Win it by lives the mob for the large of the American People failed to do his job on top dont fall asleep in jail for nothing ok he still doesnt have a place to stand this christmas is one of the Vice President ial t. V. Debates on aljazeera. I have semiotic a welcome to the limited edition sirius the stream it in 1000 nations General Assembly we are teaming up this week United Nations to bring you some of the biggest issues in the world right now these are conversations we are not intending to have by ourselves so we are on t. V. We are on instagram we are on huge but you know what today you can just jump into the Comment Section and you too can be part of every conversation this week so today we are looking at misinformation around 90. Welcome to the guests i have to say hello to cracker and then come back and tell everybody who she is do you any instruction take away. My family unquote and im the u. S. Director of fast draw for a nonprofit that helps people tackle the challenges of misinformation so im pretty excited about this conversation you Tatiana Heidi tell everybody who you are. Sure im heidi larsen and i am a professor of anthropology at the London School of hygiene and tropical medicine but i lead something called the Vaccine Confidence project and were trying to build confidence around exam but also trying to understand why people dont have confidence. I always call in david but officially hes still fit dr David Nabarro dave attell or heard by your play a critical to this conversation our family 1st of all it is lovely to be with you again knowing david as you say ive been working as a Public Health doctor a lot of us more than 40 and im really interested in helping people handle really complex challenges right now im working with the World Health Organization as envoy on 90 david im just wondering whats the worst thing that you seen in terms of misinformation it let me see some things that our Online Community is sharing at the moment so we said were looking at some of the phipps the lies misinformation around 19 months with a mass dont help stop infection 19 is no worse than flip a coin of ice tests cause brain damage and then underneath somebody jumped in and said could a virus is a project made by bill gates and then another coming to says very true and above they can all fake and that absolutely right and then one more day because im just interested about how you actually deal with this because underneath the comment somebody said well yet the absolute are fake and then one war. This is from 2 eyes john the 161 sit down your an outer space cadet so i think what they actually meant was youre padded misinform david how do you deal with this u. S. Special envoy for the coronavirus 19 helping the well get it right and then the sins of us. This is a huge huge horrible disease outbreak ive never seen anything like it in my life and the trouble is its just beginning and were going to see more people with this disease and more people will die in the gulf i suspect at least 5000 Health Workers of. Nearly a 1000000 people have died as a result of this virus its horrible and you see i dont think many people find it is easy to believe sometimes it seems worse than some abstraction and ziad that everybody is trying to make sense of it or lot of people the most immediate thing to do is to find someone to blame on and you just saw this to get to as being the most incredible philanthropists for Global Health is to is accused of being responsible for it and ive seen of course tape being made of our masks actually make you worse all. The tests actually make you sick if you use a vaccine its going to aid in india into some computer chip in and i think thats because people actually are stuck after they explain something you said taro and ing to humanity and i like to feel that over time you get used to it but we are dealing with something very new the lot of uncertainties and i think itll be quite rocky for the next few months i just hope that this kind of misinformation doesnt cause too many people to get sick and die and and that does worry me and i have to keep saying to everybody even if you get the kind of aid and you recover there are an awful lot of people are actually not feeling well for a very long time afterwards this is not trivial this is a really serious illness even for the virus hey this isnt the 1st time that youve been on the strain talking about misinformation but we havent taught that single serious as a Global Pandemic before what makes this situation different doesnt make the situation different. Yeah i mean absolutely if i mean i think we was an election misinformation before and for the last 4 years thats been the kind of misinformation weve been talking about different elections and struggled with this but often people say to me oh thats just politicians they always lie but actually now what were seeing is a this is affecting the whole planet at the same time and what were seeing is Health Misinformation is really damaging and leads to real world harm and so i think the good thing if theres a tiny Silver Lining in all of this is that we see more people wake up to the damaging aspects of misinformation but ive never been ive been working in this space for 10 years ive never seen one story where youd see rumors crossing border to border but to border in seconds and seeing the same room and appear mean just the scale of the kind of problems that where were working with right now its nothing like ive seen. In 10 years. Agile can be good communicators were trying to get great information over to the public there was one example you brought of a rumor which is a gentleman with an irish accent talking of what was going to happen to new york down and as i listen to this i thought my friends told me this back in march and i was thinking this cant possibly be true but this was a rumor that was going all over the world have a listen to this isnt it. I know it was a lot of videos and messages going around on facebook in relation to lockdown and the army dissing the guards and so forth will take what im going to tell you i was gospel next to my best friend who was in the region today. He was for your of her and he was in a meeting with regard to she accommodate a c. And your defense forces. To hate to see porches or to be couriers from them on the basis start it was cheaper than lease and them as they wanted for 3 to 6 months because they think thats how long this will take. So the question i recently had was my friends friend is in the army and they have told this joke thought i had that i had to and i just thought. But then what is the worst that can happen is that you know 1st david i know you want to jump in. Yet so just to let everybody know when you would see a whats that message that starts with my sister knows my brother works for everybody should be very concerned about one of the the easiest kind of tactics that we see all the time but the problem is its very difficult to debunk if the idea is my brother was in a secret government meeting you know theres this idea of well you know al jazeera can debunk it because they wouldnt have been in that secret meeting and so thats why this this kind of content gets shared so widely because we as humans whether were trying to share a spoiler for a t. V. Show what i know something you dont thats why this stuff resonates and as you say back in march ill put my hand up i shared something along these lines of living alone at my moms terrible. Job but he said theres so much power as evidence that a lockdown in new york and then of course in that area where couples like this is this is why were here this is a human problem it doesnt matter how educated you are how much we didnt have the training you had in a pandemic our lives have been turned upside down and as david said were looking for answers and unfortunately what that message is provide that simplistic narrative that makes us is soothing to us as as humans we want those explanations we dont want confusion and the kind of complexity that genesis brings us we want simplicity. David is making notes what are you running down your arm just a bit magnetic i just wrote down if only we knew all they arent says our job would be so much easier. To saying to people i dont know i dont know here how long you immunity after being infected with a virus i dont know how long its going to take a vaccine to come and whether that vaccine is going to be thoroughly effective and thats what makes it difficult for people if the socalled experts dont know who does and then that nagging fear builds up that somebody somewhere is doing something terrible to sort that out im just saying is i dont think we should be terribly surprised but i agree we are in clara knew that they dont for many the result is some really bad things happen people play around drinking bleach or taking the wrong polls and thats what weve really got to work hard to avoid. Heidi has very late i will know it is your kids yet it gets hot is it this is what even during the people trying to help people with what is share what is false what are they able to tell us about your. Well. Its interesting when david was saying well both claire and david its its the uncertainty i mean or are we look at what we call triggers like whats the piece of information whats the Fertile Ground that makes it spread and what are the impacts well in the context of coded like claire we have never seen anything like we are now particularly in the sense that these. Rumors and misinformation are jumping into theyre joining up with all kinds of different groups that they were interacting with before amplifying in ways and as as david said we dont have the answer so you know i you can i mean for people where he now figures that social Media Companies to say you know clean up the Bad Information well you know we dont even have some in this with this brand new virus with all these aspects that we do have some information and we should be clear about that i think a lot of the inconsistency and guidance i think some of the uncertainty there are things where we can be more helpful in consistency but also in in having empathy with people i mean i think we should reach it we should be saying this is a really complicated difficult time we empathize which here we are and were kind of losing terse by giving a lot of restrictions and we need to listen more the publics and i know its complicated but thats where as the approaches that clarity mentioned like my brother said that some kind of it feels personal it feels like theyre just like me you know im in that in that book and its about doubting and uncertainty not to make it more complicated by i think in these times theres something tangible we can and we know people need a flu vaccine this season. More than ever so lets go with something that people now that we feel confident we have the information to start to build some trust around some tangible things people can do people have lost a lot of time on basic childhood vaccines and all kinds of other basic health needs that they werent able to get taken care of if we want to Start Building people stressed before for instance we get a covert vaccine you know theyre a little opportunities for we can make people feel like we actually care about them. And our interest reprimanding them for the misinformation which actually we sort of understand its a different story for the as they call them the bad actors who are purposely trying to disrupt thats a different story but i think we need to really try to understand and empathize with the people who are genuinely genuinely. You know uncertain. Let me bring he have the Vaccine Confidence put yet this is what heidi is working on so that if youre not sure and you feel the eat dont want to ask a question to somebody it went to same day and tweet us here at the street but you can find out yourself about or if the different details about vaccines and the Vaccine Confidence start or you can go there she ventured a guess is a regular viewer of the strain hes based in uganda hes a student and hes having trouble working out facts from fiction when it comes to covered 19 here yes. In your kind of for example of a 70 percent of our population nukes and as one of them our primary source of information is social media sites Facebook Instagram and so on and so forth so all how can we not watch them permission is correct information how do we know that this is the right information to believe and since these christmas social media dont dont read flag for us as immediately how can nor resources to trust when i make a comment on pleas for make haste on it. First of all jobs are actually great to hear i do speak just a few minutes ago and really focus on empathy and trust i think matters and tissue branch i want to say the following i promise you that material that appears on the website of the World Health Organization has been reviewed very carefully by the worlds top scientists and its the very best that they can offer in terms of truth and also in terms of absolute validity i totally get what youre saying but this is our service to you we can work only for one thing and that is for the wellbeing of every human being in our. Care i want to bring you in here because theres a lot on social media its achievements made a really good point as a lot out there and it can be helpful and it can also be problematic and listen are some examples im just going to a little bit of show and tell i will show the pictures on my laptop you can talk us with how we know how we know its actually is that not so we can give alf us some practical examples about what the will to do lets not with this one are you good and scotty get ready to let them shut down your city ready to let them lock you up in your house well to have it injects you with poisons im scared just reading that out. And thats a deliberate tactic bad actors as heidi said one of us to be scared because when were scared and we have heightened emotions were less likely to let the critical part of our brains kick in and so unfortunately a lot of the kind of conversation were now seeing about a potential vaccine isnt about misinformation to the vaccination say what kind of society do you want to live in and so we have to be very aware of people basically trying to make us frightened because that leads us nowhere this is an example one of the biggest challenge we have is genuine imagery use out of context so here we actually have a big need for 2016 in cleveland so unless rid no head for a moment so they can do the compare and contrast ok. I get that which herman or a comparison chart of neck cancer we see an image that saying nice weather has brought people out of the march to encode at 19 i think this was back in may and it was about shaving people to say you shouldnt be congregating but actually look this is an image from 2016 when the camel is one championship and this is the biggest i mean this isnt difficult to put together its a genuine image but again if you want to shame people if you want to look at people you know not wearing their masks this does what in these do which is to get people in their camps and to get angry the only thing id say is people need to be so careful with seeing so many financial stands at the moment which is people trying to sell that is based on people being frightened so be really wary about anybody basically saying this and 39. 00 pounds is going to solve something for you theyve used the n. H. S. Logo the National Health service logo from the u. K. Which is a way of the providing credibility its a trick so you know its an n. H. S. Sponsored think anybody that uses photoshop can create this again people just have to think consummate why would somebody be sharing this well this is about making money so theres many many of them apparently simple yeah so what youre saying hey 28 down to practically looking at what youre saying and also some common sense just really examine it a little bit will make all. Us citizen journalists and examine it heidi i am just thinking about vaccines and there is a history of people not trusting vaccines why do you think that is because thats the next step where we are now is take saying well im not going to take the vaccine that testing it so quickly it cant possibly be safe in the in the days present trump is talking about having a vaccine ready by october so in a couple of weeks time well. First the one thing weve learned in any Vaccination Campaign dont launch a new vaccine in election period. I mean. We have a history of that being a problem in Different Countries during baxi year saga in the philippines was a new that scene that launched during a Political Campaign and. It was one example but there are multiple ones where we say try to do to the extent you can separate politics index scenes but particularly elections but this is one that we have not interrupt a bull unfortunately in the u. S. But i dont think i mean the risk is you dont want to undermine a vaccine the Silver Lining is all of a sudden President Trump seems quite do c. S. To get sex scenes weve come a long way because he was not too keen on vaccines a while ago so if we try to spin something out of it actually hes risking losing some of the constituency is following him because he was against specs and now hes for that scenes but. At any rate i do think that overall you just published a big paper in the lancet on following Global Trends index in confidence weve been collecting data for the last 5 years 250000 people around the world and looking at how it changes as as claire says this stuff travels across a across the world in means than in. Different ways and looking at how it travels the good news is overall in the last 5 years there has been a slightly positive trend not everywhere but there have there has been a positive trend but i think its because i do there started to be a lot more attention and theres been more of an effort but not in situations of any kind of insecurity or conflict there the confidence has gone down there are lots of questions on you chief or if you guessed i would say this one facility heidi a student says hi yes then are we going to be forced into having a vaccine im reading about the holidays are trying to make one how safe are we going to be if there is a vaccine heidi you feel comfortable taking that on. Sure that was one of the biggest things that is in 2009 around the h one n one pandemic everybody thought it was too quick too soon and thats a more typical annual vaccine that was just a new strain i think in this case what is not in the news we hear a lot about its faster were going to get there its going to be speedy but were not hearing a lot about why its faster its faster because we have a funding mechanism seppi that we didnt have for a ball and its because of that that was ready to quickly find the back scenes we have a lot of these vaccines for coated are being made and different whats not like were short changing and old that scene process that took 18 months to multiple years so there are things that are making this possible what the good news is that in the u. S. A group of of in many many fractures effects in got together and said we will not be pushed to make these specs since quicker than we believe them to be safe and effective. There is so much going on and david i slowly smiling as heidi was talking about technology in the progress were making with vaccines joe and size this on egypt which is pretty a its been reflected by a lot of other people commenting as well thanks john we dont know who to believe anymore the scientists change their minds back and forth the president s told semites back and forth on the c. D. C. s some to control it. Change their mind back and forth so who do we believe anymore that both the are saying about scientists is they have discipline and addition plain is if you find youre not right when youve done your experiment or study you tell the world that youve had to change your position on something and so the reason why scientists do from time to turn change their minds is because they find out new things and that forces them to do so remember this is a new virus but ill just say one last but in if a scientist does change or his mind i think the change is right that the scientists should be asked by members of the public 2 weeks in the shift if they can explain it clearly and well then its worth believing them if on the other hand you get the feeling when you hear them the day just trying to pull a little of your eyes then questions should be arsed science article is about discovering and discovering means that from time to time we do have to change what we think about things. I want to show she some institutions has been an information heavy show and a really important one thank you very much yes the africa c. D. C. Have a room with a tracking report you can see that a lot sites and all our twitter feeds as well and theyre helping to push back in towns a rumor so that going around the african continent i think its really important that you visit verified share has verified dot com that is the u. S. And that is the w. H. O. Getting together and say come here for great information come here to find out about. Add also is very engaging very entertaining at all because they dont you get you boss and then of course is what heidis been talking about the Vaccine Confidence door or goes against the getting the particular if youre nervous to find out about vaccines weenies and how it that he said we already had 25 ratings and you used to. Thank you catching that you heidi thank you david i say that was my show used to show the truth thanking the chief executive the competition as well see you next time stream and it continues the very same everybody. Corruption it is the invisible behind a wall of silence. Corruption is not something to be told that. Your country. Lets destroy this wall. In 2020 the free space of what encourages the heroes who are fighting against corruption this helps our communities to save the resources that we need in order to address the burning problems that affect us all. Shine a light on your Anti Corruption here. Nominate now. A face can tell a story without uttering a single word the unconventionality of life is what inspires us. Witness documentaries on out is the era of water an essential resource for all humankind across europe pressure to recognise water as a human right and put its management back into public hands is increasing i think that the European Commission would be very very good at chambers water privatization and anybody else the only fields. Those people who see every 2 years something to invest a profit of a 1. 00 up to the last drop on al jazeera. Org. This is aljazeera. Hello im about this and this is the news hour live from doha coming up in the next 60 minutes tens of thousands of refugees in limbo every year but the European Union now says it has a plan to reform the walls and find them homes. But i suppose a gathering again in bellows after president Alexander Lukashenko is born in during an unannounced ceremony. Poisoned russian Opposition Leader lexan of ali is released from a german hospital and says