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This is out of there. These are top stories, a new wave of strikes, this targets at the ukranian city of car keys. The crane says a child has been killed. It comes a day off to rest, who was accused of carrying out one of its west attacks on ukraine since and will began in 52. 00 people from one village were killed in a missile strike saying this is robbie is in concave. Were here in the center of the main city of car to you, one of 2 impact points from Russian Missile strikes that happened in the Early Morning hours just a few hours earlier today. Let me show you exactly where this impact point is. Its a little loud here. Well try to show you what happens. This is the crater that was left behind by one of the strikes. Investigators had been inside. They had been digging through the rubble, looking for any evidence of exactly what happens. This crater is about 4 meters. These 10 meters wide and crews have been working for your for the last few hours, trying to pick up parts to try to collect evidence. As to exactly what happened. A funeral has been held in this area in the city of homes for the victims of an attack on a military academy. These 89 people were killed at a Graduation Ceremony on thursday. The Syrian Government has announced 3 days of morning european leaders, musing and spain on turning the attention to the confidence, migration crisis, race and months have seen an up 10 and arrivals of refugees on my grades. Laid is also considering future expansion of the us president jo bought it and has improved the construction of new section affordable in southern texas. The announcement came during the visit 56 year state Anthony Lincoln to mexico city to discuss security issues. The mexican president on the manual lopez open the door has criticized to make a a. Okay, does it headlines studio be on scripted coming up next . Liberians are heading to the polls to elect the president. The members of the house of representatives. Can george, we a secure a 2nd president ial term despite height, unemployment. Thats accusations of corruption or with the country felt for change. Liberias elections, special coverage on the jersey to the for highly corporate tips patients. And if youre going to be a corporate of species, you contradict each other and stress each other on the side. Youre gonna figure out other ways of working out. You know how were going to corporate it either way, my name is will store. Im a journalist and also in my latest book, despite escape, i examine how the human does offer recognition has help shape our existence. And what happens when suspect escapes that terribly wrong . When we thinking about comparing Human Behavior to what we see in other species, where we find the most profound similarities is not actually in all cases, living relatives nicolo re, honey, im an evolutionary biologist. And also im fascinated by what we humans have in common with other species. And what it is that sets us apart the thing is that correct . So youve talked a bit about people. He for example, become neo nazis. Are they doing coats . What is it about these people that makes them start to believe crazy things . Well, i think thats a brute, honest as i is that the brand isnt particularly interested in the true. So you start to be interested in the accuracy in how the world works, right . Whats nice, whom do i have to be what i have to believe . Who do i have to come to corporate with these people and to gain status, you know, within the, in the heritage. So i respect the idea of the brightness the here i make here is, you know, if we got a psychologically healthy brain, im just telling a story, you know, a story about how we write about the things we believe is. So is, and we tend to believe facts, any of the comments that fly to that kind of hero. He wrote making narrative and at any fax we come across in the world that contradicts it. And the brain is very good hack, right . You know, deflecting it and finding ways to kind of undermined it. Yeah. So, so yeah, that i, i think thats kind of kind of kind of coming into one of us and even really, really smart people. I mean, shes so in, in, in the air at 6 i spend some time with david irving who was, you know, ones seen as a, you know, on test the historian of the 2nd world war. And you know, the started to believe that hitler was, in his words, a friend of the jews. Im so sorry, you know, this, the, the, these are, these kind of problems can impact the very smallest kind of people among us. But you know, the other side is that people do become kind of mentally unwell, paranoid, and i was wondering if you could speak to kind of how paranoid kind of impacts people and kind of builds that kind of conspiratorial thinking. Yeah, say, well, power, no error is basically the belief that something bad will happen and somebody else intends for it to happen. And so we know that people who are more paranoid, more likely to endorse conspiracy theories, specifically ones that are about them, that pertain to something thats going to happen to me, not just to society. And it can be really pervasive. Its really quite common in the general population is no power, no air and conspiracy thinking and not just things that people who have a Mental Health disorder which would experience. But in fact, all of us can be power. No, hes caught way. You know, i dont know as a normal part of the functioning human psychology. Like a super interesting to me. So in a way that when youre speaking to people who may be high of a slightly conspiratorial mindset, do you find it difficult to gain access to your, to people, to speak to them in, in ways where they will talk to you freely about that belief. So is that as well the have to be a bit county as a, as a, as a jet less than certainly when i was reporting on with day for the thing that was actually quite uncomfortable. So so, so david, the thing was, i was putting on these kind of trips to all the costs sites in, in, in eastern europe. So i went along there and kind of had to basically pretend that i was a, if i should be in the notes. He says, i was with all these people who, you know, who has the course to know as we were in a concentration camp for one points. And they were kind of questioning why is that, that, why is that there . And it was it. So it was extremely uncomfortable that is often the way in with people who have kind of very come spiritual, really minded that you have to kind of blend into them and kind of, you know, allow them to, you know, believe that you kind of understand, you know, where theyre coming from for me anyway, i think thats a much better way of understanding him than the 1st adversarial model of what youre just attacking people shouting out because they, they, they kind of back away. Did you find in the end that you were starting to find points of Common Ground or did they still remain quite aliens . You even the, i mean its difficult, isnt it, that you were interacting with people on a personal level . No points of Common Ground but, but certainly the empathy, the thing that i thought was extraordinary on that trip was the number of the men on that trip, whose parents had fords was 5. Is that force in the 2nd multiple with announces and it was the on, on the final evening of the trip. There was a, a viewing of the film down full, which is hyper realistic movie about the last days. And they hit this bunker at the end of the bowl. And there was a guy that who was australian german who didnt want to watch the movie. Because his father was in the bunker was hitler. And he found it too upsetting to watch, and suddenly you understand that these are people who love the moms and dads, and the moms, and thats what announces. And so its, so theyre kind of a lifes work, or my son has been to deny the story of reality, which is the holocaust happened to the nazi district with will folks. So that was a real live old moment from the and if theres a, there was a points of common interest in the, in the, in that sense. Yeah. No, certainly a government depended on just understanding like yeah, like the same people as, as, as people and yes, that believes, yeah. The, and then, i guess another question that i, that i have about that is the extent to which theres, theres a conspiratorial narrative. So those tendencies to adult, those so radical world views are linked to status. How can we understand that theres in terms of losses in games in status . Well, i mean, is it says because theres a because it is the groups of state dis, games in the states game, right . That the antivirus movements and i, its a beautiful man to fax a list in this particular interview, a sheet she, she, she came across the Facebook Group and announced itself, is that vaccine hesitant . And was immediately surrounded by people saying, oh well, look at this and look at this and look at this. And she felt what she did. She felt accepted. She, she was a young, im seems to be mother. She was 18 years old. She had my strong minded, we made an issue as surrounded by these heroic sounding strong minded women and she, she wanted to get their approval. So she started going out there and arguing with that, causing the all doing with the adults. Of course not getting a child backs nice if you took it, it shouldnt do that initially. So its, its an easy access, but its not who she kind state is and the more you can state is the more you want to go out there and, and, and practice the belief. And i think thats, that for me, thats what, thats the re dangerous mechanism in a lot of these groups. Yeah, and i think thats even a Research Showing that, for example, a conspiracy mindset or a spouse in conspiracy theories for some people at least, is driven by a desire to be unique, a desire to show that you are an individual think you do you and research and all that kind of thing. Yeah, absolutely. But a bit increase also about cooperation within the group is a very powerful effect that we, we tend to, i believe the thing is that the high status people in all groups believe is that part of what you said as part of a corporation mechanism or is that more about status . No the so part of how we think the culture spreads and humans is because people are more likely to coffee high status individuals and you know, thinking back to the, the, the power, no air and conspiracy thing. Topics. We know that if you feel low spaces, for example, being either being low status in society or maybe being part of the marginalized Ethnic Minority Group or things like this can also be real triggers for people to experience. Look from that levels of paranoid for that. So when we think about how we see ourselves in some respects, and so youve talked about in your book, for example, is sophie about the rise of individualism and particularly in in the west. And the gnosticism that accompanies that. Why does that come from . Where is that taking us . Yes. So, so theres lots of ideas that way, you know why weston is on average more individualistic than the people in our thoughts of the world. And you know, theres a, theres a fascinating theory or the geography of thoughts about how the physical landscape ends up impacting how we think in the seats a world. And so it is what it is that one of the i so the idea is there are about why western individual doesnt seem to begin an ancient greece. And the serious that, that, that the, it was, the landscape was a place where group in depth is what really possible. Like if you go to china now, low hills. So im great for farming a site. So its a big group. Corporate farming in depth is very nice increase. That wasnt possible because its most of the terrible for farming the so it isnt good enough and it was around it. I think a 1000 individual city states im close to sending to see rocky islands. So is it so in order to get along and get ahead, kind of have to be a bit more of a sales staff, so you have to be somebody that was the pizza or you know, attending a few only only of trees and youll gardens make oil so it says select trace, this kind of individualistic id and a self way in order to survive, to get them engaged. You get to kind of push yourself kind of fluids. And of course, very, you know, fascinating, maybe an ancient greeks. We see things like the gnosticism missing and im nauseous as you kind of had enough with his image and you get, you know, great sports and competitions. You get the idea of self esteem. You get the idea of an education. So it is so, so yeah, you know, i is it kind of fascinating kind of theory, you know, hes not binary, but the western emphasis on me, me, me, me, me comes from the physical landscape of a, of ancient greece. And i was wondering, so whether you felt, you know, kind of kind of this kind of individually of how that impacts corporation or corporate. Hes nature in the west. Theres been a bunch of work done by people like jo, henrich and, and people that, that, that have actually seen individualism through a different lens in some ways, by looking at how you can understand individual lives in as being a reduction in the strengths of family ties so essentially youre, youre about, you know, focusing less on your immediate family, immediate friends, and you kind of broadening that Social Circle out and making your own links and your obligations and not actually so much with a not tight, smooth circle, but you feeling much more impartial, and sense of obligation to pretty much everybody. Right. So i think this, this idea that individualism in some ways can help us to explain the rise of large scale corporation, our willingness to cooperate with strangers. That might also come, you know, with the, with the 5 products of being actually slightly less concerned with nepotism will help Single Family health and girlfriends and things like that. Do you relate to that sort of description . Yeah, i mean i, shes so rice about that, that the id or in, in the state to scan the idea that actually, you know, west individually is about cooperating, not with the Immediate Group with immediate family. Its kind of breaking those traditional ties and learnings go freight with, with, with, with people outside our group and see them know as members of groups as such as individuals is youll use wasnt because youre a positive and youre right. Right. Yeah. Oh yeah, yes, sophie was, was much more about how our kind of me focused west himself. Seems to have made us more perfectionistic. Right. And there was a super large study which looked at levels of rates of perfectionism in the west, in canada, the us and the you guys missed the ninetys. And since, you know, sometimes to and isnt, isnt the liberalism that kind of fight to reagan revolution that will points that was to increase competition wherever we could find that to get rid of the big states, to get rid of bank to, you know, to, to regulation get rid of it as many rules as possible, and so make everybody more competitive and how the extraordinary kind of effect that had on but the sense of the west. And so we went from screw them out in the sixtys degree just good in, in just twins. It is, its quite extraordinary how we changed when once the economy changed and how the rules of how we supposed to get to the one gets a heads kind of have to change. But that you know that there was a significant downsize to that, i think. And this rise in perfectionism is potentially particularly worrying because with protectionism becomes to comes things like, you know, eating disorder, steroid abuse, and men self home and you know, suicidal thinking. Im oh, i was wondering if you, you felt that, you know, with that with your kind of expertise in the amazing human heart corporation. How we could harness our kind of genius for cooperation in the future to kind of make the world a bit happier, more successful. You know, on the one hand, our ability to widen our Social Circles and to cooperate at more global scales with other people is really and doubted. Lee, the reason that we managed to, you know, leave the environment some which humans evolved. And to eventually colonize the globe. And so, you know, cooperating outside of our immediate family is a major part of a human success story. But its also the reason that we are now massively is a, populating the globe. And that, you know, it would be using this natural resources. And so its hard to say actually, whether our tendency to scale up that corporation and our co op for suv ability is ultimately our, you know, is it our winning safe or power, or is it our undoing . I dont know. The, what do you think . I think most often most is the that we are highly corporate if we tend to corporate mostly within our own groups. And i think thats perhaps the hot, the hard appropriate is a crack for humans because we, because we are inevitably group ish, is very intuitive to us to corporate, local scales. And you know, you have with like, nepotism corruption, bribery, we didnt think of those necessarily as being corporation. But those are real examples of corporation to a high political, but generate society costs. And i think the big question for us is how we can corporate to generate Global Benefits and not just global costs. And with that, i think we should allow for some q and a from nutrients. My question, were spending time to make people go these of Conspiracy Theory specially with regard to axis that they are not real. Im you. So how do you go about calculating those theory . That would be john age. That is a really important question actually. Essentially what youre talking about is changing peoples minds, and thats a really difficult thing to do. In particular, when people have have views that are quite entrenched and when repeating to them your own view can in some ways make their own view become more um, solidified. There is some what from baverly comics that suggests that one effective way to change peoples minds. For example, in the context of a Conspiracy Theory or an 8 or Something Like that, is rather than attempting to do on vast people with reasons why the wrong can be simply to ask them questions about why they believe the thing they do. And to some extent to undermine some peoples confidence in, in the foundations upon which those beliefs can be built. Yeah, i think thats, thats it, right. I mean, i mean i, i think the, the other opportunity perhaps is that people are members of lots of different groups that once those different stages games at once. And i think one of the things we, we dont do enough of is looking at who has these beliefs and what else do they believe if youre an american on to back . So theres a potentially high probability of your patch off the bus. And you love america. And so, you know, rather than trying to convince them to that, but this specific belief stuff out and im at vaccines are wrong. You can tell the story potentially about how not taking the vaccine as an unpatriotic act. Because america and the economy is keep being kept behind your letting america down, bye, bye bye and find reason to be vaccinated. So thats just one example i think of, of where we can actually exploit the fact that people have been 10. So not really realize it, but that they often lives by a number of contradicting kind of values. And we can use that kind of a separate value set. Is that a story that might challenge the kind of embedded unhelpful beliefs a hi, im the, im the soul of just waiting to see. So my question is what players do cause very sick daily. How in the classroom as they should, as each uh, pretty good, very small. So lessons. I mean, its been increasingly important. Part of education, isnt it . I mean, one before the internet, conspiracy theorists what tended to be existing, raw, the isolated sections of society and its much more feasible now for people to connect with people who share are considered a similar conspiracy mindset for them. And for that to give this mindset created and say, i think understanding that, that, that, that they think goes on and let people do hope that different world views and how they come to hold those world views is, is a really important part of understanding how to navigate a, you know, the social media, well, what, what do you, what do you find . Well, i kind of very strongly believe that they should, we should broadly teach young people. This is the human mind fitness, how it works. And these are the things that a often gets wrong and in a conspiratorial belief in these very much of, you know, a predictable kind of facet of the stories heading brian and one at one aspect to the stores in brighton. Is it, its costly making these cause and effect connections. Awesome, where there shouldnt be cause and effect connections is these causes and effects everywhere. So when i was doing my research with the harris 61 next button, psychosis gave me something of what happens when somebody becomes psychotic, you know mentally ill. And they said, you know, like, so you walking down the, the street and 3 right, cause go past it. Once and let them, i think it was 3 causes discussed that im way more, you know, read on dependent they havent and i werent read on depends on so you say, so the story st. Brian is kind of going haywire and connecting dots. They shouldnt be connected, and this is exactly what we see in conspiracy theories. And so is it. So i, you know, i think its very important to teach young people some of this stuff and just to say, look, you know, your brain isnt this amazing reality. Reading machine, its a story, etc. And sometimes i story. Is it going to be wrong . And heres how you can try and work out whether the story that your brain is getting a bit haywire. Hi, my name is becky. I want to know what you think about what coaches are good at cook collaboration. How can we, in schools, or you know, new lives, increase collaboration to teach us to be more collaborative with each other. So heres an example of to kind of contrasting cultures in the state to suspect to. So i can i write that and states can 1st one is the, is the company and run, which is famous. They buy the most corrupt companies that ever existed. So in, in rome they had, they had a culture, they had a significant, they run can young system. Whereby i think every year that they would see in a room and go through all of the people with that company and to find them and say, heres the top. I think it was 15 percent. Is the boss and 15 percent it needs the middle to 50 percent promoted middle scad both and 5. And that is a terrible culture. You know, we will need stages. We will need to feel the values. And if, and if we, if we have a culture in which site is very hard to come by, well start jealous a start, jealousy, defending it and stop. So you know, stop being a top sick and im present to other people and defensive and so on. And b, as in the case of ever become corrupt because state is so hard to come by, but stop cutting, cold is the opposite of that is a global cheap fit. All most cult go cross fit. Im not close with um actually, but across space famously, 2 things. One is kind of culture and people who got into a group of prospect lives across it. And so it was incredibly successful. The difference for you guys across the street, and if theres no gym, it is a community, i mean, in not community state, this is freely given. Everyones cheering. You all and everyone is congratulating you. Theres no pressure for you to complete this one challenges. Everyones got to complete, its up to you, its adapted to your kind of strength. So the best culture is one in which states does not have to come by. And its freely given by the people. How guys my name is brett and im from west london. And in regards to conspiracy theories, weve obviously seen the caps arrives in the us, a bass collation where people done things to, to conspiracy theories. The islands seem for my lifetime. So my question to you is, cuz that kind of behavior and hop, and that was why i, for example, in the u. K. If know what was the difference between these 2 societies that makes it possible. Why dont they . When i interviewed richard this, but who was one of the great goats of this idea, irving, you know, it wasnt individually the study of that. He said basically, and you know, the engine, we get more and more individualistic as you go across kind of western europe. You know, u k is really individualistic and then americas really individualistic and then it gets more and more into individualistic and 74 into the Pacific Ocean is by waiting press it. And i think thats why sometimes in the year we look a site is going to america like that kind of crazy. I dont think that craziness, but what were seeing is craigslist is, is a really individualistic. And i think thats certainly true in the us and the, and the, and that creates some of that kind of move while the behavior is. But of course, the equally is tribal, you know, easy is about, you know, that all that stuff is that, that conspiratorial thinking, the queue in on people, you know, thats a try, thats a state escape, and this stuff is universal. You know, we, you know, we will kind of thing, id like to, to, to, to it, to a certain degree. And so that they certainly no reason to why we couldnt at some point, you know, things are you on getting was, lets see, stuff like that happening in the u. K. He says gleefully, well, ive absolutely loved talking to you today. I loved reading the social in things and its been such an audit to kind of finding meet you and get to kind of grill you on the stuff i thought most fascinating in that book. And i guess the, one of the takeaways ive got from our conversation today is that we really do have a genius the corporation as, as the, as a human animal. And if we can, you know, if we, if we can kind of harness that even more then theres no reason why the future shouldnt be bright for us be, shes, yeah, likewise, i read are massively enjoyed reading the state scale. And its been great to chat about that in detail today and to think about the ways that this concern for all those 3 kinds of states is that you took that in the book. Just pen me every aspect of our lives, the, the beginning of the time that makes to post. Gosh, i had some be like, why is nasa being wiped out . Like why are tens of thousands of people dying in western europe with most sophisticated Public Health care systems . I just have always found borders to be completely violent things. Nobody leaves homeless homeless and lots of the sharp people dont just flee unless theres something really difficult. When i see culture as really driven a part rent asunder by these arguments about slavery, imperialism, colonialism. Im like, there is an easier way, the stories of hope and inspiration show a document to ease from around the world that celebrates culture and resilience in the times of time on the phone and to see some more. Yeah. When i get the rain, snow tends to be nice, my kids will be assisting in moscow finish, last humble and generous on life. Jennings, i believe i have to people, and i can be the only person beneficial would be to have is to me a limited middle winning bucksta, joshua blue. I cheat on the importance of faith and shame, success. I believe in the time ive been given. And i have to use a Generation School on tuesday or in a world where the news never ends. Understanding whats behind the headlines is more important than ever. It takes listening to the people behind the news and to the journalist for reporting their stories except intimacy that makes every International Story local at heart. Im only give you that host of the take a daily news podcast powered by the local reporting of algebra. Find us where ever you get your pod cast. The timeline site. This is out. Is there a live from the were going to take you straight to also, you can see that through that, thats where the a person is going to come out in a moment and announce who the Nobel Peace Prize is. Go to go to for this yet 2023 and the wind is cost. Always a very tight a. Got it secret until will be announcement. Okay, lets have a lesson in the same degree

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