Violent seems to have settled down. But it once again underlines the countries instability. Theres deep concern internationally about this weeks on rest and which dozens of people were killed and many more injured. The African Union and western governments. According for peace, conflict and deep division, so persistent since momma gadhafi was oh, the throne 12 years ago. So whats next for the be a candle divided ation f. A b re unites has a booklet take to restore peace. Well discuss all this with our guests and just a few moments, but 1st a report from car leg on the latest 5. Its an easy come on the streets of tripoli. Days after the work fighting any yeah. Between rival sections in libyas capital. Dozens of people were killed and more than a 100 injured, a truce to cold up to one side, the special to turn forth released this man. Malcolm would comes a military commander from the 4 full full brigade on group. Analysts say hes an important figure in the battle for control of the country. The groups, the 2 of many involved and the stop start conflict thats play libya about exactly since a native back from adult, the top of a long time lead. Ive heard mama duffy in 2011. 1 of the countries currently split between the u. N. Recognized government of National Unity headed by Prime Minister abdul. How much out the paper in the west and another in the east, back by one or can be for half the ad on the to rival administrations compete for power through shifting alliances within the groups on the ground debate but has issued an apology and wound against further violence who has not to be mad, i apologize to the mothers father, the sisters and brothers who lost their children, really apologize to them. All of us, libyans are not satisfied with what happened and we will not be satisfied with it. We will not be silent until we stop this matter, but 3 is often libyas warring sides agreed on a permanent sci fi. And what do you include in historic achievement . It seems theres still no sign of a lost in political solution. Car leg inside story. Well, as you had, the libya has to rival administrations, heres a look at who controls was in the west, including the capital tripoli, the internationally recognized government, the National Unity. As in paul, its led by Prime Minister of those how many of the pay, but that is backed by the you. When it controls the area in purple on the map, in the east wall or probably for half, the is in power supported by a parliament into brook. He controls the areas in orange. His self styled army is backed by russia, the eliza bower of emeralds of egypt. And the rest of the country showed in great is under the control of all the armed groups as well. The lives as one of the fighting and tripling was between 2 powerful groups, both backed by the un recognized government. The full 4 full brigade is affiliated with the defense, but the street that is reputed to be libya as most disciplined. It controls the Southern Suburbs of tripoli and other areas. The special, the parents force is an ultra conservative group that access the capitals police force. It controls central and eastern tripoli and the air force. All right, lets get to, i guess, joining us so that us our democracy, who is the front of the director of the Civic Institute before its public policy, think tank in libya from toronto with joined by e. My body. Ive known residency the fellow, the middle east programs of the atlantic council, from san antonio, texas, we joined by non so l q, q, whos a professor of politics at the university of texas, san antonio, and regularly visits libya for research work. Gentlemen, welcome to old and asked, lets start with you. Whats the base between the full 4 full brigade and the special determines forces . One with the left. So i have a rest as a kernel from the full body. Who is my food times a, as well then as a base, as you, but it is down to a number of Different Things and i dont think its going to be critical here. But its a mixture of munition rivalries, you know, and strategic bottles of a key territory and to be a and this backdrop, the better to context and to be where the heavy mamma is not for several months of buying tunnel thoughts between the government and tripoli left by having to pay the 75. 00. So there was right, i mean the roll was going to be 10000. 00 why the reason it would be, i mean, it was initially just dismissed as, as run of the mill. You know administrative beef infrequently, but the temperature of the fighting over isnt some of the most valuable real estates when it comes in terms of the Strategic Ministry and supply lines and logistical roads. Into tripoli, the gates of tripoli, thats in 2019. How they bought their loans as offensive from its also the, the, the, the, the supply routes that were used by the rival administration that was set up in 2020 to the government of national stability. And today, thats over the last few days as being the scene of those of those why the reason i think its curious that the timing of this backdrop, whether it had been sold to the forge a new enter and government between us definitely debate about some of after that kind of political deal is, you know, just splitting up the case, but which of the on goods will remain in tripoli, who controls the valuable real estate. Possibly that that has been able to spiral this discussion and the most valuable real estate is the Old International app that is looking to be launched or re launched in the next several months. Which is in the south of tripoli. Im would move the center of gravity from my ticket, apple, where the s, the after the 1st script, the rest of the kind of im in terms of an intricately would move the center of gravity and influence in the capital towards the side of the area that the full, full, traditionally tackle that the stronghold, and its an area that they have been trying to negotiate with the government of national, easy over that control for the future. So its a mixture of all those different rivalries much more times that should be said. Theres also a lot and as you have to figure out, hes been involved in some of these joint minute for tools and thatd be led by the un over the last year, 2 years. And he has made his, his opinions quite clear about his position over half the when the find him was getting very insensitive of the last few days. We heard of rumors of different on groups coming from minnesota, coming from different pockets around the country, many of whom are all side. And you have to think isnt it . Is thought the spiral from one of those top bottles. And so a 1000 looked like it was going to be a repeat of, of 2019. So i think its, its curious, timing, imap. What, what do you make of it the or do you agree with with us the same groups clashed in may this year by the time the injuries but no deaths. This time, last year, 32 people were killed in tripoli when groups i lied to the the, to rival administrations for this. This weeks violence of me to bear any similarity to that or, or as i asked was saying, is this just part of a tough war . And its complicated, i think, yeah, you can not dissociate things from the political complex. And the overarching dynamics that had a National Level, however, in terms of these classes and in particular, i think theres no direct cause the link between what is what was happening at the National Level in terms of dialogues and positions on softer and on his thumbs up thumbs up on negotiations with the government of National Unit these by minutes after i meet the baby and his relatives. I do think that there are much more local uh, tripoli, triple attaining and dynamics that play as in western living and dynamics that play in terms of the in but does for these classes. In particular. The for, for, for brigade had as had tensions with the s d a for quite a long time. No, not just because of the airport or the triple International Air board opening, etc. But also because the very fact that more times that was formerly a commander of the us, the and effected from the s b as effectively after the tripoli war established quite successfully. Some may argue his own by his own brigade, but no controls. Strategic territory has carpet itself a role, not just in terms of security enforcement, but political dialogues, etc. I wouldnt say that any of the players in western libya right now have a very clear the and the foster stands. I think a lot of them actually are pretty much looking at marginalizing opponents, vanquishing them, absorbing them in some cases. And this is both of both the case for the as the, the special the transport, and more times the maybe the only fact maybe the only fact that differentiate more times as group is the fact that its footprint does indeed extend beyond the tripoli. So as opposed to the mazda supper on the most groups in west or libya, it has several branches in white, strategic cities like many worthy like that are going to and he has even had a, its on patrol, setup bench, with foot cetera. So you clearly see that its an encroaching on areas for addition to the, the are and the point of view of the triple, the tiny and goods or western includes from western libya. And so i think that is what has partly plays into the tensions with the sds, and thats what, thats what part the, the, the glasses now, this isnt the discount the fact that these pensions and the now kind of clear cut rivalry between these 2 groups will not be a politically and whether nice by other actors they can leverage those pensions but, but in terms of a causal link, there wasnt anything there yesterday that lends itself to this adjustment that base was the sort of conspiracy of or, or gets paid by anyone in the back or month. So given what, what the amount is just said, what does it say about the state of, of the country the here you have to on the functions buying for influence. Some control open. Lovely, a piece that kept the piece for the last year, and yet they can fight each other with a heavy weaponry in a densely populated area of the captive, the capital city. A. I c, i, i want to commend this gentleman. The 2nd one who said that he said, because i think his rights on, on the head is very, very right. It is not really so much types of positives as much as the type, the majority of the tubs to yeah. You have oh yeah, that will between songs and tripoli, this is, and this is, this is new. Its been going on the both of those on, on the page many, many, many, what do you have there . Then 10 page company. If its just to areas within, within the west, this is calling much of this its, its a huge problem. So im going to go with a drug, so its been going on for 446700 years. You know, im getting something for a while, but know too much. Again, with each side of having the dishes, you have, you have the issue, youre having trouble, i have been dominated just to have the funny thing. You know, the department is the baby can go to that then you can go to 0. Yeah. You cannot go there as a Prime Minister in those areas which it was ok to security because he has no control in those areas. It is, this is a big part of the fragmentation to say phase of to get back today. Is there any time for any type of unity in the country . I mean, basically, i think this is up to come to the realization that perhaps the not meant to be together. And some of those that im starting to say this, but this is the reality on the graphs surface. So thats all you have to do the, do you think that the libya is perhaps destined to, to, to split, to, to be 2 separate countries that but that theres no hope for united libya . Im sorry to say that i think this is where they would be going one more quick solve this and this and the more, the more it goes off, the more this concept is reinforced. I know one thing for sure. I know its sort of naked, at least the huge moment. Building a new merge right now, whether its in full or those in favor with this question 3 mountain. This is really beginning to the full separation. I really dont like this enough. Weve had enough of this, we could, we, i mean this is whats happening. You have the store full between songs in the, in the, in the west. This is going to take the, to choose a country. And so im going to happen and the more the, the specs as well to the, not the, im the told me the see the most of us that we have in the state as well to acted as a sudden the guy who, you know, you think that she wasnt sure whether its one time a whole and i told that going to typically that she would in fact bring things together. Again. Gnosticism sydney, this is the office unbelievable. Ag, rome. Uh. What does this you want more in the future except bring the country together . You know what . No, no, no, he wants spa probably does cut off enough to do the follow up. Does company correct . Absolutely. No doubt about thats as to what a joy to come in. On, on that date, the head of the African Union voice, great concert over the sizing and said that there is no military solution. Will it be in crisis . In the countries . Unity based ability of historic International Stages can only be regained by peaceful beings. Hes wise, of course, but how can it ever happen . Well, i think, i mean, both of us already pointed to the issue that needs these groups, whether the rest of the east, where they called himself and how many times i mean on the, on whether theyre in the west, and theyve called themselves revolutionaries with the revolution was a long time ago, for the most part there are criminal thats criminal intent, a certainty autonomy to do what they want to do when they want to do it. And for him, they want to do that for. But i want to whitewash all of these pictures, not all of the on groups that have not only on groups for over the last 10 years have just come into many i just fearful of going back to the years that were rolled. Im thinking definitely that one of the time some of drew, i certainly believe an uncertainty conscious of the fact that much more terms a, an engagement with the 5 plus 5. I mean, the last several months has made those points. I started, i think that hes the only one that i think is a good example of someone that has made us point part of the infrastructure. But the reason what youre doing is that the Foreign Ministry starts us with the colon millichef breakup of libya state of play. Nivia is not compatible with the unified states. So im not compatible with a democratic slide because im not neutral. Supp, serbian bodies that will serve an elective government, that being calibrated to be controlled by the phillip after and the he store of time in the, in the west or whichever political entrepreneur, sorry, is this happened to the card. They need to start from the Building Block and of the solution that youre asking for, really, to destroy and disrupt, or the very least try to reform these bodies. But the reality is, is that youre not going to get anywhere unless you try to disrupt these bones to apply them together. City state militias in the cities. But months old was mentioning the areas that i might have been talking about, but each ariel, each part i thought of tripoli itself was a great a triplet, tiny, a re, is controlled by the shots. That is not, that is not consistent with, with the kind of army in neutral services or Security Services that would be compatible with an electric government. And if we think of it that way, they want to be compatible with governments that are appointed by these supplies. Theyre going to be an artist if you want to start from some of really a lot of us. That button is idealistic because the u. N. As in trying to work towards the end of trying to is in a scratch the surface clean and start with a fresh mutual military force and a neutral police service. Its working with what is already got. Its working with got the groups that ive sent, but these are religion says and is trying to calibrate them towards these leadership and thats what kind of work in the long run front of us. So i would certainly say that, but i think putting your finger on the pulse, the responsibility that was on to you and to build the architecture for that. So not but of the size is ministry tracts that are looking to unify 2 different groups that are not consistent with the color. The 2nd does that you talk. Busy to buy them around and a point of government that would be a 7th of the last decade. It doesnt need that. It needs an electric government to an option in the bins a wedding for that. And in terms of, of separation, i would cast that on there are certainly groups there, but when they were that they might know its a groups. My son is now minority groups that have done this. I think its linked to just the minister of our lives. And tripoli, i mean we shouldnt from right, we should, we shouldnt forget that the parliament in the east was burned down in some upright tests. And as the parliament that besides when or when we dont have elections based on the election laws, they set the constitutional basis. The 2 most things that we can have elections, everyone opposite the factor, but these are, these are the main structural causes that are impeding this progress forward. And i see i read it today that if we think about going to get as libyans in a personal capacity, or if you think that were going to get state hubs for eastern libby or wisdom, india get in line of the un security council. You have many, many groups, the 4 you might need even the end of the sequence. And the best separate has, might be a head of the libyans that dont have a national cause. When it comes down to what they ask for the groups, the screaming the loudest us for oil cost for us for Digital Government often. Busy busy we recognize, nationally, in that its sort of, its an indication that the International Community has actually failed. As far as libya is concerned. This is the outside world interested enough in libya. What more could, should it be doing . Youd be, in cases, definitely want to see a real failures of the, of the International Community. And a definitive case of you when i would say failure in multilateralism said youre overtime since says 20 since 2011. Essentially its a, its been a downward trends in a spinal spiraling trend for people. Theyre into violence. I would single out the, the chair and dr. The special represent the, the secretary general as a be, i would. But i would call diplomatically a very complacent in terms of how this mediation has gone next. If any, over the political process, the political process now is in shambles. There is absolutely no direction to it that you, when is a, the main main talking point is displayed towards the cost of the board of elections with little to no actual about the i just, i, i just want to point point out that even, i mean, hes not here to defend himself here, so i mean, i want to make that that, that point clear, but yes, carry on. Absolutely. But i do think hes been in listening mode far too long. So you clearly see him doing field visits and actually doing some of the work that would pave the way for something. But every time you wait on actually something to be formalized in a dial up to be institutionalized. There hasnt been much there. So, and that leaves the, the country to be praised upon by the, for the very forces that were talking about here. I, the military actors, the political enter bernards that dont have the countrys best interest at heart. So its no surprise that none of them are really supportive of actual election. And as a band i suffered because for the past 10 to 12 years, they dominate the, the, the scene. And they know that people are fed up with them. In most cases, at least for the parliament in the High State Council and some of the controversial figures and that they would never be voted that. So its, its a very honestly frustrating cycle for a month for a lot of people. And now the bar is so low that theyre very happy with a small, like very basic things. The very, very basic stability and very artificial stability is that the current government is, is, is providing or the government of National Unity over the stability. As pointed out by these classes can sometimes be in the loop because what with this government is, is doing is its essentially attempting to recreate, duffy system, revenue distribution, a lot of handouts, a lot of a social safety. And thats a lot of patriots, not the patronage structures a lot of corruption, but its trying to recreate that with a very different Security System with no monopoly unplugged. And so you have these tensions that will ultimately lead a role between the groups, particularly in western libya, but this is as valid for western living as it is for eastern libya. Because i do think that in eastern look at the tensions between a private interests or structures in the east are very much there with the governing structures. From a security standpoint, i. E, heavy for how far and his sons, therefore, yeah, this illusion of stability has to, at some point on russell and the con, rumbling will unfortunately be violent if there is no meaningful political direction for or in house, for people to actually discuss, cast their votes. Ideally, and a like who they want, and this isnt the say the elections will be a policy either. They need to be properly regulate, that there needs to be an accompanying particularly security plan in order for them not to be re. Wed also want to end up in a 11 unlike scenario where we have arm Group Leaders and relatives as long as weve selected. Okay, i, i will come on to election suggested by the 1st month. So i just want to the question i put to him at the, on it head, when i said, is the outside world interested enough in, in, in libya and all that actually, to many people middling and live benefits at the moment we mentioned uh, front steve, a russia, uh, turkey. I mean the other just the just too many people uh, missing in libby in the fence. Yes. Reminds me of the, for the, with the out of had this out of the, among, out of the buckles in them. And i mean, they the different against the, the sylvia, the inside of these, against the junctions there. Its unbelievable the same thing with libya. What, what is all had to do . Was im gonna have to go to do that. Ill tell you, i mean you, after a reading buddy performed the question, and this is telling me you wouldnt be the best plans the end. Yes, i think it really of that to me. Youre not being united nations. Im the, im the prosecutors a whole really i like a i called them but, but my put my term, put them is that if you marry my mother, i told your dad, in this case, no, as long as i have a government that i can talk with doesnt matter what kind of government did this, it cant be to the 2nd to do it. This is mrs. Flores, this is the overall weight of looking at things. I mean, i was just an accomplice the sometime ago, a Stephanie Williams junior high and duration to say, well, we have to have elections it. Whats. I mean we havent used actions. I want to be having, having Service Coming and coming power. I mean, the bank has no quarter the gauges to be a prime is up to the be what do you have a 23 in the say. I mean you have individuals for the key. No, no this, theres no sense of just belong to me. This is nikia, i killed her bucket and the dont care about the why the actually into the community do that either. So what does that asked the when had hoped that much to lead to elections could have been held this year due to the relative stability in the country. Is there any chance of that happening anytime soon . Do you think the rules of the game of rigs in this election because the system itself as being rig so allows for these dr. Apartments that continue to claim that arrivals, but has conspired the spot conflict despite compet of to, despite what many of oblivious conflicts have looked like. All of these different enemies come together in the enemies of benefits, not just friends of the benefits that individual, the proposed to be individual benefits. Somebody, they should have the spoils and they continue to allow you to, to run around this married, go around with the illusion that because they caught, i agreed to elections that they call and happen. And it wasnt going to have a unit. The government was quite curious that they can use it for the interest when it comes to share in the spoils of war. But they call unified their interest when they have to let go a power. That is, that is the, the irony of the case today. And i think when it comes to the libyans, malik, its quite interesting. There was a pole done by doing research at the end of 2021, towards the, towards the deadline. And the 24th of december elections. And the so interesting the, i dont know if i got 14 percent they got more than most of the candidates that have said they, i guess all of the end of the bottom and go one of the office on less than one percent. Rather for the short of the strong men of the west. So one of the hop percent kind of a half that despite controlling decent libya and running and then everyone starts to get more than a southern percent. Its the irony. Busy owner, these individuals know that if they, even if they were just on for elections with enough time, they wouldnt get cost as far as so i think maybe in that desperate for a choice to move forward. But the system is written against. Okay. And then you went into the system to direct against them. Its a shame. All right, i have a very quick concept for you. Im from you, but i, weve got about a minute left. Im in no elections any time. Soon as the guy how i agree, essentially there wouldnt be any elections any time soon. Part of that thats because of what done was mentioned in terms of the system being would. What is worrying, however, is the increase and i would say the level that both the on groups and the politicians now now live in a lot of the things that existed between the on the on groups where at some point close at the civilians to day with these types of glasses that you see with that we use of heavy weaponry, etc. You click, do you see that the, those links are sub, have been separate to even on the areas where they have that were revolutionized phone call because are all right, thats okay. Months of that final question to you, the libyans have any goals for hope right now the things will get better hope is always there, but it seems continues to be, oh, nothing else. I mean give you the situation on the ground. I dont see much feature anymore. This is, im sorry to say this, but this is the reality. Its, oh no, im wrong, nothing, nothing reason to just see the country come together for the country. Its shame for it for the, for 2 years that the previous dictator had that thats already spent. And now we pay is due, okay, and this is, this is what we have gentlemen, that weve extended Manufacturing Day to it will on us of democracy in my body and months. So l t, shell even see the program again at any time by going to the websites. Ill just here a dot com. So the discussion join us about Facebook Page at facebook dot com, forward slash ha. Inside story out. Of course, you can join the conversation on x fully notice twitter handle of a inside story from me, adrian said again, the team here and go home. Thanks for watching. Well see you again the when the news breaks, the story of this village is the same as many of us spread across the Eastern Front line. No electricity, no running water, when people need to be hurt. And the story needs to be told this children are unable to go outside inside is extreme. You hook with exclusive intervenes and in depth reports lowes. People expect to be wiped out all together by now. Ill just see right. Has teams on the ground to bring you more Award Winning document trees and light news. And this is time for the west to replace the best option for the ukraine washer war. And what would those options look like . What is us strategy when it comes to iran for almost 200 years, americans have generally been stuck with 2 political choices, but cannot ever change because it comes with us politics developed in law. So falls factory has survived in an area with thousands of all those have been a band and yet hes the last one and these extended family left holding onto the profession. That is thousands of years old because of Impulse Health business has been declining. These newly made put some pictures need to be left into some for a few days until the dried off. They are in put here into this often to be heated at about 1500. 00 degrees celsius for about 20 hours. But it is part of, you know, cultures heritage. So even if it declines as a profession, extend flourishes as quotes or a. We look at the worlds top disney storage, from Global Markets to economies and a Small Business sales force and including security around the World History or something that the International Community your view should be doing to understand how it affects counting the cost on which is 0 the you want to, ill just bear with me. So robin in the lines of all the top, new stories, thousands leaving the capital of canada as northwest territories. As a fast moving wildfire and makes his way to yellow noise. Its the worst wildfire season in canada with more than a 1000 fires budding nationwide. There is a possibility that without rain, the fire reaches the outskirts of yellowknife by the weekend. It is approaching, but theres time to complete the community evacuation