Transcripts For ALJAZ The Bottom Line 20240712

Information has been obtained by iran and separately by russia this data can be used by foreign actors to attempt to communicate false information to registered voters that they hope will cause confusion so chaos and undermine your confidence in american democracy for us president Barack Obama Says donald trump is incapable of taking the job seriously as he made his 1st Campaign Appearance to Joe Biden Obama supporters to vote earning nigerian protesters have defied a curfew to continue demonstrating against Police Brutality the Rights Group Amnesty International says at least 12 people were killed on tuesday. A mass protest has been taking place in the colombian capital of bogota against the social and economic policies of president do the protests are part of a National Strike being led by Union Members students teachers and a large contingent of indigenous population. Of volunteer taking part in trials of a corona virus vaccine as died in brazil but Authorities Say testing will continue is the 1st death reported in the various trials taking place worldwide reports say the person was given a placebo and not the test vaccine at least 25 Afghan Soldiers have been killed in attacks by the taliban according to the government it happened in the northern province of takar the taliban has intensified attacks in the past few weeks as peace talks with the Afghan Government held in cut off on the lease 12 women have been killed in a stampede in afghanistan in a rush to apply for visas to pakistan they were among thousands of people gathered in a temporary venue in a sports stadium in the city of jalalabad so those are the headlines the news continues here on aljazeera after the bottom line stay tuned thanks for watching. Hi im Steve Clements and i have a question how is america going to reconnect with the world after the election battle between donald trump and joe biden lets get to the bottom line. Very soon well know which kind of Foreign Policy americans actually want will the u. S. Be led by a president who shoots from the hip hates International Obligations prefers temporary deals over long term alliances and just could care less about socalled western values or will it be someone who Still Believes in the world order created after world war 2 where america leans in on Global Security and works with allies to solve Big International problems and invest in institutions like nato the w t o and the United Nations with so many questions were fortunate today to be joined by someone who has all the answers at least some of them and master Nicholas Burns has spent close to 30 years in american diplomacy hes worked under republican and democratic administrations and served as the number 3 official in the state department hes also an adviser to the Biden Campaign and teaches diplomacy and International Politics at harvards Harvard University and is director of the world renowned aspen stride Strategy Group nick its great to be with you today let me just ask you point blank as we start this conversation when we look at the question of you know america engaged in the rest of the world does it really matter who wins this election. Oh steve it matters greatly i mean there are 2 very divergent passed the United States in this november 3rd election and you just framed it in your opening dont trump in my judgment has been the weakest american president in our lifetime maybe in all of American History when it comes to the rest of the world he has spurned our alliances hes thrown the global trade pick system into disarray he has not stood up for democracy in a time of the increased power of authoritarian states like china and russia you can see the damage theyre doing to human rights and democracy around the world and steve as you and i know that one of the strengths of america is the fact that were an immigrant nation that were multiethnic and multireligious and maybe multiracial and dont trust being closing the doors to immigrants who strengthen our society as well as to refugees so i think you turn to american Foreign Policy upside down were more isolated were not respected by our friends and it shows in a pew Public Opinion poll just last month which showed that in many allied countries around the world Vladimir Putin and she isnt paying have a higher confidence rating in places like germany and donald trump thats a crisis the United States joe biden is the antithesis and he will return us i think to the global role that we need to play you when you kind of look at this kind of broad question about you know the election we dont know the outcome of this election but theyre whether joe biden wins or not a huge number of americans are going to vote for donald trump what has not connected with them about the importance of the american Foreign Policy course that youre talking about well hopefully as you noted im going to advisor to the Biden Campaign a bigger number of americans will vote for joe biden and steve i can cite into your question by saying look at our Public Opinion polls the American People consistently rate nato very highly 75 percent of americans support it in the Chicago Council and global affairs. Poll the American People are not isolationist not the majority of the American People they want us to Pay Attention to our alliances they want us to be involved in efforts to stem the pandemic the majority of americans dont believe we should have left the World Health Organization so i think that Vice President biden is much more in tune with the greatest number of people in the United States the majority than donald trump for those supporting donald trump perhaps they think that his kind of bravado on the world stage and telling it like it is and the out right castigation in criticism of our allies its a very freshening way for an american president to act perhaps they dont feel connected to the reality and that is that you know a great number of jobs in the United States depend on our ability to export were connected to the Global Economy and the big issue steve that you and i have talked about Climate Change the pandemic the Global Economy and getting out of the recession the u. S. Cant do that alone weve got to be engaged with the world thats what joe biden represents nick you and i is also talking about the trust deficit out there in the rest of the world that when they dont think they can necessarily count on the United States in their dark days those are allies when you get to problematic countries you know theyre filling a void right now in their own behavior and actions i guess my question to you is can trust balance back or snap back. Well steve i think ive separated 2 categories many of the allied governments take the governments of the nato countries are east asian alliances with a strange idea japan south korea i think if joe biden wins there are no welcome him back and welcome engaged productive and active america back on the global scene because they want to see that america is in the interests of those countries to have the United States be active in the world i frankly think that foreign publics it may take a while for them to come back you know we left under Donald Trumps real leadership we made the disastrous decision to leave the paris Climate Change agreement you and i know you know pretty well its little is the major issue in europe Climate Change along with a pandemic i dont think public will forgive the United States as easily it will have to earn back the trust on the pandemic we are the largest we were the largest financial contributor to the world wont help organization and we left it and left the rest of the world high and dry in the middle of a pandemic thats going to take a while to come back but you know what percentage in effort with decades of experience the track record that joe biden has i think could close that gap with publics as well you know 2 of the biggest features of the Obama Administration where the Iran Nuclear Deal the j c. P. O. Way but also something you know many people dont talk very much about but president obama had for Nuclear Summit but dealing with Nuclear Materials nonproliferation and weve seen the deterioration of those deals with the russians and other parties out there i guess my question is is a u. Turn possible on some of these key pieces of what president obama tried to put in place but but but president didnt continue. Well i think certainly no one thinks we can go back to the world of 2016 you know Vice President biden if you elect is going to be projecting forward in this decade but youre right steve were living perhaps at the most unsecure time in terms of the safety and the number of the types of Nuclear Weapons in the 1900 from the 1960 s. The i. N. F. Treaty interment in intermediate range Nuclear Forces treaty lapsed a year and a half ago the start treaty that limits between the United States and russia the most powerful Intercontinental Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Warheads that is going to lapse on february 1st 2021 just a couple of months from now unless there is action and you see china completely unconstrained as a Nuclear Weapons power you saw india and pakistan clash last year fortunately mercifully it without Nuclear Weapons but they did with conventional weapons so i think arms control limiting. The number and type of Nuclear Weapons both strategic an intermediate is going to be a major priority and again Vice President biden has a lot of experience in this domain with a lot of good people around him but President Trump has made a hash of it so it just adds to that list of actions that will be on president elect joe bidens plate on january 20th in just a couple of months if he if he does win this election nic youve dealt with the entire world and understand the priority of threats that are facing the country im just interested in how if if you and the biden team come in how are they going to deal with russia how are they going to deal with china in ways that are different than what we see today. Well steve youll appreciate this i certainly dont want to if i was president bidens elected president the United States i dont want to predict what hes going to do hell have to make those decisions if that time comes ill just keep my personal view though i think theres no question that here in the United States were looking at a very worrisome rise of chinese aggressiveness and chinese power in the world that it really has to be issue number one for the United States in terms of the threats to the country to see what china did just during the pandemic this past summer its aggressive actions to stop a conflict with india on their very long border in the himalayas the fact that china smothered hong kongs democracy this past summer with a new security law that it was aggressive and bullying towards the philippines and vietnam and the South China Sea and very much aggressive and sanctioning towards the United States the rise of china and the aggressiveness of the xi jinping government is a fundamental issue for the United States id id put frankly out glad im here putin is acting in a similarly aggressive way if you look at what hes done in ukraine the threats hes made to the people just trying to demonstrate for democracy and valeries the threats constantly to our nato allies in Eastern Europe that these 2 authoritarian powers are challenging the democratic world and unfortunately steve we dont have an american president right now who will stand up to them he wants to embrace them and hes not been tough enough and Strong Enough in dealing with him i think thats problem number one of course terrorism and the threat of terrorism is an abiding concern and a very serious continued threat to the United States we know that the Islamic State is still not completely destroyed and that has to be a goal of the United States and our allies certainly on top of all of that in terms of immediate importance its the coronavirus and its the pandemic the 2nd wave that we think we may now be experienced. And here in the United States the United States has to work both within our country and also with other countries to bring it to a close hopefully with the arrival of it back seen if that happens in 2021 and the dispersal and distribution of that vaccine around the world and around the United States trying to climb out of the global recession that has been so injurious to so Many Americans whoevers elected and i hope is going to be Vice President biden is going to have perhaps the most difficult global agenda that any president has faced since the 1930 s. Global a National Agenda i should say since franklin up wrote Eleanor Roosevelt was elected in 1932 but joe bidens up to it and hes going to have a lot of support in the country to be an activist president who tries to heal the country and unite has to combat these these Major Concerns how do you make that case to americans that feel that they fought in iraq they fought in afghanistan they fought in korea they fought in vietnam you know generations of military families who feel after financial crises and you know sort of tough times that they fought these wars helping to secure the world but sort of china has won and im related to a lot of these folks and he gave you know it helped fuel you know some of the rise of donald trump but it also has helped fuel it Bernie Sanders and you know. And that kind of left wing of the Democratic Party i know that you talk to lots of communities and im just sort of interested in that dimension of america that thinks americas engagement with the world is not paying off very well what do you say to them. Well firstly i think youre right to raise this issue i am hearing that from people and i think you and i have both been hearing it for a number of years now i think theres a recognition what i would say very respectfully when i do speak around the country to people as youre right america cannot go it alone and america should not have to shoulder the burden of these responsibilities alone and thats why we have alliances when i was u. S. Ambassador to nato going into afghanistan every single they dont ally came in with us and they suffered they have suffered over a 1000 combat deaths and many many more thousands wounded theyve really paid the price with us when we didnt when we went to iraq in 2003 or fewer went in with us but many did more than 18 of the nato countries eventually went into iraq with us so hopefully were not going to be fighting these big land wars hopefully we can draw down to level of American Forces continue to end iraq and afghanistan but we need to be ready and strong to defend the United States i think every american would agree on that and i think one of the central issues here and i say this to people steve is were stronger in our alliances and leading our alliances and working with our allies than trying to be unilateral us going alone and i feel the President Trump has a son a unilateral course which pushes all the pressure on our taxpayers and i military to shoulder these burdens better to disperse it among our allies and better to be very reluctant to engage in major land wars in the middle east or asia in the future because weve certainly over the last 20 years paid the price for those kinds of engagements and i have to say steve i was involved in the Bush Administration in prosecuting the war in afghanistan and certainly present in that administration would end to iraq so ive got to bear some responsibility for this and one of the lessons that ive certainly learned and many others have learned is that we need to be very reluctant to use our military power only. When the chips are down there is no other option and we ought to be putting our diplomats on point its hard to do that now when donald trump has weakened the state department so much but i hope we can strengthen the state department and lead diplomatically i think a lot of americans want us to do that you know one of the other areas of thats been kind of a constant all server in the world but also a problem area for United States is the middle east and i cant explain what weve done 1000000 away and we bombed libya hardly been involved in the aftermath or tried to negotiate palestinian israeli peace but weve withdrawn you know support from the palestinians you have look at. Death and the relationship with the saudis and how to manage that or with the gulf and im just interested in what you think i like to call it the north star but what should be the principles whether its interests or concern over human rights that ought to be guiding our engagement in a senior middle east policy. Well i think this is the most unstable and dangerous part of the world and it will be for the next decade or so the modern middle east 22. 00 arab countries israel turkey iran and were going to have to have a multifaceted approach i do think steve that the china threat and a focus on china is going to be the largest issue certainly recovery at home from the pandemic and they cannot make collapse the recession is the major priority for any. Any future administration on the middle east i think we need to be reluctant to use our middle military force only when necessary we should be Forward Deployed there as we are in places like saudi arabia and kuwait but frankly it is no longer going to be the central focus of the United States the way it has in the last few decades we need to be obviously protective of our friends protective of israel protective of the gulf arab states working with egypt and jordan friends of ours in the region we ought to be wanting to work with them to try to contain it rainy and power and what i mean is what the iranians are doing to blow up places like yemen and syria and iraq and and certainly gaza and lebanon and thats i think most middle east countries arab countries and israel can agree that iran needs to be contained and frankly as if the civil Syrian Civil War can can slowly end and be better for it quickly and it but most people are predicting that weve got to be part of the recovery helping the people of those countries to recover certainly we want to be present in the middle east but weve been so present we focus so many resources there that weve actually been late to the china challenge and thats one of the mistakes the President Trump has made among the many many mixed up mistakes hes made you know one of the books that became one of the most sought after books after. 911 occurred was a book by talmud johnson called blowback the costs and consequences of american empire and you know a couple of the points that challenge johnson raised was that america had done things in the world and sort of disregarded what the reactions of those partners were those communities and what that might be and when i look at the global refugee crisis today when i look at how big it is and i look at the way in which some leaders have demeaned dangle americal who took in a 1000000 refugees and you know the rise of populism im just wondering if worth one of these moments where well look back and say wow our disregard for people in time of need and refugee crisis is going to lead to substantial blowback and i id love to get your thoughts on that because it do you do you share with me that this is an urgent concern that we are making a big mistake on i do steve the United Nations says that there are 69000000 refugees and internally displaced people in the world today thats the largest number of refugees since the summer the world war 2 ended in 1945 to give you a degree of the huge suffering out there the understates is always going to generous nation we are an immigrant nation and were refugee nation Albert Einstein Henry Kissinger Madeleine Albright all refugees to the United States and our tradition really for a half a century is that we take in 60 to 70000 refugees a year weve taken the greatest number of refugees of any country weve taken up to a 1000000 immigrants a year and make them citizens and they strengthen our country refugees and immigrants make us demographically younger and you want to have a big workforce and the younger population to pick to earn to be productive earn the wealth that pays for Senior Citizens and of course it infuses our economy with talent if you think about the fact that 3 of our 4 biggest tech or 5 Biggest Tech Company Tech Companies are run by an indian immigrants to the United States its a powerful force so to see donald trump close the doors on him a. Creations imposed a religious means test you dont want muslims coming into the United States thats unamerican to feel like that instead its been a lot of attention in the press to the plight of refugees and the president s essentially shut down the flow of refugees into the United States its not its not in our moral and ethical interest to do that and it runs contrary to what we know is the right thing to do and its not even the smart thing to do because these people become american citizens they want to be part of our society they contribute within a couple of years as workers in a Small Business owners so the arguments are clear but the president is stuck back in some 1000 century view of america and were living in the 21st century we have to compete and i do hope we can turn this around a new administration you know nick one of my friendly criticisms of the Obama Administration was that after the financial crisis and after a moment of just doubt on every front that was an opportunity i thought that was missed to sort of revise International Institutions like the United Nations to give a place to some of the rising powers that needed to be brought in and in a more substantial way into Decision Making in the un and redo the Security Council etc and that there could be credit that came to the United States for being the one that was selfless in that moment in helping these and do you think that moment is passed because when i look at International Institutions and whether they work or not anymore as donald trump is pulling out one of the question is could they ever work again can you bounce back without bringing in the turkeys in the indias in the brazils. Well i think i think its not too late steve these institutions have really had great value and the most of them were inspired if not created by the United States by democratic and republican administrations in the last 75 years and youve got to continually modernize them President Trump for instance the port a president obama excuse me supported india for permanent membership on the United Nations Security Council it didnt happen but he took that step president george h. W. Bush when congolese rice was secretary of state actually made and i worked with condi on this a major effort to try to modernize the Security Council the fact is thats a good example steve the Security Council looks like the power balance of 1945 if you dont have to pay man or india or an african country or a south American Country it on the Security Council as a permanent member it doesnt really reflect but world as it is doesnt reflect at all the world as it is in the 21st century so the i. M. F. The world bank the World Health Organization needs reform the World Trade Organization where china is getting off with a lot of large as needs reform and what President Trump has done is to say its too hard they dont do everything we say were walking away thats not our leader operate so a leader will understand that we have to pinch in the american voice has to be heard right United States needs to put shoulder to it and i think thats what i hope very much that america returned a better attitude one last question nic i recently had a conversation with former National Security advisor h. R. Mcmaster and he made this point thats been hovering in my brain a little bit said america to succeed needs to become less strategically narcissistic that it needs to become a more empathetic nation both with its rivals but also with its allies it needs to understand where theyre coming from because it just cant you know be a might makes right nation that plods through the World Without regard to consequence for others and im interested in this concept and whether you think hes on to something. Well i think he might he d maybe i think what hes trying to say and what i certainly believe is that we need to put our diplomats front 1st Forward Deployed for the United States are we need to be looking to be working with other countries in a much more productive way say in the World Health Organization for instance returning to nato and that weve got to leave diplomats and work on problems like Climate Change and future pandemics these are not military issues they wont work if we put the 82nd airborne forward they were well for us well be able to resolve them if our diplomats are front and center that tells rebuilding the state department i do think at the same time steve weve got to be tough with our adversaries like china and russia tough to stand up for American Values and interests the way the President Trump is not and that some there are times we have to cooperate with them and say im with china we should be tough minded and limiting our military ambitions but we ought to work with them on Climate Change and work with them in the last stage of ending the pandemic we have to be realistic and forward looking and weve got a president ial candidate joe biden who can do all that the President Trump will lead us down the wrong path well the ambassador are Nicholas Burns good friend i want to thank you for your thoughts today were going to see very soon which kind of Foreign Policy americans want thank you for joining us today steve thanks very much for this opportunity so whats the bottom line some countries are quite open about their preferred candidate russia turkey israel and some of the gulf states come to mind they want donald trump but guess what they dont get to vote other nations would like to see a different america more and gauged in global problem solving but lets not forget that that america is still america with or without trump this is still the country that invaded iraq for dubious reasons and it bombed nations like libya without doing much to deal with the bloody aftermath there the bigger question is can the United States ever become a more thoughtful and less narcissistic superpower itll take much more than one election for that to happen and thats the bottom line. I want you to know our nation is going to do defeatist said terrible china virus as we call it there is no place for hate in america well im feeling great out of about your worry mask is not a political statement its a scientific recommendation in the final president ial t. V. Debate live on al jazeera. When i think of my life i think of potential when i think of what a shot i think what the what is not i think of the young people really need to do to get control to the island and do something that they come to. Tell me its impossible i think to the challenge. The reason the challenge in the country. Money is mendacious all and this is my. My nigeria on aljazeera. There is no channel that covers world news like we do as a roaming correspondent i am constantly on the go covering topics from politics to conflict is stuff to Environmental Issues the scale of this camp is like nothing youve ever seen accept all carry on so we want to know is how do these things affect people we revisit places and states even when theyre no international headline. Aljazeera really invests in that and thats a privilege as a journalist. He began with a move and to put it just here i got shot i fell down i felt like i was that the documentary filmmaker once granted unconditional assigner contrasts his experiences with those seeking refuge today and intimate you know of the consequences of the policies of detained just really unnecessary all this misery they cannot absorb this number that people have to suffer and in this way it is an excerpt of a refugee stand on aljazeera. Hello im daryn jordan with a quick reminder of the top stories on aljazeera the u. S. Federal bureau of investigation says iran and russia have obtained some Voter Registration information the f. B. I. Says the aims to cause confusion and chaos in the upcoming us president ial election we have identified that 2 foreign actors iran and russia have taken specific actions to influence