Which if im going to show United Nations this morning, the number of people fling the go into a car back could go past 100000. A media says about 2 thirds investor to come millions of left the region more than a week of to advise you on to control in a swift military defensive. You as President Joe Biden is staying in washington dc over the weekend to try and have a its a possible federal government shut down. Congress needs to agree on a new funding bill by the end of this month. If not, thousands of federal employees will be sent home. Dianne feinstein, the longest serving female member of the us senate has died at the age of 19. The california democrat was known for supporting bills on gun control and the environment should be on well was planning to retire at the end of attempts next year. Earlier this morning we lost a giant in the senate. Senator Dianne Feinstein was one of the most amazing people who ever graced the senate a level grace to the country. She had so many amazing, wonderful qualities. Wrapped up in one incredible human being. She was smart. She was strong. She was brave. She was compassionate. Often any 3 decades of mine has been charged with the 90 done to sick shooting of you as reference to picture coat. And i got to go to the local media place of leave to versus during davis. Hes admitted that he was in the car involved and drive by shooting in las vegas bags being counted dr. Parliamentary election and the Southern African kingdom of. Thats what to me. Maybe 600000. 00 votes is were rich that the cost that ballots with 59. 00 seats in the countries low house of parliament up for grabs. And that was 10 seats will be chosen for the countries. Monica says the headlines upfront coming right up, bye for now to this is time for the west to replace the best option for the ukraine. Washer war. Then what would those options look like . What is us strategy when it comes to iran for almost 200 years, americans have generally been stuck with 2 political choices, but cannot ever change because it comes to us politics developed in the United States constitution holds the separation of church and state as sacrosanct. Its a pillar of american democracy at a poor fast that of its identity. However, in recent years, has been an undercurrent of religious rhetoric and symbology, permeating political discourse. First and nationalism is a term you might have heard on the news or in speeches from some on the right. But what does it really, is it on the rise this week and upfront special, we take a closer look at 1st and nationalism and how its affecting politics and civil rights in the United States. The joining us to discuss this is anthia butler, chair of religious studies at the university of pennsylvania and author of white evangelical racism, the politics of morality in america. Amanda tyler, executive director of the Baptist Joint Committee and contributing author to the Christian Nationalism and the january 6th insurrection report. And kristen do a professor of history at Calvin University and author of jesus and john wayne, how white evangelicals corrupted of faith and fractured a nation, some provocative titles around here. It can be thank you so much for joining me. Im gonna start with you 1st, but the term kristin. Nationalism has cropped up at various times and us history. And some of the arguments had a consistent presence since the countries founding from connections to white supremacist groups like the k k k, to the more recent Patriot Front of Christian Nationalism is by no means a new phenomenon. Taking its history into account, how do you define Christian Nationalism as it is today . Actually simply, i just defined it as people who believe that god created america for a purpose that america is special. In other words, when you are a Christian Nationalist, you believe that god created america as a christian nation. First of all, 2nd, that white men who were the founders of this nation were also christian. And the 3rd that christianity is the most important religion of all. And that really flies in the face of a lot of things that the founders in the front of, you know, all the founding documents, absolutely to arrive. Disposition is about fascinating. One, ive never understood. Absolutely. And i think, you know, one of the things that i find troubling about this is the 2 things. Actually, one is the way in which they get it all wrong about the founders and the framers and things that theyve said. And what are documents, say in the declaration of independence and the constitution, you know, no religious tests, they believe in religious tests then and theres a big religious test with that, that christianity. But at the same time, they dont want a lot of government, but they want a christian government. And so these are the things that i call the tensions within Christian Nationalism about Christian Nationalism cant really get the story right. A 100 percent. And you know, for all of us around this table, we might have different innovations of what we think Christian Nationalism is. But i do thinking largest in very much in the history of this nation, how it was founded and why it was founded. And everyone trying to put a divine sort of approbation about america on top of everything. For some Christian Nationalism has that like a revival and really strong sense of 19 seventys, when evangelicals on the right kind of align themselves with the republican party. Presumably in an effort to kind of galvanized an anti liberal movement set uh take us through. Whats happened over the last, oh my god, its been 50 years. I didnt realize the 70s was 50 years ago. The, the last half century of whats happened and how the ideology has kind of evolved over time. And youre exactly right. So the idea that america, as a christian nation has been around for a very long time. But what were talking about today, the current kind of explosion of conversation around white Christian Nationalism really can be traced back to the 19 sixties and 1970 emerging in this cold war era. Now just before that, you had a strong sense of patriotism, right . And we had a common enemy in communism. And Christian Nationalism was often something that united americans together not just really not just right wing paula to exactly your kind of consensus era in the sixtys that starts to splinter. And we have the civil rights movement, the feminist movement, and the anti war movement. And thats why we see some of these core values of patriotism, of christian america, of gender traditionalism kind of come together in an oppositional movement. So that we have people who are holding to these values are doing so over against other americans, over against civil rights activists over against feminist liberals, anti war activists. Right. And so becomes this kind of oppositional movement and allies with the modern republican party. And thats really this Christian Nationalism that we are seeing today. But it has been brewing for a very long time in white, evan jellico spaces. Right. And he had talked about kind of this mystical notion, right. This is an accurate understanding of our nations past. It ignores a lot of our founding documents. They will talk about the midst of the separation of church and state. But this has been cultivated in these spaces for decades in sermons, in popular literature, in christian film. And so it is really pervasive, and were really seeing that the fruits of those seeds very clearly today made that Christian Nationalism. An evangelical ism austin, sort of conflated, particularly in the context of trump, in the air of trump. What kind of followers are kind of all in the same mix, but many argue that these groups are actually not the same, that theyre distinct. What specifically distinguishes Christian Nationalist from evangelicals. Well, i think its important to note the Christian Nationalism, of course and nationalism as an ideology is a problem for all of the country. And its a problem for all iterations of christianity. So while it would be convenient to say this is totally aligns with this one expression of christianity. I dont think thats accurate. I think that christians from across from all the different denominations need to wrestle with chris Christian Nationalism and understand how thats different than christianity. I think that Christian Nationalism though can help explain quite evangelicals as a voting block, white evangelicals voted in such high numbers for trump, what makes and youve been jealous when youve been jealous as well . Thats a, thats a 1000000. 00 question, but i think that its become a term thats more about identity than about religion, especially for white evangelicals. And thats because they are voting in such locks. Step for a figure likes trump, and then now for trump acolytes who are running in this, in this selection. So it is more about an identity that carries with it assumptions about nativism and authoritarianism. And patriarchy, then it does about a religion of christianity. So its not a particular faith claim or a particular orientation, particularly theological disposition or co. Okay. I think its both about, i think increasingly we hear it as more of a Political Movement than a religious identity. And thats concerning friends from that. Yeah, i agree with the crew, i would say it this way and im interested to hear what christian would say to i would say that it used to be the logical construct that late in kind of ideas. They came out of the 17th of 18th century what, what does it mean to be evans alcohol . You know, when we think of the word and galico with which is basically spread the gospel and the good news, right. This is how evans almost always thought of themselves. What we see now is evan chuckle is im being acquainted with politics. And so ive said before, i wrote an article back in 2012 about this, and i said that republicanism was a new religion. And that this is a religion that had aligned itself with evans alcoholism. And i think youre gonna explain something to me, the fascinating and confusing to me. If we say its a political identity. Yeah, we say its rooted in a particular set of christian values around reading the good news, right . Yeah. Or i get there competing interpretations and ideas about what it means to be question about what the good news is about the new testament about do i get all of it right . But i cant imagine any iteration that makes sense and corresponds to top. And yet, even jessicas tie themselves to trump, if you are, youve been jealous of any sort whether you are, even if you thought i would have thought of it as a left wing idiology, if you thought it was a right wing idiology new or a corner point bible thumper a new were, you know, mean if youre a literalist you, i mean, theres no version of this thing that makes sense with trump presidency. His identity, his character, his history, his say a lot of these people pick 12, somebody please up man saying id love to take my go. So are you right at some evans all calls will define themselves as a theological, as a Group Defined by their theology. And theyll talk about things like a born, again experience and the authority of the scriptures and uh, the centrality of the costs of christ, right . This is how they will define themselves, at least their leader, as well as a cultural historian. While i was looking at the history i saw that didnt really hold together, it doesnt make sense because the vast majority of black protestants in this country, for example, could check off all those boxes. And they do not identify is angelica because its very clean, even difficult, dont identify them as them either. The most do not write some, some will claim them, but not actually, you know, they wont be in the same churches together or in the same organizations. In many cases, and so i see evans alcoholism, largely as a Cultural Movement and a system of networks and alliances. So if you want to understand of angelic wisdom today, you have to look at the organizations at the christian publishing at the massive industry. If its a consumer culture christian radio, and so it, it shares that quote, unquote christian world view and a far and wide through this Popular Culture and through membership in these organizations. And that membership is police right. There are gatekeepers here. And, and its those organizations that then unite with political organizations and now the story a, how do we get from this understanding of admin job wisdom to support of donald trump . Thats where we have to bring in the politics and the power. Because with in these communities they have for half a century now cultivated this understanding that they are under threat, that they have to fight to restore christian america, and that the liberals are against them. Everybody is so they need power, they need power in order to restore christian america. And trump came in and he was the right guy for the job precisely because he was not constrained by traditional christian virtue. And he told them he would fight to protect christianity, and they actually called him their alternate fighting champion. He was their warrior and he would be ruthless on their behalf to preserve their supremacy. Exactly. And, and supremacy is the right word here because theres one more thing that he was for white people period. And so this is the thing that i get at. And my book is that i want people understand that evans uncles have always had problems about rate. So you say racism is it is a feature, not a book. And its a feature of this in, you know, theres a one kind of history that we talk about it ever juggles. And thats great. Abolition is a, you know, trying to get the boat suffrage, all these things, right. Even have all of the civil rights movement. Right. But theres another history about evan jungle is a step, a rating because its wanting to have slave southern baptists, k k, k, who start the k k, k. A pastor. All right . You know, we have what are we fighting against king because they are evil because they are trying to use up the status quote. We see how this goes, right . So by the time you get the truck, right, what are the we just had before . Drop of blood president brock, whos saying obama, who to possibly be from america. Oh, is you know, you use syrup or who is why the Tea Party Movement habits. And then you get donald trump. And all of these people who are evan shell calls in 2016, you have a rise in people who vote for donald trump in 2020. But what studies have found one in particular, im sorry, im forgetting the name that they said more people call themselves up and joel, because of what happened in 2016. Not because they thought they believed in this particular kind of christianity. Its because they believe that admin joel coal is a mit white to them, and that is the core of all of this white mist is imbedded in american evan. Joe, cool. If you could have black in the jungles, you could have latino evan jungle. But why dublin, joel coles, or the senate one, not of everything they are yet. And so as a voting block, they are the people that they go for. And let me say this very clearly, because this is the way you need to understand why i have a job is like down the road. Donald trump delivered donald trump delivered the pre Court Justices over 200. 00 just as its donald trump delivered for them. She was there, deliver it from when we say it delivered supreme Court Justices, were talking about the justices who would overturn will be with right. Okay. And which was the thing that they have been fighting for for a very long time. And so he got those justices, he got those just as a sort of a lot of everything for them. So why wouldnt they go to the capital and fight for him . Why wouldnt they go to the ballot box and fight for him . Why wouldnt they believe that the election was a lot . Because donald trump was ordained by god to be in that particular position. And so thats what evan joel calls think write down who are for donald trump. Chris is in your book, a g, as in john wayne. You write that evangelical support for former president. Trump is the combination of evangelicals embrace of militant masculinity and the callous display of power at home and abroad. Those are ideas that seemed again to be at odds with some of their fundamental faith claims fundamental beliefs. Um, how do you reconcile . How do they reconcile these things . Do they attempt to reconcile . And i love you to wellness as well. I mean, how, how do they reconcile this stuff . Yeah, i mean, they didnt seem to be when i 1st started this research, which was almost 20 years ago now actually i was, was looking at popular of indelicate books on masculinity, on how to be a christian man. And this is a huge market, right . These books, some of them are selling in the millions. So vast market and people are men are studying these in churches and in small groups, what does it mean to be a christian man . While i read some of these and i was surprised because there werent a whole lot of bible verses in these books. Instead they left the hollywood heroes. They looked to mel gibson, William Wallace from the movie braveheart, or thats their favorite. They looked at cowboys and warriors and soldiers, and john wayne, right. And this not like jesus, not jesus, right . But then what they ended up doing is they transformed jesus, they transformed the jesus of the gospels into this warrior christ. Now you can find some passages and revelation to work with them to build on, and then they, they make jesus and to the like, man on it with big muscles on tattoos, down his leg, charging into battle, wielding and bloody sword to slay his enemy. So when theyre talking about following christ, right, thats the christ that theyre holding up, not the christ to says, love your enemies, love your neighbor, turn the other cheek and put that sword away. And so theres the logical work actually being done to transform historic christian t change in the service of their own quest for power. Amanda, you said the question nationalism was a political ideology, not a religious indemnity, as youve talked about here. But Christian Nationalism is distinguished from everyday political conservatism. Why has this kind of nationalist ideology been attached to christianity in the us . In particular, theres always been this disconnect about who we say we are and who we really are. And so who we say we are as a country as a country that embraces religious freedom for all its right there in our founding documents, no religious test and that there will are government will remain secular so that religion can flourish. But Christian Nationalism which privileges christianity and says, there is a special place for christians and American Society has been running alongside these ideals all the way. And so i think its just been there for people to seize upon and try to organize around. And there is cultural live legitimacy still to being a christian, there is a special place, it seems, and different in elective office. All of our president s, for instance, of all profess christianity that even though true exactly, is despite there being no religious test for public office. And so i, i think that we, we see this tension in our society right now. And so theres something still a culturally current about being a christian and professing christianity that provides cover for what is really become authoritarian action uh in, in our current contact. I want to drill down a little bit on this question about the kind of foundational documents of the United States and how they say theres no religious tests and how they establish a separation of church and state and said in the Thomas Jefferson. Yeah, referred to this stablished main clause in the 1st amendment. Me as a wall of separation between religion and government or as we commonly call it again, this separation of church and state. But Christian Nationalists seem to want to undermine this, which wouldnt be so weird if they werent also brandishing the constitution and constitutional rhetoric about freedom and democracy in liberty. Yeah. How do they reconcile this to me that mass messaging would be asking this . Well, i think probably the question isnt, you know, how are they doing it . The question is doing it, and then they dont really care about that history. Thomas jefferson, what does it has disney junior was gonna mean this engine was absolutely disingenuous because as many people are on the table, theres lots of, of, um, tongues that have been written about history. From a very strange perspective. I a david barton who writes these histories that are not real histories about america and American Religion. Right. And so when John Jefferson is writing to the church in danbury, connecticut, and saying, you know, they should be as well as know, were not doing this right. They dont care that Thomas Jefferson had a koran. They dont care that the corolla is sitting right down the street and the see at the smithsonian. What they care about is that god made this a special nation. And so when you talk about this nation being special, those documents can read them how you want to read them because you dont read the same history that kristin is teaching in her history class. Or im teaching in American Religion class. Theyre not reading that stuff. They are reading these kinds of made up homes. This is, this is a nostalgia movement. And we have to think about Christian Nationalism as adults delta massage before time that never exist. It does delta for time. The didnt exist at the beginning of this nation. Why did people come here . They came here to escape, you know, ty, radical religion in england. They wanted to have religious freedom to do what they wanted to do. They were religious people. And now we see this being used as no, no, no, we need to have a state religion just like english. This is crazy, right . Because youre doing exactly this thing that off elders and framers were with battles for. And so i think what we have to really understand about people who are embracing Christian Nationalism right now is that they may not get all the nuances around this table, right. They just hear this as another phrase in a whole lot of phrases like make america great. Again, american exceptionalism, the greatness of america that have been spewed out from different kinds of people through our history. Kristin, some would argue that Christian Nationalism is gaining political clout. A number of politicians is like marjorie taylor, green, lauren boulevard, and republican pennsylvania. Gubernatorial candidate doug muster. Yano have all been increasingly in the spotlight while towing the Christian Nationalism line. Is Christian Nationalism to influence on the rise, or is it a matter of these voices being louder and taking up more space in the political discourse . Its about its about. And thats not something that weve seen really just in the last few months. Initially when scholars a social scientist and so were surfacing this and and saying this is Christian Nationalism and, and its authoritarian and anti democratic and its all of these other things we saw inside christian spaces among those who are promoting Christian Nationalism deny that it even existed and say that youre just smearing us for being patriot. And, and then within just weeks we ha, the rhetoric shift and we saw people like Margery Taylor green, come out and say, yes, im a Christian National as a national, as learn bober and proud of it. And, and not just that, but all christians ought to be Christian Nationalists. And then all christians are Christian Nationalists. Amanda, we have seen the overturning of all the way to landmark federal ruling. The guaranteed the right to abortion, a wave of anti translate distillation government funding earmarked for religious education all. And its kind of part of an alarming shift in policy and due to shared rulings tied to the far right going forward. How is Christian Nationalism going to affect the fundamental, i mean, really the basis of civil rights for people in United States . I think Christian National lives and strikes at the very heart, a civil rights for all americans. Ive said that Christian Nationalism is the single biggest threat today for religious freedom for all, because it cuts against that core foundational ideas that are belonging in American Society should never depend on how we worship, or how we identify religiously and Christian Nationalism ties to blow, all of that up. And so one part of Christian Nationalism, of course, is the site that the United States should be declared a christian nation. It very alarmingly. There was a new pull out. The majority of republicans believe that the United States should be declared a christian nation, even though a majority of republicans also know that thats unconstitutional. Yeah, so, so they understand, thats why i dont believe that that chris, those who most the spouse, Christian Nationalism really believe in the 1st amendment. They dont, they believe in a, a system of government that would privilege christianity. And then unfortunately, its a fascinating given how mellow dramatically they have talked about. Yes. Going into the middle east, how they need to tear down is allow me government slumming, states how theyve denounces lumnick nationalism and religious tests of other sorts of in there really thing we dont have a problem with states and religion and we just want our state now religion, i say, i think you got it. I think thats exactly right that they have progress the of, of condemning religious nationalism on the world stage while trying to embrace it at home. But thats exactly whats happening. And i think in a post real world, we will see attempts at religious laws being passed in the state legislatures. And at the same time, the us Supreme Court in the last term, not only with the jobs decision, but also with really landmarks, decisions trying to destroy the wall between a separation between church and state, have under cut the Legal Protections, and that, that could become a reality, i think this is incredibly concerning both for civil rights of all americans. And especially for those in our Public Schools. Im really concerned about Christian Nationalism and civil rights of our youngest neighbors. Those in the Public Schools. And. And for instance, if we might see more state sponsored religious exercise in the Public Schools as well as of course, the attack on history being taught and the Public Schools, they would much rather teach the mythology of a christian nation. Then a candid history of the United States, we could, we could literally into the schools with dinosaurs, the right of the curriculum, and were going back to creation creation stories. Well, i mean, i cant believe were having this conversation, but we no longer have the Legal Protections or the support of the, of the United StatesSupreme Court and helping us to send off attacks like this. And so its going to be up to those of us who, who are concerned about Christian Nationalism who dont want to see this is a religious state of who care about religious freedom for all people to stand up in huge at those foundational ideals. But what i think the 3 of you for an amazing conversation, are you right . That is our show up front will be back next week, the, the bronx, new york, 1973, the birthplace of hip hop, a young man named 5 campbells, better known as d. J. Cool. Hurd. Got the movement started and people danced out of back to school party. It was right here on the cedric avenue in the bronx. And this ordinary looking Apartment Building where a party full of teenagers help launch a music style using funk, soul jazz and rock classics. Be created an entirely new south west since become a multi 1000000000. 00 industry, the universal hip hop museum, currently under construction 6, to preserve the movements roots, residents around the globe, the states them even been coming to add the new International Anti corruption excellence award. Nominate your hero now. One of the last remaining ancient forests in Southeast Asia is a lifeline to hundreds of lumber jacks and drivers. We follow that treacherous journey as they walk through extreme condition together and transport this dangerous but precious cargo risk in your phone. You on al jazeera, the, the clock into how the top stories here on al jazeera and at least 52 people have been killed, an applause to the religious gathering. Mustang in the pack, starting province of religious done separately. At least 5 people were killed in explosion at the mosque and the city of hungry nip, a shop, was passing near to the router when the last happened. I dont know the reason as i became and conscious after the bloss i was scared to i so so many bodies lying here and there