A no tailbacks it that he has more from london were hearing that Michel Barnier may brief us it is on the latest developments or monday morning if there is anything to to report on monday evening Boris Johnson again who will speak to the head of the European Commission to see whether any progress has been made because in the words of a british cabinet minister on sunday we are into the last few days of possibility of striking a deal because the contentious points fisheries access to british waters and how soon that should change a level Playing Field what kind of rules britain will have to continue to follow and how any disputes will actually be solved in the future. In his 1st post election rally u. S. President donald trump has again falsely claimed to have won the election in georgia is campaigning for 2 republican senators ahead of runoffs in january that will decide which Party Controls the senate a committee in the u. S. Has found that directed microwave radiation is the likely cause of mysterious illnesses among american diplomats in cuba and china at least 2 dozen diplomats reported dizziness pressure and cognitive problems during a period of nearly 2 years from late 2016 the study didnt say who was responsible or whether it was an actual attack venezuelans are choosing a new congress in an election boycotted by the opposition the u. S. You and most latin american countries are calling it a sham vote they say it will enable president Nicolas Maduro is Ruling Socialist Party to take over the last state body currently controlled by the opposition by durer claims he will step down if his party doesnt win the vote those are the headlines on aljazeera coming up next years inside story. A controversial dutch holiday tradition is under scrutiny once again like heat is a delight for some but its a racist symbol for all those in a gay a black lives not to protest is it time for this divisive figure this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program im wrong cause many children and the netherlands have grown up with the image of black pete is a help a necklace their equivalent of santa claus but black pate is highly controversial thats because the figure is usually a white person wearing black face makeup with exaggerated lips and an afro wig thats edition dates back to the 19th century around the time of the global slave trite but people say the character is racist and has no place in modern day society some cities have replaced black pete with a compromise forget cold chimneypiece his face is covered in soot instead. Hes actually kind of beat me up and they say its no longer appropriate to be completely covered with black makeup so were using suit and this is just because were going to change and youre not this year are you certain need to see what you did you know im working from home depot theyre going to my home and how you want to adapt in order to make it fun for everybody and keep everybody happy. They control the sea intensified earlier this year when black lives matter protests began in the netherlands. And he black pete demonstrators often face supporters of the far right surveys suggest a majority of dutch people want to keep the character but Public Opinion is shifting some libraries recently removed childrens books that feature black pete Prime Minister who wants defended the tradition now says hes changing his attitudes as well. As work to pete the moment i met little children with dark skin who told me they felt incredibly discriminated against because black pete is black thats the last thing you want at a sink Nicholas Party but on the other hand if the government were to decree that black peter is no longer allowed then a lot of people who love the tradition will react the tradition is changing over time in a few years time there will be hardly any black people expect. Lets introduce our guests michel s. A. s an activist at the n. T. Black People Movement in kinshasa tracey by tennessee a political scientist and activist focusing on gender and race and in london Patrick Vernon a cultural historian a woman to you all i want to begin in amsterdam with that michel says michel this character black pete is effectively the helper of st nicholas he arrives some point in the 19th century as a helper to st nicholas into the netherlands at the same time theres a global slave trade happening these are all caricature of what some white people thought a black person might look like but then a grotesque caricature im sure but this is not just about a cute christmas tradition this is almost celebrating slavery isnt it. It is it is. The tradition was invented in 850. Guarantee in our guy from around black history to black our graphs and here you can see. One of the 1st book in which it was introduced and it was introduced 13 years before the abolishment of slavery so that was a time in which people in europe in the netherlands look at black people as inferior beings so on that context this characterised created and thats why we protest against it but its not just about that anymore about the fact that the character was created from one space and time over the years its changed into a christmas tradition many people in the netherlands have grown up with this they dont see anything wrong with it so why is it now causing such controversy yeah absolutely as you said when this book was introduced it became very popular and it became the most popular tradition in the country more popular than christmas. And what youve seen the dutch context is that people believe that its an innocent tradition because a lot of people believe that there is no racist racism in the netherlands its innocent country racism happens in the us in south africa but not in so that makes it difficult to address the on the lying legacy of slavery and colonialism however by criticizing the tradition weve been able to open up with the bad about both the tradition and the underlying issue of institutional racism but the Prime Minister is saying that actually youre moving politicking too fast you want to ban this tradition he says give it a few years the tradition will die naturally. Yeah but hes been hes been saying that for a long time and people have been criticizing this tradition since the 1930 s. On asking the question like how long more should we wait how much longer should we wait i think. When we talk about human rights when we talk about racism we shouldnt phase it out we should completely end it immediately so everybody can you know live in a respectable and way and in the way that you know people are treated equally lets bring in Patrick Vernon head in london patrick when you and i were growing up in the u. K. There was a very famous figure whos actually called the goalie what he was a caricature of a black person that was used for a commercial marketing practices or a brand of gem eventually that figure did go away when you and i became older and we started questioning it and there was a movement to try to get rid of that is it the same in the netherlands or does this is this much more cynical much more openly racist. Its very similar to because i mean you know lets face it one of the impacts alexis of enslavement in terms of trance and its life trade was a teeny human isolation of people of African Heritage whether in netherlands in the u. K. In the caribbean in north america south america. And so theres been a long tradition of of of using. Images of gollywogs using characters like minstrels using white people. Shit policies tend to be black that was very popular also in britain we had a well known t. V. Sit t. V. Show on the b. B. C. Called the black white minstrel show and that was prime time t. V. In the seventys and also your morris dancers in cold war who also locked in a big campaigns about that i still say its a place that basic principle the 1st principle is lives do not matter its easy to ridicule to make characters of black people and if you were to apply that to other communities people wouldnt tolerate thats really recognize and semitism and in europe we recognize that islamophobia but we do not recognize the blackness or afro phobia and i think its important that we do something sounds. Be very tense here in kinshasa i saw you nodding your head there when you came to the idea that we do not recognize the idea of this you know blackness of people that we we actually do character caricature on this much more than say and the seventys a more islamophobia for example that examples that were brought up is that accurate you think. Well i think its accurate especially one people of african descent black people in belgium are in that event trying to talk about black feet and said its racism a lot of people will say well what are these people saying they come here in their countries and they want to change the tradition thats actually pointing out that people dont see us as belgian our native citizens of the net events and so yes of course its an issue we dont recognize the thing. That people that people african descent but ive seen in the boss years there has been some effort especially on iraq and a level to recognize these things by writing some resolution and other political statements so i think we are still not there where people recognize the being a life struggle and the structural reasons that people and people of african descent in all you are face but step by step were moving to the right direction lets assess in amsterdam where you are right now when you talk to people about black paint and you say to them look i think i dont know where you are on race and i know you that well but let me just explain to you that the caricatural is racist to me you get a welcome reception. Do people listen i have to say after saying the city of mc numbers been some progressive change but then as you know. That has been developed through struggle over the past 5 to 10 years theres been a lot of activism and there was a lot of rhesus that but in terms of them id say theres a level of respect and under saying however outside of the big cities like him said rather nam a few weeks ago for example in the south of the netherlands there was a small protest and Peaceful Protesters against racism are ambushed by a few 100 all against an extreme right people so you see this gap between the city and the rest of the country so theres still a lot of work to do to be done but the work to be done needs to take into account tradition. Michel anything to take into account that there is this tradition that has been going on since the 19th century and actually you know or maybe you are just spoiling christmas and all spoiling a festivity by this is what i mean the thing about traditions is that all traditions change culture trenches i mean it was a tradition that women were not allowed to fold it was also traditions and slave people. Their antisemitic traditions which have been abolished shown i think people should move forward and acknowledge that everything changes throughout time and tracy bebo tense here is this the right fight to pick when you have shocked or all systemic racism where you have violence where you have people who are denied housing because of the color of their skin who are denied jobs because of the color of their skin is a christmas character a festive character really the fight we should be picking. First of all i think that black people can choose which fight they can pick no one has to tell us are the black people which i think and speak 2nd of all people need to understand that living in a white in countries like belgium are not and theyll never know and face the racism is a traumatic experience so yes its a right to fight a bit because still a lot of kids have to be called black beats and when you know that everything that is black that are blackness often east associated with negative stereotypes black beauty is one of them so its a fight in a bigger fight in a fight against Structural Racism in a fight against oppression systematic oppression of black people but its an important fight black people should feel free to celebrate the parties at the want and also that dont children especially children because at the end of the day its a Childrens Party if we change that beats the children will not hear its most of the time the adults because the problem 3 but children will be all children will be very happy if the stereotypes surrounded that be changed and its a more credibly character for everyone given in london do you think this is the right side to pick. Agree with. The previous speaker you know people are fighting Different Levels some people are fighting on key issues round a stop and search and deaths in custody and some people fighting around betterments Health Care Provision some people are fighting around housing some people fart around immigration and migration policy the interesting thing about the whole store front caricature its a National Narrative so when people talk about tradition and steeped in the story corps Structural Racism is part of the tradition so you might challenge stop and search but the Police Believe thats. Petes is acceptable therefore they will they will treat with disrespect you from there rest them or when you are dealing with state officials they still look at you or the people there for i dont respect you its very clear in terms United Nations the corrections and chances are lost that the years the people of african descent have been traumatized through the history of slavery on modern day racism and part of the process is the colonizing traditions which reinforce our stereotypes so its black petes or minstrels or any. Negative connotation has to be acceptable this has not be tolerated and the and we need to get with this if you want server in just a just an Inclusive Society missler say is one of the things thats really changed over the last year or so is the black Live Matters Movement and it has introduced a consciousness good not just in europe globally as well has it had an impact on youll need and on your own people understanding. Yes absolutely as i said before in decks of the past 10 years. Movement against what the. It was and the far from of the more and it grew from there and people to about a 1000 last year however this summer more than 50000 people showed up on the street saw that quite a large impact. Weve been up in fight the by the Prime Minister by the mayors of ems of them right there and several institutions to think about policy proposals to combat racism and to add to the other speakers i dont think you have to choose between one argue either in the dutch context hunting course for belgium as well. Fight against black beads opens up space for broader debate about other issues and examples of racism such as racial profiling labor market discrimination. Discrimination in education etc etc so it all. And stu the Broader Movement of progressive change the subject line and in london i just wanted to talk to you about how you change things legislatively through law through law making in the u. K. We have the Race Relations act its not perfect but a lot of people have suggested that it has changed things for the better for colored communities in the u. K. Do you think thats true do you think it is law making or is it culture that needs to change well when you support kl communities often its quite offensive when really is the top book and who is saying. Say that and britain has been nearly 50 years of campaigning for race quotes lets close in the 1st piece out was in 1965 which was to stop discrimination people discriminates in and get an accommodation and then the men did stop discrimination people didnt image 11 markets and then it was a focus on Structural Racism in terms of Government Departments and local farted in other agencies and private businesses discriminates and so over the long history and tradition in the u. K. But those on it those changes how i want to come about through lobbying and campaign see need to lobby and the activists work with lawmakers and the politicians and concerned individuals as well i think weve lost matter just a touch not very briefly its a massive impact in britain so much so that a number of museums and institutions have now removed statues celebrating who people who have benefited from the slave trade and this loan led to a National Debate in britain what is britain and what history of the history of history should we condone all to be examined at least so i think its been an interesting but health the conversation that we have been we should have a should have a very long time ago to. Quantised much less ascendant evelyns some schools of voluntarily removing images of black paint some Television News organization Television Entertainment shows have already stopped using them but theres no legislative constitutional law making going on to try and stop this from happening is that part of your strategy is all to get laws changed. Yes absolutely since the beginning has been one of our goals and missions to. Lobby powers politicians more locally and actually to the philip legislation to. You know get rid of all kinds of racial stereotypes especially some of the big beat of course however unfortunately politicians have been youre not taking responsibility the Prime Minister for example has repeatedly said that its not his responsibility to should be the responsibility of society and yeah thats a very disappointing decision but the positive thing indeed is that we do see a lot of change happening in schools in cultural institutions and companies so. We do see some progression but on the political level unfortunately. Those who have the authority have not taken their responsibility tracey im just going to come here in a 2nd but i do want to pick up on something michel just said in effect then what is more important to you what is more important here is it. Cultural change then or is it legal change. Well i think both are very important and i think with all that that is Matter Movement we have to understand that fighting racism is not a trend we leave for people who live in western society they face reeses every day thats the 1st thing the 2nd thing i think the change of mentality is the most important thing so we can have lost we can change laos we can make resolutions but if people dont change dont act differently against people of color against that people will still have reason therefore it is still important to go in dialogues talk with people and hear like teach them about about history teach them about racism and teach them about the impact of racism on black people because a lot of people dont understand that facing racism is a traumatic experience im seeing that scene for instance much less a last one of the bigger problems youve got when it comes to changing laws we need to just want to tell you when youre talking about politicians is actually in europe there is this rise of the far right there are politicians who may not be far right but i certainly listening to their constituencies and suggesting that actually if we do something about black paint we are going to anger a number of our constituents who dont see this as being rice and so you have a political problem here as well then absolutely absolutely and im going to is the main reason why politicians have not taken responsibility again i have to refer to the Prime Minister of the quote unquote liberal party. He has acknowledged especially after his manner of rising of the summer that indeed elected me such a change however because he knows that a large part of his Political Base is quite conservative he is afraid to take the steps to actually you know be full of legislation to abolish it so you know that thats a big generous. Part of that and london. Is that anyway this becoming a much more International Movement of people in the u. K. And america. Interested in this idea of black pete as a cultural stereotype the needs to go or is very much focused on the netherlands you think its not radio global issues. Its a global issue because you are we have our criminal black petes so pete steeped obviously in the history of netherlands but in britain we have our similar petes in terms of racial stereotype and negativity there are some lets america as well but its the same issue the same issue is a process of dehumanised that was seen as objects or the other were not were not respected and valued as human beings and therefore it becomes fair game to belittle us and to define it and to hide behind impose commas traditions to justify our racist. Propaganda as well and actually if we want to change peoples hearts and minds it does require have the star look in a conversation and its very sad to hear that and the loons. Politicians dont want to address this issue because theyre worried about the voter base and people who stay in power but if we can educate a new generation of people from holland an impact belgium that. Pete is racist piece is actually. Dehumanizes the black experience and up to more importantly it just defies even to certain extent your White Privilege i think that would need to happen next generation was sometimes to come painting as well we have the same issues in britain. And even though weve got probably the best lets listen in europe as we leave you are possibly in the few days or and the year. Or the best expression around fighting discrimination there is still a massive level of discrimination and theres still stereotypes of people patrick at heart im sorry for your show there but i do want to bring in our running out of time tracy by chance here one of the questions i always wonder about is does has black heat had an impact in kinshasa in regards of people you speak to is that i think theyre aware of is it something that they know that. Well if you know there are so many issues the end of black beads not the least of their issues but when you end up with congolese people about that they dont understand and of course the also see this reeses im. Even old colonial that white belgian that meeting go for a while and then go back to belgium and see black beating thats weird and wrong so yes its not the main issue but talking about colonization of the colonization is not only a western subject its also an african subject and indeed the company excepted i want to thank all our guests mention the sas Tracy Biba Tansey and Patrick Vernon and i want to thank you too as well for watching now you can see the program again any time by this thing our web site out is there a dot com and for the discussion go to our Facebook Page at facebook dot com d forward slash a. J. Inside story and you can also join the conversation on twitter we are at a. J. Inside story from me among conan the whole team here into. As a 2nd wave of covert 19 brings a surge in infections a few months ago there were dozens of cases a day now if we chose 2000 and countries in force new measures to curb contagion this is the 1st step for the government of meth testing the entire population scientists are on the brink of releasing new vaccines to reduce the spread of the virus will it be enough to bring the Global Health crisis to an end the coronavirus harmed them a special coverage on a. In South Central chile indigenous communities are fighting to reclaim their Ancestral Lands and the conflict is becoming increasingly violent talk to alter sierra travels to the region to see why the mcclatchy people are rising up and asks is there a path to peaceful coexistence on aljazeera. Kept as memory and present realities. Genya the camera as a tool photography and often shot. In one of when i saw his most deprived areas children who have nothing. Now have a voice. Danny as close a part of the viewfinder latin america series on out as they are. We understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the world. So no matter where you call. Out is iraq bringing you the news and Current Affairs that matter to. Aljazeera. Org. But on the clock in doha the top stories here on aljazeera and last ditch breaks it talks a getting underway between u. K. And e. U. Leaders britains chief negotiator david frost has arrived in brussels for more negotiations both sides are still its less than a month before the deadline to reach a deal meanwhile media reports suggest that british cabinet ministers will support the Prime Minister Boris Johnson on a no deal break said that in baba has more from london were hearing that Michel Barnier may brief passages on the latest developments on monday morning if there is anything to to report on monday evening Boris Johnson
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