Governors of detroit to 3 of those what it just went to missile struck residential areas. While that comes a day after rush, it was accuse of time we got one of his worst attacks on ukraine since the war began. 52 people from one village were killed at the best sound strike slave the throbbing principle from the sea. Were here at the sight of that attack that killed dozens of people. The village of photos has a population of around 330 people. The level of death here means that a 6th of this village was wiped out in an instant. They were attending a Memorial Service for a soldier from this village who had died and was buried somewhere else being brought home that homecoming, turned into a massacre on a massive scale. And we are here at the side of the missile strike. Our guided russian is gone. The missile struck at this location of 51 palestinians have enjoy that. They started off with us by the forces of the town of hawaii the occupied westbank. Is there any forces on a Positive Side take counsel the funeral of a 19 year old palestinian killed during rates on thursday. The funeral has been held at least 3 in the city of homes for the victims of an attack on the military academy. At least 89 people were killed as a Graduation Ceremony on thursday. 277 people were injured in the attack. This, the ball peace prize has been awarded to radiate. The active is not a guess, but a shes currently subbing multiple jail sentences into her on about taking table than 30 years in prison. But theyre all in size. The west has awarded behind the days her actions against is National Security for one of those stories including bull, and ive got somebody on a website that al jazeera dot com is updated throughout the day. Ill be back, but these are adjusted to hoffmans time, but next time ill just say right, is judy, itd be and scripted to stay with us. So many politicians want to be the republican partys candidate for the any stand, a chance it gets donald trump, if our planet is burning and were running out of time, why arent we doing more to deal with Climate Change . Our american politics just getting into it screen for most americans because it can look you as part of the bottom line. The are highly corporate tips patients. And if youre going to be a corporate of species, you calling to be picking each other up and stress each other on the side. Youre gonna figure out other ways of working out, you know, how were going to corporate your way. My name is will store. Im a journalist and also in my latest book, despite escape, i examine how the human does offer recognition has help shape our existence. And what happens when suspect is games that terribly wrong when we thinking about comparing Human Behavior to what we see and of the species where we find the most profound similarities is not actually in all cases, living relatives nicolo re, honey, im an evolutionary biologists and also im fascinated by what we humans have in common with other species and what it is that sets us apart the thing is that correct . So you told a bit about people. He, for example, become neo nazis or they during coats. What is it about these people that makes them start to believe crazy things . Well, i think thats a brute, honest as i is that the brand isnt particularly interested in the true. So you start to be interested in the accuracy in how the world works, right . More its nice. Who do i have to be what i have to believe . Who do i have to come to corporate with these people and again, status, you know, within the, in the heretic. So rushed by the idea of the brightness the here i make errors, you know, if we got a psychologically healthy brain, im just telling a story. You know, a story about how we write about the things we believe is. So is and, and we tend to believe facts, any of the comments that flat to that kind of hero here, i making narrative. And at any facts we come across in the world that contradicts it. And the brain is very good, right . You know, deflecting it and finding ways to kind of onto mine it. Yeah. So, so yeah that i on i think thats kind of kind of kind of coming into one of us and even really, really smart people, the easiest. So in an inherit 6, i spend some time with david irving who was, you know, ones seen as a, you know, on test the historian of the 2nd world war. And, you know, started to believe that hitler was, in his words, a friend of the jews. Um, so it is, so you know, this, the, these are, these kind of problems can impact the very smallest kind of people among us. But you know, the other side is that people do become kind of mentally unwell, paranoid, and i was wondering if you could speak to kind of how power no, i kind of impacts people and kind of builds that kind of conspiratorial thinking. Yeah. Say, well power, no error is basically the belief that something bad will happen and somebody else intends for it to happen. And so we know that people who are more paranoid, more likely to endorse conspiracy theories, specifically ones that are about them, that pertain to something thats going to happen to me, not just a society. And it can be really pervasive is really quite common in the general population is no power, no air and conspiracy thinking and not just things that people who have a Mental Health disorder which would experience. But in fact, all of us can be power. No, hes caught way you know, i dont know ever is a normal part of the functioning human psychology. Like a super interesting to me. So in a way that when youre speaking to people who may be, have a slightly conspiratorial mindset. Do you find it difficult to gain access to your, to people, to speak to them in, in ways where they will talk to you freely about that belief . So is that as well . The have to be a bit county as a, as a, as a journalist and certainly when i was um, reporting on with day for the thing that was actually quite uncomfortable. So, so it, so david, the thing was, i was putting on these kind of trips to all the costs sites in, in, in eastern europe. So i went along there and kind of had to basically pretend that i was a, essentially in the notes. He says, i was with all these people who, you know, who will have the course to know as were in a concentration camp for one points. And they were kind of questioning, why is that, that, why is that there . And it was, is it . So it was extremely uncomfortable that is often the way in with people who have kind of break on spiritual, really minded that you have to kind of blend into them and kind of, you know, allow them to, you know, believe that you kind of understand, you know, where theyre coming from for me anyway, i think thats a much better way of understanding him than the 1st adversarial model of what you would just attacking people shouting out because they, they, they kind of back away. Did you find in the, in that you were starting to find points of Common Ground or did they still remain quite aliens . You even know that . I mean, its difficult, isnt it, that you were interacting with people on a personal level . No points of Common Ground but, but certainly the empathy, the thing to us, what was extraordinary on that trip was the number of the men on that trip whose parents had forward. So was 5, is that force in the 2nd multiple with announces and it was the on, on the final evening of the trip. There was a, a viewing of the film down full, which is hyper realistic movie about the last days. And they hit this bunker at the end of the bowl. And there was a guy that who was australian german who didnt want to watch the movie. Because his father was in the bunker was hitler. And he found it too upsetting to watch, and suddenly you understand that these are people who love the moms and dads, and the moms, and thats what announces. And so its, so theyre kind of a lifes work, or my son has been to deny the story of reality, which is the holocaust happened to the nazi district with will folks. So that was a real live old moment from the and if theres a, there was a points of Companies Trust in that in that sense. Yeah, no, certainly a government different if im just understanding like yeah, like the same people as, as, as people and yes, that beliefs. Yeah. The and then i guess another question that i, that i have about that is the extent to which theres, theres a conspiratorial narrative. So those tendencies to adult, those so radical world views are linked to status. How can we understand that theres in terms of losses in gains in states as well . I mean, is it says, because actually because it is the groups of state dis, games in the states, can write that down to fax movements and 9 to be the full manufacturer. This in this particular interview, a sheet she, she, she came across the Facebook Group and announced itself, is that vaccine hesitant . And was immediately surrounded by people saying, oh, well, look at this and look at this and look at this. And she felt what she did, she felt accepted. She, she was a young, im seems to be mother. She was 18 years old. She had my strong minded. We made an issue as surrounded by these. She wrote sounding strong minded women and she, she wanted to get their approval. So she started going out there and arguing with that, causing the all doing with the adults, of course not getting a child backs and i said you took it, it shouldnt do that initially. So its, its an easy access, but its not how she kind state is, and the more you can state is the more you want to go out there and, and, and practice the belief. And i think thats, that for me, thats what, thats the re dangerous mechanism in a lot of these groups. Yeah, and i think thats even a Research Showing that, for example, a conspiracy mindset or a spouse in conspiracy theories for some people at least, is driven by a desire to be unique, a desire to show that you are an individual think you do you and research and all that kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. But a bit equally is also about cooperation within the group. Is a very powerful effect that we, we tend to, i believe the thing is that the high status people in all groups believe is that part of what you said as part of a corporation mechanism, or is that more about status . No. The so part of how we think the culture spreads and humans is because people are more likely to coffee high status individuals and, you know, thinking back to the, the, the power, no air and conspiracy thing topics. We know that if you feel low spaces, for example, of being either being low status in the society or maybe being part of the marginalized Ethnic Minority Group or things like this can also be real triggers for people to experience. Look from that levels of paranoid for that. So when we think about how we see ourselves in some respects, and so youve talked about in your book, for example, is sophie about the rise of individualism and particularly in in the west. And the gnosticism that accompanies that, why does that come from . Where is that taking us . Yes. So, so theres lots of ideas that way why weston is, on average, more individualistic than the people in our thoughts of the world. And you know, theres a, theres a fascinating theory or the geography of thoughts about how the physical landscape ends up impacting how we think in the seats a world. And so is this one, it is that one of the i so the idea is there are about why western individual doesnt seem to begin an ancient greece. And the serious that, that, that the, it was, the landscape was a place where group in depth is what really possible. Like if you go to china now, low hills. So im great for farming a site. So its a big group. Corporate farming in depth is very nice increase. That was impossible because most of the terrible for farming the so it isnt good enough and it was around it. I think a 1000 individual city states increase to sending to see rocky islands. So is it so in order to get along and get ahead, kind of have to be a bit more of a sales staff, so you have to be somebody that was the pizza or you know, attending a few only only of trees and youll gardens make oil so it says select trace, this kind of individualistic id and a self way in order to survive, to get them engaged. You get to kind of push yourself kind of fluids. And of course, very, you know, fascinating, maybe an ancient greeks. We see things like the gnosticism, messy, know, im nauseous, as you kind of had enough with his image. You get, you know, great sports and competitions. You get the idea of self esteem. You get the idea of an education. So is that so, so yeah, you know, i is it kind of fascinating kind of theory, you know, hes not binary, but the weston emphasis on me, me, me, me, me comes from the physical landscape of a, of ancient greece. And i was wondering, so whether you felt no kind of kind of this kind of individually of how that impacts corporation or corporate, hes nature in the west. Theres been a bunch of work done by people like jo, henrich and, and people at that that have actually seen individualism through a different lens in some ways by looking at how you can understand individual lives in as being a reduction in the strengths of family ties so essentially youre, youre about, you know, focusing less on your immediate family, immediate friends, and you kind of broadening that Social Circle out and making your own links. And your obligations are not actually so much within that tight, smooth circle. But you feeling much more impartial and sense of obligation to pretty much everybody. Right. So i think this, this idea that individualism in some ways can help us to explain the rise of large scale corporation, our willingness to cooperate with strangers. That might also come, you know, with the, with the 5 products of being actually slightly less concerned with nepotism will help Single Family health and girlfriends and things like that. Do you relate to that sort of description . Yeah, i mean i, shes so rice about that, that the id or in, in the state to scott and the idea that actually, you know, west individual is about cooperating not with the media group with the media family. Its kind of breaking those traditional ties. And then its go freight with, with, with, with people outside our group and see them know as members of groups as such as individuals is youll use those because youre a positive and youre right, right . Yeah. Oh yeah, yes, sophie was, was much more about how our kind of me focused west himself. Seems to have made us more perfectionistic. Right. And there was so for a large study which looked at levels of rates of perfectionism in the west, in canada, the us and the you guys missed the ninetys. And since, you know, sometimes to and isnt, isnt the liberalism that kind of fight to reagan revolution that will points that was to increase competition wherever we could find that to get rid of the big states to get rid of the bank to, you know, to, to regulation and get rid of it as many rules as possible and to make everybody more competitive and how the extraordinary kind of effect that had on but the sense of the west. And so we went from screw them out in the sixtys degree, just good in, in just twins. It is, its quite extraordinary how we changed when once the economy changed and how the rules of how we supposed to get to the one gets a heads kind of have to change. But that you know that there was a significant downsize to that, i think. And this rise in perfectionism is potentially particularly worrying because with protectionism becomes to comes things like, you know, eating disorder, steroid abuse, and men self home and you know, suicidal thinking. Im oh, i was wondering if you, you felt that, you know, with that with your kind of expertise in the amazing human heart corporation. How we could harness our kind of genius for cooperation in the future to kind of make the world a bit happier, more successful. You know, on the one hand, our ability to widen our Social Circles and to cooperate at more global scales with other people is really undoubtedly the reason that we managed to, you know, leave the environment some, which humans evolved and to eventually colonize the globe. And so, you know, corporate thing outside of our immediate family is a major part of human success story. But its also the reason that we are now massively is a populating globe. And that, you know, it would be using this natural resources. And so its hard to say actually, whether our tendency to scale up that corporation in our co op for suv ability is ultimately our, you know, is it our winning safe a power or is it our and doing, i dont know, do you, what do you think i think most often most is the that we are hardly corporate if we tend to corporate mostly within our own groups. And i think thats perhaps the hard, the hard problems that crack for humans. Because we, because we are inevitably group ish, its very intuitive to us to corporate, local scales. And you know, you have words like nepotism corruption, bribery, we didnt think of those necessarily as being corporation. But those are real examples of corporation. The high political but generate society costs. And i think the big question for us is how we can corporate to generate Global Benefits and not just global costs. And with that, i think we should allow for some q and a from the audience. My question, were spending time to make people go these cnbc already specially with regard to axis that they are not real. Im you. So how do you go about calculating those theories . You know what d g john age . That is a really important question actually. Essentially what youre talking about is changing peoples minds, and thats a really difficult thing to do. In particular, when people have have views that are quite entrenched and when repeating to them your own view can in some ways make that room view become more solidified. There is some what from baverly kinematics that suggests that one effective way to change peoples minds. For example, in the context of a Conspiracy Theory or see or Something Like that, is rather than attempting to do on past people with reasons why the wrong can be simply to ask them questions about why they believe the thing they do. And to some extent to undermine some peoples confidence in, in the foundations upon which those beliefs can be built. Yeah, i think thats, thats it, right. I mean, i mean i, i think the, the other opportunity perhaps is the people are members of lots of different groups at once. Those different stages games at once. And i think one of the things we, we dont do enough of is looking at who has these beliefs and what else do they believe if youre an american on to back . So theres a potentially high probability of your patch, realty person, you love america. And so, you know, rather than trying to convince him to that, but this specific beliefs about um and vaccines are wrong, you can tell a story potentially about how not taking the vaccine as an unpatriotic act. Because america and economy is being kept behind your letting america down by, by buying find reading to be vaccinated. So thats just one example i think of, of where we can actually exploit the fact that people have in 10. So not really realize it, but that they often lives by a number of contradicting kind of values and we can use it kind of a separate value set. Is that a story that might challenge the kind of embedded unhelpful beliefs . Hi, im the, im the prophecy. Sort of just waiting for both of us do so, but my question is, what place do those various signatories have in the classroom . As a sure does each uh for doing good stairs. There is also less than i mean its been increasingly important. Part of education, isnt it . I mean, one before the end, snapped conspiracy theorists what tended to be existing rather isolated sections of society and its much more feasible now for people to connect with people who share are considered a similar conspiracy mindset for them. And for that to give this mindset created and say, i think understanding that, that, that, that they think goes on and people do hope that different world views and how they come to hold those world views is, is a really important part of understanding how to navigate a, you know, the social media, well, what, what do you, what do you think . Well, i kind of very strongly believes that they should, we should broadly teach young people. This is the human mind. This is how it works. And these are the things that a often gets wrong and in a conspiratorial belief in these very much of you know, a predictable kind of faster if the story is heading. Brian and when that one aspect to the stores in brighton is it, its costly making these cause and effect connections. Awesome. Where there shouldnt be cause and effect connections is these causes and effects everywhere. When i was doing my research with the harris 61 next button, psychosis gave me something of what happens when somebody to come psychotic, you know, mentally ill. And they said, you know, like, say you walking down the, the street and 3 right . Cause go past it. Once and let them i think i, it was 3 causes, discussed that when i read on the pests i havent and i werent read on depends until you say. So the story st. Brian is kind of going haywire and connecting dots. They shouldnt be connected. And this is exactly what we see in conspiracy theories and sites. So i, you know, i think its very important to teach young people some of this stuff. And just to say, look, you know, your brain isnt this amazing reality reading machine. Its a story, etc. And sometimes i story, is it going to be wrong . And heres how you can try and work out whether the story that your brain is getting a bit haywire. Hi, my name is becky. I want to know what you think about what coaches are good at cook collaboration and how can we, in schools, or you know, new lives, increase collaboration to teach us to be more collaborative with each other. So heres an example of to kind of contrasting cultures and the status perspective. So how can i write that in the states give 1st one is the, is the company and wrong, which is famous due by the most corrupt companies that ever existed. So in, in rome they had, they had a culture, they had a significant, they run can young system. Whereby i think every year that they would say in a room and go through all of the people with that company and to find them and say, heres the top. I think it was 15 percent. Is the boss and 15 percent it needs the middle to 50 percent promoted middle scad, bottom 5. And that is a terrible culture. You know, we will need stages. We will need to feel the values. And if, and if we, if we have a culture in which they disease, a very hard to come by, well start jealous a start, jealousy, defending it and stop. So, you know, stop being a top sick and im present to other people and defensive and so on. And b, as in the case of ever become corrupt because state is so hard to come by, the stop cutting, cooling is the opposite of that is a global cheap fit. All most cult go cross fit. Im not crossed with uh, actually fed across state is famously 2 things. One is kind of Healthy People who got into a group, of course they lived across that. And so it was incredibly successful the difference because across the additional gym it is a community. I mean, in not community state, this is freely given. Everyones cheering. You all, and everyone is congratulating you. Theres not a pressure for you to complete this one challenges everyones got to complete, its up to you. Its adapted to your kind of strings. So the best couch was wondering which states does not have to come by, and its freely given by the people. How guys my name is brett and im from west london. And in regards to conspiracy theories, weve obviously seen the caps arrives in the us about collation where people done things to, to conspiracy theories. All i havent seen for my life time. So my question to you is kind of behavior and hop and that was why, for example, in the u. K. If know what was the difference between these 2 societies, the that makes it possible. It was late. When i interviewed richard this bit, who was one of the great goats of this idea, irving, you know, it wasnt individually the study of that. He said basically, and, you know, the end, we get more and more individualistic as you go across kind of western europe. You know, u k is really individualistic and then americas really individualistic and then it gets more, more into individualistic affinity for into the Pacific Ocean is by waiting press it. And i think thats why sometimes in here we look, a site is going to america, like they kind of crazy and often the craziness. But what were seeing is craigslist is, is they really individualistic. And i think thats certainly true in the us and, and that creates some of that kind of move while the behavior is. But of course, the equally is tribal, you know, easy is about, you know, that all of that stuff is the conspiratorial thinking. The queue in on people, you know, thats a try, but its a state escape and this stuff is universal. You know, we, you know, we will kind of thing. I liked it to, to it, to a certain degree. And so that they certainly no reason to why we couldnt at some point, you know, things are you on getting was see stuff like that happening in the u. K. He says gleefully, well about that he loves to look into today. I loved reading the social and things and its been such an honor to kind of finally meet you and get to kind of grill you in on the stuff i thought most frustrating in that book. And i guess, you know, one of the takeaways ive got from our conversations days that we really do have a genius, the corporation as, as the, as a human animal. And if we can, you know, if we, if we can kind of harness that even more then theres no reason why the future shouldnt be bright for us be, shes, yeah, likewise, i read are massively enjoyed reading the states game and its been great to chat about that in detail today, and to think about the ways that this consent for all those 3 kinds of states us that you took that in the book, just pen me every aspect of our lives, the, the beginning of the time damage to post. Gosh, it has to be like, why is enough that could be wiped out like wire, tens of thousands of people dying in western europe with most sophisticated Public Health care systems. I just have always found borders to be completely violent things. Nobody leaves homeless homeless and lots of the sharp people dont just flee unless theres something really difficult. When i see culture as really driven apart rent asunder by these arguments about slavery, imperialism, colonialism. Im like, there is an easier way the the, we know whats happening in our region. We know how to get to places that others can know as far as, instead of going on the way that you tell the story is what can make a difference. I have the right, the boy caught anyone i want to end. The state has no business getting involved in that gods chosen to bless us because we protect israel. Im going to continue to do on the state level. All that i cant support the, the new 3 part series excludes the implications of us and people who called lowest for freedom of speech and 1st amendment, frank 5 more about the issue, whatever im looking for some i think talked to in quote, on which is 0543 p mot upfront takes on the big issue. This isnt a one off you. Something about a systemic issue here. Black lives dont really matter in the police for unflinching questions is war with one to 10 minute rigorous debate . Because of lots of medical treatments, challenging conventional was the fact that people are starting to get angry about this is in itself a sign of progress. Join me more for me on hills upfront one out 0. The or the calypso rama watching the news on last. My headquarters here in the hall coming up in the next 60 minutes. A 10 year old boy is the latest casualty of the new wave of russian strikes that have hit ukraines car key, reach a full service move micros, make their way across the mediterranean, searching for a better life. The leaders wrap up a meeting on how to cut that rising numbers some same degree