A group of religious need is from nigeria is met, new jasmine if he really lives in the capsule, naomi by side of the community. The told them is open to exploring diplomacy and piece of the race has more from the nigerian town of cad sienna, in the border with news. Yeah. What were here now is that the military leaders i showed literally just need is that they are willing to poke and that thats what only happened if that course extend an invitation to them. Right now is yeah, doesnt have the opportunity to approach a course directly. Simply because it is suspended like many other countries, why clothes of taking place. Now, that could be the window of opportunity to resolve this. I Mean Companies through diplomatic means, but its not something. What, of course, what happen from now on to the devastating wildfires in hawaii, all the was the scene in more than a century. At least 93 people have died. The desktop, its expected to rise. A 1000 people all still missing. One person has been killed in a gama tank of the shrine in iran, and now the 7 people have been injured. Security forces have detained the suspect, and now the reserve pulls into his skate. The same size ensure as was targeted in october, 13 people were shot dead, argentinians evaluating the primary to decide the preferred president ial candidates in october as general election, soaring inflation, rising poverty and crime as some of the main issues that have dominated the campaign. Vivia has moved at least a 130 migrants to a Detention Center in the capital tripoli. It follows an agreement between libya and soon as you have to share responsibility for hundreds of microphones. Stranded on the board, the ukraine says at least 6 people, including a newborn baby have been killed by russian shelling. This is time for the west to replace the best options for the ukraine rush of war. And what would those options look like . What is us strategy when it comes to iran for almost 200 years, americans have generally been stuck with 2 political choices, but cannot ever change. Because it comes with us politics. The bottom line. The hes recognized as one of the fathers of Artificial Intelligence. Joshua ventures work in the 1990s in 2000 has contributed to the foundations of chatbox. Like open a eyes chart and google bars. Born in france and 1964 and you, you grew up in canada where he began programming as age 11, inspired by Science Fiction literature and tv shows today. And you as one of the biggest voices warning the World Without the necessity of having control and regulations on a technology. More than fueling machines turning evil. And you is more concerned about how humans might choose Artificial Intelligence to harm others. In march p and other prominence a i, scientists find them thats are urging Tech Companies to pause a development until the industry can agree on regulations and alongside reading a personalities are you. Im all day. And stewart trussel, he testified before a us congressional hearing warnings at the front of the case of a i development in the wrong hands could be used to create biological weapons. So is in existence will spread to humanity or is it a tool that will transform our life for the better computer scientists, joshua benji, you talk of the 0, the, sorry. What is the whole, well, seem to be talking about, hey, i right now, whats changed . I had been reading about the potential dangers of losing control of a i for the last decade. But i didnt pay so much attention because they thought that it was so far into the future decades or even centuries. Because the systems weve been building in academia are really, really stupid. I discovered the idea of neural networks. In other words, research and Artificial Intelligence that is inspired by the brain when i was looking for a subject for my grade studies, 1985. And it was a passion right away. I thought this was really uh, something i wanted to do. Um, i was excited by the idea that there would be a few simple principles like the laws of physics that could, you know, help us understand intelligence and build intelligence machine. So i was interested in, well, so i caught a brain works as well as the i and in those days, the idea that intelligence could be understood by the few mathematical principles which one was very marginal. But the last 2 decades really give us a lot of evidence that to its probably true, which it means is easier than people stop in those days to build Intelligent Machines and to understand the brain and the last few years. Whats happened is that because of the billions of dollars that are being put into deep learning by industry, we have collectively discovered that the larger we make those systems, the better they are. So it doesnt stop getting better. And more recently with jarens of the i both of images and text, weve passed the kind of what the differential so its not just like, oh, it gets better now. Its like as good as, as ads painting the picture and understanding language to some extent, that fools at least most of us, most of the time. So thats extraordinary. Is that, that, you know, in 1950 island during maybe you could call the father of Computer Science design. This test that you was thinking, he would have reached schuman level intelligence. If we can build machines that we interact with. And we can say if its the machine or ceiling, actually we know that the current, the high systems are still lacking some things, at least i and many others think so. But we might not be very far from, from that level of positive. And the Artificial Intelligence is that are being developed now, whats different about them . If you look at systems like chat, jp sign, typically speaking, that doesnt seem to be a lot that is really new. Its really the scale at which these systems are built. How much data, trillions of words, the fraction of the, all the texts on the internet would take tens of thousands of lifetimes of human reading to, to get all that information and, and the corresponding scale of these models with true units of knobs, that can be set thats huge, its still smaller than the brain. But, but these knobs are very precise much more than yours analysis. So yeah, is scale. Its engineering something we couldnt do the, you know, it could be in. Yeah. And the fact that it works so well suggest that there may be just a few elements that especially related to reasoning that were still missing. Its hard to say when will figure them out, but it could come quickly. I dont think society is ready for that. And so to id seen you one joint they the, the tearing award. Busy was a full wont be doing deep learning so that the, the drink prize was given to jeff, incident younger kind of myself because of our contributions to the feel of deep learning. The claim determined, we figured out how to train you on. Thats, that would be able to represent richer things. I worked a lot on language, young work a lot on images. Jeff had some of the early ideas to train many layers of me on that. Some that i eventually found that there was a simpler way using traditional methods with some little tricks. My group also found the method of introducing attention which has turned out to be essential and really transformed natural language system. Just like the ones we see today. So would that be to be to without thats work in charge of you would not exist with the work weve done. And of course, you know, science is the contribution to many, many people its, its engineering, its, its scale, but its also algorithms that did not exist 20 years ago. So in may 2033 you and about 350 other people signed statements warning about the dangers of a i why did you do that fairly young during the winter playing with child c p t i started wearing that maybe were not far and what would be the consequences and i started reading more of the research thats being done to study whether we can build machines that we will not lose control of that we can control fully. And the horrible realization is we dont know how to do that yet. After a decade of research trying to figure it out. And i dont think we have another decade before we reach the point where our machines are smarter than us. Maybe we maybe, maybe its gonna take more time, but at the rate at which were progressing, i dont think so. So its time to raise the alarm a, you know, we should have done it before, but it, it, it is challenging fee that made it obvious for everyone, but also for scientists like me and even for the people whove been in, in the middle of the construction of the systems that we are at a point where its urgent for society to think through and be wise about how we prevent catastrophes, how this is going to be used for what purpose . How do we make sure it doesnt blow up in our face . What kind of catastrophes are you thinking about . I mean, theres only harm thats being done by i because that these systems, i dont do what we intends. This is called the alignment problem. And if people have build systems that were intended to do well in say, face recognition. But if they didnt intend that they would behave badly on people of color. But this is what has happened. Now this misalignment between what the humans want and what the machine does can actually get worse as the machines have more capabilities. Let me give you some, some examples from Science Fiction space. How do you see . Because one holland 1000, its smarter than that, at least on some levels. Its smarter than the the os or not. So there are there hands. It has a mission, some military mission. And having such a goal means that it, it, it, it cant allow it to be turn can, can be a cant allow that, itd be turned off, it wants to preserve itself to be able to achieve its mission. So when the asymptotes think that there is something maybe going wrong with, with the eye, and think of turning it off, how kills one of them and wants to kill the other one and kill the others. So it, as soon as the machine has self preservation goals, um and, and, and if these goals are specific sufficiently strong compared to other goals, then there theres a chance that what the machine, once im done, what we watch, what we need to are not going to be a line and someone was, this machine isnt smart enough, like, you know, there are, every living being wants to survive, but theyre not smarter than us. But these machines are smarter than us, than we are potentially in danger. So this, this alignments problem. We have it all around us, Companies Making contracts with each other, rebuild machines that dont do exactly what we want, but when windows system is becoming really powerful, this can turn really bad. Before we get there. There other things that may be at least as wary some because it might happen before we even get that chance, which is humans intentionally using very powerful guy systems for the various reasons. So the example that was raised at the us senate and that i, i being also talking about his bio weapons right now. It takes a lot of expertise to, to design and you, dangerous virus. So very few people in the world can do it. And that the bad guys typically dont have that expertise, but you can internal gates chat, g p, t, or maybe the next version and get enough information that you would not otherwise have to design such such dangerous pathogens. At least this is the path in which we are, it might be just a couple of years with this as possible. And the bad news is we dont really know how to design these systems to make sure theyre not going to output things that could be dangerous. That could help bad actors, for example, it could help them with my what does it could help them with bio, with chemical weapons, could help them with cyber attacks. We can think of many kinds of scenarios. And of course, one thing that squares, some even, you know, shorter is the next us selection or other elections around the world, which could matter where it doesnt seem far fetched to think that you take Something Like these large language models, the state of the art and you can just tune them a little bit and it doesnt take millions of, of, uh, expensive machines that computer. You can tune them a little bit for task like be a tool thats gonna push the needle in and you know, and change peoples opinions just enough to win the election. Is democracy safe . And then i, oh i well, no, no, and its not because of the, the, i just because of humans. And because once you give very powerful tools to humans the, they will use them and all the possible bad ways. So long as the tools or nots are so powerful, there are other humans who can account for that. And we have the police and we have the military and we have, you know, all kinds of ways to protect ourselves. But if those tools become so powerful that when kids kill means of people with, with them, like like Nuclear Weapons. So what do we do with new carpets . Do we make Nuclear Weapons available to everyone . No, we, we dont do with that obviously. And. And so now its like we are at the point where we can see in coming years that will have Something LikeNuclear Weapons, except that it doesnt require 2 material. It just requires software and hardware and the software can be downloaded and the hardware can be bought when robot often, honda created the fast, somebody wont be famously said that he become dest, the destroyer of wells, as a creator of a hi. Do you know how he felt . I wasnt there obviously but, but i can imagine and, and he and others because it was a group thing that community of people working together really, really thought that they had to do it because they were afraid that the germans would build a bomb and it would be worse. So it is not an easy moral situation in which they, they were one thing that is interesting and maybe there are some houses that a lot of scientists, the i scientists are now like yourself are now realizing who we have something more dangerous than we expected in our hands and we have contributed to that. What it means for me and, and i think thats what happened. Open timer is, we also have a responsibility to speak up and say, this is dangerous. We need to be very careful. And we can just, you know, go, there are useful ways this is, um, this is something that requires a wisdom that requires a democratic discussion so that we take the right decision. You spend much of your career developing. I. So did you have any regrets about the direction that is going on your role in it . Well, regrets maybe if i had known how things would enroll, i would have started thinking about the safety earlier. But i didnt dissipate to the, the speed at which things moved. Um, so maybe regret is not the right words is more i, i feel compelled to do something about it. I feel like people who understand how these things work have an extra duty to think about how we can uh yeah, preserves humanity in democracy. So thats, thats what i want to do. Lets talk about that then. How. How do we present it . How do we put the right breaks on until the right regulations in place . So 1st we need to high rate because as i said, the chances that these systems could be used as soon as in the coming year or 2 and. And then as they get stronger, the danger grows. So what can we do . The most immediate danger i think is not loss of control. The most immediate danger are malicious uses. So we want to reduce the number of people who have access to dangerous technology. Frankly, i dont think that the strategy of making your trained models and code available to everyone is wise at least there is a fresh hole where we should say though, this is too dangerous. And i made like little calculations that say Something Like, if we reduce the, the number of people who have access to these systems, uh, by say, a 1000 times we can win almost as much and the probability of something bad happening so. So the 1st thing we need to do, we need to control access. We need to have licensing. So we need that the people who are license to operate these systems also have duties of documenting what they are doing and using tests to evaluate the potential harm as well as what is that they are doing to mitigate those homes and potentially not be allowed to deploy something that could be dangerous. So its by something done, release the card as well as the 1st thing. Yes. But we also need to license the people and organizations that are going to be developing these things. Kind of big Tech Companies that are developing. I be the only ones to be overseeing it. So what do we need governments in, but now its clear that it needs government and i think whats going on right now in the us with the commitments that companies. Uh, some companies ive, ive taken is a good step but, but it is good to the extent that we dont have a destination yet. It, we need legislation for a number of reasons. We need legislation because you have to apply to every company and we need a station to clarify, whered you put the bar . Because right now its just like some nice words. A will be careful. But no, we need some concrete benchmarks that say this, this you can this, you can put an open source but is open source is a good thing, but this is too dangerous or this system could be exploited by a terrorist. And so no, this is not acceptable but it, but this has to be quantified and its going to take some effort. Those Companies Already building those kinds of tests. So its not like were starting from 0. But we need to make that a the same for all the companies, then we can stop at the us. It has to be something that we do for the whole world, especially right now the countries where there is capacity for larger systems, notably china and some European Countries in the u. K. Ah, france, germany. But ultimately, every country, because if they are regulations in a few countries that say youre not allowed to do that, you can just, you know, software and hardware is you need to bring it in, who, in a different country. And then computer viruses or biological viruses dont see borders or anything just go through. So ultimately we need International Treaties with the National Community coming in and setting up a minimal guard rails for safety for everyone. The other thing we need is research because we dont even know it for sure how to make a lot of bills. Par for our systems, are sites that are not going to become autonomy. Is that by themselves that, that can be exploited for the various purposes. We dont know how to do that, theyre different proposals, Different Companies do things, but really theres a lot of unknowns. And so what ive asked the senate is we need to invest globally, can be companies, governments, some mix, at least as much on protecting the public democracy, humanity. Now the word safety as we are in improving the intelligence, the capabilities of these guys systems. Right now is, i dont know is probably a ratio of a 100 to one. So thats, thats like the urgent thing that is an investment to protect us so that we can design the rights regulation in the 1st place. And then the other recommendation i have is also maybe a little bit longer term, but even if we have regulation is not going to be full proof somewhere. Someone is going to do something stupid, but maybe intentionally, maybe unintentionally. And we need prepare for that. What kind of Counter Measures should we start doing research on thinking that there will be dangerous, a eyes with malicious goals of there and, and maybe a few years. How long do we have to, to get this right . Well, the problem is we dont know the rate at which things are going to progress, but we need to plan for the works. And that could be just a few years, maybe 34. 00, or 5 years. If were lucky, maybe its going to be 20 years. But i cant say, and we dont want to bet tremendous future or, you know, huge catastrophes and we know its reckoning democracy on. Oh, this scientists thing is going to be trainers this scientist thinks is going to be 5 years. No, we, we have to, the stakes are so high, we have to, we, we invest in protection as soon as possible. Has this made you think differently about your search and the avenues that you want to take it . Yes, yes, and im not yet completely sure. What i should do, but im sure i need to change my path. I research them so clearly i want to spend a lot more time working on the safety. So this theres already rich registrar. I need to like read a lot more than i have already. I need to see where i can help the most. I also would like to help with the contra measures because thats sort of maybe the more technical thing. Im not, im not a policy person. Im a, im a computer scientist. And um, yeah, and, and, and also thinking of what kinds of organizations are needed and to carry that kind of research. Moving forward is a i q mount as ease grades of strengths. Do you think we need different people to work on different threats and we need to deal with time of change as Climate Change is much more predictable than the dangers of a on the world is not gonna know so completely crazy in the next 5 years with Climate Change is going to get worse and worse slowly. So in the long run we need to do that and then just start now seeing with a i is theres a lot more in search and see. So we need to do a lot more research, but we need to also start the preventative measures now. So or because of my expertise, and i, you know, ive been working on the, i to fight Climate Change and id like to continue that kind of work. But, but i feel like where i can make the most difference is in protecting the public the, [000 00 00;00] the, when much day a right, the 3 normally comes to life with football is not all they shout about a club west societies disenfranchised of the loudest voice. And political defense take center stage they on the roof goes resistance. The officers of roger, casablanca, defends, who make football on which is the big going drunk change and crypto currency. Its Disruptive Technology to join with me and introducing a bill to outlaw crypto currency. All the way to a federal financial system, open source software, we can create our monies without things. A government Award Winning filmmaker toast and huffman looked at all sides of the complex crypto crypto. The queen look, james, and the engine on ocean sarah. There are some of the media stories, a critical look at the global news media on how to 0 government shut off access to social media. The or im sammys. I that and all how the look at the headlines here now just they are now. The group of religious need is from nigeria says nice it and these as minute tribute is open to diplomacy. Delegation, how talks with qu, leaders in the capital in the army. They say general of the non duty on a express, the willingness to engage with the Regional West African block echo was the block