Trying to forge a new beginning in mali after months of protests and a military takeover and interim leaders made a return to civilian rule but will mali as accept their new leader will be no rangelands gets International Support this is inside story. Hello there welcome to the program im how he had seen the people of mali have had a challenging few months their military has been in paris since august after forcing the resignation of president Abraham Boubacar kater now as the nation marks its 60th Independence Day those behind the coup have named interim leaders to oversee the return to civilian rule former defense minister bondo has been named president s ols the Transitional Governments he was appointed by a group of 17 people chosen by the military giunta and the leader of last months military coup colonel. Will be his Vice President. The message to the molly and people is a message of sacred union around mali and i asked them to support the armed forces of defense and security this is the opportunity for me today to congratulate and encourage them for all their efforts to bring security and peace to mali and i also urge the modern people to support a Partner Forces while mollies opposition says it was not involved in the appointment of the interim leaders and there been mixed reactions on the ground of the capital bamako was what. I wouldve liked best to choose a politician because mali has been a democracy for almost 25 years i think there are major actors who have the vision who have the experience and who really have their got to lead this transition their personalities their personalities were list divisive and i think he is one of the least divisive personalities in the country but really this situation can only be resolved through a national weakening devil it will not be the president alone but all the 1000000 political civil and military actors to bring the transition to a successful conclusions. Im very happy that its purely a political hes also a career soldier several times chief of staff and hes held high positions in the army the fact that hes studied in russia opens the way to russia too well nicholas heart has been following the developments from the senegalese capital dhaka. During a military parade celebrating mollies independence the leader of the joint colonel see me going to address the crowd saying its a new beginning the return of the state and the end of corruption a new president has been announced the International Community wanted to see a civilian well it is a retired colonel seamer defense minister under him or her kate. And that has been announced in the recent into office on friday the giunta are not leaving power though the Vice President has been nominated and its going to himself will be in charge of security and defense will they have to succeed where the former government of kheta has failed which is to bring back peace in the center in the north of the country where groups such as al qaeda affiliates among subtly someone with the means and the some extent in the greater sahara have been launching attacks and theres been an uptick of violence especially in the Center Region of mup t. V. Thats one of their challenges but theres others half of the population is dependent on humanitarian aid it is the most expensive u. N. Operation in the country a 1000000000. 00 a year and 14000. 00 u. N. Soldiers adding to the 4000. 00 french soldiers that are on the ground in some of the critics say is because of the presence of the heavy presence of these actors that there hasnt been enough investment in in Good Governance and in the states being present in the north in the center so thats the challenge ahead no new response from the echo osce or france the former colonial power in terms of the announcement of these new leadership but clearly theres a lot of work ahead for a semi going and the new president bind out. Well lets take a look at how things have unfolded in mali the protests against them presidency. Began in early june many accuse him of corruption economic mismanagement and into space it says victory in the 2018 elections nearly a month later several protesters were killed during a crack turn by Security Forces then as the protests continue its military leaders took power and briefly detained kater on august 18th forcing him to resign the International Community condemned the coup fear and political instability regional un and French Forces have been in mali fighting against on groups where the coup leaders are now under pressure to hand over power to civilians but theyve said now this transition will last at least 18 months. It well lets bring in our guests from acro were joined by chukwuemeka is the executive director of the west African Network for peace building joining us from copenhagen professor kwesi and needing a visiting researcher at the Danish Institute of International Studies and the its a director of research at Kofi Annan International peacekeeping Training Center in ghana and finally from paris were joined by van so rouge youre a journalist and writer focusing on west africa and a lecture at the seals poor university gentlemen a warm welcome to all of you let me start with you chukwuemeka in occur weve seen a lot of to ing and fro ing a coup detat various leaders coming in and its but what are the mali and people want to do every day mali and wants to govern their country. I think if you look out the contrary if passed through a lot of political stability mainly 1st of all because of the nature and character of the history of East Independence and especially true the process of simulation on the other french governments during the colonial era but also more importantly the around many on covance basis in in mali which also and see to the kind of the security space united moments so Little Wonder why you. Issues around security challenges bile and extremism in issues around Poverty Issues are around but governance lack of transparency and elektra process these and all the or that issues that can be as a result of truck clashes between what the my life really want and what they get it from different governments and so given that situation q could make i would you say that mali and especially with an eye on the the long lasting insecurity and security challenges would you say the general population is actually quite happy with a coup detat on a military leadership. I think it cannot be absolutes some sections of the Society Might be happy but all of us will not especially those who are progressive because they understand implication of the good its are they also on the sun that idea of the big there will still institutionalize democratic governance and up and dig them but however its also as a result of the where and mine i would be never to manage the issues of a few little. Enforcement of peace can only be a temporary measure the the israelis issue an offer conciliation and recovery mechanisms have not been where theyve been in in mind and that is why after even the 2012. Week exactly we have today and you know that form is also that when you do not also offended us to the extent that it becomes a detriment to all those who want. This is the result you get ok lets get your view in a professor in the ng what do you say every day molly ends wont because weve had these repeated could say as a military takeover leads or is a lexus and then theyre protesting against them where does the future lie for molly and sister any kind of leadership that would be acceptable to the the population on the whole or do you think were going to continue to see this reliance on security being provided by cite sources by the un for example or by france because the so much political instability within mali itself you know actually i think over the last im looking for is sending crews say in response of all cooperative in a government that delivers on social welfare and i think that notion that. You know in my least challenges arise out of one god in space this is actually not true i mean i think the fundamental discuss to be sure that this also predicted to your question really is what kind o. And degree some gun nuts mechanisms desirable in any landscape you know how do these defense bases get governed and how do they function and the money on space its about is about water its about every day security is an education its about jobs and its about their response. Down to men in bamako that response to date every day needs of its citizens but not cool for a long time thats only connect to access and thats had me ever given anything back russian as good it has been that has been the problem and with an act to sink a pothole because its and and it ought to by doing that their basic security and its my own experience in nothing bad as far back as 2009 and. What my dancing to most wanted is not because they will have to end it because they want to do beyond us to want and to be. With them b. C. Yes its all off right that narrative that boy and his team brain get on board and he and i think you know what they dont is it the negativity i bring you know all that is making its popularity d is that look we need to stabilize the situation and go but try and do about to a democratic regime. The strategy of if should we or this is what northwick it was when katie and his team where discovering that country the same people every institution is multilateral organizations were no issue in structures got great translators be the entrances to trim it ok and what and i did do it and it will to help in bringing the stability that the country so what do you think of. The the incoming president also happens to be a former military man and spent some time in the military and self do you think hes acquits for these challenges will he be able to provide the. The the Kitchen Table the solutions these Kitchen Table issues that that malinda working 40 think the focus has been too far on the security aspects and Everything Else has fallen by the wayside now liberals are looking for stuff really cheap for comic livelihoods that takes to question christian the challenges that the f. A. A. Says the arrangement that has people to place now its a political game that who once was pushing extremely hard that kept quiet. So yes you want somebody with but you know you will give you some where you will start. Ok we need to go back to the drawing board really with a madman and just say how do we move forward here lets not forget that mr depot is out there who speaks and brings us. Ok their shift from purely military to go over to oprah uprising missed this. Different. From there from their prime i really military stuff that we have we are seeing in iraq and that is why boehner and. Ok lets get a view from paris and were looking at a situation in mali that had 60 years old independence from france and yet francine said bring a more active role the never. In mali do you think this is impacting in some way the instability that were seeing in mali or do you think its frances presence in the country or is not helping secure any kind of stability political or otherwise moving forward what appears significant is that yesterday it was as you may know the 67 adversity of the independence of mali for media treat coups in the mean time. See me go tell who is really the strong man on the stage and. Made a new key to the people so that they support the foreign partners in the war against jihadists and and he named the french they ration he named me new small the u. N. Mission in mali and also tech which is that nascent gathering of special forces from europe you know there thats very true but i may say also that you know that. Because each other and when talking to french trekkie just military politicians some of them would say that france is still there but we looked at least to one point i think its very interesting to insist on it that you were asking the question about the new man. Just be aware that mr do these 2 retire. Officer what i was so. Plan b. For. The 1st game of go tell was to be the transitional president and its under. Pressure that he had somehow to compromise so its clearly a transition but its a military transition in military fatigue and we green beret and it leads to some kind of frustration including we speak will involve in what they call the m 5 movement you have the movement of the 5th of june this kind of civic in sturgeon see which immersion last june in fact it may be too easy just gave the final knock the final struck but to. Go back ok to the expresident was extremely unpopular and as you may know no one came to the street to try to save his regime no one in mali no want to look. Ok but in terms of frances role there you say france is their somewhat reluctant. If there is no iran you met lets say regime in power and theyre going to focus on the security and sort of so forth why does france feel the need to say. Well look its quite simple. When friends arrived in 2012 it was at a time when there was a real danger that the forces coming from dont know rush to buy my co take power because there is something of a holo political situation so then they had to enlarge all the countries from the region and the am of the military strategies in france was in fact to at one point passed the task to. An African Force the socalled the 5. But he didnt work because i mean when you talk to officers or even simple soldiers between the share book enough to name street all that concrete they say we are not ready we are not equipped you are not properly trained ok so lets like you cannot we need that kind of support at that stage ok. Do you think that the front the french president. And west africa is need since. Well i think thats what i have to spice up some reality its up to my time if thats most of the west african cities and. Thinking that they have come off h. So if you have to get this you need to be a 100 and get 4 if the kind of Security Architecture that is being used in our lives not just in west africa not just in mali but india and bob west africa you see im lucky in. Got it from the outside then Little Wonder why the issue of celebrity becomes a problem in this instance that is on who is not. In the so regional of musician on call us and the intentions of france and therefore most times it was would think that some of their faults is being sabotaged because some point is difficult for my lips no way that they have a lead just because ought to be governments off the bodies and thats an interesting point i see you know saying that professor owning what are echo of his options here because there does seem to be this this pull as dr as it was saying between you know as our allegiance to france or as our allegiance to echo us question really france or south between there and never had a place because their present course and then almost inherent in its own conventions and protocols have not been applied consistently over time and i think what your position. And the situation that might it is facing now beyond that by research this is about recreating and you are to ask them what such as a west africa and West African States can feel. That yeah voices can be headed and they literally that and his future i mean we are seeing some developments as my colleague in paris just described it just incompetence and corruption in giving in bed in any luck order where the shift in how the constitution americanisms are supposed not just must be general in these particular cases so even when france is not where king asked. It or tool as such as it is dont trust france it was itself as a critic or ok were in the final 5 minutes gentlemen so i just want to get your views on what the way out of this is what the future holds and if it say to bring better governance to mali and a better situation moving forward where does the solution lie in professor ending if you could give us your fees well 1st and foremost was small going back to the drawing board is saying how do we fashion out governance of them which different voices be given this beast of a place to contribute to determining and this and yet ones huge ok to cower in one sense a cop out because theyve experienced and talented. Ok thats. Your views on on the where the way ahead for molly lies and do you think a future for mali means less involvement from france. Ok to put it bluntly 1st of all the gentile needs to be credible so if it appears. Wes just you know civilian these guys and with the time passing it will become extremely difficult for. These friends to keep on hand number 2 there is a deep need for restoration if not creation of a critical state to give you just an example of an agreement to Peace Agreement was signed in years to sell it on and 155 years ago a very interesting report was published last months and it showed that only less than 20 posts and of the specifications of that record have been enforced and because of that there is a sense of resentment in the population against the corruption and impunity and injustice so if you succeed in this on this street for locals you may you may hope for a better situation but everything in its to be proved in a country once again who have who has experience for each week would just one very lucky thing and its maybe i will but i think its interesting enough that the new transitional president abunda was the head the call of mossad how who was a restless dictator and who passed away by the way one week ago so we have here the story of a very hectic succession of attempts to establish a genuine democracy failure is and could it up so to get out of this you need to create or recreate a state to speak of ok and finally i leave you the last words. Do you think murray needs to go back to the drawing boards and start from scratch. Well i think the 1st focus will not be on the or just off election just to to tick the box sort the most be efficient allies mechanism to stabilize the 2nd thing is that i do not think that it is it is fair not just on cost protocol and mechanisms as it relates to Good Governance but also to the conscience of the rest of my leaders that the dont that will serve others in any guys would be a Transitional Government and finally it is important that miley begin to look beyond the market to an inclusive government that includes the women inclusive already just in mali and also grew tired we didnt the context of recourse mediation and really is traditional for a social justice and is that likely to happen with a military lead but astray ssion. Not with this current john i think it is good to be a design if process Going Forward but the military john. As the Vice President also going to be transitionally many guys i think its a recipe that might allow all of us writing really well that there are people out to be shit ok well have to wait and see what lies ahead for molly a complicated story but certainly one with many potential outcomes thank you so much sentiment for a fascinating discussion thank you to dr chocolate maker is a professor quizzing an ng and visa. And thank you for watching remember you can see this program again any time by visiting our websites out to 0 dot com and remember for further discussion just head to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a. J. Inside story but you can take it directly at our market and i for me and the whole team here in doha its a. It could be the biggest land grab in history. As powerful nations lay claim to territories under the ocean 21. 00 geologists are secretly plotting new borders. 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