Transcripts For ALJAZ Inside Story 20240712

Since the disputed parliamentary election earlier this month the largest Prisoner Exchange in yemen civil war is underway in sanaa more than a 1000 detainees are being swapped between the rebels and the saudis. The u. N. Special envoy for yemen has been Briefing Members of the Security Council. The implementation of this agreement will build confidence and indeed momentum by demonstrating a simple truth that peaceful dialogue. Between the parties deliver the road to peace prisoners agreement does not include many thousands more of yemenis detained during the course of this project and it is therefore our obligation and the obligation of the parties to convene very soon to discuss further releases. Corona virus cases are surging across europe and countries are imposing new restrictions to curb the outbreak in the u. K. London is moving to the 2nd highest covert 19 alert level a new 3 tier lockdown system has come into force in england italys recorded its highest single day tally of new infections since the start of the pandemic its reported there the 9000 new cases on thursday infections there are surging again particularly in the north the speaker of the Cypriot Parliament demetrius sirus has resigned in the cat wake of a cash for passport scandal and al jazeera investigation found senior politicians who were willing to sell subpoenaed passports to convicted criminals the government has now boyish the program its inside story now stay with us. New tensions in the Eastern Mediterranean turkeys under fire for resuming exploration for oil and gas and israel and lebanon are arguing over maritime rights so can these disputes be contains does the plough missy still have a chance this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program im dreading turkeys renewed size makes survey in the Eastern Mediterranean has reignited tensions with greece both nato members claim the right to drill the same area is believed to be rich in natural gas athens considers the redeployments of a turkish vessel in disputed waters a major escalation and says it will push for a u. S. Sanctions against turkey ankara insists the operations are within its Continental Shelf and its responding to provocations by athens it had pulled the vessel out of the waters last month saying it would encourage diplomacy but president. Says greece and cyprus have failed to fulfill their promises and now the turkish leader has threatened to take action. Out of you then we will continue to give the response they deserve in the field to greece and the Greek Cypriot administration who have not kept their promises during talks within the e. U. And nato platforms where both countries had agreed to hold preliminary discussions to is the dispute earlier this month but the greek prime minister. Says appen is wont engage with ankara as long as the vessel remains in the region. We offer to be a very clear choice as the research. Council. Renewed partnership or series consequences has this aggressive behaviors continue and unfortunately it seems for the moment that the. Rules are in the 2nd half. Lets bring in our guests joining us from istanbul is matthew riser whos a senior fellow at the Atlantic Council and a former u. S. Diplomat who worked on the greece cyprus and turkey issues at the u. S. State departments over in london is james carlin was a visiting professor at the London School of economics researching greece turkey relations and the cyprus conflict and over a nigga c. And cyprus andrei as a theophanous was the president of the Cyprus Center for european and International Affairs and a former economic adviser to the president s of cyprus welcome to inside story thanks very much for your time Matthew Bryza turkey has now redeployed that vessel to disputed waters what message is that sending out by doing so i think what president everyone is doing is saying you know we were hoping that there were going to be some deescalate terry talks under the auspices of nato European Union. And well the way the government here is played it is that they they were upset when last week the greek government issued a nap text to a notification that they were going to conduct naval exercises in the aegean sea and on turkeys National Independence day thats what it felt like a raw nerve was touched because that independence these actually commemorating the end of a war fought between turkey on one side and then greece and United Kingdom and others on the other side. But let me ask you this early on said this and i quote we will continue to give the response they deserve on the field to greece and the Greek Cypriot administration who have not kept their promises during talks within the e. U. And nato platforms. Well what are these responses. Yeah and i dont know exactly what he has in mind because i dont know what transpired in those discussions but my understanding is that the talks were going ok and the idea was well lets deescalate tensions. And lets have a discussion about this legal dispute from the or turkish perspective which is murky its not a concrete black and white situation as to whos right whos wrong so in terms of responses i think what it means is being you know potentially dangerously ambiguous suggesting there could be military force involved but what i think it means is that the seismic sort of a ship or trace is going to continue its exploration that drill ships are going to continue their exploration and theyre going to be probably accompanied by turkish navy vessels and james again lets just focus in on what the president of turkey had to say when he says that greece and the Greek Cypriot administration have not kept their promise says he didnt spell out what those promises exactly were from yet your understanding james and what does he mean by this well you know its a very confusing situational round because i think the point that was just made was was was very good it was to say look its a particular viewpoints on the nature of these disputes it also has a very particular viewpoint on how these disputes should be addressed namely in bottle negotiations but the big problem that weve seen is that its using what is seen by many outsiders to be an overly aggressive tactic to try and bring greece certainly to the negotiating table and so it and its very unclear to know exactly what words one means on one any given day on the lots of issues so what he might have in mind its probably not what a lot of tokyo apartment has been made so and certainly European Union have in mind for how we should be dealing with these disputes yeah and you know well certainly get into the discuss. Nato in the air but let me ask you james then what greece has in mind because matthew ries i just correctly pointed out that athens did hold military drills in the ajayan sea one of turkeys Main National holidays so whats behind that message and what is the message that afghans are sending out well look i mean i think the important thing to bear in mind is that you know there is quite a long history of greece and turkey needle in each other on paris issues and things but what were seeing here is a resurgent old dispute between greece and turkey that we had felt had actually dissipated to a certain extent over the past 20 years over the past point years its been getting steadily worse i think and what we see now is that crisis but you know we were looking 20 years ago at a major process of represent the way it looked like there might be a window of opportunity the 2 countries to start to address these bigger issues and thats now disappeared and one thing that really stands out anyone who works on these sorts of issues is that its so much easier to address these sort of maritime disputes if there is an element of goodwill the trust between 2 countries not some countries how maritime disputes what were seeing here is a gradual ratcheting up or quite significant ratcheting up of the tensions between the 2 countries which is just creating if you like a vicious circle which makes it more more difficult for them to sit down and not even work out how theyre going to you know what they dont do to solve the problem but how the region going to talk about solving the problem and brass let me bring you in from nicosia and were also going to get into the issue of cyprus in a moment but 1st of all just weigh in on the situation between greece and turkey it is there any goodwill at this point to resolve issues. With will from whom from thing over time i think over time since has been exhibiting. Goodwill and it was supporting turkey in its european and visions expecting that there would be reciprocal steps that did not happen. Talking from nicosia in relation to cyprus well we must not forget that for 46 years turkey is occupying 30 percent of the territory of cyprus it has been provoking the you know invading the exclusive Economic Zone of cyprus recently in brussels there were no sunshines against turkey instead the union European Union called for talks and would wanted to see a process through which problems in this dimitry and would be resolved for a few days after that it took a step in relation to the fence if youre russia and it is moving towards opening that which is contrary to the United Nations Security Council resolutions only known from our perspective we see that turkey to the region is powered in or took on himself does not conceal this fact he has repeatedly the clear that he would like to see the trigger was done. Revised in relation to cyprus he does not in or he has stated many times that he considered that he does not recognize that public of cyprus and its right to accept it to exist yet when it comes to these the many 20 and it invokes. Part of the 960 agreements to demand to explain or write serve for turkey in the Turkish Cypriots while at the same time for getting up legations i think at this point i think at this point time. There is certainly what i would see a lot of suspicion. Mistrust in the claim it does not its not positive i understand on the other hand the major powers in the European Union as well as the United States would like to see some form of de loke you know that these tensions but it takes 2 to tango ok lets talk about the e. U. For a moment andras ill stick with you for a 2nd because the e. U. As you pointed out did threaten turkey with sanctions if it according to the e. U. Failed to stop what the block was describing as a legal drilling and Energy Exploration activities in this particular area on the Eastern Mediterranean. But now the voices are growing again for sanctions but do you actually think the e. U. Will be going down that route and does the e. U. All speak in one voice when it comes to turkey certainly not i mean like the European Union has not yet developed into it your political power that it will have a strong and you know anyone say in this than me or elsewhere but i think in the case of cyprus. We can think outside the box let me put on the table some suggestions. Croaky woods took in the turks approach would like to see the cooperation between the dixie proves anthropos improves on the Energy Issues even before this recession theres a post problem. I think it would be good eve that is going to take place turkey should agree to the exclusive Economic Zone between cyprus and turkey and at the same time. Move what weve been conditioned all the relevant Security Council resolutions on what osha that is allow they could accept legal residence or but would have to return under the auspices of the un i think and that is and that such a scenario where we have some small but major steps towards cooperation at least that. It may create a positive climate who refuse 10 assurance and at least try to build on some confidence ok here i thought for a 2nd but james james and you like to jump and yes we can be very honest and say look it sounds nice to have confidence Building Measures but ive been working on cyprus for 30 years and i can tell you that all confidence Building Measures do is actually reduce trust we need to be focusing on an overall settlement so the idea that youre going to get the greek and Turkish Cypriots to sit down and reach a comprehensive deal on energy. And not do it i just cant see it happening and all were going to do is get drawn into this debate for another couple of years where the cyprus problem as a whole is just going to sit and languish and theyve got to talk and talk a little talk around the issues it wont achieve any successful outcome ratso so what are you what are you proposing. I think that you know we really need to speak focusing on what we should always be focusing on which is a comprehensive settlement of the cyprus problems that once you get the parties together to sort this issue all these issues get resolved at a stroke you stole the cyprus problem you will be talking about the that to a recognition of the entire island of cyprus its territorial waters you know there may be some issues that will need to be sorted out with one crew but it becomes much more manageable the chinese piecemeal sort of confidence Building Measures day history of the cyprus problem is shown that competence Building Measures actually do more more harm than good very little ever comes out of it and it just undermines trust so i dont really think that what we need to be doing is focusing on how were going to get the sites back to the negotiating table theres major elections coming up in Northern Cyprus this weekend which might provide a chance for regime the un negotiation process and this is a practically i think where we need to be focusing. Very much and mike if i may yet and go ahead and go ahead and dress any matthew ill come over to you in just a 2nd go ahead and dress i have made the suggestion of because of what james is suggesting that took place for 4 to 6 years and it didnt work out that the policy pursued so far and in relation to the cyprus question we will see that the u. N. Process of putting to community was asians by community was interest be the press is only one dimensional the problem yet the major problem is the fact that tricky. 30 percent of the tell you tell your side cross it because its more selfless it has come from the northern part of the island Turkish Cypriots less than 50 percent minority even in the north and part of cyprus so i think even the process that we have web so far to be then where truckee used these time these young who couldnt solely date and affect the situation. I was born with that puppy persepolis and that in 60 i went to the gym because been doing going to work in cyprus but im leaving here and they have experienced step by step what else they can place will be easiest and our perception is different yes it would be it would be great to see a complete consume supplement and i think who over time could accept have made concessions that. Nobody would have been thinking about for it some ok. Were just right i just want to Say Something yeah ok. Its 2. 00 to 1. 00 so hes a low i mean in relation to what weve come to concede in cyprus you have to if you were eve you were poor for what could exist over twitter disapproves i think that was the note problem it took years went ok i understand what youre saying about the issue of cyprus matthew let me bring you in because obviously the gist gusen is heading into this the differences when it comes to the island of cyprus so there are many issues at play here but lets just get back to the issue of gas and Energy Resources and mediation efforts because. Weve seen kind of an absence by the u. S. When it comes to this germany has sought to mediate between greece and Turkey France has weighed in as well but its waited more explicitly on the side of the greeks to what extent can diplomacy be achieved at this point and by whom the i think at this point we are at an impasse for me going back to what mr funds are saying and james as well there are all these years 40 some you 46 years of trying to reach a comprehensive solution i think. 2 years ago when that or 3 years ago when the last round of u. N. Mediated talks collapsed i think turkey kind of gave up because as mr theophanous says he sees the Greek Cypriots as having made significant. Concessions that turkish side thinks they did to including to withdraw all of its troops from the island so the un. Yes i think its kind of dead the u. S. Is absent and i think what weve seen throughout the course of the summer is that the biggest outside player right now is france and its been its been president. Has a lot of enmity with or toward president ever to one i mean france and turkey have squared off on different sides in syria and libya now in azerbaijan and so i think a mediator i would ultimately have to be the European Union as a whole unless the u. N. Could get back in but right now the prospects of mediation i think are really remote well ok speaking of the u. S. And where it hasnt been absent theres another dispute on maritime rights in the Eastern Mediterranean and thats between lebanon israel so they started their 1st round of indirect talks on gas explorer ace and rights at stake there are more than 860 square kilometers a water is that both claimed are in their exclusive Economic Zone the 1st session on wednesday was hosted by the United Nations it was mediated by the u. S. And it marks a 1st step in efforts to demarcate maritime borders between those 2 countries james so the u. S. Clearly involved in these maritime discussions between lebanon and israel so another source of tension in the region do you expect a breakthrough there well i mean you know were sitting with a you know a very very different environment than a lot of us who spent many decades working on Eastern Mediterranean or actually even frankly used to trying to get our heads around because the whole pattons of the relationship in the region the fundamentally also not i can remember 9090 so that you looked at the geopolitically environment in the Eastern Mediterranean sea best friends we took in the struggle there was absolutely no love lost whatsoever between the republic of cyprus and israel or d even between greece and the israel and then now you look at this situation where everything has been turned on its head. And now we see cyprus is really bloody not theres a theres a lot in effect of the going on between cyprus and israel and greece and the israel turkey israel relationship is well that thats thats thats past history. And then now youre starting to see things like talks between israel and lebanon which i think many people would have felt would have been just completely beyond the pale even a few years ago at interim tosswill must point out though they are in direct talks changing ok james ill stick with you for one more question 6 then is do you agree with matthew that at this point it has to it has to be a talks under the u. N. Auspices or are you members when it comes to a sense or came cant you be objective here with both aggress and cyprus being members. Well i think you know this is where we get into that sort of problematic picture because although we tend to lump greece and turkey these issues along with cyprus they are actually rather different from each other the question of cyprus is you know i think address it it was about invasion occupation to an extent yes it is but you know that ignores the fact that theres a fundamental issue between greek unsightly separates and i think you know its abortion of just count out the Turkish Cypriots in that way but when you talk about the issues between greece and turkey these are much more legally centered essentially greece and turkey sorted out their boundaries 100 years ago under the treaty of lows and what weve seen is the development of International Law and the fact that greece and turkey need to be able to find a way to talk about it boundaries now that the extent of territory that they can claim is very different under International Law and this is a problem and i think there is room for greece and turkey to sort out their problems again a lot of its to do a good will you know if theres goodwill and mistrust and they can sit down and they can really talk about it and really big issues of ptolemy items of cost of dollars of which i probably wont go into a lot of detail here but it means that that to be greece suddenly gets of not a big chunk of these the mediterranean which turkey bails is a fundamentally unfair so its how they sorted out county negotiate and then take it to the International Court of justice or do they try to get some sort of legal operation from day one or just stick to negotiations so at the moment they arent finding ways to talk about how to talk about their problems and rare does nato step in here or can nato play that mediating role i mean there have been about 60 rounds of talks in the space of 14 years between greece and turkey and theyve brought little progress and now were at a position where talks are just completely stalled. Before it gets through europe for to get. To answer your question let me say that i think mr president you know updating critics is its fact i think if you were to agree to withdraw its troops from cyprus and also agree that there should be different counties or example Security Council to get into the republic of cyprus that it would be a big step towards resolving the cyprus question i think that they see is perhaps the most thorny issue but turkey is not giving up its that i treat socalled right to we can but about we talking about the calmest we in cyprus thats point number one just stand by for a 2nd man you would you like to respond yeah those are the 2 points deter turkey giving up its right of guarantee enter key agreeing to withdraw all of its troops over time over the island when i was involved with the socalled ana back in the early 2000 but those were the final sticking points and im not going to divulge sources but i can say i know from high up in the un apparatus people who are not in the talks that turkey did in fact put those 2 things on the table and cyprus rejected so i think that that might certainly said ok why dont i try that and try as i know for fact that i dont plan to do with the future or right country. But the fact that 76 percent would vote no its indicative of. An even unjust but you know very well mr andres i said at the sake of time just tell me how you see this Going Forward in terms of mediation in my view most of these that given the fact that for 46 years weve tried to set them present didnt work out my fellow sophie is that we should try any whooshed body process we should go side by side with trying to address the it trying to reach a comprehensive solution of the problem its not out of the thats the way im suggesting im bringing this to the table and i might have to make and you know i suggest that i mean some suggestions which i think it could be quick starting point to move on to a good. Something reduce tensions and that would put it in force would we look towards resolving the cyprus question i think in relation to nato troops its part of nato cyprus is not part of nato for right that may create a prop but i think so we have the European Union we have the Security Council or the United Nations i think these should be addressed in the end for me its not either or its very clear that the case of say what has been taking place you know cypriots who have experienced. All these years we know that tricky you know it does not that it was that i had the public of cyprus we exist we have on record turkish officials saying that even the one single terrorists uproot the knock on the island of cyprus so he would want to have a strong sail on developments on the ok and of course they will have to leave it there on that note thank you very much sir for joining us Matthew Bryza james carlins e. N. And u. S. Theophanous thank you very much for your time with us thank you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com for further discussion you can go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at 18 so i store it from myself and the whole team here in doha thanks very much for watching and goodbye for now. Temperatures are on the rise Global Warming is taking effect. As one of the worlds biggest emitters of Greenhouse Gases the u. S. Is set to withdraw from the Paris Climate Accord the day after the president ial election we care and we will deal with Climate Change for the new president reverse the decision in time and face up to the Climate Crisis for all of the key issues of the us elections on aljazeera. I know that corruption has reached a level like never ever before in our country. Rank outsider. To president of the United States. 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