Transcripts For ALJAZ Studio B Unscripted 20240711

Itll, it means they are defeated and mckillop is conceded. The ultimate prize. If European National defense forces, who are now said to be roughly about 100 kilometers from the capital, they are saying they will launch attacks from the killer from at least 4 different fronts. But what is going to be a huge opportunity to the t. P. Alone is that the city is some owned by hills and mountains where they have mounted their defenses and a hopeful that will stop the advancing opponents. Of course, both sides have billy and it might not be izzy. According to the cue to unlist, a technicality has been for the European Defense was a stick of a pounds like a month ago, which they have just clearly talk of taken control of. And the protracted conflict, many fear would not just affect if you appear but the entire horn of africa. Region, ugandan opposition, politician bobby wine has been released on bail after being charged over actions likely to spread. Coronavirus. Officials have accused the president ial candidate of violating covert 1000. 00 restrictions, while campaigning for the president ial election for january. Police say 28 people have died in the protests sparked by his arrest on wednesday, after Security Forces launched a crackdown wine has been arrested multiple times since announcing his political ambitions. U. S. Republican Party Leaders from the state of michigan were greeted by protesters as they arrived in washington for talks with president donald trump. His lawyers say state legislature should ignore results and swing states like michigan and give their Electoral College votes to trump. Trump alleges widespread voting irregularities in the election, which was won by his rival joe biden, but trump has lost several legal challenges. Well, one of joe bidens leading lawyers, bob bauer says the campaign has now lost 28 lawsuits in the past 17 days leading to their latest change in tactics. But he also says they have no chance of overturning the result in michigan. No state legislature in our countrys history ever has done with donald trump is apparently agitating for the Michigan State legislature to do which is to ignore the results of the popular vote election and wrest control from the voters or attempt to wrest control from the voters. And appoint their own slate of electors to send to washington. Now, the reason is never happened before, is that it cannot be done. And the constitution does not permit a state legislature to do would donald trump wants the disk of state legislature to do . Corona virus related deaths in mexico have passed 100000. Its the 4th country to pass that mark only the united states, brazil and india have had more deaths. The number of daily infections has begun to rise in recent weeks, but authorities in mexico believe the number of deaths is falling. The total number of infections in mexico past 1000000 just days ago. And the as ery army says its entered a district thats been under armenian control for nearly 30 years. Its one of 3 areas or media has to hand back as part of a cease fire deal to end that 6 weeks of fighting over the disputed region of nagornokarabakh. Russia helped broker the truce and has peacekeeping forces on hand to oversee the transfer studio be on script that is coming up next. Looking at the global rise in authoritarianism. More news of half an hour ahead. If you obey them all for 30 years, you begin to worship it. And believe it was probably a lot of the purpose of the tyrant tried to make anything else unimaginable the 1st dictatorship of the dictatorship. In your mind, there are all those super heroes. The only super heroes going to save us is all shells. And thats what that 99. 00 means. Its all just the knowledge of such luck and cool mission and not to be fascist. And a radical human crabapple, a writer journalist, and artist guantanamo is a place that runs on secrecy and on censorship. But its not just i had an advantage, i could drive around the censorship. As a journalist, i spent much of my time covering protests all over the world. The people in the streets today, the same people whod been on the streets protesting against austerity 6 to say look, i document people fighting oppression, often against impossible odds. I drew this right next to the right cops. I explore how all Global Economic system paved the way to a new author. With art and with words, i document the ways that people are fighting with technology provide the solutions to all the tools we use to communicate and organize, become our undoing. All the always sleep Global Social dystopia was paul mean you share something. Were both people that are, were deeply changed by 2011, a year of mass uprisings that spread from wisconsin to egypt to new york to greece, to syria. I got my start as a journalist, going down to Zuccotti Park where the occupy wall street protest encampment was and trying to draw the people there. You covered pretty much everything. So what about tell me what 2011 meant, paul . Well, i think it was the rebirth of the anticapitalist imagination and id seen the imagination die. I was born in 1960. So my dads generation coal miners, cotton spinners, very heavily trade unionized. There was much to and for me, the kind of death of imagination was about the soviet union collapsed. The never, i never cared of the soviet union old. Most people i knew who call themselves left wing. We cared about all ability to what sociologists call to have agency. We saw the ability of groups of people to change the world and then we saw that smashed. And then im covering the student protests here in london. And suddenly we sort of a new kind of person emerge where you realize youre witnessing a historic rebirth of something of a media its, its the imagination the abilities to say in your mind, this kind of capitalism isnt working. A carbon based economy isnt working dictatorship after dictatorship, suddenly looks illegitimate and weak and stupid and elderly. So we can change things. Thats what i think it was. I mean, we both know because we covered it, you know, and were right in the middle of it. The things went wrong with it, but to me its a bigger moment than a 989 for the berlin wall is a bigger moment than 68. Its the turn of history back towards the possibility that everything you see. Oh, so this window, this financially corrupt hierarchical world could one day be changed. Thanks in a way that favors people, beings was not some try to create a sort of utopia and microcosm yet every single one of those squares, whether it was tough or your square in egypt, or whether it was you couldnt park was a place where they were trying out a new society, there was always a free kitchen and most importantly there was always a library, right . These are places where even in really sexist societies, women, you know, they stood as predators, right. And these places, they didnt just fizzle out. Thats always the narrative. Now they were violently smashed. They were murdered in some cases or in other cases like in my city, they were just beaten and you know, shoveled away with dump trucks. But the truth is that except in a few places like tunisia, the protests of 2011 that they did fail. And i want to ask why, why did they fail and did they fail . And i wrong maybe a challenge, but i dont. I think its quite hard to succeed when your own armed and there are militarized Police Forces whose job it is to, to smush your head. I think they didnt, they didnt fail in this sense. With what i noticed is that there was the network, the Information Network created, a resilience social cycle is no talk as if for the 1st time in maternity i. E. , 400 years. Were back to a point where all minds can be hyper social with each other without having to stand in a Public Square and hold a meeting. So i think thats what wasnt defeated. There was a sudden realisation that lost people. My generation for, you know, these guys wandering around with the ear buds, you know, the why ear buds are individualized and theyre in a bubble and they dont care about anything else. But what we didnt realize is that that bubble was full of networked connections. And thats what i think the most profound impact of it was. I mean, most of us been profound for you because youre wrong. It most clearly changed under the impact of having this iconic protest take place almost outside your door. It changed everything for me, occupy wall street felt like love, occupy wall street was the space where i found my political voice, where i realized that i could be smart, where i realized i could speak before occupy. I was an artist, a pretty well known artist in my world, but one who spent all of her time drawing in nightclubs, drawing the sort of rich Hedge Fund People who had destroyed the world and then drawn my glittering friends who danced for them and entertained them and i became a writer because of occupy i was arrested the 1st anniversary of i remember, i remember meeting me. You sent me a message of the pictures that you do, people and see that youve got your hands behind your back and looking pretty defiant. I was pretty defiant, i had a Police Officer grabbed me by the arm, pull me into the street and arrest me for blocking traffic. And my 1st piece of writing that ever really meant anything was an article about my arrest. And i wasnt angry because i had such a bad arrest. I didnt know what hit me. You know, its certainly was a far easier arrest than you know, black and brown. People in america face every day for doing nothing. But i was just so angry at the lightness with which arrest was taken, such as violence was taken america and i wanted to write about it. And i didnt want to just sort of him to round things the way art can do, right. I wanted to say clearly what was wrong, and so thats, thats how i became a writer. On top of the writing, you worked on a collaborative book about what was going grease, the altars self change, didnt it . But what i remember you did this big iconic series of paintings called shell game, where you basically reminded me of hieronymous bush only with only with and a couple of casts. And theres lots and lots of figures in everyone. All that it all based around a big figure which it symbolizes something. And then a clone of a crowd of protesters. And suddenly the crowd is in, is almost like at the center of what youre drawing, an and then, and the drawings. They pick up the people real people, pick up your drawings and hold them up from demonstration. I mean that this was cooler than any galleries ive ever had. I had artwork that i would be sketching things from occupied during the day. And then a few hours later, theyre be out on the streets being used as protesters just they just printed them in and exactly iraq and iran are, you know, run them off and were holding them. And you know, theres always this artificial dichotomy right, between art, which is supposed to be terribly bad and, you know, politics, right . But i think both you and me are people that we have joined those 2 things. Well, i mean the, the me is that as a news journalist at the time, i mean, remember, ive been covering economics, i mean, and covering economics and business is, you know, without wanting to criticize anybody who does it is boring. I mean, literally, you know, i mean, the structure of the world, it is, you go to join interrogated, but you know, one Quarterly Results after another. And, and, and then im standing on on 5th avenue in new york, outside Lehman Brothers at 9 am. And there are people carrying their goods in, in a paper box because the banks gone bust and then the state, the american state steps in and saves capitalism. After 20 years. I remember i had to take this stuff, you know, lying down for 20 years. But the state has no role in the system and it was obvious to anyone that this form of capitalism was doing the way it changed. My journalism is on block to me. All my colleagues on newsnight used to say, we should say why we so stupid. Why we saw on free in the way we speak, and we kind of whisper to each other. Its because we said, because every one of those fears that were going to say, bush is a war, criminal, live on air monitoring ourselves. We have more of a monitoring youre so makes you kind of clench insular syria and suddenly 2008 made me realize this form of capitalism is doomed. One of the things that strikes me is how much of our present moment comes out of that year. That year of 2011, there is a new series of horizontal network. Protests protests led by young people, led by queer people, led by women in puerto rico where my father is from one 3rd of the island, was out in the streets, protesting against the corrupt governor ricky rajjo. And they drove him out of power. The 1st time. This ever happened in puerto rican history one 3rd of people rights. There are protests in iraq that are being met with extraordinary violence by the state. But still young men and especially young women, are out in squares, you know, asserting their dignity, asserting their right to live in a country that isnt equipped talk. Recy. And people impose often assume that what is driving these things are either pure economics or you follow the no get over. It was what it was made, this repetitive pattern over and over again. How consistent your level of me to the example of the, of lebanon, or the iraqi protest. It is people who are literally prepared just on the streets and be shocked because they cant see a future. But what is it that you think they want . Dignity, i think people want to get a people of course want decent jobs and they want to be fed. They want to power grid that works right. But above all, theres the sense of humiliation in puerto rico, people carried signs and they chanted about dignity. But the record had a hurricane 2 years ago called maria and 4000 people died in the aftermath. And they didnt just die from like, you know, the storm or drowning. That is, that they died from neglect, from the neglect that was done by the American Government to support the rico as a colony and from a neglected by the corrupt local elite. And the spark that kicked off those protests was that the point that he can center for investigative journalism, published chats where ricky rowe say, oh, the governor, joe and his friends were joking about feeding the bodies of elderly people who died in the hurricane. Vultures. And so you went and drew that normally drew you to pause in the reconstruction because because again, its like flu is like bone, dry fluidity, isnt it . Exactly . Should lead a journalist is an artist. Suddenly an artist is the trying to really, you know, rewire, the grid was a feeling. I mean, when i went back, i hadnt been back since i was a little kid. Right. And i hadnt been back since my grandparents died and i had not been as connected with that part of myself. And then when i saw not just that the hurricane, it happened. But like my friends, you know, in the mountains that they didnt have any like Running Water or power. They had to wait on line 20 hours for gas. I took the 1st flight, i could afford down the plane was entirely filled with other, with the deacons. And we are all carrying duffel bags filled with water filters and batteries and anything you can take us even if youre going to report like what sort of jerk shows have at their friends house for their friend. Doesnt have any fresh food and where they have to get the water out of the side of the mountain and they dont bring anything to help. Right. And for me, the thing that struck me the most was that what save, put the recall in this is what i think will save all of us in times of collapse and Climate Change. It was the solidarity of people. It was not the state, it was not the n. G. O. S, it was not like rich people with a lot of money. It was people went to their elderly neighbors and they checked in on them, and they set up mutual aid kitchens. They cleared roads with machetes, if they had to, they set up clinics. People went from, you know, town to town in puerto rico, to bring water. They set up a Massive Network of Solidarity Centers and was from the Solidarity Centers that the protests that overthrew the governor came, that it was from that not just the centers themselves, but also that, that was right. And we can do this. We have been abandoned, but we can do this. We have dignity, we have asserted our dignity by clear in our roads and feeding each other. So this play that i wrote called why its kicking off everywhere, which is based on the book. I tried to do a sort of instant history of the way elites work, what to do about this explosion of hope and freedom. And they tried 1st of all censoring the internet. The next thing they tried was switching off the internet is what they wanted to. The next thing is that they do the kind of propaganda that doesnt work, but in the end, i think they came up with an ingenious solution which should be, we should have expected because this information theory was a warm watch. It is an Information Network most effectively is noise. Exactly. And what they did is they said stop trying to just censor the stove. Just fill the entire inforce fear full of rubbish. And what do we do about that . Mean you in or of different ways of trying to tell something that some people call truth. What do you do about it . Something very hard. Right . And my last book was about syria that i did that amazing syrian journalist, not one he and anyone who has reported on syria knows that there is an intense just information campaign. Were crimes by the assad regime have been proven over and over and over again. And yet on social media, on the internet, theres just this attempt to flood that space with doubt and to smear journalists and 1st responders. Right. And its very dispiriting at 1st right to us, you know, people who are trying to report and i think for people who are trying to learn the truth, a lot of them just, they shrug their shoulders and theyre like, everyone lies. Its all nonsense and they sort of tune out, however ice, think that sometimes one of the functions of art right art is to distill and what we need now is focus as well. And with that, i want to open up to questions. You have been talking about agency and the role technology. So i would like to ask, what is your take on the role of technology for agency and selfdetermination of oppressed groups. Its a very mixed thing. For example, American Police have existed, they have murdered black people. This is something fundamental to america, and black people have reported on it and that black media has reported on it and White America has not believed them. Right. And then suddenly there were cell phone cameras and suddenly there was social media. And suddenly it became absolutely impossible to ignore the way that American Police murder black people. I do not think that an uprising like ferguson could have spread the way it did without social media. And i also dont think the movement for black lives could have spread without the constant documentation of, of these murders. Right. On the other hand, the news of the ferguson protests spread outside of ferguson because of twitter and not because of facebook. And theres a very big reason for that, which is that at that time, twitter did not use algorithmic filtering and facebook did. And the facebook algorithm, privileged happy stories, and congratulations, it didnt privilege uprisings against murder by the state. Now twitter is also his an algorithmic filtering system and the same tools that we used to communicate with each other that we used to organize and that we used to share truth can equally be used to turn us into like a bunch of non pub loves dogs and this lee swiping for validation through our little glass boxes. And i think its useful to realize that its not if you are addicted to social media, if you find yourself in this, its not that youre weak. Its not that you are you stupid . Its that the is, are deliberately designed to addict people. So i would say i want to answer in a different way. One of the only advantages of being 60 years old, which i turned last month, is that i remember a time when a how engages he was normal. So i was surrounded by people him in my childhood, an young adult hood who believed that what they did had an effect on the world. And theres a, theres a strong reason for that because they defeated fascism in world war 2. And they built a welfare state in this country by, by wanting it when other people did. What i think happened in what we call the neoliberal era of the free market era, is that we started to treat the market as if it was a machine that controlled our lives. And what does it include . A lot of young people. They dont believe that anything they do could actually change the outcome of their life. It becomes like going to a casino, maybe im lucky and i win the x. Factor or love allah or become a premiership football player. But if not, then its just dont to look i find, i dont mean we shouldnt to do with technology is to do with our subordinates into the market. For me, one of the great things about what is happening and what Information Technology in that works. Does is that when you find, when you decide, i actually know i do have agency or people who went to the streets of turkey in 2030 and said, no, we can actually resist all the kind of reactionary stuff that is around us. Suddenly, the 1st weapon that you have is in, from, is, is Information Technology. Thats why i think Going Forward the, the social media and the networks is based on all a huge battle ground. And everybody on that battle needs to come clean about which side theyre on, i think. And all the owners of these big platforms need to decide whether theyre going to sit there and defend hierarchy, or whether theyre going to defend and facilitate the agency of ordinary people. Its, its, its that you could almost say that is the question of the next 25 years. Or if you know you from chile doujin been a shit, he burned books and paint over all the mirror and, and is now it needed. Government is highly likely we draw in some inconvenient books from the kid weekly. So my question is, why its art and all in all its expression. So fear by dictators and their political air. I would maybe start by quoting on the who died or his line about the fear of conquerors from memory. The purpose of a tyrant, right is to make anything else unimaginable. The 1st dictatorship is the dictatorship in your mind, that makes a different sort of rule, something unthinkable. And what art does is it breaks you out of that mental prison art lets you think that there is another way that people could live, that they could be that they could interact another sort of country that they could be in. And it doesnt have to be political art to do that. It doesnt have to be propagandistic. It doesnt have to be set written by the same type of people or set in the same type of country. But just by virtue of being good at art, it makes you imagine other possibilities and that, that imagining of other possibilities. That is what tyrants and conquers fear. I think i would add to that the so i was in greece, reporting. Its a quite depressed time of you know, of a time when people didnt have much hope between the rising in the 2015 when the left came to power and youd be in a bar. And yeah, i would be angry and they want to do graffiti on t. , fascist graffiti. And. And some guy was murdered by the fascists. You want to go and want to protest. And then some women came in dressed in like like the best, the most polite way. I can put it as victorian sex workers, sex workers from the 1900 centuries. They were similar tenuously, beautiful, but slightly kind of, you know, slightly like destroyed and, and they started singing songs from the 2nd world war that were resistance songs. But what they were charla do, while there are did, is it brought this multilayered in us so that, so that some young person realizes whats going on in my life is historic. It has an outcome. Its, it can create beauty even to the hole in the most horrible depths of despair and poverty, and hunger and repression. I think that is what this does. Thats what makes me want to engage both with the artists who do this kind of thing. And also to constantly bring to journalism and writing that quality that all will have the hemingway odd the martha girl or we, you know, we call reports are literary nonfiction. There is a literary ness toward the great writers of the thirtys who cover the rise of anti fascism did. And i think all those of us who want to be good journalists can do is try to emulate that desire to, to put it a sheen of hope and possibility on to what we write. The only thing that its the politics of hate is the politics of solidarity. Im worried that the crisis of the self has a lot more energy to play on all of these, these divisions of the working class. All of these equations wanting to, they keep us from realizing our for 23 years mohsin has collected objects he finds along the coast. Enough to fill his museum enough to break a Guinness World record. With a story for every object has become an environmental activist, uninspired artist, and a voice for the plight of countless migrants might using such an aljazeera. Some have been jammed sound that simply disappeared. Others have been found dead. One, i want to investigate the plight of thailands distance on which is the hard work to aljazeera english since its launch, as a principal presenter and as a correspondent with any breaking news story, we want to hear from those people who would normally not get the voices heard on the International News channel. One moment ill be very proud of all was when we covered the poll of quake of 2050, a terrible natural disaster. And the story that needed to be told from the heart of the affected area to be then to tell the people story was very important at the time. Hello, im Barbara Starr in london. These are the top stories on aljazeera. There are warnings, the escalating conflict in t. Gray will lead to a humanitarian crisis that will devastate ethiopia, and the sudan. The United Nations warns more than 2000000 children are at risk. 30000 people have already fled into so than and the aid agencies are planning for as many as 200000. Government forces, meanwhile, say theyve taken to major towns in tikrit. Ugandan opposition, politician by the wind has been released on bail after being charged over actions likely to spread. Coronavirus. Officials accuse the president ial candidate of violating covert 1000. 00 restrictions. At least 28. 00 people are now known to have died in the protests sparked by his arrest on wednesday. U. S. Republican Party Leaders from the state of michigan were greeted by protesters as they arrived in washington for talks with president donald trump. His lawyers say state legislatures should ignore results in swing states like michigan and gave their Electoral College votes to trump. State legislature in our countrys history ever has done with donald trump is apparently agitating for the Michigan State legislature to do which is to ignore the results of a popular vote election and wrest control from the voters or attempt to wrest control from the voters and appoint their own slate of electors to send to washington. Now, the reason is never happened before, is that it cannot be done. And the constitution does not permit a state legislature to do would donald trump wants the disk of state legislature to do coronavirus related deaths in mexico have passed the 100000. Its the 4th country to pass that mark only the united states, brazil and india have had more deaths. The number of daily infections has begun to rise in recent weeks, but authorities in mexico believe the number of deaths is falling. And the as ery army says its entered ag a district thats been under armenian control for nearly 30 years. Its one of 3 areas that are many as have to hand back as part of a cease fire deal to end the 6 weeks of fighting over the disputed region of novel about well, so youd be unscripted continues the next. Im going to have the aljazeera news hour for you in just under half an hour. Hope youll join me that, but i thank you for more, youve been on the road in support of Bernie Sanders president ial primary campaign. Obama. How the whole hope change thing didnt burley. Its more nitty gritty. Its more sort of its more life and death isnt. It wont burn. It doesnt. He doesnt say i hope he says work. And then on the road with bernie, ive been speaking at some of the rallies and ive been documenting it by drawing the campaign. Ive also just been volunteering a lot. I was in nature housing, which is a government subsidized housing for low income people in new york, knocking on doors. And let me tell you every single person, if we knocked on their doors, there was one of 2 responses. One is politics is garbage. I dont vote because i might as well throw my vote into the trash. This is stupid. And the other one was im voting for Bernie Sanders. Bernie sanders is someone who comes out of Movement Politics and at every single rally. He says, no president , however good is actually going to be able to do this on their own. They cant do it on their own, what i need to get things done and also to keep me honest, right is to have movements people out in the streets, putting pressure on the government to get things done. People arent voting for him as a sort of abnegation of responsibility. Theyre voting for him because he has an incredible record of consistency. And you pretty much know that he is who he says he is, and hes going to try to do the things that he says hes going to do. And theyre going to keep fighting for him to do that when one of the images in 2011 that that sticks with me is the passive voice. Germ of the they show him, they show him the figure, 99 percent to the headquarters of the rise. The rise, a building, and the guy who did it in the illuminator, you know, the illuminator the go, did that give me this big thing about its he had a really kind of cool american action. Keep saying its, its like its like bruce wayne, man, you say its like batman only there is no, but he said to me, theyre almost superheroes. The only superhero is going to save us is all selves. And thats what that 99. 00 means. Its the 99 percent. No, that then became politics, didnt it became corbin here. It became series or in greece which failed. Corben failed. What do we do to stop as it were this new, horizontal network activist left politics. Just becoming the kind of last gasp of something. What we do to make it go somewhere. I think that horizontal Network Politics based on occupation. Its like love, thats what i said, right . Its like love and you dont make a marriage out of just the 1st gasps of passion. Right . Its Something Else too. You need a lot of idle washing up as well. You have to do it, you have to do the washing up as well. Its you need, you need the love, right . Need that passion needed to get started, but you also need structure and you need leaders and you need organizations. And especially these when the adversaries that are in our raid against you are so well funded and are so organized and are so internationalist like there is a fascist internationalism. I think we are a moment where its impossible to see beyond it. Going either you said fascism and people sometimes go away or fascism. I think fascism is around a guy killed in february, Kurdish People in germany because he was a fascist. The Something Like 200000 people in brazil self identify as hitler supporters. We have to, i mean the stakes are bernie, and the man you confronted in it in was a dubai. Yes, i asked about donald trump, hes not a fascist but, but he is, as you say, enabling an International Alliance of people who want to be violent organized, racists, in the forbes and misogynists. So a simple word in doesnt always know point how many discussion like this of us, we actually do confront the question, what are we supposed to do about this . The only thing that its the politics of hate is the politics of solidarity. The more the people can be sliced up into groups like them, citizen, you know, citizen, illegal alien. All of these, these divisions of the working class, all of these divisions of working people, they keep us from realizing our collective power and there is a greater enemy thats pitted against all of us. And the only way that we can overcome these divisions is a thier solidarity that acknowledges the different oppressions that we face. But that makes us fight for each other. I mean, to me, in my book of call it the crisis of the neo liberal self. You could say, in laymans terms, the crisis of the kind of pretty people we became in 30 years of worship in the market. It is quite an easy spillover from, if you believe the market benign lee controls your life and its impossible to 2nd guess it. And you cant go against it. Everything the government does has to be approved by the market. No, to me, its a no brainer. That if you a bay the market for 30 years, and you begin to worship it and believe it has power over your life, then it fails. You know, the machine blows up in 2008. Its a logical thing. People say, what else is there who i can obey . For me, thats that, thats the deep thing. So for me, solidarity can go 2 ways i spent, you know, a lot of the end of last year 21000 campaigning for labor party or in the u. K. General election. And im in a lot of other people for, well, if we mention the fact that theres a long queues at the emergency room in british or spittles then, and the government is responsible. And thats one of our issues. And we go to doorsteps. An almost like 5050, people say, yeah, its terrible. The conservatives cut the health service. All the people say, yeah, its terrible. Those long queues in the emergency room because of the people who were there, the brown people, the issue of being people. And also the english people who are not deserving to be that who have gone because theyve got the, theres a myth that poor people go to hospital because because theyre soft, you know, because they cant take pain. So im worried, im worried the, that this crisis of the self has a lot more energy to play out. I want to segue a little bit to talking about refugees. Were living at a time where an unpleasant amount of people are being forced to leave their homes 1st by war, but also by Climate Change, right . People literally will have to leave their homes to avoid dying. And country is that our countries that are, you know, safer or that are unscathed by Climate Change will have a choice, right . And that choice will either be to allow Free Movement into their countries or to set a concentration camps and in europe and in america. The answer has been to set up concentration camps in america, their concentration camps of renaults that are holding children, children who are refugees from central america. Right . And once a society sets of concentration camps and whether or not you argue that society is fascist, when it sets them up, it is going to become fascist. You cannot set up concentration camps. You cannot kill people at borders without it rotting your soul. I went to morocco before this, the height of the refugee crisis, but when it was, when one of the main routes was, were all co to the mediterranean and interviewed subsaharan african migrants who lived in absolutely worst conditions ive ever seen anybody live in because it was a combination of violence by the arab population against them, and an extremely poor, the poorest in a poor country was poor that way. And i remember cinema in a patch of ground with some, some bricklayers from new jersey. And they said, why do you come, you know, i mean, come to new jersey and find out, you know, we were places where the going to be one of the most disruptive places by Climate Change. The very fragile ecology we in the developed will have to get used to the fact that they are coming and not and that they are human beings. Everywhere we go, we find the university of human existence be under threat. Thats what for me, you know what my work is taking direction of a cold radical human ism, but basically the idea that we have to defend the university of humanist, i think some of the most fundamental things that weve taken for granted. No, im just a mylar in my parents lives life after the war are no under threat. I mean you greet us, the stakes. We were kind of facing. Absolutely. I mean, where living at a time where someone with a good passport like me or you can travel freely across the earth, you know, guzzling carbon as we do. And someone with a bad passport is in turn on the island and lesbos and forced says sleep in a tent in the mud in the snow to the point where like kids freeze to death, right. I mean, thats like a fundamental statement that the global water has made that people with rich passports are human, and people who have bad passports and dont have money to, you know, buy extenuating circumstances. Are not human in new york are a few weeks ago. There was an raid by Immigration Police on latino family. And in the course of the raid, the Immigration Police ice shot a man in the face who was not a man. They were even looking for people from all around new york came and they surrounded the hospital and of course they were shoved away and there werent enough of them. And when there arent enough of you, its easy for the police to shove your way. But if there are more of them, if there were more of them, that would be what would change things. Im hugely prostrated by the limitations of politics. See politicians in this country all too low to say that one of the reasons that people so enthusiastically voted for bush johnson was that he gave them permission to be racist. This is a guy who says the course called kamel citizens grinning piccaninnies and says that muslim women were in the should all like letterboxes. No, no. And, you know, apparently caused a spike in racist attacks when you wrote these things and said them. But if you cant admit the what the politics is doing is giving people permission to be racist. If you have to, theyre there, doesnt matter. Youre not really racist. You never going to be able to break through. What frustrates me about politics is its euphemistic nature even though everyones trapped in a euphemism. And i want to, i this huge desire to break out of it too, was a thing called truth. I mean, in the american context, kumba happened. Theres a difference between an intellectual and politician, a politicians job is to get as many votes as they can so that they can get into power. And very often, the way that you get as many votes as you can, is you avoid saying that perhaps people didnt just vote for a man who says that hell deport all the mexicans in america just because they had economic anxiety. You know, so you think you think like me, the whole economic executive thing is just an excuse. I think its more complicated than that. I think that there is also a lot of economic anxiety environment, berlin and also people are anti semites when theyre willing to blame their economic anxiety on the jews. I think that in america, it was proven that it wasnt actually people who were poor, who were even white people who were poor, who were voting for trump. And that people who voted for trump a bit more money than people who voted for clinton. I think that people do have a fear of downward mobility thats based on real things, but im with you about the limits of politics. And then theres another limit of politics, which is the limits set by the climate, like even the last politician in the world cannot actually undo all of the damage that weve already done to the planet that will cause us to lose so many of the treasures of this world, and so in addition to politics, right, in addition to someone trying to win votes, you also have to make the world better yourself. And thats something that you do with your hands and your neighbors, right . And then as an artist or as a journalist, youre allowed to say things that photons of politicians cant. But with the, i think we should go to the next round of q. And a who wants to ask a question. Hi. So im with him push ality being one of the kipp pillars of journalism. Both of your journalists and both a few have Strong Political stances. So on that, how does your activism fit your job as fighters . And do you still think that the media can and should strive for an impression to today . I think very often what has been called impartiality is actually an aesthetic where someone speaks in a measured voice and they wear a grey suit. But if you look at it, if you look at how they report things, you can see that its anything but impartial. For instance, police in america have been proven to lie again and again about what happens when they shoot someone. Yet statements by police are taken as fact by the impartial media and theyre not viewed as statements that come from a group that frequently lies. And that is a sort of bias that is hidden by the gray suit and the neutral voice. I think that the duty of a journalist is to truth. And sometimes when you say the truth, that sounds biased, right . Sometimes when you say the truth, you use strong and passionate words because that is what truth is. But for me, i just trouble to get it right. I dont wear grey suits. I mean, i was, i would say if you work for a state broadcaster, or a publicly funded broadcaster in this country and in the united kingdom, you have a statutory duty to be impartial. I mean, and i quit because i dont think thats the primary attribute of journalism. And so i want to be able to tell the truth by saying, look, for example, truth, trump has said racist things. Its also true that our Prime Minister Boris Johnson repeatedly lied about things. So if i want to say, Boris Johnson is a liar, try saying it twice saying even if youre a guest on the b. B. C. Or on regulated news, let alone a reporter been a partys on a freedom be in a partisan of of the struggle against fascism and racism and xenophobia, and horribly violent massage any which is coming away from your country into europe. Millions of pounds are being spent by misogynist groups. No, no, no. I want journalists to stand there on the front line. Thats what were supposed to do. Id like to just go back to a very interesting moments in your conversation when people asked what can we do about fascism . And then molly spoke very movingly in powerfully about the title. There are now concentration camps without borders. It seems to me that is the question at the moment. You talked a lot about the desired spring truth into the public sphere. But how can we, when we faced with the kind of noise that you were talking about earlier, the insane climate of racism in the areas . How can we bring that truth really into the public eye and actually make a difference or it people need to put their bodies on the line. And by this, i dont mean large ceremonial permitted marches where, you know, you go to like the center of the city and you hold your like cool sign and you go home even though those marches are awesome, like nothing, no, no, no slight to them. But the things that have actually stopped fascist policies and in america, for instance, the muslim band was the 1st stop, was people going to the airports and taxi drivers going on strike right . Taxi drivers who are largely muslim immigrants in new york themselves. When people are willing to put their bodies on the line and peacefully use their bodies to stop the machinery of fascism. That is what works in my opinion, will just add to the memory is important. Some of the 1st people in europe who did that were the dutch, the workers of amsterdam. He went on strike and destroy it. You can go to the museum and see that the mimeographed leaflet. And it says theyre trying to take the jews out of amsterdam. Were striking, i mean we objectify the history of the struggle against fascism, those cult, big, heroic moments. And then, and then we forget the rest of it. These were ordinary people. And why i come to the conclusion . Is that what happened in the 1930 s. Was the emergence of something you could call anti fascist morality. Its not just politics. It was a deep seated, almost incandescent hope filled desire to vote. You just said put your body between a fascist and their objective. So i think it is that and how ironic is it that the in america with program with you or in america . If we said anti fascism thats almost because it with terrorism interims lexica anti far, is it he calls them terrorist anti fascists. No of think about that because all the people you celebrate from the movie casablanca, right. Through to the history of the watergate. So they were anti fascists. The other thing that i would say is that the more people, the more numbers of people are involved in something, the last risk there is for anyone else. So how do we stop fascism . Its massive amounts of people and people not just from the targeted group. It cant just be their responsibility, right. But people from the groups thats like the Majority Group that privilege or powerful group mass numbers of those people peacefully, peacefully putting their bodies into the, into the sort of spokes of the machinery of fascism trip it up. If i may just jump in as well, i think there is a little bit of it that we couldnt. We mustnt exonerate here the socalled liberal center. The liberal center in importance arent the german philosopher described fascism as. And when i use this term, im criticised. No, she described as the alliance of the elite and the more i dont think this is what were seeing across western society. Rick perry, rich people, and very angry, poor people allied in favor of racism is organise politics. The lesson of the 130. 00 is that its such a Strong Alliance that the only thing that works against it is an alliance of the center and the left with the centers go to want to be part of the alliance. Exactly where they were. They overcome the cynicism and say, you know what, im going to finance it. So i worked in the general election doing social media and i think an overwhelming frustration is, you know, how, how is this engagement going to translate into votes about it . Books, algorithms favor certain content and we exist in bubbles online. And i guess my question to you is have we overestimated social media, whether it be from 2011 in the arab spring, and even in terms of the, the upkeep of activism through black lives matter as well. I think a social media is incredibly important. Its just not the only thing and its also, its sometimes important in indirect ways. For instance, ever single journalist is on twitter and there are narcissistically checking their mentions all of the time. So if you have a story that you know is very, very important that those journalists would not typically cover. Probably twitter is a really good way to get them to cover it, right. And then that will break it outside of the algorithmic bubble that we find ourselves trapped in. Social media is also a really good way to mobilize your bubble of volunteers to actually leave their homes and knock on doors and speak to other people that arent in your bubble. Its good for some things, but it cannot be the only thing we havent explored the limits of what human beings can do in squares and streets together in a single hour. In cairo, in 2011, people went from saying bread is too expensive. We want freedom dont with the government, the people demand before all of the regime. I think all of the world, the people really during the fall of the regime. And they know the regimes dont form into that. They for in scrappy, concrete, strewn streets, full of tear gas. Thats what we as humans for a lot, i am convinced that large numbers of regimes will fall in the next 10 years, and i hope it comes quicker. Thank you. Nic, thank you all. So we were asked to give in and thought, well, we have to give an antiderivative for because the end is coming near. You want to give us with hammered on a lot about truth, about art and about solidarity and about the things that only humans can do. And the final thought is that as the world is burning around us, and as all of these terrible politicians are clinging on to power. And as you know, grassroots revolutions are being crushed. We need to reconnect with ourselves and our friends, and our family and the physical world and with our hands. Because if climate collapse happens, when disaster happens, the networks will not work anymore. The cell phones wont work, the social media will all be down. And the only saying that you actually have to count on is the people that are around you, and the things that you can all do together yourselves with your own hands and bodies. And of all i can add to that is i come from a left tradition that fought it hard time. Rosa luxemburg, the german revolution. He said, the revolution marches to victory through a series of defeats. And Martin Luther king said the arc of the universe is long, but it tends towards justice. But its not long anymore. Weve only got 30 years to decarbonize the planet. So that ingrained mentality that we on the left have had that we, we might be defeated this time. Were all children, you know, oppressed peoples, always say that, dont leave our children will avengers they more nor the weve got probably 30 years is a critical 30 years. And i hope that everyone will as engaged with politics as you clearly are in this audience. Take strength from that because we can actually we can really wish kunis plan. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Frankly, the collapse that roshon of our institutions began on facebook and i realized i was working for something that was evil. And i had been a part of actually creating it. Its like they invited people to their house and they gave everyone guns and said its the wild, wild west have attempt is still high in queensland. And those hard times tend help to set off some big shells around sydney the last day, but the gold cities are 24 degrees. The showers that are left to be fairly large inland in new south wales, maybe down in victoria. Adelaide still showing the heat as in the Alice Springs for adelaide, have to come down about 31. 00 on sunday, and a stop far off person. Sunday 29. The rain is heading south towards new zealand. Change of season rather more obvious. I suspect in the northeast of china, weve had snow. We had freezing rain damage from them both in vladivostok that arent about minus 6 or the next massive winds coming through in so wet snow in beijing and further south and shot than this. That increasing creep of the cold down through hand generating some rain in central china. I dont think will get much further south into han, but beijing 6 in this code. And so you go 3 to 5 degrees and a frosty night light snow still to fall on saturday when you saw that by sunday. And the sun is probably coming out again. The temp is around about 5 degree mark further sides, apart from the middle of china is fairly dry and that dry extends to most of india and of course, quality is dropping again. But the health of humanity is its stake. A Global Pandemic requires a global response. W. H. O. Is the guardian of Global Health delivering lifesaving to lose supplies and training to help the worlds most vulnerable people, uniting across borders to speed up the development of test treatments and a vaccine keeping you up to date with whats happening on the ground in the ward and in the lab, now, more than ever, the world needs w. H. On making a healthier world for you to everyone countering the cost sambir becomes the 1st african nation to the fold on its debts of the pandemic era. Other steps, pileups Central Banks think the only thinkable negative Interest Rates plus brazil has dubbed the rankings of the worlds top 10, economies countering the cost on aljazeera aljazeera hello. This is the aljazeera news hour live from london coming up. This u. N. Agencies ramp up efforts to help the thousands of ethiopians flooding into so that and call for an immediate ceasefire in p. Grey, ugandan president ial candidate bobby wine is charged and released on bail as the death toll rises from the protests over his arrest