Transcripts For ALJAZ Inside Story 20240712

Was on it in stockholm the prize is seen as especially significant this year as the world grapples with the coronavirus pandemic. Us President Donald Trump has briefly left the hospital way hes been treated for coronavirus he did a drive by for hundreds of his supporters gathered outside the Walter Reed Military Medical Center once a new doctor the hospital called it a standing and irresponsible. Medics revealed oxygen levels dropped briefly on both friday and saturday. Thank you general young stoltenberg is an encore away hes trying to ease tension between turkey and greece the 2 nato Member States have been told of a maritime borders in the mediterranean sea. Today we discussed the tensions in the Eastern Mediterranean we have now established a military de confliction mechanism to did use the risks of instance and accidents in the region this includes a commitment to use a secure hotline that has been set up between greece and turkey vailable 247. The mechanism was achieved through the constructive engagement over turkey and greece at nato headquarters i want this and pay tribute to the to both allies for the efforts and we stand ready to develop it further. Down opposition supporters are protesting against early results in sundays parliamentary election 3 progovernment parties is set to take 107 out of 120 seats. Those are your headlines so theyre coming up next. Can you fight a pandemic without rolling back freedom is government surveillance necessary to stop the spread in short is the coronavirus a threat to democracy this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program. The coronavirus pandemic is causing a worldwide crisis for democracy thats the conclusion of Freedom House the us based Research Group its annual survey identifies 80 nations where democracy or human rights have been curtailed since the virus emerged at the end of last year they are highlighted in red grey areas represent countries largely unchanged Freedom House says the rights abuses werent only reported in countries with authoritarian regimes but others rated as being free the Freedom House survey focuses on 5 main areas it says have weakened during the pandemic they are checks against abuses of power protection of vulnerable groups Government Transparency Media Freedom and Credible Elections or leaders are accused of failing to be transparent about the impact of the coronavirus prompting public distrust and allowing misinformation to spread. Citizens face limits on free speech and government abuses of power are rising says the survey adding that pandemic restrictions disproportionately affect marginalized communities and minority groups the disease has disrupted elections and some governments have used that to their advantage and looking ahead the imposition of new laws may be blamed on the pandemic but they cant be easily reversed so the survey says the crisis in democracy is likely to continue long after the coronavirus is under control. All right lets bring in our guests in new york amy slip of wits is Research Manager at Freedom House and coauthor of the report democracy under lockdown in new delhi Kavita Krishnan is secretary of the all India Progressive Womens Association and author of fearless freedom and in kiev eve our dollar is Senior Policy Adviser at Norwegian Helsinki Committee welcome to the program amy let me start with you this decline in democracy around the world that is being highlighted in your reporting this is something that started happening long before the code in 1000 pandemic correct thats right Freedom House also produces an annual publication called freedom in the world and it looks at every country and its Political Rights and Civil Liberties so the way it has found is that over the past 14 years global trade ads have been into a kind of code that 19 is an exacerbation of this trend conveyed to report sites specifically the Indian Government as a government that is scapegoating marginalized groups the report talks about how indias muslims were labeled as super spreaders of covert 19 and subjected to a hate campaign how bad is the situation there. Its been very bad and joe just as any said it is not something that is unique to the covert 19 endemic its been happening at the since 2014 when to be have had a far right in the in the sr regime and it was reelected in 2019 headed by not in the movie so this is a regime that yes used 1000 weaponized with 19 to skip cool to a muslim minorities and claim that they have a super spread and this was done but the head of a absolutely captive media Electronic Media Television Media and so on but i think the beyond that theres also other things that are happening during the and which are also disproportionately affecting muslims but also dissenting voices and to suit activists just before the pandemic hit that was the massive Historic Movement that the bullet noticed in india against it discriminate 3 anti muslim citizenship that sought to make muslims 2nd class citizens and in. This movement you know when the demick hit naturally the movement had to take it back seat to be out in large numbers in the streets and so you had the you have had the government then subsequently cracking down on activists of that movement disproportionately muslims but not only muslims and arresting them and claiming that their their activism was something that was out to it was a conspiracy to create is right and so they are playing being blamed for the anti museum by lims the daily with the student on attempts with the 2. If are whats the level of concern currently in europe because in hungary Prime Minister viktor orban passed an act that gave him absolute powers to rule by decree theres also concerns about democratic backsliding in poland as well right. Yeah i mean as samy mentioned in the beginning this trend isnt something that started with with the pandemic of course but its something that has probably made it worse and i think the. Europeans who follow the democracy situation and respect for human rights in European Countries and in the larger your ration region are concerned that once the pandemic of this is over well be at a much worse point d than we were when it started so i think that you know when when when dependent is over clearly the world will go back and see what was our preparedness really like in terms of Public Health and all these things that are very important but i think at that point we also need to stop and say where were we human rights wise when this began and are we now in a place that is much much worse and what if so what were going to do to put things back the way they were again hopefully better in time i mean one of the more interesting things in the report is it doesnt just talk about countries where authorial authoritarianism is on the rise you also cite some examples of countries like tunisia and georgia and these are countries that are struggling democracies that have been widely commended for taking health care measures during this pandemic without abusing freedoms are you hopeful that we could see more of that going forward. Yes there is there is some hope that the country doesnt have to be an established democracy to be able to tackle the pandemic in a transparent clear and not just for a minute manner there have been a lot of cases where journalists have really created a slave and reporting on government m. P. s says protests in support of democratic reform have persisted despite a. Restrictions so there is room for hope there. Last month the press club of india issued a statement expressing concern that the government in india was criminalizing dissent from your Vantage Point now has this gotten worse during the pandemic it has gotten immensely worse and i also want to say that it has not gotten worse because the government wanted to tackle that and its much worse than that because one of the basic things that many institutions including that of you that you spoke about was that you should be trying to depopulate your right but aus as a government the movie to shimon india which took beings to try and arrest people during the bendemeer a vest activists during the bend make including one pregnant young woman but also several other Young Students and older activists as well and put them in jail said the stay so they have invested in delhi alone some 20 activists who are leading activists of the un that witch hunt is still on so you know im absolutely in a theme and with this and the other thing i want to say is that there are also testing journalists for instance there is one Young Journalist a very good journalist. Who is known for his reporting on about the lives of indias oppressed costs and he is somebody who has been arrested by the but these men the government of state called the but the and hes been in jail for now a month and col. Formal climate all except for a tweet that was critical of the gov. The other thing i want to quickly highlight is that you may be aware that theres a Huge Movement building up in india against it being a fun moment of an oppressed cost in with the provision of peace. There the well you know what the British Government declared the whole village to be containment in order to prevent opposition leaders from being able to visit the beach family and from being a from preventing people from oppressed costume protesting and some has been protesting but they have allowed dominant cost people to hold large it immediately gatherings against the best however they have also among the people of vested and also some leading young feminist activists of india who are also in a vested under the law under which you can get bail and you can remain in jail endlessly for years on some absolute shot up till your trial stocks and the trial may not stock to cycle 78. 00 thats a local of the us. If our Health Measures taken by governments around the world during this pandemic mean that populations are surveilled in a way they had not been before that theres an increasing amount of surveillance of populations around the world whether these are done by apps that are used to Contact Trace or whether its just Officials Health officials government officials going house to house in Different Countries checking populations how worrying is it for you that these measures could potentially be abused. Well this. Pandemic has led to discussions on this even in establish democracy is like norway where people are concerned about the amount of personal data theyre sharing through apps that are intended of course to do good to help curb the spread of the virus. Im probably more concerned about the way that this can be used in the regimes. Very far east in the in your a chicago countryside kazakhstan and the g. P. S. Down but also in more you know emerging. Authoritarian directions you know yet like you mentioned hungary and poland at the outset because i think if you look more the traditional torah tarion regimes. Youll see that they they of course dont really feel like they need a reason. To put the place a ban on freedom of assembly for example but even these countries do have. They do think about d the p. R. Effect to a certain extent so when they can point to Something Like the coronavirus and say we are not doing this. Some of us or a tarion measure were doing it to protect the population south then thats just all d the better for them and the same tactic im sure will be gladly used by countries that are moving in a more authoritarian direction and where democracy is at stake in me let me ask you to expand a little bit on what youve are saying because you know were looking at the increase of the surveillance state but also on the flip side of that let me ask you about the proper use of that type of data i mean there is general agreement consensus that its a good thing when governments Leverage Technology to control the virus through things like Contact Tracing it enables them to give more effective treatment to the population how are you able to strike the balance between utilizing that data and that technology properly and then its opposite which is a complete surveillance state. Its a difficult balance to strike and there are have also been studies showing that using this type of technology might not necessarily be effective but if it is its really important to clearly state where data is going to make sure its firewalled against other uses by different authorities and agencies in the government. So basically making sure the Data Protection is very strong and can be misused and shoring met the data is deleted after a certain period as well given to this rolling back of symbol Civil Liberties that were seeing i mean this is not just happening in dictatorships this is happening in democracies as well in different parts of the world correct. I think that you know the indian example is a case in point where i think the world is still to be reassured that india has this been democracy because it holds elections but i think just as a commentator in the Time Magazine this and commented on guest Prime Minister saying that the test of a democracy is not treat those who looked at far the victor but those who did not how does it treat those who did not or for the Winning Party and so i think that in india right now youre having is regime that is. Trying to eliminate all kinds of critical voices it doesnt and that this doesnt just cool for indias opposition oxys political opposition parties it goes for small groups most far left it goes for intellectuals on campuses it goes for students anybody who is seen as a potential you know somebody who can articulate opinion against the government effectively that person including journalists are seen as a threat and also in the vehicle with 19 the government to stop missing data we just happened in Parliament Session where the government is saying we dont have data on how many michael workers died because suddenly you know a declared lockdown where michael welcome home we dont have data on how many doctors nurses sanitation workers died during that and we dont have data on any of these things but we have 8 and 11 lack the job sheet police jaci against a small bunch of students and intellectuals who work will be eased during a riot that in a not and now theyre being blamed for that trot for that docketed violence against mr so this tells you where the governments priorities are i think that we need to look a little more kills you all of us need to. Look a little more closely at the good news that. You know democracies and countries we need to look beyond regular elections and so on and not close the window on not to confuse speech and sleep the freedom to protest is you know being allowed on oct i mean is there anything that particularly surprised you during the researching of this report. I wouldnt say there were that many surprises i think just tracking what has been happening it was pretty clear that the pandemic has really exacerbated the decline into mock recy one thing that really interested me though was some of these restrictions we found in the media were taking place when journalists were attempting to report on discriminatory enforcement of lockdowns for example or treatment of migrants or Asylum Seekers under lockdown really trying to stifle forms of accountability in the face of government and he says even our weve seen more and more the issue of covert 19 and the pandemic become politicized in the United States this is a country thats considered a beacon of democracy if the situation is as bad as it is there what does that mean for the rest of the world. Absolutely. You know we have the big demonstrations government protests happening though in belarus in the neighboring country of ukraine where i am at the moment and partially started because of anger at the way the authorities were handling the covert 1000 situation. So i think. Its hard to imagine it become quite. Extreme as political as polarized perhaps as it is and the United States but we see in many countries including in norway there are stark you know differences in how people how the different parties or political groups see how this should be be managed and further east im sure there are definitely. Differences in opinion on where human rights fit into all of this whether human rights should be set aside in such a situation so whether. Whether we must. Keep making sure that they are respected even. That instead the world has been and over the past year. You know youve spoken a lot about marginalized communities vulnerable groups lets talk about one of the most vulnerable populations in the world right now refugees how will all this impact them because theyve been so stigmatized the past several years by so many governments and now in this reporting from Freedom House it states that many countries are stigmatizing the further how dire is the situation for refugees right now. I think its an extremely dire situation and just using one instance from my maid of the day he can get a few g. s who are stateless persons in myanmar and who then see refuge in neighboring countries including india in india the ruling in the sick in the spotty makes an easy scapegoat of them it is used dehumanizing language like dumb mites and so on for really get a few g. s as well as for people of. Muslim you know muslim people who speak bengali who they claim upon let these she infiltrate to you know for if you g. s they use the word infiltrate. And dont mites and so on so this kind of dumas in language has been going on for a while but now what happens is that it is possible to medicalize this whole stigmatization and say that oh you know they are a source of disease they have a source of vitus they have a source of. You know script spreading off a disease and so on and so you know this added layer of stigmatization of g. s and of denial of care where the government says oh we have only so much help to give and so you cant expect us to care for foreigners you cant expect us to provide care to foreigners and so on so this kind of thing we are seeing this kind of thing happening in many countries and certainly the situation of refugees you know including in south asia is a great concern they make of it i just mentioned Rohingya Refugees the ring of course are one of the worlds most persecuted minorities now thats one thing when youre talking about refugees in places like bangladesh or india or other countries but your reporting also talks about the adverse effects that the pandemic has had as far as not allowing you know International Bodies to try and stop the abuse at the rink are facing in me and more as well correct. Thats correct there are a profound that well the International Attention here is really turns to you and asking the pandemic a lot of abusive abuses have been able to take place while i stateful players are really looking away so in western iraq my at for example. Security services are able to really step up their abuse of rohingya and and escape attention as the world is focused on Public Health matters for want to ask you to pick up on something that could have been talking about which is. Journalists being gone after in Different Countries do you expect that the situation for journalists is going to worsen around the world right now i think that their situation can quickly become more difficult. Because that goes with the more authoritarian country becomes. The quick the people on the frontline are often the journalists and theyre the ones who often feel the effects of it before anyone else does. So im hoping that once the pandemic is over i think that indexes for example like Freedom House are doing where they are particularly looking at the situation for freedom of the media and journalists are very. I dont know just going to be important because we will be able to go back and see you know to what to what degree has the situation become worse and. Before and after the pandemic and the same goes really for another area which is that the various. Committees in the u. N. Who are now suffering under a lack of funding for their reviews they will also be very important in establishing to what extent has the situation for for example journalists gotten worse in the course of the pandemic where you can go back and you can look at the previous reporting period which countries have. Had particularly bad pressure against the media against independent media which countries have you know and the higher numbers of the arrests of journalists d and others and see whether this actually has gotten worse or north amy let me go to you we only have a couple of minutes left your report says that what is happening in sri lanka currently is really illustrative of Global Trends what exactly has been going on there. Yeah so entry longer there rajapakse says have really been able to intensify their our territory an agenda over the past few months theyve been doing things like controlling independent reporting on state feeling and fever of all speech but what really illustrates this is the calling of early elections which were actually had to be postponed and jerricho then one team so this left the National Legislator out of session beyond the constitutional deadline allowing the executive to kind of rule with out this over say and much fewer checks on the power and that the same time as we mentioned muslims have been suffering from very intense keep going within the country and. They have been labeled as super spatters that the media has singled out cases where muslims contracted the virus so that there are really a bunch of aspects in she locked at that kind of illustrates some of those issues that we highlight including abuse of power. Restrictions against marginalized communities stifling of the press and elections that have been held with some kind of undermining of their credibility all right weve run out of time so were going to have to leave it there thanks so much to all our guests aimees the poets can read to krishnan and eve our dolly and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story for me Mohammed Abdul and the whole team by going to. Well im not happy with it when the president of the United States speaks out the rest of the world takes notice. Aggressive negotiation on trade deals. Unparalleled military might International Agreements hanging by a thread will the next u. S. Foreign policy put america 1st. Or be a Leading Light for the world at large. Sam in the key issues of the us elections on aljazeera. Next cone that a lot of chess. After years behind bars he has to be strategic to stay out of prison with these friend and chess master hes planning his next move to give back to society and shed the gate that saved his life discovering new filmmaking talent from around the globe if you find a lot since american chess private lessons on the i was even. Cut through the noise figure about where theyre going into hours and listen journalists the fact that there are 5 ways elvis or one of the problems that theyre just really are a lot of people of color who are making a good off print run right political that affect the political worth of monday green earth that can earn or were they able to buy the listening post monitors and in tougher its the media on aljazeera. If you want to help save the world. News and euro. Hello again im peter dobby here in doha your top stories from aljazeera azerbaijan and armenia are accusing each other of targeting civilians in their conflict over the disputed region of nagorno cut about both sides are reporting casualties as the fighting moves into its 2nd week now as opposed to have us cities were attacked after the main city in the going to cut our stepanek yet came under sustained bombardment and smith is keeping track of the latest developments from glorious inside armenia the bombardment of the panic at started again on monday after a heavy day