the ground, the type of operations that would be, need to conduct info to process with mostly the urban operations. Uh for which uh, for example, the kenya police as no major experience. Uh, like in american countries, were significantly involved in the new status of a lot of experiencing h e. They know the lay of the land. They would definitely be a better option probably on the account into their experience. The problem is that not many of them are eager to join to dates among the countries that have committed themselves to the possibility of joining the force. I remember of caribbean countries including jamaica got ya know, behind us believes actually jamaica has a lot of experiencing the urban operations in the kind of setting that uh uh, that could be both a price parking. Uh, guys in uh, kingston and uh with probably, uh, the very well suited to operations and the, the, the problem is uh, the comp to meet large number of personnel. Okay. Well, ford way, with all of that in mind, i mean, do you think youll country would welcome an International Security force now, particularly given the legacy of mental stuff that ended in 2017, that was sexual exploitation. Allegations made against those un peacekeepers. A cholera epidemic that killed 10000 people that came out of the account. Um, obviously we need the use of force. We need to use a force. But i believe i strongly believe we thought the political strategy, the use stuff, ours will not be effective. And it showed that in the past, for example, in to talk with david for the epi center of the complex situation in terms of gang violence. Was this the legs this way, is a slum on the court, outsource of photo plants of 200000 people at this time. And we had around 10000. 00 soldiers there. And actually we are in 2024 we used later. And we dont the only one every center of the finance for now. Yeah, more happy centers. So it also the situation is much more complex for many reasons. One of the reasons is in 2004, the games was, were more or less for economists. Now they have mostly total punch full of our maritime, you know, start conference them to come see maritime. So this is much more complex and deal localized in some parts of what it is we mean which, which means that of course, that will be both on the ground, but we need a fully low strategy is because we should anticipate serial casualties. So most people guys, you know, is a baby also wrapped in humanity and response roughly its, let me bring the car. Let me bring vanda in on that. I mean, is there a risk thats ending 5000 troops from africa into a t under the circumstances . Is that the best a very, very temporary solution without a wider plan as well . Absolutely. Is this a temporary solution that i think that everyone understands that the emphasis is managed to provide a secular, at the end of our minds to bo, enabled the political process to move forward. Certainly at least one election so that there is some legitimate elected body in haiti, but also to enable the reconstruction of the Haitian Police force, which nominal is somewhere around 9000. 00 men in practice. Its 3000, not a patient or any day. Thats a pet, thats probably a high number of non the less that are many challenges for uh, the emphasis of some of which has to do with the number of personal eligibles already mentioned. Its not inevitable that the actually has 5000 forces. What kind of rules of engagement is they will have . Will they take an offensive 5 toward the gangs . Will they be in a static position . Simply perhaps protecting domains at all between the board and the porch terminal to a central type of for the past. Very many questions, a massive amount of, im certainty in what it is, no doubt going to be a very complex mission lasting for a very long time. What a minimum, it will last very long time to some of you, the gags, to a level of security. And it doesnt, simplex was the moment the troops leave and, and not have been not even mission. I mean, were talking about the violence mission, essentially. Uh, why dont i want to bring you in on this . I mean, in africa, youll be perfectly well aware abundantly. So im sure the activities of groups like wagner and i wonder whether in the absence of the, the willingness or ability of countries to actually properly police the situation in haiti. Whether you can see, or for, see the possibility that the russians get involved here on a different basis on a different level. Uh uh, i dont see, the russian says deploying wagner or any kind of direct uh, uh, presence in haiti, it would be quite complex. Uh, and it would not necessarily advance their uh, themes significantly, however, using uh, internet media can think this information contains that theyve done so up to you nafrica over the past couple years. They could definitely so further dissension, creating a and even more significant. Do many, terry, in crises on the doorstep of the United States and as distracting the attention of the United States in terms of its security commitments and potentially military commitments away from a europe away from china, away from the, from guys bundle. I want to ask you, you talk about a political framework and, and, and so, and i mean, if we assume that the gangs of so infiltrated into haitian societies, is that there is such a degree of collusion between the gangs and politics. Do we have to assume that the political future of haiti, at least the foreseeable one, will have to on some basis include those gangs . Possibly the Political Leadership will come from the gangs. And i want to, for instance, who was jimmy barbecue series. Yeah. You see a man who could be negotiated with is he a man who could rise to Political Leadership . And so they are a normal contract versus a in haiti about the questions are asking very large number of people have suffered terribly and they hated the idea of any kind of negotiations with the guess of indemnity this. Of course, hey dee has a that keeps lock tradition of such negotiations, taking place that has a simply resulted in power into the games. So one can negotiate in ways that, that, that reduce the damage or arguments the damage. I mean, certainly the nature of the negotiation develop very much depends on how powerful the emphasis is and what kind of security effect it manages to generate on the ground. If the, if the National Force is very weak, accomplishes perhaps only holding sold to the inflow structures and the gangs continue to arrest or depressed that any kind of negotiations with the weekend. The gang wouldnt bell i asked for a political power of barbecued commissioners. Yeah. Is a former Police Officer, he certainly has been, but he pointed to quit acting east, perhaps the most politically openly, politically active of the game because he, theres other game getting this sort of politicians be faxed from their political alliances jersey as himself, personally politically ambitious. And the latest um, several days, the wireless we have had shared his yes saying that hes again trying to bring down the government to find is that already . Uh, ralph was shaking his head and outcome to that. Okay. Going ro . Id like to put a word there. Yeah. Go and barbecue is the use of cleaning, you know, is a cleaning. Oh, i know is, is very intelligent and hes been pushing for, you know, communication and to present himself to have like a, a poster. As a leader, but hes a criminal, and the biggest, the biggest mistake that we should avoid is to validate the gang members as negotiation factors, criminals. And thats the reason im saying that, of course we need to use a horse, but we thought, well, were to go strategy. Were precise, intelligent political strategy that addresses 1st by the essentials of these 2nd map galion planning to address a 5 over of on 5 moving people for food and security. And last a clear path to election, credible action. Ok, proposals is actually very important. Give us most of this moment. No, im going to those issue members, not legal issues. Youre probably going to bounce back to you in a 2nd. Im going to bounce back to you in a 2nd for the final sort ralph on this, but i just want to bring vendor in. What about 5 minutes to real, only hes about to make a reappearance. We think in haiti any day now, how will he be received . He will be at presumably great risk, and does he have anything politically to think to offer, given that hes essentially discredited in mistrusted so far . Uh, i mean is there. Um, it is no been billings and stuff down a lot of the political efforts in hate to have some 3rd on the negotiations with him such as through the opposition groups around what used to be the one time at the college and all of Civil Society and that is part of the good part is the Political Part is he still remains a very important act that even in the simplest of being down, of course it is. But just to step down right now, that is a significant challenge of who will emerge as the either be down elections, which kind of beheld on the kind of the circumstances. So i feel he left for k. Yeah. Continued saying he would stay in office and the elections would be held in about a year this time. Yet its as role saying earlier, i mean, there is a sense of increasing by the day, by the hour as a result of the latest violence that even his own authority has radically gloss safe. Go away, ralph. I want to bring you in for a final thoughts here and, and, and bring us back down to a Community Level in how you see in hate to the people of haiti. You spoke about the way they live in such fearful and uncertain conditions at brutality. Also the creeping into society with the rule of the gangs and in, in the way that people relate to one another within communities and within society. How long this will you will country and its communities and its people, serv, i survive and recover from all of this as they will. And we will be a very up to mistake. And if you look at our history, weve had so many hurdles. And so many times, of course, the other many people that ive lost, the Family Members do use as a complex situations. But as long as they believe that we could get back when we say, hey, this is a useful couch. We um, almost out of the population is under 18 years old. So whatever you have in youngsters you have hold. And uh, i understand also those uh generational conflicts. And i understand that something can be easy as far hills hostage. But we must come back and we should come back. But i of the also, i would like to underline without a political strategy. The use of force will be very effective. And i wouldnt ask the government, i would pass priming primaries at all. Yeah. Allow you to leave, make it easy for us to not take your responsibility. It shows that youll be here for almost 3 years. Yeah, the 1st document, nothing building for 2nd, we estimate nothing daily ever believes step back come together. Okay, well lets jump in the present resignation and participate in the political process actually helped to touching the unimportant appeal that many thanks to ralph and thanks to all of i guess initially, ambassador francois gave them, of course, and the cherokee vanda fell back brown and Ralph Emanuel francois and thank you to for watching. You can see the program any time by visiting our website down to 0 dot com. But for further discussion, go to facebook page. Thats facebook dot com forward slash a j inside story. So you can also join the conversation on x r handle is at a j inside story for me during the whole, and the whole team here case could buy the pieces of dentist wildflowers in the history of chile. It began with what people describe as a sudden downpour to cinders, getting by fierce winds. This way look like a very small flyer right now with this at this time tree or whats left of it. And the real significant thing is whats underneath, and that is the roots of the tree there, very deep. So when you put out the fire, it can ignite it at any moment unless the firefighters keeps coming back and back again. They started simultaneously and exactly the same hour and 6 different places. This was no accident. The government appears to agree vows to find and punish the culprits, the finest charges with which to new extinction. Now the army enjoys and community groups. The group the back from the brain when east investigates on march, the 7th us President Joe Biden will deliver his state of the Union Address with issues like immigration, economic recovery, add americas response to global conflicts on his agenda environment, re up to his leadership credentials in this personal election year, special coverage from washington, the, [000 00 00;00] the hello, im sammys, a don, youre watching a special edition of the news, our life from bill coming up the next 60 minutes. We have a choice between where we stand for were traveling the mega republican stand for we when he will be tried at the ballot box. This november id will be judge said convicted by the american people. We cant be a country in disarray in a world on fire and go to 4 more years of chaos. We will provide