Transcripts For ALJAZ Inside Story 20240712

Palace which is here and. This is al jazeera these are the headlines courts in kenya has convicted 2 men for their role in a Shopping Center attack 7 years ago a 3rd was acquitted the men were charged with helping alshabaab fighters storm Nairobis Westgate mall 67 people were killed during a siege that lasted for days catherine so i was outside the courts and sent us this update. The prosecution had 44 witnesses and the case was really heavily hinged on telephone conversations that the prosecution says the accused with the attackers were killed in that siege that took 4 days in 2318 so the prosecution saying that for example one of the sas one of the accused spoke a 109 times we thought one of the attackers between june 28th and september he said the other 2 accused also interacted with with the attackers leaders of the great far rights Golden Dawn Party have been found guilty of running a criminal gang police fired tear gas at their supporters who began exactly why for protesters and the police after the virtex Foreign Ministers of armenia and azerbaijan will meet officials from russia france and the us in the coming Days International mediators have been trying to resolve the border fights over gun Nagorno Karabakh which has forced half of its residents to flee their homes that serve state stay with us on aljazeera inside story is up next. They say they want to create an Islamic State in northern mozambique has links to iceland opposing the growing threat in the area so how all such on groups growing stronger and with all the countries to prevent if we general security crisis this is inside story. Welcome to the program. Villages beheaded and homes torched in northern mozambique more than 2000 people were killed and 300000 displaced over the past 3 years following attacks by fighting linked to i sale and as the security if west from the armed group has grown significantly in recent months the lives of many more are now at risk the fight to see is a key port in mozambiques cup with the province in august the area is new offshore gas projects worth tens of billions of dollars and towns and roads in the province have also recently been attacked the government has been struggling to contain the fight says and is the International Community for help we will talk to our guests shortly 1st this report from malcolm webb. Giulietta car lost says shes never seen anything like the recent attack on her village in mozambique by an armed group in one of the 79 years shes been alive. We saw our houses burned and they started beheading people we ran away our home is far from here and it took us about 2 weeks to get here. Now shes among hundreds hoping to find food and shelter here at a center for displaced people near the town of pemba everyone tells similar stories. Sammy says the fighters abducted many children he was lucky to escape with his order so they wouldnt let us leave then they took us to a school and read out our names when they beheaded them with a machete while everyone was watching. The attackers of armed groups who say they want to create an Islamic State their attacks on the mainly Muslim Population began sporadically 3 years ago this year theyve grown stronger occupying some towns in cabo delgado province for nearly 2 months theyve controlled the port town of muslim border prior theyve made regular attacks on other towns roads in the province and some islands too thats made the town of parma only accessible by air and there steadily getting closer to the air from deep in insular around which there are tens of billions of dollars worth of natural gas deposits. The deposits lie offshore in the Indian Ocean International Oil Companies including total and any that invested billions of dollars in preparation to extract it the local populations been marginalized and most have lived in poverty for generations watching the investment foreigners getting jobs has ceded discontent and fueled the rebellion which some analysts say could stop the gas projects entirely i think there. Will not. Be. Near. Mozambiques armed forces have steadily lost ground to the armed groups military support from the European Union and funding from the us both being discussed but nothings been finalized yet. Securing the coastal catholics traction facilities might be possible securing the 2000000 people who live across the province will be much more difficult malcolm webb aljazeera. Lets bring in our guests impending mozambique fende on the limb a political commentator and chairman of media to an independent media group in mozambique in oslo stigall hansen professor in International Relations of the no Vision University of Life Sciences also in mozambique in the capital maputo zinn i them a child the researcher in the African Division at healer weiss watch war welcome to you all fernando for for these fighters to take control of muslim bowed the pariah that wouldnt be possible had they not had enough Logistical Support in the province of capital gado thats. My view and thats my feeling i think step by step. All those rebels are Getting Better logistics better weaponry and so and moving more freely in the province seems they know very well all the regions they operate but heres just ticks are very important and they are getting very very good support in those terms stick why a couple dilger though is it because they want to take control of all the gas field installations there. I dont think these has. To do with the gas fields as basically 2 of these all their patterns you know potential for position between that met ethnic groups in this area and the government and also all the patterns of networks basically our own the group that were talking about you know. The onset are so not and so that theres alternate connections there and all the grievances that these groups actually tops into. Well senator the. Human International Human rights organizations have been recently accusing Government Forces of torturing suspected members of these armed groups and this could raise many questions about the general sentiment of the local population if the pattern continues. Yes it not only raises the. Feeling of distrust on the side of the communities but also. What are the communities and residents of those areas in a very strange sensitive in danger position we have not only been documenting the abuses of the Security Forces we previous and mr other me documenting abuses by the insurgents themselves and abuses by insurgents are gruesome were talking about beheading were talking about destruction of destruction of property were talking about chasing people away from their. Own region their areas of origin now what were seeing is that the community is on those reasons are running away from those abuses by the insurgents and finding themselves caught in a position where the abuser becomes their man on uniform. Which shouldnt be happening in the Security Forces on the ground cannot be operate in the same way as the insurgents they have a big asians and their 1st obligation is to protect civilians that are being targeted by this country fernando these are groups accused of acts of trustees having local villagers torching their own houses forcing people out of their own towns in the area who are they what are their affiliations and why particular starting with the northern part of mozambique. Well i can track down to arjuns one is that these are basically poor people and Unemployed People living in in this particular area sickened they have been mobilized under days law may create meaning it does mean that this is clearly a religious war or a religious. Inspired war but religion being a main conductor in order to ask people to join despotic of course of course i think also its important to emphasize poverty and the fact that these unemployed and these poor people do not see any future pore dam in a province where people keep all the time talking about the near future full of riches and full of wealth and this is one of the problems and these are as a challenge for the government and to find a ways to divert. Part of this population out of this cycle of violence. These groups stick operating in almost complete secrecy to the point where people are trying to find out whether they are affiliated with local groups known as a sham or those affiliated with the city of monotheism monotheist it with a group of cell or think groups or with a. D. F. Which has been very active in places like uganda and the democratic republic of congo yes i think theres a puzzle there because also a. D. F. Its not really clear if we have some groups in the a. D. F. Sympathizing with the Islamic State them indeed being part of the Islamic State what we see in areas that you have these islamic province of Central Africa part of the Islamic State that has always prime claimed attacks incite some pick and weve seen it over and over again and weve seen peak chairs from these attacks but its not clear how much influence the Central African province really have been will some b. Q. Know there might be sue groups in the onset i mean the use of group in the a. D. F. That have some kind of affiliation it might actually be that we are in an early state struck the organizational history of this insurgency so that to eat theres actually contradictions within the organisation id love to awfully ation but the exact amount of influence over this insurgency from for example the Islamic State is actually its hard to measure but what we know is that over and over again these that mixtape will take care responsibility for attacks inside muslim pick and they will have pictures from it but we dont 3 to put it on the scope and it might be just smallest of groups who are trade trying to. Make an opening for them you know you know local conflict based their own local grievances xina to have hundreds or thousands of people were forced out of their villages the government is now of the offensive trying to recover to areas lost to the groups and the rebels. Themselves saying that they are determined to hold ground is that a concern that were likely to see deteriorating humanitarian situation in the northern part of mozambique yes that is that is the case. Most probably will see the situation getting worse like fernando well explained at the beginning distin surgeons are becoming stronger and stronger. This month and exactly this week we are marking 4 years it is of its that if for some of us that started documenting those abuses from the beginning again and show you that they have they have increased then they have become more gruesome it started with simpler tactical decisions and then it logged into deliberate attack to 7 villages in to set an officials of the government and now what we are seeing is them these arent for example king indiscriminately killing civilians and moving them away from their village thats going to mission to remove people from the areas because that is of combat that what is the reason beyond that we dont know at this stage but the problem is these people that you are mentioned the numbers we have right now to wonder that 51 and feed and 50000 people. That have already left the desert areas and eveready sort of refugees in a become set up by the u. N. And by the government but we know for sure that there are one of them 1000000. 00 people that are still trapped in areas way money that ingroups cannot reach because this acute it and violence is too much for them to face and because in this people have been left there trapped with not help we have been speaking with some people dismiss people who are in the accommodations and just well have told us for example that some of that let it stay beyond because they did not have money for trust for what that means is that there is no way of helping them when this areas there is no presence of the state there must. Security forces that can help people to come out of their areas some of them for example have been sleeping in the bush for must because theyre scared of going back to their house and they also learn never way of arriving at the accommodations it as from them on as yes these areas open of course what they were seen as an image then a situation that is was that what we are seeing at the moment fernandez to what extent. Have issues like poverty and corruption been instrumental in the rise of armed groups like the ones operating now in capital gather or has it been many appellative or exploited by them to further expand their political ideology i think these are played a very very crucial role there is to read trying to all d the time just to fly does violence as x. Kernel important violence eventually theres some external help but i seeing the main reasons and the roots of this conflict are internal roots and poverty definitely is playing a very very Important Role so in order to address this issue you need to address the issue of poverty and develop and you know soon the government is getting to too late in is coming and arriving too late to address these issues of poverty and under development. Stake is the ethnic divide in those regions and element that played into to the advantage of these armed groups yes you know i want to also add that short all their point of when were discussing this so for me its the scary to hear these stories about Human Rights Violations on behalf of the state Security Forces because we see a pattern in all other african countries where actually people on the grown are forced to choose between the how the east and the Security Forces in order to achieve security and where you have in the scheme that use of whiteness by government Security Forces it tends to force part of the population to accommodate the jihadists and this is kind of a success received or for the immediate answer and i do think that. Politics also in the ferry in this you have some of these groups closer to the people in power all their ethnic groups feeling alienated but we shouldnt forget that some of these ideology of these militants actually plays into this you know they address this and try to address grievances they talk about unfairness and they in one sense its a kind of narrative both feet. To talk a grievance at so its a kind of a possibility to money played local grievances but not only in money plate because some of the more global activists actually believe in what theyre saying that they can act dress some of these local the conflicts by doing it so its a strange interaction and in order to address these interactions in order to stop it ok i have to address people that are also side of the access to power and you have to have Government Services that provide security on the ground to the local population and what seems to happen now is the opposite then and the government seems to be favoring the military option for the time being minute ocean never works in such scenarios were seeing the example in many many many different places do you have any concerns that this could just further perpetuate the presence of radical groups operating in those areas. The depression even at this stage is the the amount of force that is being used not only against insurgents but also against the civilians themselves and then then also questions about the level of capacity that the government has to say it is insurgents and whether they are able for example to distinguish anonymous even that is running away from them of you know that theres been a cat on money and such and we have over and over heard reports of people that have been detained because they were mistaken by sanctions and we have also seen in videos that have been listen to the expose kids where the government mistreats people that in they their custody them and kills the people that are in their custody and that in itself will create some sort of distress among the people of those it doesnt have them got because theyre no good thats a good force at this stage in some areas as an enemy so theres not difference between the actions of soldiers on the ground and the actions of the assassins. Fernanda is this an indication that these lamech state in the Central Province this is what they call themselves are now trying to expand their influence in the center part of africa. To me that adepts their strategy but it has the ever been mentioned in this program before they are the information that have been circulating and the research is not too clear about those internationals but in terms of the propaganda in terms of the Central Province he has its clear a clear objective and in terms of intelligence gathering on the field its clear that they are involvement of other forces besides mozambicans operating in fighting areas which means that there are exchange of people in the region and people coming from other regions to join this kind of. Fight. You know ordered to ina large. Islamic province in Southern Africa were trained here to look at all the different. Aspects of this particular puzzle you have. You have these my mixtape operating in western africa. Led by boko haram you have these i misstate operating in the is them part of the of the continent with with us with somalia being a battleground you have the operating in the region of these groups. Linked to each other do they believe in a hierarchy or are they franchise for a purpose now that there are different ways differences between these different f. E. D. s if you look into it im expecting best africa who is not in the union with the Islamic State in samarra they are quite resourceful and in nationally connected if you look into the slavic state in somalia theyre more marginalized theyre not that big at all and what we see as the predecessor that were speaking is saying is that maybe the situation in congo aswell is maybe not separate subtly maybe its a little bit speculative we are talking about difference 2 groups within an organization that are actually kind of concerning different argue logical states them selves the ideological stance. But what we see is that the islamic programs of Central Africa have been very active as of late when it comes to provoke combat and we see that they have been they play me a lot of attacks so it seems like theres an increased interest. To which extent this is coordinated with the Islamic State centrally we see that they produce there and met their. Central Islamic State propaganda sites so we see that kind of connection from the eightys like mix that in Central Africa but they are playing if there is some kind of direct command lines and this comes at a time when people were talking about the need for more transparency democracy social Development Programs in Central Africa then you have these armed groups operating in the area could it be a sign that what were likely to see in the near future is one of a robust military approach and all those issues have to be relegated to to the future there are a few other things that the government should ever addressed by now that to not only. Kirk seem to be willing hes conflicted but also to the covered the trial of the victim and for example one of those issues is. Again with impunity to punish those that commit abuses on the grounds it doesnt than i think the only solution that the government seems on isnt at the moment is to use force and face the insurgents with the same level of force the trouble is that in some of those areas of conflict the insurgents not the drain better than the Security Forces and whether or not the security areas very well better than the Security Forces i mean what they will do or is to use the population against the Security Forces they will manipulate and they will force the population to be on their side against the Security Forces now that is a scenario that one doesnt want to wish to see more than become soldiers facing with because once they are in a train and oxtail environment of call they will be using Excessive Force not only to fight the enemy but also to protect themselves and the trouble there is that that target might hand up being a muslim you can be that has already been a target of the insurgents so what will our people at this stage the most and the bigger government be that the should be very. That acedia is about they give for example the mothers of the abuses and make sure that they punish those that commit them you know the ground well that think they can believe game to trust both the population then they can have the population on those in that size bring the fight against insurgents financial you can defeat armed groups weve seen i feel defeated in parts of syria and iraq and also part of africa but the idea stays and the idea with general race manton and the comeback in different forms and different shapes what do you think could be the best way to tackle the rise of radical extremism in different parts of the african continent well or i think taking was a beacon and as an example. I think poverty is a bad bad predicament for all sorts of kind of things happening around the continent and for example in cup delgado and in mozambique as all countries if the government would give more privilege to Development Programs instead of reinforce Security Forces. Intelligence gathering all sorts of of sings maybe the population will be more emu to such kind of divisive issues like. Mozambique and Fire Fighting each other because thats whats going on these are despite whatever religion you you are following what you have is mozambique and fighting each other so what we should have is was and becomes. A more or leveled. Social or more levels society in order to avoid such differences between and among death fernando lim a stick yall hansen to another much other thank you very much indeed. Thank you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website dot com for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com for was last a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter out hundreds a jane side story for me how about on the entire team here by phone oh. Crime that shook or people get killed on one occasion you know as bloody a massacre as this was on the tracks a lot of reporting it was just a good drumbeat who did it who did it who did it the hasty conviction that led to the worlds longest held the throw prisoner and his sisters 47 year long battle to save him from execution witness to come out of japans death row on a. It was a war that united egypt and syria had against israel but in the heat of the battle that different agendas soon became apparent i suppose the green was to avenge the defeat of my 67 when president sadat came to power he told us just give me 10 centimeters of land in the east the 2nd of a 3 part series is really population were told that the troops were on the west bank of the su is connex poems the 2nd week of the war in october on aljazeera. Understand the differences and similarities of cultures across the wound so no matter when you go home will be the news and Current Affairs that matter to you. This is aljazeera. Hello there im home a good scene and this is the aljazeera news hour live from doha coming up for you in the next 60 minutes 2 men a quite safe to bank a vixen its and one acquits its over kenyas westgate Shopping Mall attack that left almost 70 people dead