Other there and welcome to the program. Im nora kyle is being described as a crisis. Thousands of people tanning up daily at the southern frontier of the United States, from her face life threatening dangers to make it the need to meet a will avoid the want at the tech, some border bots for the us political establishment. Its a crisis of a different sort. Yeah. Before the president ial election, democrats of being divided, full and against the white house and republicans that demanding harsh images. So many people arriving that cities fall from the board, struggling to cope with the legal duty to provide shelter. And well talk about all of this with a guest in just a moment. But 1st lets hear from heidi joe castro, whos on the banks of the rio grande that marks the Us Mexico Border here on the us border. You can look right into mexico. That is the land that is across the river and where we have seen a steady stream of people and asylum, endeavoring to cross. The water here gets about waste steam and there is an unpredictable courage. In fact, 2 children died here. Well try to cross in recent weeks. And as you can imagine, it is quite the harrowing experience for parents who are foisting their toddlers and babies over their shoulders to try to keep them out of the water. Once they do cross. Those hurdles are just the 1st of many, this is barbed wire fence put up by the state of texas, meant to be a deterrent to keep people in the water rather than allow them to scramble up the steep part of the bank onto us soil. And as a result, we have seen hundreds of people stranded here halfway in the water and surrounded by barbed wire, without protection from the sun and without drinking water. Many had Young Children with them who looked quite liz, liz, and in fact a man collapsed in front of us from heat exhaustion that was after Us Border Patrol agents took pity and given the great number of people stranded here, cutting openings through the razor wire, which allow people to pass through, and then those people were taken into us custody and processed and some will be expelled, while others who are deemed to have a legitimate chance that asylum are per rolled into the us where eventually theyll try to convince an integration judge to let them stay for good. Their chance is to prevail at court. So are slim, and thats a reason why many simply ignore the court days and go on to live as undocumented immigrants in the u. S. And that is what republicans call amnesty. They say that the Biden Administration should not be allowing people to even make it this far into us shores. The governor of texas is among the greatest critics of president biden. And it is he, the governor who ordered this barbed wire and other barriers to be put here to make it as difficult as possible for people to reach american soil. But yet they still come with thousands more, still making their way north from mexico following them. Many have told me that all this to them is worth the risk of putting themselves and their own children through these dangers in order to flee persecution, violence and poverty in their home countries. They say this is for their chance to come to the United States. For inside story, im how did your castro alj a 0 . Well, thats lucky little place. The most common journeys taken by people to reach the stuff in the us. That is coming from south america, have to cross the diary and grap. Thats a dangerous stretch of jungle between columbia and panama. Moving through, central america, migrants then, and to mexico, some seek asylum, the wealth, all those move further north towards the us border between the us and mexico, migrants and refugees then try to enter the final and desired destination, the United States. Well, thats bringing, i guess. Now and in washington dc, we have now and because the associate professor at the school of Public Policy um the university of marylands naiambi as a specialist on race and ethnic politics in new york. Rebecca wolfes policy council for immigration justice campaign, the American Immigration council and also in washington dc, is john ferry. Pon it f p advocacy, hes a public and the Political Communications justice and a cold list full the hell of i will welcome to all of you. Rebecca, lets start with you because the numbers are staggering. Really, 9000 people crossing every day. Why are we seeing so many people right now . And i think its important to look at it in the context of the last few years. Part of the reason that there are such high numbers coming in is that under both the by 100 administration and the trump administration, our border was essentially closed and you had people under what was called the title 42 programs being expelled. And what that does is, in addition to the conditions that are forcing people to migrate, you also had a number of people that were stuck at our border and in mexico league, but not allowed to come in to the, to the United States. And so in addition, as i said to the conditions in these countries, but people are fleeing our policies have exacerbated the situation. Dont do you agree with that to agree that now the porter is more open than it was before on the button and trump . Yeah, its complete mass mass for wow. Ive been calling for the complete overall our immigration system. We need more integration just we need a better control of a more. We need a more orderly process. The system is completely broken down and i think that everybody get it deserves of blackboard. But you know, we do have a need forever to this country. We do need to feel jobs and just talking about what needs to be an orderly process, needs to be done in a way that were controlling it and not just being controlled by events. And right now its a complete mess. These as a complete mess. We have got present terabyte and trying to bring some order to the process with his new policies. Dont do not see those as move moves in the right direction as well. Yeah, if youre talking about the uh what, whats going on with the venezuelan is were getting to the production. You know, i think what that actually does is it gets more people with venezuela in other countries to say, hey, we got a shot coming. Here comes a magazine, even more people come to the board and trying to get in. Uh, you know, we need a comprehensive strategy that deals with diplomacy, with mexico and central america. The 1st of all, we need a solid horror which we, we dont, its all and i, you know, we showed that we were trying to build a wall there and all that stuff during the, by the administration. Yeah. You know, when people think they can get in, they, they try harder and when i think theyre going to succeed in and be able to kind of work here without any job, you know, legal repercussions. They, they, they, they take the chances and thats why the, okay, um, just to abuse the tps that john is referring to, is temporary protective states as that by and has recently extended to a number of venezuelans who are already in the United States. Now be i was actually thinking more in terms of what bite and was trying to do at the border in terms of turning people away who didnt, who havent already sold for, assign them in another country. Im facing them. We entry within 5 years, some look at that as being as tough as trump was a very critical, but hes still not full. Well, thank you for havent mean certainly mean by and has not been solved on the issue of immigration countries. What many people would suggest . I mean, hes ramped up deportations. I mean, part of what were seeing at the border at least, is that the us is sort of changing people status, but theyre denying them status as well. So its not that the border is out of control and people are just coming in t vs certainly doesnt offer anyone other than people who are already here in the us. An opportunity to be here. It doesnt extend to people who are just getting here. You can, as haitians, you can ask folks from sierra leone. Thats a how to vs work, but i think dont buy it and just kind of see or is being portrayed as being solved on the issue of emigration. But i mean even the ac system that they engage to process applications was roundly criticized because a lot of people dont have access to sell both. The other kind of things. So i think the buying administration is probably being seen as more liberal on this issue than it is. And i, i would have to disagree with my colleague in that. I dont think a wall is going to stop people who are desperate. And i mean, thats something we have to deal with this root cause of why people are coming. And its not about policy that many people may or may not even be aware of. Its about the whole new country conditions and other things that are pushing people here, despite the danger, despite the, the, the lack of possibility, even that they will be granted some sort of asylum status. And rebecca was saying, thats a paying out right now, only because despite this is tough policy from by doing it acted for it to talent for about a month of to title 40 to expired. And people werent quite sure how it was going to work. But now is weve started by saying, and this program, the numbers are rising so much despite these new policies being put in place, has very little its actually going to tell people from trying to get into the United States. Well, i think thats right. And i think that there are also some misconceptions of who is coming and how i demonstrated by my colleagues as well. But these are not people that are just coming in and being given status. That is not how it works. Um, people are a temporary protective status is something that has been around for decades and has been used temporarily as, as in the name to provide people with the ability to stay at work when conditions in their home countries which are also temporary, make it so that returning them is simply against us of policy and also against United States, moral and ethical obligations. I think that its also really important to contextualize this talking point that there are simply are borders simply being overrun to by people. That is not what is happening. Uh, as you mentioned, we divided the administration has implemented a number of policies in attempting to create more pathways that are orderly so that people can, can come and not necessarily stay a permanent way, but be able to work, provide for themselves and, and contribute to the economy while theyre Immigration Court cases, which they have a right to pursue, can go to the courts. I would agree that wed certainly need things like more Immigration Judges add more legal and orderly pap ways to enter the United States. But that does not need to be paired with a total disregard for our obligations under us and International Law to allow people to seek asylum in the United States. Dont. Whats her response to that . As well as i think the conditions and venezuela and there are or are really problematic and we got to be sympathetic to the problems of that as well as the interactions. Now theres the best cerebral governors deal with um, you know, i think its hard to say that with all its doing now. The reason were having this program is because people perceive that the board are being overrun and we dont have control over the bar. And the people are coming here and ways that are you may really, and i think that we, we all, we need, we need the, by the decision. Can claim that this is about success is i think its been a terrible disaster. I think one of the things that whats happened, why this is become a bigger issue, is that the governor of texas uh, as of the times the Governor Florida has actually taken some of these uh immigrants, or really little brands and taking them to northern cities and you have people in here, adams, and brand new jobs, ive got to say, unless we cant afford, this is always immigration. Somebody. Yeah. And i saw, i think the young people outside the taxes are starting to understand how big of a problem was, is and theyre starting to get really irritated with the increasing cry. And im just general lawlessness that happens with a completely broken bore to get to the bottom. And then tell them, because i think you had a good point up until we started planning immigrants for increasing crime, but of a full that i think you had a good point. Id like to put to now be which is that the seas of chicago of new york, these places that a fall from the board actually having to confront a launch number of my goods coming in to the city seeking shelter, seeking ways to survive with employment and they all struggling, and these leaders also cities attending to joe biden and saying, look, what are you going to do about that . Absolutely, and i will say it is, i think its important that we dont complete the assignment, process with other kinds of emigration proceed. Seeking asylum is not a legal peg. It is a protected right. That people have. Yes, youre the receiving agent has a right to decide who they are, but it is not in the Legal Process. And i think its interesting that theres all these hand wringing over migrant from this out yet when binds. And im going to allow in a 100000. 00 ukranian, there wasnt even so much as a webber about whether we will be able to afford this. How would we be able to shelter probably be able to, to employ these people. So i think its really interesting that there are some people that we view as having rightful claims to asylum, and others is not now certainly the mayor of chicago in the mayors of, of new york, understand immigration. They may not be as close to the border, but they are traditional receiving context for immigrants. So its not as if they dont understand. I do think this is more about proving a political point. They trying to spread the pain, if you will, of how we address our immigration system. And i think most americans agree that the immigration system is undesirable. But i, i will say most people i think over estimate what is happening at the border because of our focus again on the southern border in particular. And when we talk about the ukrainians that we allowed in, when we talk about the app games be allowed in, there is much less consternation. And i think we need to really investigate why that is why some peoples claims are viewed as legitimate and other people claims argued as less than so a perhaps even dangerous. Have to go to the country. Absolutely. And well, rebecca, lets, lets pick up on that. Why do you think so many people do . See my friends arriving at the border as a threat . Is it because . Well, its like invasion, a throwing around. Absolutely. The rhetoric that has been used by the right wing and republicans has only increased its only gotten more dramatic. Even though the situation while there are increased numbers of people coming across the border. The way people are coming across the border is the same as it has been for a number of years now. I think its also really important to, to your question before about how this affects the, the large cities to the north and, and also how this affects cities to the south, like el paso and even you go past the solution to that is to allow people to work, and that is what those mirrors havent been asking for. And so it seems a bit disingenuous. But on the one hand, we want to use this talking point of people in these cities are overwhelming the services and then with the other hand stage. But we are also against the, the methods in which we give these people permission to work temporarily while theyre here, which is what temporary protected status, among other things does and, and tell me what do you think about that . Because there are 2 things that the us, these, its more people and its more why, cuz its not a natural fit. Yeah, im a big believer in legal immigration. I do think we need to work, as ive said the many different occasions, but they need to be your leeway and then it needs to be an orderly process. And when you start reading the working for us to people who came here, really, it becomes very problematic because its a crazy, even more incentive for people just to bypass the system. And then theyll get you to. And so this is what weve kind of created. Weve created a system that incentivizes other people to come and go outside of the system, never show up for the court years, which so many of them never do and just find jobs where they dont get them to do get paid cash. And so the other thing, this is what the, what, what size on the web browsers, theres a said in the past, isnt the per, what do you have an influx of the legal workers in the prices wages . And that is an issue that, that maybe use are concerned about that. Certainly the journal of last week bothers and writing, all visions were aware of and making the case that if youre lower wages, you know that bad for ordinary workers, you dont do it blank by the rules. And you know, and would say that one of the, one of the things are the big business gets a task for, is encouraging, is lots of illegal labor so they can pay the less. And that is one of the things as presented in the past, that the big business by Chamber Commerce door. And now youve seen recently, members of the right attack and big this is the same reason right now the, the system is pretty unbroken, isnt it . Because we do have 5 and trying to put more legal pathways in place with Processing Centers and in other countries in south america. And with this new app that you mentioned earlier. But the trouble is its simply not enough. The waiting times a too long. Its too difficult to use. Its too difficult to access. Its not working. What does need to happen . Well, look, i mean, i think this is not going to happen in a single administration. The system has been broken for a very long time. And i think when we think about who is there to process, i mean these really important vacancies on Immigration Court. So natalie does that . Courtney to be expanded, but the bank gives you there. They are. Need to be deal. I think we need to think about how people access to a counsel. The Legal Counsel is really important in these cases. And again, i want to stressful your viewers. People who are engaged in an asylum process are not the same as and documented migrant. They are part of a Legal Process that is acknowledged by International Law. They have a right to engage that process. And so part of what people have been saying is that if we are concerned about immigration, like my colleague just said earlier, give people an opportunity to work while they hear. Because when we have put people on these kinds of programs where they can work while they are awaiting their hearing, they usually show up because people havent invest, if they want to be here. So this idea that, that people are just going to kind of run into the wild and, and that show back up is not really being borne out by the evidence. People want to be here because if they get caught, the likelihood of them ever be able to come here through some legal means is forestall. So that is not actually accurate. So i think that needs to happen. I think we also need to have a real conversation about what americans want, because people say we want people to play by the rules and we want people to come here legally. But what does that actually mean . Because people here seeking asylum are engaging a Legal Process. Yes, it is broken, but that is the process that this government has had for multiple multiple administrations. And so when people engage that process, theyre still going to be something as x. Well they didnt do it. The right way, well, what is the right way . People dont actually having to pay, dont actually know, because i dont know what is involved. Its very arduous to become a legal rather than the United States. Rebecca, i would quite like to know what are considered the legitimate and successful ways you can apply for asylum in the us are sure and, and now this is totally correct. Entering the southern border to seek asylum is legal. Simply declaring them Illegal Immigrants does not make it so, and people who access whether they access it through a port of entry, which is also a legal entry to many of these people that we are declaring the legal immigrants and crossing you legally are in fact doing neither, they are legally here you are allowed to be in the United States while you pursue an asylum claim. And youre allowed under not just International Law, but under us law to access our asylum system. And many people are doing so at our ports of entry, but those are in fact are in d broken. And so when people are desperate and need to get out of violent situations, they are crossing the regularly. But that does not mean that their presence in the United States is inherently legal. I also think that, you know, people can come in through a number of parole programs that have been been created by the, by the administration. But those are limited in, in both by nationality, but also by whether or not you have the ability to, for example, get a passport, a non expired passport from countries that in some cases like venezuela or cuba, simply dont have a system to provide those. And so there are limitations to that, but i, i do want to reiterate again, but seeking asylum is not to mingle and being in the United States as you seek asylum is also not a legal john down because on this saying that the system has been in place for decades throughout multiple administrations, why has the u. S. Congress failed to approve for the Immigration Reform for decades and how gently is it needed to do say well, it has been tried. Ive been involved with many efforts to try to best comprehensive organizational form, and that typically, what happens is that the hard right, does not really wants to what they call grant amnesty, which is give people legal status. When i came here outside of the asylum system, which many, many do. And then a lot of great, thats kind of give that kind of amnesty. And you know that that is what crest in 2005, i think there was an effort in the 2013 or something but failed as well. So the system, so were open right now though. Then i do think that republicans and democrats have to figure out a way for the good country youre going to the economy and good for the really good for the region. Scary the find a way to get more information. Judges get a complete full on the border makes people were coming year have the kind of the security and understanding that they can try to go through the legal side process and that kind of go around the system. Because i think a lot of people feel like theyre never gonna get a chance to do that. And if youre talking about the app, the app is very unpopular because people cant access it and cant figure out how i will help them. So theres a lot of things that have to happen um to make the system better. And i dont think the political will ever do it this year. So im not sure im fixing to have an extra either. So no maam, but weve got a Government Shutdown looming next week, and republicans are making boulder security. A key issue. What do you think is going to happen . All they going to hold up this stuff that funding measure, trying to push through something that they know full well is not going to be passed in the senate to and that full close or shut down of the government. I wish i could say that the government shut down wouldnt have been particularly given the disastrous Economic Conditions that can create in the region. But i dont trust this set of republicans quite frankly. To do that. I think what john will say here that i agree with that there are places there is, there are some interesting overlaps between democrats and republicans that could be exploited and explored to create i think this comprehensive Immigration Reform, but it is a very winning political issue quite frankly, depending on the bases, and i think for that reason we wont see it because most americans do agree that they would prefer more border security. Most americans do agree that there need to be these pathways toward legal citizenship. Most americans do agree that children who are brought here without documentation should have a way to achieve regular citizenship. But they are still going to be inviting as long as there are political points that can be scored with peoples lives. Unfortunately. And i dont see a way out of this any time soon. And so on that i think john and i are in agreement. Rebecca, you will. So in agreement that do think will let us see the political will to explore areas that do overlap on this issue. Well, i would hope so, and i think that what the conditions that need to change as miami, the other 2 are those conditions in which talking points and the use of immigrants as political ponds outweighs any sort of commitment to real comprehensive reform. And i also believe that theres a lot of misrepresentation and misunderstanding of what is happening or our border. And so when we continue to simply use sound bites and talking points that dont really get into the, the, the issue of, of what, how our border actually operates. In uses systems, were simply going to continue to have a deadlock on of being able to come up with Creative Solutions to, to these issues. Okay. Its been a very interesting discussion today. Thank you very much to all of you for joining us, maam. The concept rebecca wolf and john ferry, and thank you to for watching. You can see the program again any time by visiting a website thats onto there a dot com for further discussion to go to a facebook page. Thats facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. You can also join the conversation on x all handle is out a inside story from me laura kyle and the whole team here. Bye for now. The. On the system youve been coming to add the new international and corruption excellence award, nominates your hero. Now she was going to say is focused on guessing food to those who need a nice every child on the 7th. Still received a letter of milk each day, but now triple digit inflation is hacking into peoples spending problem. A problem that Maria Castillo is also aware of. Shes just spent 2 days salary on a couple of mangoes and sometimes, whats your dream . My grandchild, the something with his life that he lives well, but he doesnt want to live here to leave the country and take my family with me. Life in cuba is bad. Theres hardly any food. Cubans emigrated in record numbers last year. One way for the government to convince more people to stay with it, to get more fear of peoples place. The up until mccrae and these are the top stories on the elders there at least 100 people have been killed and Dozens Injured in a fight at a wedding in northern a rock. The interior Ministry Says non people have been arrested on the heat, is on his way to hunt on you and sent us this report. It was supposed to be one of the most magical knights of the cup of lives in the mid of their wedding celebrations, happiness and its daintily turned it into heart on the