Hello again. Own jane space human suffering on an epic scale. The view of the un secretary general antonio terrace on the plight of 2300000. 00 palestinians on the is ready bombardment in casa, in peace, time cutting off supplies of food, water, medicine, electricity, and fuel would be a disaster in a time of war for a besieged enclave with thousands killed and injured and relentless attacks. Its a catastrophe, as there are other cats. Thats my medical personnel rescue. Cruise and civilians continue. While israel blocks desperately need to minutes every night. For most palestinians, the u. N. Is a lifeline. The main source of supplies and the International Witness to the suffering you and stuff with being killed and his right the attacks and you in schools, im clinics have been bombed. But in new york, the Security Council has failed to buy motions that could have facilitated humanitarian relief. So what can we you and do to help us to use . What challenges does the global body face in this will . Were discussing all of this in a moment with a panel of guess, but 1st, depending processing in journalist honey, im a shape tells us what life is like in garza today. Im going mass bombardment, or better known by experts as carpet bombing has turn major parts of the gaza strip into a pile of rubble. In a statement made by the ministry of health, the ears tribes have all of the claim. The life over 30073478, palestinian life. 70 percent of those who have been killed by their strikes are children and women. There are also 12000 palestinians who have been critically injured. As with the number, with number trapping under the rubble, the expected numbers of palestinian victims is expected to rise to 6000, making it a closer to the victims of the 3rd. Panica massacre complete sees on the gauze as trim with serious short ease of, of a fuel and, and, and medical supplies has pushed hospitals and medical centers on the brink of collapse. We have hospital, so fox that are running out of services, adding only pressures to other hospitals who have, who are really running beyond their capacity. So lets bring you know, a panel of guests to discuss all of this in geneva location computer. A professor at the university of manchester in the u. K. In a former un humanitarian coordinator in alexandria, in the us state of virginia is yusef when they are the head of the palestine and Israel Program of the arabs sent to washington dc. And in london we have chris gunn, is hes a former un relief and works agency spokesperson, but he doesnt work for them anymore. Hes speaking to us in an independent capacity. Let me start with you, chris, because weve already had full goals. It was before. Ready or, and you were speaking on behalf of the you and from jerusalem about the situation in gaza. When you see what has happened, this time to fight the death toll as far as exceeded the death toll in 2014. Are you surprised in any way how bad things are . Im not surprised because the blockade has continued by surprise 5, the sheer loss of life. And the last, oh, im looking for um, what time period is the un will be allowed to take trucks in the sol. This conflict was taking in 5 hundreds of trucks a day. So you know, the 1100000 people in gauze are all dependent on risk. So im getting 500 trucks the day. Thats going to be a c spot that i already 13 underwood because have been killed already. Searching schools have been hit. Now we have the latest report from rough talk a 1000000 people in the schools, the health clinic, so being hit as well. So we need a prophecy. So we need to look at the, um, the buildings on the house, the 11th smooth distribution center, across the gulf stream. That gonna get a huge amount of boot, bobus the, those warehouses that may be structural damage up to this intense is ready. But lets go to the a c spot so that people can come and collect the food. So a massive logistical, id like to say political operation in order to get this, the spot going. So a huge amount of, uh, i believe, a ro, 13000 of my former colleagues, all that is still the, by the people of god in the most desperate of need and the law schools, they will continue to do that. But make no mistake. It is, oh its nice fun actually all set that put out a slash appeal for a 100000000. 00, but that is still to be met because weve got to get food. We go to get, he said, by the way, fuel, israels not yet said it was the last few with it. Well, this move to getting water. I mean go to the pumping station, but the sort of nation problem got to work. So we need security. We need a huge amount of trucks, 5 hundreds of days to go through rock or rather was bottomed recently. Its a very small one, road in one direction, one right in the other. So there was a huge amount of books by narrow to the unrest logistical to get the, the crossings functional. And also secuity doesnt go to be a c spot. So that is massive. Humanitarian need can be met with cache. We know that as being well going on, trying to arrange some sort of a to going into goes up for well over a week now. And finally present bite and it seems got some progress. But as chris said, you know, hundreds of trucks before the war use go into garza. And initially the deal is just for 20 trucks. You are a former humanitarian coordinator for the un, and resident coordinator when saddam, how on earth, if you were in the job now in in casa, how on earth would you prioritize what to send . If youve only got 20 trucks . Well i think they play the truck so i hope like just the symbolic to test to the uh, the, the, the, the route and uh, to bit of confidence. And i hope uh, from frontier to go to 2000 or even even more. Uh, having said that the, i think that it has to be private position. Obviously food and walter healthcare dominates uh as a elsewhere. But at the same time as the thing just being said, it does not do it just to sending the relief drugs that has to be in a piece enough cruise so that people can get it and can actually benefit from it. And so the idea that you can tell you on fighting, and then the try to me to get some of the suffering by sending in a few trucks a here in the, on the hoping that people will, but somehow get some really, is i think a very flawed prospect, and in fact, i can imagine some of the students that go get logistic issues helping, i mean with costing lives if there is to be conflicting buffer of relief provision underneath uptake. But of course, the ongoing, the bombing and use of what were hearing though from these really minute traits is yes miss on yahoo is letting some aid in. But theres no suggestion that the stopping the military operation, the bombardment has been continuing, including around rafa in, in recent hours. And theres no suggestion that theyre not going to go to the next stage, the ground defensive. Thats unfortunately absolutely correct. Um, the level of our effect violence that we are seeing unleashed now on guys on everything that were hearing from folks on the ground for, by the way, have lived through far too many wars are saying that this is worse than anything that theyve ever experienced in terms of the, the, the share level of destruction and cost to human life. Of course, you manage hearing aid is important. The aid workers who are working on the ground despite this, are doing heroic things. But the reality is that you, mandatory and aid is not going to do a whole lot for people who dont live to receive it. Even the little of that does trickle in. And so a um you know, uh, an urgent push needs to be made in this moment to bring a stop to the bombing for an immediate cease fire. Not just so that the conditions can exist to allow humanitarian aid to come in. But because the most urgent concern now is saving lives that do not need to be lost. And we have seen far too many of them lost already. If i can come back to chris and they will just be searching. Yeah, if i may, i mean how stadiums do not want to be on a do they want to live decent independence but so really what is just being said of calls. All these things must happen. But we need to make sure that ultimately the lord have is listed so that the cost of conversation is about well speak, allow them to goss of bread. Right . And then what well do is we need to look at whats coming out of gaza. Prostate is our own to premier real, that educated that most of the people go off, it could be the single pull ultimately, if it was allowed to be so as well as a discussion about mexican food and other materials in that has to be full. So it was same time, some kind of discussion about who is allow. Garza is a huge the productive disorder and see if there was advert told to produce the government industry visit to the industry to express all sorts of stuff and all of the cost to be put back on its feet. There must be a pro conversation about who is let out and thats very important, even at this stage, this conversation should stuff. If i can stay with you, chris, for a moment so you can help all of us just a little bit more detail on, you know, the geography. Know the logistics, you know, the roof of Border Crossing. Just tell us a little bit more about the roof of Border Crossing and outreach, which is the add ports about 45 kilometers away. What apparently does now that they go to a great deal if you monetary assistance has been floating and i told them estimated 3000 tons. Is that how difficult will it be getting that to you and then through the choke point of roughly and then distributing is well, ive been through the rest. The cool thing with this and to to is it happens on this mission many years ago and its a single lane road in one direction. At least it used to be cutting out a single lane and going off getting into garza as bone by these rays. So its very, very rapidly has got to be repetitive, other reduce me a by and you can get from out of reach to, to rough uh very, very quickly. But tell us little subjects when we have some these ratings many years ago, the security narrative. But if we let stuff in with that stuff out is going to be weapons and ball. But you can union on how those bills. The carol shalom crossing point is a huge industrial scale troubleshooting the point of a. So you get to the point of the pool with dozens of legs of trucks and contain delores, that was built in a way which was apparently seen to israel legitimate security concerns. No other that will stay can see now. But with the very purpose of current law was precisely what were discussing now. And that is to get in the industrial scale levels of products. So the 1 point, one more 1000000 people can have the food in the midst of the fuel. The cool thing is this is the sergeant need, so yes, it is the only game in town. Sure. It has to be used to go other resubmit by. Things can be real to ultimately the world creates is this thing called a cash loan crossing point. It should be opened up immediately because only carol, she will cut us off in its presence full will, allowing the house loves assistance and other materials that will need to use if and when it comes to the things that are needed. The needs of the, of the people, the desperate needs. So the people of garza, chris just mentioned few tell us how important fuel is. I mean, full full pumping water dissemination plants, but probably most importantly for the hospitals in garza. Yeah its, its hard for people to really wrap their heads around what life in gaza is like, the lack of electricity has been, um, uh, you know, a constant condition in the gaza strip. Now for years it has increasingly gone, gotten worse overtime. And particularly since the israelis bond causes only power plant in 2006, its never really been able to recover. And uh, the presence of electricity sometimes can be a few hours a day, sometimes can be um, not at all. And in many places in the gaza strip, that is the case. Now of course, so fuel has become really a backup option for creating electricity through generators, which so many different homes institutions and, and um, you know, and implants require to be able to function whether it comes to water. Do you sell a nation or, you know, keeping the lights and the machines on and hospital wards that are trying to desperately save the lives of people who have been, who have been brutally injured in a and these attacks and i, and i do want to just add one thing here in relation to the conversation about the, the crossings and roughly and so on. You know, a lot here depends on the United States as ability to get the, as rarely use to allow this to happen. And one episode that i think was missed by a lot of folks is the other day, the United States secretary of state anthony blinking was meeting with these rarely Prime MinisterBenjamin Netanyahu for 8 hours. During this time, the United States was telling it citizens in the gaza strip to head to the roof by crossing so that they could be able to exit safely. And it was due during this time. While the secretary of state was meeting with the israeli Prime Minister and telling his citizens to go to rough off because it was safe, but that the israelis bond the rough crossing again. And so i think im a major issue here is that the, the only player that really has a leverage and the ability to restrain the as rarely as is unable to even do so for the protection of its own citizens. Even when its secretary of state is sitting next to the as rarely Prime Minister. And i think that should send a great degree of concern to all of us about how much leverage there is uh over um israel in this moment as it is denying access to humanitarian aid to everybody there. And also, of course, reading bombs down on the population will cache as a full most senior humanitarian official. Even if you get a dean, is it . Is it, is it good enough . If you dont have a c spa to deliver that 8 . I think its extremely difficult. I think that the issue uh, you know, how many tennessee and this change in the old days, the window was you agree to a pause in the war and then use of like 8 and then the way it went back to finding. Now were expecting humanitarians to supply in the middle of the fighting for hospitals to function, even at the bottom the raining or on new. I think this is not a tenable situation. In fact, it probably most people have in place. It reeks, not just a book to lose lose their lives, but also people are coming to that. So i, im, im really not sure what to focus on a getting in is really that important. But to actually what we need to be doing, but just drive it was the skin just touched ation because its a little if we want to increase the amount of weight going in through the, through the border with the road to bed and so on. It is going to be ma, do you know, to survive the chances of the people . So either the people have to get out, or they have to come to a se salon where it can supply them safely. So i have to worry that part of the discussion about to manage a note is almost to use you by any, during a aid of an alibi for not being able to do the other things. I think the pension has to be on the political side as much as on the 8 side. Okay . Because let me pick up that point about a possible c spa or humanitarian pause, because its something that the un Security Council had before them 2 different resolutions of russian resolution. That didnt pos, the Security Council. And then a brazilian draw off to which originate called for an immediate cease fire. And off the lots of negotiations including of the us is allies, the you can fronts, butchering it, down became humanitarian pauses. And yet the us still vetoed that resolution. They would have passed otherwise that with 12 of the countries in favor of the resolution. Listen now to what the Us Ambassador said to explain why she raised her hand a veto to resolution cooling fee, amount of tearing causes. We are on the ground doing the hard work of diplomacy. And while we recognize brazils desire to move this tex forward, we believe we need to let that diplomacy play out. Especially when secretary general gutierrez, president , bite, and secretary blinking, and regional actors are engaged in intensive dialogue on the very issues we are deliberating on today. Us. Yes, resolutions are important. And yes, this council must speak out, but the actions we take must be informed by the facts on the ground and support direct diplomacy efforts that can save lives. The council needs to get this right. Chris, listen to that. I think the excuse was we cannot have a humanitarian pause because it will get in the way of diplomacy. Whats the point of diplomacy . Employees, if it gets into the, in the way, is world war exits somebody because graceful. Its disgusting to hear. That being said, ive lived through it before i let me tell you what the em all of these golf balls when the going on america always gives is. Well, i hate to use this phrase, a grace period, a period which they said ok, you go in a cheese, your role as you carry on for me. You can carol kidding civilians. But you know, the virus is too much let it be a couple of weeks, but all of this is you have agreed just as terrible items on the 7th of october. I imagine the america is giving his reason. Im not hearing the period a grace period is also hypocrisy to here, an american and best to say these things about giving diplomacy. Charles, weve moved those of us to be met and seeing these live through these terrible bombardments, we all know that america sets the israel, thats going to be a grace period for you. Take a walk, move across and you know, deal with International Humanitarian law. Im sorry to be cynical, this is what was up if america to go to the to put his hand up and vote with the resolution yesterday they could have done, they could have sent a message with these varies the enough. Thats enough. You just go with more concepts than you ever told me of a single thats fine, was going to start frankly, as far as im concerned, that the use of instructional aid as opposed to bits contemptible. Okay. You had a point. Well, i dont have a point how many points, but the 1st one is i dont peer linda and the american best of, of type of thing that was hi, good morris. That to the Americans Administration was to get credit for the diplomacy. So hoping to have a Security Council resolution this monday, just president in the coming to come in to, to jerusalem. So i think theres a bit of national equal here in board more than anything else. Nobody because investors tend to locked in that area and they somehow want to get the credit or whatever folders or see funds or monetary impacts. So im on the 2nd thing i want to say, and this is more important, is that the, i dont think we should be good stuff. One this to happen. Many, many Security Council resolutions in the past and on other situations before the school because of the finalized and it doesnt make any difference. So i think we should be worried about the situation on the ground, the practice of diplomacy and practical actions not more involved, but symbolic code words, as well as we should worry about small changes and friends, you only need to lee is a every constituency on the Security Council, so when distracted by this, nothing is going be sold, the in this go to thought or in new york, thats all the action is. That should is on the ground, thats it is whether or not people will die according to what access they have. And look back to do much can do on the ground in terms of expecting the same. So people should not get up to 10 of a bus go to concert resolutions in my opinion. Okay, well i am so im still going to ask about it though. I know ask yourself about this, im hearing from diplomats that the us will signaling that it could probably support this resolution. In fact, the chinese and past the said that in the Security Council, you said the fight, theyd be type was nothing short of unbelievable. It yes, and its absolutely disgraceful. And i think its important to keep in mind that there were previous attempts at the Security Council to put forward a, a, a resolution calling for a ceasefire with different language that was rejected not just by the United States. And of course, there was a number of modifications made to language which was then agreeable enough to everybody except the United States and who of course, vetoed it. Anyway. I think that the excuses given for the veto are also disgraceful. But even if we take them at face value, what has the american diplomacy achieved in this moment . The president of the United States was on his way to the region. Uh and uh, could not even meet with his key allies outside of israel to try to get a hold on the situation because the entire region is rejecting the american position on this issue thus far. Every moment that goes by. By the United States is continuing to lose control. Busy all over the ability to not just control the situation on the ground and gaza, but to control the situation throughout an entire region which is on the brink of regional war, which might bring the United States into direct confrontation with, with the states and the middle east. Again, the united nations, i, i would agree then what is happening on the ground is of, of the utmost importance. But at the same time, the failure of the International System to uphold the International Law and to demand accountability for it is the reason why we are here at this moment. And the continued failure to do that, i think we should only expect will bring us to more dangerous and horrific moments for which it will be much, much harder to, to get out of. And so i think there are tremendous concert cleansers to this american policy. Thus far on this, on this uh, war has been to give israel the maximum amount of space and time to exact what the as rarely Prime Minister called mighty vengeance in the gaza strip. This is unconscionable and immoral level. And it is incredibly dangerous on a policy level in ways that will impact everybody around the world. Chris, the failure in the Security Council on the new arrangements. So it came in last year means this actually has to go to the un general assembly. They have to have a meeting on this within 10 working days unless there is an Emergency Special session cold. Apparently ross is going to call one of those. Now when it comes very cool to the 193 countries, they are more favorable to the palestinians. Potentially than the Security Council, whether you, whether us has a, has a veto. Do you think this could be the time reaching for the us with regard to the global south might at home them, for example, in explaining that case. And ukraine as well, can i say this when this does move out . So the Security Council, i sincerely hope, did a bit of balance, is injected into this debate into this narrative because of the moment the narrative is about terrorism and its about, its not the right to defend itself, which i think is talking by the american visa. It isnt the best that she said we want to tell you the resolution about is. Busy right, to defend itself, but make no mistake. The, when you talk to palestinians of other countries about this, theyre all 3 cool. Just angela and told us of the conflicts which must be address festival locate of casa, which is seen 2300000 people subjected to in signatures in the past. And its an invisible thing. Its nothing used, or you can point to come right. But if you dont post into perspective is the best tools of the coverage must be addressed. Secondly, people to patient is going on since 1967. Im always seen with the law and inspection of the runaway, the far right set to the restriction is weve seen increased the most expensive jewish set of with that has come to mind. A pulling set provide is protected by these really mean the patient is a 2nd, a cool underlying cause to come to the power students would like to see addressed the very last leaf. This possession of the product stadiums in 19 full scale, never taught community is best. So just what dismantled and that has never been property address. So unless unimed to receive those 3 underlying causes of the conflicts addressed in a why does a baby perhaps in the general assembly, i think the israelis uh best him to leave a mistake. Oh no business. Im sorry. I see in the security of the people off of the palestinians, a lot of people have the tools as of resentment, roots of isolation, radicalization so i, when this debate is away from the Security Council, some bottles can be rejected. I mean, on the line cool. This of a corporate can be addressed as we move away from us now to the terrorism. Isabels lives dependence of tools is what has the right to defend itself, but we need to stand back and look at the underlying tools as of this conflict. Thank you, chris. Thank you too old. I guess im afraid we have to leave it there. Chris, goodness, yusef luna lucas capella. Youll find this program and all our previous programs. 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The challenges here with the, [000 00 00;00] the hello im serial venue. Its great to have you with us. This is the news our lives, some doha coming up in the program today is really airstrikes continued to promo gaza. Nearly 400 people have been killed in the past 24 hours. 81 of them in the cells which was declared a safe stone for civilians. A desperate need for humanitarian aid, people across the gaza wait for the arrival of 20 trucks carrying food and water