Pulled out of the black sea grain deal. Ukraine says russian, i was a tank 26 pool facilities in the past 9 days. So them clearly was following developments from stumble on the same day. Thats washington pro, strikes a major ukrainian ford and all of us are region. Curtis president s are just type as juan and whos watching counterparts. Legend recruiting has a phone conversation. And that conversation, which was announced earlier by a passcode cremeans person at prisons put in, announced that he would continue with the rain deal like the rain Deal Initiative as long as the west keeps its promises for us. President donald trump has been indicted for attempts to overturn the results of the 2020 president ial election. Its trumps. 3rd criminal indictment this year. Its been someone to appear before a federal judge on thursday. So jerry and so right in the capital, the boozer and the commercial capital lagos, against the rising cost of living, the price of petrol, another goods of sold since the government scrapped fuel subsidies. At least 20 people have died when a boat capsized in lake victoria. And uganda risky cruise assessing for survivors. Please say that with 34 on board, the boat was overloaded with charcoal fresh food and fish went ahead by the weather. So the goal has expended, picked talk, stays off to cutting off mobile Internet Access during opposition process. The government says the social media app is being used to spread hateful and subversive messages were suppressing the stability of the country. The rest of opposition lead. It was men sancho, on friday, spawn days of unrest as a lo, in fighting between rival factions and the launch is promising in refugee comfortable living on the killing of a high ranking fund commander on sundays spot. The rocket font and gun bottles in the on how, how do i come . Ok, youre up to date. Those are the headlines. So theyve got a website. I was there a dont. Com is for the latest on all of our top story state shooting. The stream is up. Next. It around australia for tens of thousands of years then disappeared. Now scientists the working to bring the tasmanian tank a back from the dead. 101 east investigates on ill just say around the high and send me ok today on the screen we all thinking about we think how does that brain block and how can we make it . What and little bit back to you might already be doing some of the techniques were going to be talking to you about. This is a picture back here, pretty much sums up the last week of me preparing for this show. I am not intending to do all the heavy lifting by myself. I am bringing on the guests and we do a so you can meet them and they can tell you who they are and what they do. Hello, i need jean at dominic. So good to have you on a introduce yourself to add stream audience. The sir. Im any murphy, paul, im a writer, a Science Writer who writes about learning and cognition. And im the author of a book called the extended mind, the power of thinking outside the brain and you in spite our entire conversation. Thanks for that. Hi, gina. Great to have you on the stream. Tell everybody who you are. Im what you do. Hello. Nice to be here. Thank you. My name is gina poll. Im a narrow scientist at new c l. A. And i do research on the function of sleep for learning and memory. Great to have you and dominate. Welcome to the stream, introduce yourself to our international for us. My names dominic packer. Im a professor of psychology at lehigh university, which is in bethlehem, pennsylvania. And im an expert on Group Dynamics and how peoples identities shape how they think feel in pain. So i guess im gonna give you a couple of rapid fire questions, which really helped me to prepare for the show. I know youre going into the office like this. All right, so when a, what is the mind . The mind generally refers to the box. We have the motions, we feel the perceptions we have of the world, how we make sense of things as a key distinction to be made with the rest with regard to the mind such that some of those are things were conscious of. So we are aware of our thoughts or feelings what we, what we believe about something. But a lot of the mind is also non conscious or very rapidly process conclusions we reach without necessarily having realized how exactly we reached it. So thats the mind. Gina, whats the brain . The brain is the organ by which the mind thinks and acts and interacts with the world. It is the organs through which we sense everything and it is the organ through which we do everything. It is s our brain is our mind. Ok, add a, the best metaphor that you have either created yourself or youve heard, or youve read about how our brain actually works as well. We tend to think of the brain is like a workforce that we just sort of keeps logging until it gets the job done. But i like to think of the brain as more like an orchestra conductor. Thats at the heart of everything. Its bringing in resources from here and there and creating, you know, beautiful music. All right, so what i guess i knows i know this topic. What would you like to austin about . How do we get more out of outbreak . If you on youtube, you can be part of todays discussion and Comment Section is right that im expecting youre pretty and questions, no pressure. The shows thoughts right now. I mean, lets talk 1st of all about how you feel that most of us use our brain. You with science why to so you, you write a lot about the way that we think the way that we use our thoughts, the way that we use our brains out of most of us can use as well. To go back to this question of metaphors. I think many of us think of our brains as like a computer that we just speed information into and then the, the output, you know, it is the result. Or we think of it as like a muscle that its something that we have to keep exercising to, to get stronger. But the reason the metaphor of the orchestra conductor is more helpful is that we actually dont sync with our brains alone. We think with our bodies, with the spaces in which we learn and work with them that are interactions with other people with our tools like our, our smartphones and other technological devices. So that really broadens the idea of what thinking is when we acknowledge that all these other resources are part of the thinking process. So many i see and not, and go ahead. I completely agree. I think the idea that, and is exploring in your book, especially that so much of our thinking exist outside of the individual mind or the individual brain involves other people as well as technologies and devices. This is a super interesting one, and research has is exploring how outsourcing, at least a lot of the thinking that we do affects the conclusions that people reach or the way in which their, their minds want to. Im just thinking, digging in my system, walk around, thinking about how were thinking that it just happens unless, unless something happens and then we have an injury or we have something thats not quite firing, right . Why did you think that is . Its almost like we take out blank. Yeah. And if we do take our great brains for granted. And its only when we do have a head injury or something happens to our physical brain, oregon that we realized so much of who we are so much of our personality and what we know our memories, a consciousness really lies in this few pounds of flesh. But this brain is not disconnected from the world, at least most of the time. We have our sensors, but its low end to our brain through our bodies. And that includes our sense of space and nature. I sense of others and our ability to connect and reach out to them. So i think its a beautiful book and a murphy, paul, its really well read around written. It was a lot of fun to read. It was well researched and i take my hat off to you. I enjoyed every minute of reading it and thats not usually the case when im reading things related to related to my field. I usually dont read books and so this one was really, really a delight. Thank you. I mean, what nature invites it extended mind powers thinking outside the brain. What, what was the, what was the inspiration . What, what did you think . Like i need to write a book about how we need to think outside of the might outside as a by well, so i have 2 sons who are school aids. And i got very interested in how they learn in the science of learning. And in my research and reporting on the science of learning, i started to notice a bunch of different fields that were all looking at how these outside the brain resources. Its a factor into our thinking. And then i happen to come across a journal article by 2 philosophers that propose this idea of the extended mind, which is the idea that we dont just stick with our brains alone. We actually extend our thinking process. The c is out into the world with our bodies, with spaces, with other people. And that to me, tied together a lot of the Research Findings that i was finding so interesting. At part of your research, she discovered piece of running. Oh, look at the go ahead, dana, go ahead. I just wanted to say i see annie, that you are talking with your hands, which is pretty recommendations of your book. So yeah, i havent started adopting that to even though were seated here, were not taking a walk which would be even better. So at least we are using our bodies. And what that does to our brain is it puts it in a mode where we can learn better. Actually we can, we learn best through teaching. And then when were teaching it for actors, we are learning even better. Our brain is in this state called the state of state, which is about 5. 00 to 10. 00 waves per 2nd that occur in our hippa campus, which is our rapid learning structure in our brain associated learning. So when we put things together and when we move, our hipaa campus goes into a theater state, which is really best for learning. So let me show here one of the people who inspired me to write a book. And this gentlemans called peter ryan, a. Hes a neuro ethics professor for the university of British Columbia and he explains what gina was just explaining that how our brain can then use of the things to help us think back to operate back to pieces please. Thats a much better explanation that i have. So serious, i mentioned the following scenario. A few weeks ago, you made an appointment to see the dentist, lets say for next tuesday and Tuesday Morning you wake up and you realize that out todays the day i can see that that is but youre not for, was it the appointment at 2 oclock or 3 oclock. Well fortunately, you also noted this type of disappointment in a diary either a paper diary or in your fault for example. And you go a new check. That diary and you find out that the appointment is at 2 oclock. What youve done is actually a very smart thing for several reasons. First of all, biological memory is unfortunately, so toria, sleep unreliable for details like this. On the other hand, the diary is a perfect source of storing and record recalling that kind of information. But more importantly, what youve done is youve offloaded the cognitive work of remembering to the diary rather than taxing your biological brain with that same task. And by doing so, we open up space for that biological brain to do what it does best make decisions of abstract starch, creativity, and that is the future. So our extensions cause the app already. So through the hands its, i do orders as high as surroundings using the surroundings. Like a diary peter was saying that it could be relationships. Collaborations with people told me that can you give us an example . Going to make everybody give us an example. So we can see this happening in daily life as like to stipulate, like im going out of fashion and im going to die if i did something with my hands to many of the t for sure. Well ill, ill continue with the technological example so, so the example of a smartphone, we know all carry them around and increasingly use the not just to make phone calls and also keep track of data, but for taking photographs. And the more we walk around the world and take photographs more, we are potentially outsourcing the memories of the things that weve seen and events we experience. And theres actually research now on the effects that can have on your memory for events, say your touring museum and you see art. And as you walk around, instead of simply looking at the art, you take photographs of, of the art and especially your favorite pieces. How that affects your memory, then for that event. And what you find is that people are using a phone or a camera generally to record the events. There is always out sourcing the memory and the experience of the events and it changes the way they remember it. Changes the way they can later on recollect what they saw. And the reason it does so at least in part is because as you take those photos, youre paying attention to the situation in a different way. So by using that technology and outsourcing the memory, youre also potentially outsourcing a part of the experience. And by suspecting what, what its like in the moment and, and then what do you experience later on . I have lots of you 2 questions for you. I guess im going to get you to austin pretty quickly if you can. I need some people are not getting quite what brain capacity means. Is it possible to run out of brain space . Well, you know, you brought on peter rider who just gave that that very interesting example a minute ago. And it was peter who introduced me to the idea that the biological brain is maybe running at full capacity at this point. Meaning we are using every bit of our brain to deal with our really complicated modern world. And thats the only way to transcend the limits of the biological brain which evolved to do, you know, very Different Things from what we ask you to do in our modern world of symbols and abstract ideas. The only way to transcend those limits is to bring in these external resort, says like the body like spaces, like other people just, i mean to, to offer an example of my own. Theres an interesting phenomenon known as trends active memory. Whereas where, which refers to the fact that in a group. So you can share memory in such that each individual has access to the memory of all the people in the group we, nobody can know everything, but everybody in a group can have their own specialty. And when you know what other people know you have access to what you know as well or yeah, and its fascinating anyhow, when you talk and recollects a and an event with your friends, they might have a very different recollection of something than you do. And the active recollecting to gather hope, to bring up that memory, and then incorporate all of your friends recollections into your memory. And then when you re consolidate that memory, which occurs in while you sleep that next night, you re consolidate their memories in with your own. And hopefully as a group, you all will remember more accurately than any one memory that jason wants to know. Gina, what causes forgetfulness, and how could he avoid it . This occurs if 1st of all you didnt have all the systems working in the 1st place when you were trying to remember, for example, or you werent paying enough attention. So, neurotransmitter called acetylcholine in your brain, helps you remember things in the 1st place. And a seat of cooling comes on line when your brain is in that data state that i talked about before and, and when we are actively attending to something. Another thing that helps our best, remember, better in the 1st place is to tag a memory with another parent transmitter called north an aspirin. And thats something were researching in my laboratory right now. What does nora afteren do to help us kind our memory so that we consolidate them . Well while we sleep and then dont forget them later. Dustin, i have the answer to question. Let me bring in chris. Chris wanted to talk about how he changed the way he was thinking, doing the cause of pandemic. And i, and now im particularly doing locked down. Im reading entry, i guess by how he think our brains have changed. J knocked down and when we are, i said, he said, hes chris festival, like a ton of people around the world. When the pandemic did, i became cognitively overloaded with having to work full time from home and my son having school from home as well. I had a lot going on just like everybody else, and i needed different ways to kind of get through my daily process. So i sort of doing Different Things that im still doing today. Like going for walks every single morning while i work through different projects in my mind, or im listening to audio books or pod cast. And a lot of this was covered in and is great book the extended mind. Ive also set up kind of like my home office area and collaborative work is also helped me out a lot just thinking a little bit more clearly. And even though weve been in this pandemic for a long, long time is gone a little bit easier. I cause it in our brains how we doing, what have you noticed . Yeah, i think a lot of people can identify with, like christmas thing about feeling overloaded during the pandemic and having to work, you know, from morning till night without a break, without a chat with colleagues or without a commute, you know, and i think that kind of puts the lie to the idea that the more we exercise our brains and where we use it, the stronger, i guess, i think a lot of us actually felt much less intelligent during the pandemic. And i would argue that another reason for that is that we were cut off for many of our usual mental extensive, you know, our colleagues, our classmates, and we werent visiting, i knew and stipulating places we werent maybe using our body so much because we were sitting in front of the screen for many hours a day. So i think that helps explain why a lot of people didnt feel like they were at their best, naturally during those and that yeah, i, this is definitely happening to me. I want to say that part of your book was about natural spaces and getting out of the into nature, which is what the last speaker just talked about. And i talked about that was really fascinating. One of the things that natural space is that is the piece of the wind and the leaves and the sound of Running Water that helps the exhaust us. And one of the reasons why i say that, is it anything that cons are green and that source of norepinephrine that have talked about before norepinephrine is a no test it or that a little bit. There was a long way, a little bit helps you learn really well that too much is what happens when youre stressed out. And when youre stressed out, youre norepinephrine system, its too strong. And what nature does is it helps the stresses, it helps. It helps that source of nerve and ask him to calm down. So we can learn and maximally. I think the, the notion of the extended mind is also really useful. As we think about the pandemic for conceptualizing how it is, we collectively make sense and a brand new event like this, right . This is a challenge that most people have never experienced anything like before, and you cant figure it out on your own. You have to rely on other people. And you know, for example, weve learned over time how to understand grass of disease spread, or the transmission of cobit in your, in your local area or hospital usage rates. All sorts of information that ordinary people, most of the time havent been paying attention to. And now at the beginning it was overwhelming and over time it becomes less. So for a couple of reasons. One is that we actually do learn how to cope with new kinds of information, right . Over time, we get better at it. The other thing is, as part of an extended community on mind, we get better presenting information to others. So policy makers and people that yall are just and people in science, communication, and so on, as well as the news media are now much better at showing people the information in ways that are understandable and that they can use in their lives than they were at the beginning of them and thats a process was suspended. Mind isnt just a tool we we, we have inevitably at our disposal. We have to build it and we can make it better. I was like a multi and boulder. Hes a philosopher, a science that cant university. Im an and im, he really tackles this idea of how we really max out our brains right now. What is possible within our brains . And then of the back of that, i would like some Practical Solutions that or i guess can give us about how we work small to his mouth. The money from office has argued that the human brain will never unravel certain mysteries about the universe. Just because of the way our brains evolved. Just like the mind of a dog movement understands prime numbers, lets say. The human mind is bound to have certain biological limits to mal disposition sounds modest and humble, but the trouble is that its always thinking of human intelligence in terms of a single isolated human brain. Without the health of mind extensions. Ive gotten good structures and collaboration, but this is exactly what makes human intelligence unique. Human intelligence is open ended. Im probably unlimited. But thats, thats what i like to say. But my life proves otherwise. I, i, i want to talk to, to, to you about some professional things that people can do to really expect what the brains are capable of. For instance, im going to play a little video of what quin exercising in japan and tell us why this is important and what we should be doing. And i like to extend our break regarding exercise in the working on the construction site to inspire. Oh, very common wise, is that important . How does i explained that . Right . Yeah. This really lovely. Thats a, a, a program of exercises that millions of people in japan do every morning and has been doing for decades and theres a couple of things going on there. I mean, one thing theyre outside talking about theyre moving and dr. Power told us how important that assist thinking. And 3rd of all, theyre moving together. Theyre engaged in synchronize movement, which helps bring a group of people together and helps get them on the same page. Its like if youre moving as one, if your bodys or moves one and helps your brain kind of as act as one, thats why im going to keep them this cool thing going. Thank you for the exercises for from the japanese construction workers. I would like to gina sing up to the singing. Dana, why are you singing to this is kayla. I am getting in order to set up a favor and to tell people about opens activated funds as possible things i will Research Based create the beat. Okay. No tv oh, by the city will be shaping that looks, drawing memories away. A to then a fission lee. Yeah. Ive seen it to shouldnt go to hell. Tell me why that wasnt just the trip. I kept kind of my seeing my entire research for each episode. Of the stream, and then im going to be back to that hosting as always, that youre doing and so your, your whole audience will be better um, duties are duties because they help people remember better that 44 beat is in the say to stream our frequency and a song just helps us, especially if we thing it together. When im giving lectures, i often have my ideas, sing that song after they hear about. Now when it ends, youll climb, they all say it together and staff their fingers right . Their hands. And this is like so many, so im going to give you a real big picture right here is an office that i know pretty well. How do you make this Office Environments . I mean, make it a back to office environment, says, thinking performing well, because right back here, this is my desk. I working at the grayness, its a very tragic office. Dominic, what we need to do to extend this thinking that whats going on in this office . A 3rd great question. It is a tragic office. Im sorry youre open to it. Um i would say the most important thing in the office is the people. And i would worry less about the space. So the fact there are no people in the office. Well, whether theyre in the office or not. Um, you can, you know, put some paint on the walls, but i think its the relationship between the people and their sense, particular of the common unit as working together toward that sort of Common Mission and set of goals. We know to be crucial for both people be excited about their work, but also be productive and cooperative. And so building a collective and common identity regardless of the space around you would be my primary recommendation. All right, this is being such a fascinating conversation. Weve only scraped the surface. Thats so much more that you can find out. Absolutely not. Gina, gina was the totes, and well see that the end of the show, i have the most of the year the show are doing the the new them out. Is there any 2nd now . Ok, look at my laptops, extended mind name of the pool. You can find more about the book. You can either book go to add a massy pools to, to cite dominic, the power boss. He has a book as well as the fall of gina, just because shes amazing and she may, will seeing you at the same price of watching everybody. Ill see you next time. Take the on the focus on our boots in wont be attending the summit in south africa with an international warrant out for his arrest for suspected war. Fine. Can he travel anywhere . Bowed. Im told stories from across asia and the pacific one. 0 one east. Explain the issues affecting the close the most populous region. The rates for the white house keeps up with donald trump take pump in the republican policies, 1st the rebates, or holds its own private people. Empower investigates. The topic impacts on ukraines fragile items, and thats the temperature of solar and biodiversity plummets the Global Environmental facility. To coordinate finance for international action, assembled in canada focused on l. G 0. How do staples control information controlling the narrative to dominating the media . How does the narrative improve Public Opinion and pending norma . Spite . It might not be the most important story about china of today. But thats what the public attention to how is this has been jim listened. We played in the story, the listening post. I fixed the media, we dont cover the news, we cover the way the news is covered, the or on the bulk window, how the top story is allowed to 0. Russia has attacked a vice was ukrainian export facilities near the border would remain in operations of suspended, a smile posts on the danube river retained and main transit points of grain after russia pulled out of the black sea grain deal. Ukraine says russia has a type 26 pool facilities in the past 9 days. So then clearly was pulling developments from a stumble on the same day. Thats washington pro strikes a major ukrainian ford and all of us are region purchase president george of type as well and, and his washing counterparts flooding recruiting has a phone conversation