Hello there and welcome to the program. Im laura kyle. Palestinians displaced by as well as will ongoing. So have crowded into rafa in the south of the strip is where the ministry had previously described the city as a safe sign, but daily strikes are intensifying and a ground offensive is planned. Putting 1500000 people squarely in the line of fire. There also reports of a possible space 5 day oh, between as well and how much. However, Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu says, as well as a salt on ruffled, well go ahead no mass of water. Is there any hope for palestinians traps in the city with no way to go until everything stop as well as ground operation . Will control panel and just a moment, fast friends, and want to have this report. Israels bombing of gauze, as for some more than one and a half 1000000 palestinians to take refuge in rough up their Living Conditions are dire. There is no rules or science. Haitian food and basic necessities are in short, supply and diseases are spreading through the makeshift caps. The women, my son has contracted hepatitis virus because of the unhealthy and unclean conditions we are living and we are living in attend, that cannot protect us from cold or rain. In addition, the entire surroundings are dirty. The whole area is searching and polluted, hunger. Colds and disease are devouring our children. But soon things make it even worse. Israel is determined to launch a ground assault on the city. Well, theres been talk of a potential ceasefire Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu says it would only delay the military offensive, which he says is essential to defeating a moss. And ensuring is rarely security. We cannot leave a quarter of a mazda is terrace battalions intact. No one would do that in the case of the fighting isis. You wouldnt leave a quarter of isis intact in a defined territory. You wouldnt even think about that and you didnt. America finish the job with its allies. We will finish the job here with our brave soldiers. The United Nations and agencies of ward ground incursion into rafa with lead to civilian deaths is made even israels biggest allies. The United States, as i said now, is not the time for an assault that no attacks on rafa should, should take place, given current circumstances, and we will keep pressing that. We know weve heard what israel has said. They have not gone into attack rafa. And we will keep engaging and urging and pushing in that direction to ensure that that does not happen a cease fire will get posted in some reprieve after months of the environment and deprivation. But evan is really ground offensive does come. There may be no way for them to get out of harms way. Fits and monahan ultra 0 for inside story. The well to unpack the significance of an attack on ross. So weve got a panel of gas with a range of political, humanitarian and ministry expertise for you here in the castle. Capital the hall, we have a question, he documented, hes a senior Diplomatic Correspondent of post. Hes covered us policy on garza since the Obama Administration in colorado, not so shala is the country Relations Manager with the agency ups time. She was a resident of gauze and involved in the u. K. Patrick barry is a senior electra and security of the university of both specializing and wolf and counter terrorism. Hes also served in the Position Army in afghanistan, and i will welcome to all of you our quote of starts with you. Why is it, do you think the nation, yahoo government is determined despite the outcry from the corners of the world to press the head with a ground offensive and rush by. And its try to, laura its, its a reality that reflects the failure of israels us thought. Defensive involves a sofa, right . Were approaching 6 months of the floor. And israel has not been able to meet the kind of test blow to him us. But they promised they wouldnt that a lot of these really public wants them to. So thats why you see pregnant, so nothing. Yeah. Whos saying, regardless of whether thats a sci fi, regardless of what it as a cruise, he will eventually go into a rough and thats because hes arguing thats where that some of the leadership, thats where there is. Uh there are remaining hostages and thats a, thats a huge Strategic Value to israel, right. Israel is saying they want to control god in a way that they never have before the, especially ones who control jobs of southern border with egypt. All of that puts israel at odds with the us as, as a report mentioned. Because the us, the thing, look, you can see what a loss you cannot go into a place that you called a safe. So that will just whats in these, this perception of ethnic cleansing, of genocide as a nice case continues. But what does that mean . Yahoo administration, i think thats a clear uh, impetus to the 5 of us on this and that. So as i said, this is a being declared to circle safe zone. The for most of the goals and population of crowded into the city that was designed to sustain 300000 people. We now have a 1500000 People Living that mostly in tents. Can you describe for us the humanitarian situation that in rafa. Yeah, i mean its very obvious that we are now talking about uh, just i know the extreme doesnt the station and. Busy has been already with missing dots. We have been already running off of this data station under human suffering at the casualties, but also the human suffering that its, that this uh, this crisis has been uh, unfolding. Unfortunately is between now about these pages where things are extremely critical at all levels and humanitarian workers have not been able to operate by maybe 3rd of the capacity, according to you m records in terms of the stuff and the teams and alterations out until this moment so you would imagine after central creation how, how this would be impacted a lot of i in deals and non, non, because i mentioned organizations that 8 workers ive been re establishing sent me kind of structures and, and, um, stations to on to off today and from now all of this wouldnt be compromise and again the, the flow of the, of, of people to. Busy any place, i mean, 1st of all of us started by saying this is the safest one we, we understand. And it now is right in terms of what the things on mean. It has always been uh, violated and far from being safe as civilians have been a tough but those have been it. And agencies have been directed to the head we know about to a piece diety owns office as best as of friday. The. His and convoys have been hit, so you had already talking about it as, as a very and already had a french on and, and violated situation. So trying to imagine now 75 percent of the population of the causes to enough what, what, what could be any, any, do you need any needs all these panelists to tell you what to imagine if israel has an incursion, what with the same situation . I think its fairly clear that we are going to see more uh, more stuff. Think of more people especially bundled. Uh huh. At people what se, but the in gaza strip, according to all kinds of studies and all of the work that weve been doing at tennessee and that they are in need of. Okay, sure lets, lets spring. So thats bringing patrick at this stage because hes got direct experience of, of, and wolf. Im probably would not even talking about of and well fight in the usual sense here. All we were talking about a 10 said city could you give us an idea of militarily, whats a Ground Invasion into a rafa would look like a ton, i mean, you know the planet and so this will be probably base rent 2 options either have a conventional approach which is why is rather mainly use so far above the end of all the. Busy 3rd about before i got the city and that in about 10 units, which is fire, power heavy and reliance on taking territory and obviously potentially buying and destroying a mass combined bonkers and positions. And also as we know, you know, the hospitals accept or which is res. Views Collateral Damage and a huge amount of civilian casualties as a result of that. So thats the bottom of the 2nd one and understanding the a much more intelligence lead. More targeted approach, which weve actually seen a few, a few uh, elements all start to develop and the 2nd phase of the war and con, units when they started to heres how much leaders individually in different places is to get into a more more targeted intentions based special forces, and even in terms of Counter Insurgency approach, which is less forceful and much more targeted use rate is a key pioneer. This after the end, bought it in 2006 unhealthy or an even earlier unhealthy us pioneered against the kind in a rack you know, and around that time to something know had to do is uh, but the question is, the political imperative and these are the goals, its like coming back to what yeah, 9. He says he says that theres 25 conventional battalions or something here. Corner of the tibetan, you mentioned at the time in flat and so they are rank and it needs to be got all the support. I have to be a time internally thats just keep rolling. I mean i, i find that i understand the fear from use varies of course, but from a, from the western energy perspective, the inability to protect civilians at such a scale of which these marries have demonstrated is really beyond comprehension. To me as a former military officer, and weve seen this not to mention the daily bombing of calls that despite it being a safe so in just on monday night we had 8 civilians killed in a house near the q 8 hospital that was talked in by and as strike, do you think the pulse of the reason for these strikes could be that they are clear in the way full of Ground Invasion . I its well, you would. Thats hard to say. You know . Absolutely. But i didnt tell it and they will all of us. We have some sort of intelligence and expensive, a targeting style, theyll do their Collateral Damage assessment. And when the. Ready treatment says city of the targeted balance versus the Collateral Damage staying the west. For example, when we were in a kind of stuff, we wouldnt be able to use this sort of Weapon System if there was any hope that it has to be, might be killed. That israel inside what were going through this process, bullets are actually weighing off how many civilians is uh, acceptable for this minute to target a different. So thats what is going up by what you would expect to see. A bit altering offensive is expected. I would say some more on bar, and then some special forces raised some attempts to really clear. And then theyll break then uh, the, the remaining cavity around probably into sections and probably see quinn. Should he go into them bad . Potentially. I called the us very clearly saying its will not support a rough invasion until it sees a clear evacuation plan. No one has been presented. Now see is really more cabinets. We dont know the details of that, but can we imagine who is the us . Im asking, whats the evacuation of one point . 5000000 civilians would look like to. Its unimaginable. Its unprecedented. Unimaginable that is a lot of capacity in the us government. Much larger than these where the government, im military within the u. S. A and machinery that isnt the capacity to imagine its evacuation. So its, its really tough to imagine these readings have a realistic plan for this. And i think thats why you see you as the officials saying very openly and then really havent. The rhetoric has suddenly shifted, right . Ultimately, the another thing is route and you cannot do this. Youve seen them say this in washington, but also importantly in new york at the United Nations, right. Whether us is not talking about a ton pricey 5 for the 1st time ever. I think thats because of the strategic implications of the rough or offensive. The humanitarian tool would be undoubtedly huge, right. But lets think about arrangement thats already on the nightstand should. Lets think about the fact that run the bond is now less than 2 weeks away. Tensions are really high, extremely high in the occupied westbank as well, extremely high and through the slim on the us. As looking at that picture and thinking is rough. Uh, becomes different blood bots that it follows setting to become whenever they go in a when that happens. What, how do, how does the region react, right, how to iran and its proxy react, the us have a feeling strategy to wonder who these and yet, and right the us is concerned about his beloved on how does everyone react to this right now, israel and the us to will have on so its about, i think whats critical does is just when will the us decide to use its leverage and terms of actual military unintelligible support. We know that providing for this campaign, when will not be called into question rather than just having a rhetorical shift accidentally because thats what point is, is real going to listen to . Well, the opinion anyway, i mean that has the ability, weve seen to stomach extraordinary Collateral Damage and it does just seem to be forging ahead with the most extreme right wing views in the nation. You all who government, who clearly do want to go into rafa who wants to go in. Right. And who, who, who has a narrative that weve seen very, very openly from this government saying not only do we want to, you know, punish palestinians wholesale, right . For the actions or from us, but we want to take full control of casa, right. Youve seen them use the phrase from the river to the see which are honestly israel support and sort one is real critics using. But the other thing that so that means they have to kind of have this huge advance, i think whats, whats critical to remember those, the us and israel will be paying the price for this for months and years and decades to come. Right . So while its real can stomach or the criticism today im finished with population, so you know what went done . What does this mean for israels ability to survive in the region for the next 5101520 s. I think thats the really scary question. Well, lets just put that to patrick means said to us, pull the plug on its weapons delivery today. How much stronger could it continue . Actually general, what i want to pick up on is, is the last cut and contributors point for us, which is now hes exactly right. I think israel is starting to lose sight of the strategic situation here in favor of the operational. Yeah. And its alienating the bowl in the west. It is happening that it needs. Yeah, its a uniting as im in the us. And if it goes into rafa, i dont think they really understand it. I know where theyre coming from. Say theyre, they think this is a bad neighborhood. We have to show that we are told we have to deal with this head on someone else would have to deal with it again. And well just take casualties again. So i understand where theyre coming from. I understand what people havent got on support. I understand up to this point to a degree, although i think the Collateral Damage problem is terrible. I. But heres my fear here. For example, if they go into this in the longer room, thats it. And that if i was working in his writing security i the vehicle to the circuit, but just to let nasa pick up on this and bring them, bring it back into the discussion. Do you think that as well as any and they taking the west fast enough because it doesnt seem to be paying any attention . Exactly. Its not paying any attention. I think um, the west doesnt see the uh, can i please the United States is not making any and any pressures about not worth reading stuff. I mean again, is just saying gap. Make it lighter with the with just dont can too many people. I think this language and, and so far the behavior of like supplying a military assistance like like things are totally supported and, and im totally and norman and tell us that unfortunately the us will not be getting a good thing, but enough pressure is about we are hoping for it and is there a really doesnt, can look at whats happening after the i c j. I think we have seen how the age flow has decreased significantly after the i c j. A good thing. I think everything that is true is uh is doing simply contradicts. Busy i mean, i mean, all these pressures over at the International Humanitarian law or any of that. So i wonder if we are now saying this level of pressure talking about talking about that as it is. Yes. They honest frustrating them and stopping them. And no, i think things will unfortunately be uh, continue to be really bad and we are losing people vitamin as people are suffering. No, going to the weird when people go i have a friends and relatives that they, they literally ask the question, where are we going . Do we go up north where there is old destruction, where there is no fluids, where people are literally dying out actually dying from hunger. We are seen reports on depths of children to hunger. We dont that 15 percent are at this risk of sounding and i mean what, what else is it to . Is it the word or the u. S. A waiting for . I dont know what to put on with that. Its obvious. I think i think the whole international know, and the world a system had still to they say, and i think this is not so this would be, this would have its implications on any upcoming uh, any upcoming situation. Like this one, tony, they think 30000 people can that more than 60000 insurance, they are unable to find treatments you are talking about. At best case has 200 trucks entering wired in the past 3 weeks. We have seen up to 40 or 50 trucks or the non of n y. We know that big also Service Needs at least 500 in the, in the, in the best se, a scenario before this, why its under located for 17 years. I mean the but i can pull it up because i just want to pick up on that question of where people will go. We come back to it time and time again. Garza has been decimated. There is no way to go inside, especially new west safe and the u. N. Has that is not going to be policy to any movement of people, force displacement at cool that i want to ask you what you think of satellite pictures that were seeing on the board with egypt, where we see them preparing a buffer zone by we see them preparing a rolled come car, i was denied. But and the thing is happening the but does nothing yahoo perhaps does the us even see a root out full palestinians by the rough of crossing into this line. I put it so in egypt, cairo has denied it unimportant. The lower that they dont want us talking about it. They have actually gone off to journalists who have been reviewing the creation of this one thats on with any chip. So thats important thing to remember. But its undeniable that is happening. Um it would be a default. So for egypt its important. Remember that egypt is also a key us out. All right, biggest hard country to very close the american military. The us has said we will not let this happen. But again, we havent seen the us use that leaves us to prevent any broad scale pushed into the site. I still think its unlikely its just because egypt vs seen the opposed to it. Um and i think many palestinians would be very opposed. Right. Thats important. Tremendous Something Like 80 percent of coffins are themselves descendants of refugees, of, of displaced people. They do not want to feel the are being pushed out of that land yet again into another foreign space with no guarantee or when they could return. And i do just want to pick up on the point about northern cost x, i think thats a really important point as well. In terms of the us leave us to alleviate this. They feed zoom out a little bit for us, one for us to be talking about trucks, right . 40 trucks, 200. 00 truck, 500. 00 trucks. Dont eat experts and, and even some people have been gone for the last thing is that is just to range to measure. We cannot be taking in those tons, lets thinking a bigger sense of whether off all gets assigned in northern casa, and there are many entrances to israel that could be used to bring in humanitarian need, is the us. And israel chose to do that right now. The not choosing to do that. So i think as what the looking at rough, um least, and we think o, can they do this in some kind of a few mean we that would take care of the civilians but allowed them to meet the military objectives. The record is very clear, right . And, and the actual us leverage in terms of taking care of as Palestinian Civilians has not been use. And we arent seeing any statement from the us or any open it from the Authority Side to, to laptop shape the, the operation and rasa. Patrick. We know that the, the is where the all me is in the knowles, in the, in central god. I mean is across the whole of the strip. It is still trying to hold on. The still slicing baffles in the north end of a pumps have gone to a con, eunice. How give us an idea of how difficult it is to hold onto an area on one front, was launching another offensive on another, does as well have the results is to cover the whole of the strep. In a word . Yes, i think it does, i, its Bank Strategic worry but as a, as the tax on that or we saw offices on finding, but it never really got to the explanation level of, of, of around activating and proxy and a major strategic way. Which is that is about fighting on 2 funds such as the worst case. Ready scenario it has enough to do that, its that it said something that the reserve is home, but it does have the military power as it were, a to change and a whole brand in, in, in the time you and this guy, the city. And then and wrap up, the difference is, of course its going to be somebody will visit the pockets of resistance that are left or finding like an insurgency. You know, they can hi, its making blended with civilians that are kind of just styles and 5, ive been in the, in the already phases. And so theyre going to take costs of these are going to be intermittent bottles as a whole Tunnel Network that thats built by him through. So, but this isnt that the scale that we saw in the, in the, in the initial finds, of course, you know, if you look at actually the way the casualties have gone, its gone. It was very fast to 15 days and 35 to 20. And then started to slow down, you know, and one way thanks a lot of that. Its all too much, you know, still, i wouldnt say just coming back to the other contributor by the west. You know, there it is growing. You had a us air force person, the name of they themselves the day. Its not. View is radio this. Yesterday you had to bbc leading with stories, guys, and 5. These are the 3 brothers over the, you know, over and on their website today and yesterday, and you had the judge reviews, you know, by law the Court Ordered them to stop supplying is reading the cards for the ex 35 jet. So there is no, you can say, yeah, its not good enough. The governmental level, you have the car and then spain table motion and i train deals and im surprised it is around to so theres things happen. But maybe, obviously not enough, not to your goals or a residence because thats an yahoo saying from day one. But he will not stop until he has total victory and to him total victory is the elimination of how much. So i think that has been a stepping back in that rhetoric over the few months and the acceptance that you simply cannot eliminate how much in goals. So what do you think total victory would look like financing . Yahoo . I mean thats a good time. Im not sure if i have a intelligent answer, but as a palestinian, he hasnt gone and i think it is 0 since am wants to control the box because the strength and wants to control as much as possible from the past. And you have done that doesnt really care about any in the agreements in the past or the, or the function you in the front of the you know, trying to look for the change. But thats, thats my personal it as a palestinian and unfortunately im, but im telling what it does to i would never be able to go back and, and, and the same for me. Those who are now in gaza or im just going to see good refuge. I think thats, thats already somebody shopping. Now there is 1948 and kind of us and now your knowledge about the sense sense that they are we rush or not, or 32. 00. He is in october 15th. Uh huh. Well, how much is the us considering the day off to the wall in gauze . Uh, what is the plan for the governance of the strip for the rebuilding of the strip . Is it focused enough on this the us plan . I thought spoke news of this in january the us plan, is it very much focused on, on israel, Us Saudi Arabia deal that would allow saudi funding to come in. Maybe some of the arab states to come in and help reconstruct gaza and a published city. And a 40 that does not include from us dots, thats what they want. And that doesnt mean they can get the right. I mean, youve seen this week of summary shuffling on the policy and political side, but me ins towards a new policy and government for the west bank and gaza. But all of that to see these are both for plans and right now we still dont have a plan to end the war until question from that in yahoo total victory. I think thats just not a victory. Right . That that is real complaint, but i think thats, thats sort of the, the issue here right now is, is really, is the side, the soul fractured nothing. Yahoo himself is so alienated. I agree, right . And desperate to cling on to follow that. I dont know when we can get israel tony around and saying ok, read done. So what post will conversations are happening . I think you could get some sort of the near of stability youve saw on the seeds of huge and stability to come and, and just goal of eradicating him off as you mention, even the, as the radius of kind of drawn back from that right now, the thing, what ill eradicating much, its degrading me right and okay, and then what you do, right . So the 3 us on line when, when the research and theyve already been researching, i mean the woman there is where the forces in godsa. I have jane st. Plannings happening yet in washington or tele fees. Okay. Its been a really interesting discussion today. Thank you very much, everyone for joining us. Act boss i had ok with and thats the show and patrick barry, im thank you to for watching. You can see the program again, any time by visiting our website thats out, is there a dot com for further discussion to go to a Facebook Page thats facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. It was enjoying the conversation on x or handle as, as a inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here is 5 and the in a wild animal tone from its habitat to satisfy the legal was life trade loses its survival skills. But re discovering them is possible with the little house apart, granger facing retirements, ruffles with the prospect of re assimilating himself to city life. Monkey man, a witness documentary on a jersey to more than half of the population of the cause of the truth is risk examined. Since the beginning of the words they only have one meal per day. A that is coming in of the causal strip is not preaching of the people, and people are starving. We are in as indicated by the where theyre making their house as a kitchen. They start very early in the morning. Theyre using wood fire because there is no cooking discuss this lent as to is cooked without any festivals they are using on your house or an alternative to the onions. Its the woods and the smoke of the fire is it makes your eyes cry and fits, suffocating. But a search, how many do this every single day to give a hand to the palestinians this place starving. And they say that this is the least of what they can give to their people. The israel from barge central guys or for another night. It starts of killed almost 13000. 00 palestinians physics over this. The time about this, and this is all just we have a live from bill hom, also coming up food aid is dropped into parts of southern johnson. Thomas jennings, in the north se is really, is a blocking delivers the criticism of jo, buttons, guys are policies, he wins the democratic primary in the us state of michigan. You dont have to go to