Has announced a complete blockade of gauze. The meeting is 2300000 people face a humanitarian catastrophe. Perhaps worse than before. Yes, it is right. The occupation and siege of life more than half the population in poverty lacking essential goods and dependent on aid. As well as defense minister, a member of the main stream liquid party and not its far right. Coalition partners describe the siege strategy referring to the palestinians. The fighting. As animals must be leaving. I have ordered a complete siege on the gaza strip. Theres no electricity, no food, no water, no fuel. In complete closure, we are fighting human animals and react accordingly. Them. The impact on godsons as such as to choose from mainstream habit educated is riley, politicians is deaf injury and that probation report that you made up as a new and there isnt garza city. She sent us some insight into what life is like then now. Today, march the 4th day of the is where you guys are worried that has started saturday morning after the infiltration of the tightest didnt meet a treat groups into the as really settlements as retaliation. These were in the army has lost many raids on the goal. Is this trip on residential houses, towers and most as well . It has also resulted in the death of many people. Hundreds of people, thousands of casualties and thousands of displaced people into the hospitals and normal schools. As there has been no safe place in garza anymore. There also has been a cuts in power, fuel, water, and food. This leaves us with a complete siege with no anticipations of whats going to happen in the a couple the next couple of days or hours as we have been with this a great now many ambulance has reaching us for hospital with the 10s of people from up the south of goza to meet i was on a garza inside story. Garza has been under his right. The blockade for almost 17 year is full thing, its people into a humanitarian and economic crisis. Its one of the most densely Populated Areas in the world. A narrow strip of land between israel and egypt about twice the size of washington dc. But with fruitful the population, about 2 thirds of gauze is 2300000 residents. Refugees. They live in 8 counts and all dependent on you and assistance. Palestinians in the besieged enclave live in cramped conditions and types courses, making them vulnerable to his riley strikes the well that spring, i guess into the show. We have joining us from to this francesca and they say United Nation special russell tour on the occupied palestinian territory. In haifa, israel is deana bhutto, a lawyer and full a spokeswoman for the Palestine Liberation Organization and the intel of eve. Gideon levy a columnist at these writing Newspaper Hall writes the offer of the punishment of gaza when it will well come to old. If i could start with diana, you know, the how common i was thinking, how rare is it in modern political this schools to hear a government minister openly vowing to stop a population of food, water, electricity, and few . Well, actually this isnt it all new for israel. Busy the, the, the fish that is real now tightening, has actually been in place now for 17 years. And actually much, much, much longer than that if you, if you look at the system of closure. The problem of course is that is really, is have gotten used to this to this process of d humanizing posted and we heard as much yesterday when he called palestinians human animals. And the fact that he gets to do so with complete impunity. Its this that has led to the events of this past week, but somehow they believe that they can do whatever they want to palestinians. And that history only began on saturday discount to 56 years of military occupation. This counting 56 years of what they saw over the course of the past, 48 hours being meet it out against palestinians for 56 years. So now if i couldnt down payment, if something has changed though, right . This was a tote. Obviously, garza has been on the siege for 56 years, according to International Law. It had originally under occupation for 56. 00 is it has been on the siege for 16 years. But now what is where the officials are talking about is total siege and restricting. Not just restricting stopping completely the flow of very basic vitals of life. Yes, absolutely. And so what theyre now giving up to, i want to put it in this context so that people understand this is not new, but they are intensifying it. And the whole point is that what they want to do is commit mass atrocities. And sadly, theyre being given the green light by the United States and by other countries around the world. Let me move to francesca. Nice. This question. The obvious one that comes to mind francesca is, how does this sit with International Law . It doesnt, its it. So its completely outside which is for me to, under International Law. And this is, in fact its, its sounds like a broken record, but this is the trajectory that i have been following in minds of submissions and documentations all very on the, on the ground. And my predecessors as well. Let me the something on visa located on the blue pages. Oh, what is needing to it . Start vacation, which is a crime. So these 2 mining under international and its and it will be criminally interest. It should be premium and prosecuted as the let me jump in and present to you. Perhaps the is ready perspective, least of those who support this fall right. Government does witnessing crimes that took place in killing is riley civilians. A tool that sits with the right to quote unquote is they put it self defense that we are defending ourselves. And we have a legal right to defend ourselves by imposing this complete siege, stopping the population of food, water, electricity, and fuel cannot be justified of hundreds. And i show your me nice. No, no, because Self Determination is fine. Defensive defense of a state is not the basis for just define options that constitutes crimes or other buyer, serious violations of International Law, and especially to come into complex social studies. So this is the reality. There are limits any mistake in the cycle of every ive talked. The principles of distinction, precaution and proportionality must be taken, not just during the entire over ation, a part of the chop talk. Cdns cannot be targeted and seen. Any prospector cannot be targeted, which is not what is what is happening and it is not what happened in the previous 5 words. That is true, it has no interest against the guy since 2008. Okay, let me bring gideon into the discussion and get in. Obviously, i know that you do not subscribe to the file right wing of his writing politics. But from your understanding of these, right, the body policy thats empowered right now. What do you think is the Strategic Thinking, the strategic goal of saying, were going to stop all food world electricity and fuel going into the gaza to achieve what in this according to your way when it comes to god. When he comes to the 3rd, when he goes to the occupied territories due to patient differences between the far right wing and the so called central list of mine already finished or so before we get into your question, thats not the labels on the right wing government because i guess a center and this government will be a right now in the position in this context. We are now a risk Center Left Government who we executive to say, including the stall, the siege, baseball, the sage, as low as your pores. Maybe because these photo cj can not class photo the problem to get in. Why content last . Because in a service stage, people were stopped in gods uh, it is widely known stand seen so stuff ation. And the dad was saying it was about a opening and you went to the car and door and theyre having some value ready . 3rd seas via this is not the problem. The problem is 17 use on the 10 ac and you can wait for me. Oh, nice dates that dont seem to be normalized by the same cheese, totally normalized. I use right by the community by every one. And then everyone is so is the only some show with that body seen is very, very good. I will be reinstated bombarded measures to both of them do okay, i want to go back to the on the, on the when we put this statement by the is right. The minister of defense about cutting off all food fuel will to, to gaza. Alongside in the context of what these right, the Prime Minister has been talking about about taking action that will change the middle east, telling palestinians to get out of gone. So do you start to have some concerns about whether there is thinking is really thinking here about demographic change in gaza . Is on the table. Oh yes. Oh yes, absolutely. And people are now calling for a 2nd not a 2nd my mass expulsion of palestinians. The 2nd ethnic cleansing, and this is where were gearing up look its, its not that far of a stretch when you hear the statements that have been ongoing, not just over the course of the past few days, but that have been ongoing now for decades by this Prime Minister and the other is really officials in which they say that its time to get rid of palestinians that they have to finish the job of 1948. When you hear that, you just oppose it with the state by the spot. You are going to just came out yesterday calling us human animals and just impose it with the statement buying it to you out saying that people should leave even though theres no place for them to go, because theyve closed off because the strip what were really gearing up to see is mass atrocities, the mass, expulsion of palestinians, or the mass. Let me jump in as one of them put to these very nice to but we, we hear from these riley ministry that they are making targeted strikes. They say on how mass quotas, military installations in gone. So this is not mass targeting of the civilian population. Thats impossible. Thats impossible. It is rarely speak now how mess equals gaza and so that any strikes and gaza to them is a justification for targeting high mass. And we know that that is not the case. So about 50 percent of the population of the cost. The strip is under the age of 18. Theyve lived their entire lives only knowing the siege. They havent had water, they havent been secure. Theyve lived through 5 wars, and yet they have no future. And yet the world still continues to behave as though its business, as usual, and as get it on said the siege, the blockade has become totally normalized. The suffering of palestinians has become totally normalized. The dehumanization of palestinians has reached peak peak levels such that were not allowed to even respond back to what israel has done to us for 56 years. All right, let me um, bring gideon back into this can be, is really government change the middle east and nothing. Yeah. Who was valley without launching a very serious ground . Defensive is that really ultimately what were looking at and i am sure that you are not asking this seriously because its ridiculous because the is what i need using the same threats and the segment. So its that the jews so many times in fame, bridge anything. So many times, i really need to decide the more a question. Im ready to book decide the legal wish. But where does it need to mean you are before about the strategic a, a goal or the only start changing your disease right . Is, can have in mind is getting rid of the students in one way or the other. But this is not the real estate board. And do you think thats the thing thats for some policy makers at least. And these are already contemplating right now, and at least in terms of gauze, or they can ready if dont get rid but shift the palestinian populations on how in gaza away from the boulder. Why would you be getting the better, you know, mean its the said, its clearly when they say about told the bottom bottom angle gosh, uh, what was the remaining gas up . They didnt get to the bottom bar above it. Perhaps francesca. So those who might not survive this right. Listening to what the w 8 joe said, only a matter of hours ago about how old the medicine, the medical supplies that they have. Pre physician has already run out. What kind of humanitarian situation all were heading to. And how quickly will emerge if people dont have some of the basics, like medicine, food, fuel, or even will to arrest these ready defense. Those there was vowing to cut off the gaza are going to be there. The risks are immense and therefore low. So theyre concerned, we are no talking over the normal situation. The door was something is a cutoff from the rest of the world. Gossip was already severely defeated and compromised before this happened october. And again i, i share the and give you is dismay at the, at the normalization of the situation and at the corruption because the, the blue pain itself, constituents already and were crime, a form of collect, keeps popping estimate and isnt what is going to come to happen next, without, without a central supplies, food, medicines and water or electricity. People are going to die and the wounded will not be able and out. And as im sorry, the hospitals will not be able to tour the wounded and there will be diseases hiding already. People from jobs are fearing, clara, which will happen with all the will, the destruction of civilian infrastructure and those should be to cure the wounded. Diana, if we look closer at the politics of this house, we reach this point in terms of complete failure of the political process and the political systems through a number of ways. The 1st is that there is a lot of emphasis on negotiations and some how to state solution rather than focusing on the problem which is military occupation and the denial of freedom and the ethnic cleansing of palestine. Thats one. But then beyond that, its that there has never been in place a system of accountability regarding israels actions. Israels never been held to account. My friend, your colleague, shit in a box is just one example. She was assassinated on may the 11th of last year. And today, nobody has been held to account for that. And there are thousands of shitty ends that are out there where israel has never been held to account. So in the mindset of israel is, this just becomes the system in which they can do whatever it is that they want to do. And, and so let me jump in today. I know youre running a lot of international organizations, have documented killings of what they consider to be extra judicial killings of not only john list and Civil Society workers, but all the palestinians are members of the palestinian population. And they say very clearly, theres a lack of accountability. Let me present to the v is really narrative and they would say, what has paralyzed the political process is what they call terrorism by these palestinian groups that they, they keep practicing con thing of civilians and attacks on civilians as the likes of which weve just seen sadly few days ago in so many people lost their life. Or, you know, this is again trying to flip things on its head. This is not a 2 way its occupation is a one way occupation is real doing the occupying and palestinians are resisting and trying to obtain their freedom. And if they dont like the response, which is 5 minutes, then they have to get to the root of it, which is occupation and occupation. There wont be virus. But thats the problem is that everybody keeps slipping. It on his head, a demanding that there will be a peaceful occupation and even then is real. Doesnt do anything. So i think rather than the world blaming the victims being the palestinians, they should be looking at themselves and asking themselves, how is it that weve left this system in place now for such a long period of time . How is it that in 2023 were still talking about the denial of freedom. How is it that this system is still in place and is now apartheid . How is it that this continues to happen . And thats where the, where the problem lies. We need to have adults who are going to come forward and who is real accountable without that is will continue to do whatever it wants. And the humanized palestinians in the process and then be shocked when there is a response. Get in. I know you said earlier that you dont see theres a lot of difference right now. The thinking between the far right and the i think the center left was what you were talking about. But bear with me for a moment. Get in. When you look back at the statements of people in the israeli government, like the minister of finance, best land smotts rich, his coal in march for palestinian villages like colanda to be a raised is the something of a history in the thinking of at least that broncho is ready by the policy, its about population change, raising villages, raising towns as a solution, as a policy option. Specifically is what hes doing aids slowly, slowly, very gradually. But its a lot of violence and even looking for the bands. People were approved it from the land speed through uh to the home, some of the properties, and then the silent which was the export of the their rice, bentley. Now, they might have decided one day to leave this business had, but no doubt that they were totally cool. Those shes who died so they didnt finish off and they will not cease. Will they be europeans like that side of smoke damage and bang for adults . No doubt that theyre in touring is really by far more extreme than they more civilized your story of the central days. Maybe they have planned so much small, crazy. But by the end of the day, the real danger is vedo. So more moderate swats, because they dont, they basic, and they just, they establish they, they will keep patient this company. They said to them and pro drug and the stop is, you know, that, but thats, is that, and they do it. So the, your relatively solely and there, for them mot from all these drugs, these because nobody can say games they, they dont so good or no or things say, you know that the silent majority some bolting boston is one in the work, one big stream use a g string, some kind of for now. So we should concentrate on the main stream of phase, right . This is our probably francesca if we, if is riley statesmen who are making statements like total siege, total bombing, if that is carried out. And why do we see a situation in which pressure will mount maybe on egypt to open up that boulder and we witness some kind of mass exodus of palestinians from gonzo into egypt. Well, this is what kind of this time, the ease ease, i mean is one of the possible scenarios. Because this is what is right there are these things meant by threatening officials in the sense and the response by each shift. Ive challenging this, this is not the possible scenario. But what seems to me is that the measure a stick and including the bone being all there are crossing seems to intention to be starving, kill the people who are and said, sorry to because us troops now. And of course, part of the students here that the defense of a 2nd knocked about which wouldnt be really a 2nd because there have been so many senses of displacement, including we shouldnt forget to the mean 1967260000 the policy and for the space to so its been a, an ongoing force displacement for that. Of course, the fear that under that it would be possibly displeased and never allowed to return even to the, to the legal and to the very day of being confined to engage. So get in, i know we talked a moment ago about what is this Strategic Thinking . Can we talk at least a bit about what is the broad a goal . Is the calculus or is the broad the goal here to try and return to a situation where you can have an occupation and extended occupation with level cost to as well as security to its reputation. To get back to that kind of scenario, is that whats being targeted . Thats exactly what this level is sort of like to leave in the sense security or the connection to being a door closing guideline the worst. And then there was, but i mean let this ok you by then does to your internet, but that sees the does q civilians, it does prove them from their lives and dont bother us and dont disease and behaviors since there is even a problem. Easy viewing. Behavioral, so were going to tell you that these, namely women, brightview was the money that made everyone. Wed be happy that by this date is said on a saturday, not the 1st by the most the way there, but its been said on 7 days. This is not enough and these cannot last for the data since were talking about changing calculus is has the calculus change for internal palestinian politics especially the p a off to the events, the recent events were seeing . Oh, most most definitely. Yes. Look, its been changing for a while because weve increasingly seen that the Palestinian Authority has lost all support, both in the west bank and the gaza strip. We are of course, seeing that more and more people recognize that there is that there needs to be resistance to military occupation. And the Palestinian Authority has done absolutely nothing to protect palestinians or to even offer an alternative. So yes, the calculation has completely changed. Now, within the mindset of palestinians, so much so that of imagine what are the best who was irrelevant before, has been made even more irrelevant. Now, just francesco, what other political options going forward, do you think of this kind of very bleak scenario . And just want to comment on and again, not without. I know that this is something that might, might sound a strong, but while there is a right to resist an oppressive regina, and the part of the students have been under a trustee in virginia. My for decades now, its also there is any parent you have to remind that were so this the model scheming a is not justified to so i would like to take the car. I mean, saturday as an example, not to go. So show francesca and. Yeah, and, and now in terms of what are the political options, i will tell you what i would recommend and been because there is nothing that is really being put on the table by the mean policy makers, other than one sided to support and, and violence. And armed are the responses to so i think that 1st of all its, its fundamental to negotiate the truths with immediate suspicion of a student is during the use of the hostages, but also the other person to the policy and so on to and so on. Could on you, weve gone through the so many times, havent we in conflicts, and i like stones all over this is just the 1st step. Isnt just the 1st step. The 2nd, these reinforcing to monetary an aide and then forming the Un Task Force to ensure, im sorry to monitor to us, but also to ensure it protects the presence of the, of the students and others on the ground. Because and again, this has always been to decide the, this is seen the short term in the longer term. I mean, the medium term. What does need to be the device is a com the to him, to be able to patients. But not in any years. It is to be stuff it needs to start to be discussed now and not in visa gene, the realization of productivity and Self Determination. And, you know, once the piece process is a cheap because this is like kicking the cutting the air, frankly. All right, this country more, im sure that we could discuss what i have to leave it there for now. Lets try and call guess francesca and vanessa deanna, bhutto and gideon levy and thank you to for watching. You can visit the show again, any time by heading over to our website. Ill just 0. Dont com for further discussion. Go to our facebook page. Thats facebook dot com, forward slash a j inside story can also join the conversation on x, formerly known as twist. Though you might remember handle that or is that a j inside story from the sam is a that on the whole team here for now. The, in the system youve been coming to add any International Anti corruption excellence award. Nominate your hero. Now. The now the day of heavy bombardment in, gauze, or is this route pounds the enclave following saturday is attacked by im us the by this i mean say them this is ill just say a live from dell. Ha. You own going coverage of the gods. A war hospitals in gauze are all overwhelms at least 1055 kind of experience of being