Hi im Steve Clements and i have a question is there a connection between the shooting of jacob lake and can osha wall street capitalism and Excessive Military spending my guest today says there is lets get to the bottom line. When a policeman shot jacob blake 7 times in the back in front of his kids in wisconsin last month it was a painful reminder that real change is not coming fast enough to these United States the shooting reignited passions across the country especially after an armed white 17 year old counter protester came to wisconsin from a nearby state until 2 other people protesting the shooting so whats going on in the United States are we heading down a healthy road will race continue to be used cynically to get votes while the poor and disadvantaged continue to suffer endlessly joining us today is someone who has been thinking of preaching about these issues for decades he is professor cornell west one of the most prominent intellectuals alive professor west teaches at harvard and princeton universitys hes written 20 books and he still has time for his new weekly podcast and its great the tight rope. Professor thank you so much for joining us recently i was at the National Museum of africanamerican history and culture and i saw the emmett till way i saw the wing that tells the story of the horrifying near genocide in tulsa in 1921 and if you can occur to me that george floyd a modern are very Rionda Taylor could one day be a wing in a museum and we would still have everything the same today so let me just ask you bluntly is this is an end in Inflection Point to you or do you think that this is just history you know going to continue on as it always has. Well there certainly a moment of change of the question is whether its going to be change that tilts toward poor and working people or whether it will be a change or just reconsolidate he leet rule moving in much more neo fascist ways let me say it is steve in tribute to you and the work youve done with the legendary charmers h. Johnson one of the great scholars of the american empire that much of American Public discourse and most american intellectuals are armed at this moment because we have never taken seriously what it means to examine america as an empire and the ways in which america as an empire allows us to understand the relation between White Supremacy lets say like george floyd being. Lynched and wall street and corporate elite and the military Industrial Complex and the empirical tentacles of the United States around the world in a 100 military units. A military budget that is more than the next 9 countries combined so what happens is is that even when you think of the museum you know the museum is just so merrill centric with no connection of the ways in which predatory capitalism and imperial subordination of brought type geopolitics and type of Natural Resources like oil in the middle east for example are connected to white supremacist practices at home and still as the american empire continues to decline as it moves truer its its collapse as it were we dont have the intellectual weaponry required to understand what is really going home now William Appleton way humans and Bernard Deval told him back in the thirtys in the fiftys chomsky today and of course there may be. The boys sylvia went there and her brilliance and genius from the Vantage Point of jamaica and Stanford University provides some intellectual love weapon true but for the most part the orientation of the public discussion the orientation of the curriculum in our universities do not understand United States is in part that we can get rock obama always talking about it in a credit deficit or talking about. The founding of america cant say a mumbling word about Indigenous Peoples because its the difference between Understanding America as a settler colonial enterprise that moved from 13 states to 48. 00 in then 50 as imperial expansion as opposed to america as a democrat experiment left out black people and all we need to do is include back people america becomes another did that grant shapps city only heal that beacon of liberty no even if White Supremacy were to disappear america would still be an Unjust Society because the capitalist processes are such that the levels of poverty would be still there that they are not i think passion i think that at the workplace it would still be there the military units around the world would still be there so we have to have a conception of martin killing talk and of course a great deal of the beach boys is a scholar that does bring all of this together but he taught us what justice is visible i know you dont look at the trump biden standoff. And choice as being the right choice but does this create the ingredients were finally this country could change or do you feel as if were going to still be hollowing out people still maintaining racism the kind of keep our our global sprawl if you will. Took question what we want is that. Theres no doubt that with the neo fascist gangsta in the white house we have to be part of an Antifascist Coalition because he. His being in charge of things can easily call into question the very possibility of any kind of democratic practices rights and liberties let alone social movements and so for the neo liberal wing of the ruling class with the disturbs the Democratic Party is still going to be a. Disaster but not the catastrophe that trump ears because theyre still so tied to wall street just built so tight to the pentagon is built so tight the militarism around the world in their conception of justice is to just simply make the class an imperial hierarchy more colorful so they want more black people in more brown people they more want want more women to be part of this class hierarchy to be part of this imperial hierarchy so its still very much an imperial democracy in that sense and thats where so many people think that lo and behold thats what it means to be progressive but the much more raw truth telling and just a seeking tradition that does have real roots in the United States United States is always has that had critics of the american empire has always been deal ella baker who was invoked by biden himself in the speech ella baker was an exemplary. Anti imperial and a strong critic of capitalism and she work with Martin Luther king jr National Work was doppler carmichael and i and nat and the others where things are going now i just dont know and we had a wonderful gathering the last few days with brother dick brenna and the movement for Peoples Party where you got this variety could cough very very courageous visionary voices with the critique of the drums the critiques of the bombs drop the critiques of support of any regime that it dominating our occupying a people vicious Israeli Occupation for example truck we went we must stay in contact with the richie manatee of our palestinian brothers and sisters were not in any way getting an antiu. S. Hatred anti jewish sensibility but telling the truth about the vicious behavioral right wing jewish elite gangsters like nathan yahoo so for saying would be true in terms of critiques of domination in russia because of domination in china critics of domination and africa will be able to tell the truth and the condition of truth is to allow suffering to speak and thats why we will we love d the brother johnson work i mean he began with with japan but went back to the men regime and it being 68 and telling that story in their imperialism of japan because of big korea well how do we keep track of the humanity of those frontman on call the wretched of the earth its intellectual to pass it is a moral task and i speak of course of the christian it is a spirit task we have to have afforded to in the face of all of the oppression the lot the crimes and the neck it ugly repression that will more likely come our way and that for too can beef fructify no one forward William Wordsworth preclude what is it the fructify the jury fruit that generate intellect. To fruit ways of seeing to generate more fruit ways of acting to generate steady cruet weight feeling see differently beer all differently at different listener we keep track of empire White Supremacy male supremacy and homophobic chant transphobia any form of the religion that would undermine rights and liberties in any form the institution that we lose sight of the presence humanity of each and every one of us and i would even go far as the saying of course it simply a creature because were talking about ecological catastrophe an extinction of so many species and were also talking about possible Nuclear Catastrophe which could bring the end to the planet as we know it given the 2 gangsters who actually are in control of those buttons putin on the one hand and trump on the other what does Racial Justice and Racial Inclusion look like and feel like what when you know youve got it theres a lot of tunnel talent there but i dont know if people have an idea of what it is to have that construct in front of them and im wondering if you can share a vision of that for our viewers when we go is it just what love looks like in public its like tinnitus is what love feels like in private and when it comes to the 400 year attempt to call into question the humanity of black people in the western hemisphere it was rare much of modern construction tied to slavery intact predatory calves expansion of the cotton picking in the us out to the lancashire type to learn mills in britain allowing britain to be the 1st country to industrialise before any other that were really talking about. Sumi for flare manatee black people. So that all the vicious attacks on black intelligence the attacks on black beauty knows its that lips hair texture skin skin pigmentation the attacks on black moral character in trying to ensure that black people are always Walking Around scared intimidate so that psychologically youre already on free spiritually youre already on free thats what White Supremacy does so to talk about Racial Justice is not just to talk about equal access to goods and services and black people have been supposed selfdetermination has to do with you that respect has to do with issues of of genuine acknowledgement richey managed and we know of anybody who recognizes rich humanity like those the us can not like and check our short stories like a John Coltrane solo we all have a propensity that are good and bad propensities for evil propensity toward the good at the exceptions of ones humanity but when black People Associated primarily with pataudi primarily with ignorance primarily with lack of and all of the vicious troops that go hand in hand with racism talk about Racial Justice talk about black lives matter is an attempt to shatter all of those lives but there can never be Racial Justice without Economic Justice they can never be Racial Justice without gender just because people act but cause and be a black woman it cant be it would our voting on before because weve always been gay brother the list misses of the black community so that Racial Justice again is in the visible commodity forms of justice and youre right i mean for me and my own now. Rather a parochial way you know i call it that my own particular kind of christianity is deeply rooted in how i was raised and what i read and so forth and so on but i really do believe that he grew scripture it was a kind of more revolution in the species in terms of defining what it means to be human is the spread has that steadfast love and loving kindness to the orphan the widow of the partners and motherless is not alexander the great its not our chillies its not all of the heroes who is kani even cyrus the Great Respect for and then emperor coming out of the world historical persian tradition but but at that deeper level ordinary people have a preciousness and a priceless ness thats what sits at the center of the imago day and people scripture and then Jesus Mohamed come right out of that prophetic you did it tradition and thats where i would look to our situate myself but also you know in socratic legacy of athens means a lot to me no question and the constant questioning the need to put down the need to wrestle with perplexity not just curiosity the perplexity of teen near at the end of that classic by shakespeare the how hes holding why because he is overwhelmed his world is shattered when as profoundly human as like bob marleys the whalers and now whining the way less theyre waiting why because of the suffering the misery how do you get a handle on it so that theyd need to have the last word need that a misery nor the suffering just like in lear well despair have the last word wonderful wonderful. Issue that you see shut to shakespeares magnificent corpus these are the kind of questions it seems to me that are very important these days because were living in a moment of neo fascism escalating and despair intensifying and we have to be able to work through the spare lock up book of fire like what mark said about 4 bach. The proof for that which we all must pass in order to become more fortunate and have looked for it to be more it be more willing to think feel seat fight length organize and live in that dr west that wonderful depiction. Of soul and purpose and i appreciate it i know that you have not endorsed joe biden but i know that you have said thats one path to stopping donald trump but do you see anything in the wreckage of that time that gives you hope that biden may actually be more willing to work on this class and Economic Justice piece of the democracy puzzle than then you give him credit for. Well appreciate the question but of the i just dont know how people change no one would have thought that a wise approach as like Lyndon Baines johnson would be the major president ial force for a black progress in the 1960 s. People do change and the evidence for biden doesnt look good by tends to be someone who just moves. With the whispers of others in the old crime bill the architect of the. Most massive mass incarceration regime in the modern world targeting poor people especially black black youth the same would be true with the war in iraq killing a half from me and precious brother the sources in iraq with no apology whatsoever mean these are these are these are real crimes against humanity it seems to me and hes not the only politician politicians across the board were complicitous in the in congress in washington d. C. At the time but he might change i mean i do believe people can change i just cant make big profits. Progressive project on his changing thats why i vote for him as an antifascist vote stand with noam chomsky stand with angela davis and stand with my brother bob avakian encourage dicks stare at a whole host of of leftism progressives who have antifascist orientation but i respect the poll streets and the chris hedges and the glen forwards in the margaret kimberlys in the a jew mobile rockers who are very critical of involved but youre still my comrade we just disagree strategically on that but who knows i mean it could be that the escalating. People in the streets to pressure from the street does make biden more and more l. B. J. Like at this time its hard to say will says to come alive harris also be pushed its hard to say her record is not many way kerching in this regard she seems to be very much like my. She is they are garden variety politician she will do what is necessary in order to win the next election in order to win the applause of the centrism the moderates and specially the donors and the benefactors who provide the money i do think Democratic Party just so call in wall street and big money and big donors and the bit lobbyist from a pac for example youve got a number of folk in Democratic Party who know that the treatment of our brothers and sisters that in one west bank in gaza has to crimes against humanity but they dont have the courage you know to back on speak out against it theyll be viewed as antisemitic even as anti jewish and its just not a case of that but thats lobby that lobby money i think young jewish bones sources who are now joining hands with many of the palestinians and many of us in terms of calling for justice but we want to make sure of course that all of us are accountable Palestinian Jews across the board turn the truth and turn to justice no revenge no hatred we have to bring critique to bear no matter what but were focusing on the suffering and the misery well by be open to that kind of move i doubt it but you never know i dont believe in dictating peoples behavior nobel. We human beings we are mysterious unpredictable disasters and possible wonders at the same time. As people watch the violence in portland as they worry about whats going on in cities how do we get it right dr west. Where they are thats another wonderful question of but you know the great poet t. S. Eliot to be given his history genius had his own reactionary politics too much and jewish element in him but his genius and. He wrote 936. 00 burnt norton he said we moderns are distracted from distractions by this directions and so much of American Culture which is a commodified culture its full of just weapons of mass distraction. And so much of the substantive issues of pentagon power pentagon crimes wall street power wall street Crimes Police power Police Crimes wealth inequality these are the substantive issues you see those are the ones fundamentally that can change peoples lives at the deepest level we in america tend not for the distractions so we end up with the politics of representation the politics of spectacle so you get fights over the monument to get fights over what you gonna write in your street black blood matter and so forth i agree with so much of those i would like to see new kinds of symbol symbols in some sense do matter but symbols also become distractions from the more fundamental issues and when those fundamental issues are issues that require people to come together in multiracial solidarity in motels sexual and multinational solidarity those are the ones who that matter. And so i think to see so much energy spent lets say in a small town like that so much energy spent over just intense debate and come up with resources and put black lies matter right there in the square and then you look around in the neighborhoods and black people are still living lives of poverty and misery and brawn and disaster you still got a mass incarceration system working you still got decrepit School Systems you still got in decent housing you dont have assets the medicare which is the most i mean can you imagine any Civilized Society not allowing its citizens to have assets to medical care but no weve got Big Pharmaceutical Companies in there greet in their interest youve got big private Insurance Companies in their grief and theyre into the dont even allow an 89 percent of american citizens want medicare for all of it brother bernie was talking about big Democratic Party cant deliver Republican Party and i think it about liberal why because the oligarchs to plutocrats dictate the destiny of the nation not people so those are much more substantive to me the red ink black lines matter in washington d. C. Or black clad matter what was in detroit and so forth so on so people walk around with a sense of fulfillment or weve got this symbolic victory and then they still catch and hail him and we thought it would do us president with brother brock obama black president black attorney general black Homeland Security black mayors and they still cant stop the police from killing young Black Brothers or sisters be honest theyll go. Floyds. Brother gardner still got substantive issues are not being addressed in the deceptive issues have to do with a predatory capitalist system they have to do with the militarism abroad that take 0. 53 of baby discretionary dollars spent in washington to go to military and you only have 0. 47 left and then even there youve got austerity programs the neo liberals say we dont have any money but all when its time to go to war in afghanistan when its time to overthrow. The ruler in libya gains that he would still have a right to rule without overthrowing him and so weve been dropping a drone the only innocent people in yemen and somalia and afghanistan and pakistan its all we got big money for that was trying to bail out wall street Federal Reserve done bell out not just main street they could have bailed out Community Banks they could have built a whole host about the banks why do you remain tied to the wall wall street banks thats gotten that summers and sterling thats the ones you were talking about easy right thats goolsbee thats their world a little merrill truncated wall Street Center of world if the wall if it was peter doing well its a stock market doing well that americas doing well what a large what does it mean and impart dictator dick to tell lies hiding right thats chickens that come home to roost when you tell so many lies and you engage in so many crimes and you think that somehow you are still innocent jane hall and you say you cant be off the rest of the risers this devastation and steal view yourself in the sense that in a sense itself is the crime even before you commit the crime and thats right problem of the United States weve been innocent for so long with Indigenous People innocent but since laymen of africans innocent would subordination exploitation of white workers innocent in terms of the women. We make our great screws yes we do because People Struggle people sacrifice and yet the big breakthroughs have to be on substantive issues just beyond the symbolic ones well the symbolic one right come this direction. Was reading about in this poll well talk dr west i think we delivered talked about economic economics economic inequality economic subordination we talked about imperialism and colonialism and we talked about race and you tie them all together and i have to say youre a total realist youre like no b. S. Realist but theres a hope in this in that and i just want to say thank you whats your hope and no optimism thats exactly right. Yeah well thank you so much for thank you for joining the bottom line they do salute you my group so whats the bottom line cornell west is not optimistic about the future of this country no matter who wins in november hes right when he says that race will be used as a wedge issue in the selection and hes right when he says that america will do anything to maintain its empire including hollowing out the Economic Standing of its own citizens and i guess i agree with him when he says were all prisoners of hope and thats the bottom line. To jump into the stream and julia not Global Community this generation will have to create its own democracy with social media on and will online be part of the debate let me put some you keep coming steve when no topic is off the table is taking on all the systemic islands that people of color have suffered not only now but for decades we all banks need to transform lives the way he gets he way to business if were going to adapt to climate right down this street on out is the this is one of the founding technological revolutions in all of this make our planet great that we have to meet the c o 2 emission targets electric cars that need mitchum in motion they need to be mined where people are just talking about the stars and thats going to solve the problem the world of business and commerce is driving the Energy Transition is the promise of clean energy and illusion the top side of green energy. On aljazeera. 200 hours g. M. T. On aljazeera im come all santa maria and these are the headlines rescue workers say they are close to reaching the source of a sign of life detected under the rubble of a collapsed building in beirut scanning equipment picked up indications of briefing a month after the massive explosion which killed more than 200. 00 people and injured thousands more and other news nato secretarygeneral is calling on russia to cooperate with an internet