At the top of the al. Called golden passports documents obtained in cyprus by which people from a number of countries the aim for some is to access the e. U. One of void corruption brought downs at home or elsewhere but is that leave go and whats come to do to stop with this is inside story. Hello welcome to the program. And aljazeera investigation has revealed that cyprus has being given european passports to convicted criminals and high level political figures if for an investing 2 and a half 1000000. 00 in the country the law leak of possible data to our Investigative Unit exposes serious flaws to the islands so cold golden passport scheme thats generated more than 8000000000. 00 for its government there will be and Justice Commissioner says hell consider legal action against cyprus Deborah Davis reports. The European Parliament has repeatedly demanded an end to schemes where one country can sell passports which open up access to the rest of the European Union in an exclusive interview with al jazeera the European Justice Commission has said the time had come for legal action. I have had many contacts with. The minister of interior. Said letter to the government and now we are analyzing its need of interviews and in the city all key problem was a list of the cyprus papers leak reveals the scale of passports sold to wealthy foreigners including criminals and officials considered high risk of being corrupt the European Commission should put cyprus before the European Court of justice the passport scheme of cyprus is a risk to security in europe you should earn your passport and your citizenship by integrating into society and not because you have a lot of money at a press conference yesterday this is how the cypriot interior minister branded the cyprus papers you have to go and you are just you know what houses here is doing is not Investigative Journalism but rather propaganda against the light press but the scheme has always been controversial even among cypriot politicians the way the scheme was implemented the last few years. Yes a procedural final out here in this. For which the republic of cyprus. From the pretty near the critics the only thing that will satisfy them is the phasing out of this is that we will see you will hear its the best way of course. He also wants the Cypriot Parliament to take its own measures a new law to strip passports from criminals has just been passed i want to be sure it was also something we thought the nationality well we have proved we have evidence of the real problem of Money Laundering show or that. I have seen you know we are all so new we have the reaction of the rebel side worked its a sort of the house of the justices side has investigated so far the government says theyve identified about 30 individuals hes no longer be considered fit for citizenship the evidence of the cyprus papers suggest there are many more Deborah Davis aljazeera london. Lets bring in our guests from brussels laura breo senior policy officer at Transparency International covering the European Union from nicosia cyprus is brock saw antony other area go president of the united democrats Political Party and former minister of Commerce Industry and tourism of cyprus from florence is yelena junk is director of the Global Citizenship observatory of the european universities this year thank you all for joining us more i would like to ask you about the reaction of. The of the government in cyprus has basically said that there were isolated cases there were blown out of proportion in the al jazeera Investigative Program what do you make of that reaction. Well its not the 1st time that cyprus is actually. That cases are exposed showing that theres been abuses of this of this program so we documented that in the past actually cyprus itself reviewed some cases and identify about 26 individuals that were cases that were problematic and now the cyprus papers so what we see here is not just a few bad apples its much more systemic the holes even if theyve been reforms are not adequate and plus they are not they dont seem to be well implemented so its i dont think weve been exaggerating and i dont think i have been a exaggerating when saying those that a systemic problem and this this program is really from prone to abuse and and vulnerable when you laundering and corruption risks are the governments its a 1000 to 19 said on admit to mistakes made during the processing of some of the requests and decided to strip bar sports from 26 investors so in a way or another were talking about a problem that has being going on for quite some time. Thank you for having me hashanah of course i have to clarify im not really presenting all the sides government and leader of a Political Party and these are the views of our Political Party you know i am a firm and of course. I would like to share with you a very relevant experience i happened also to be as former economist with the central bank of cyprus i said there from 81. 00 to 2005 and during my service i was also the call to nature or all the work that was taking place in reference to the accession negotiations for cyprus to the European Union between 972003. And one main theme of course is the how when i was a nation of our local laws we have the laws so they get a p. R. Union and the implementation of these laws and there may seem to be discrimination there for was to introduce legislation that had to do with anti Money Laundering. Aspects heitinga among laundry and to adjusting institutions that school to prevent and. Fight Money Laundering actually there isa. Very well im only human to be attorney general he said that we share and joyce. Great respect what you have been your institutions and wigner internationally i think its good the brain. At work and the reason im saying these is that. To the extent. It goes without saying that even there are. Money laundering that tense or attempts for criminal action wherever you know were out and especially within the European Union mission definitely being i dont really on the basis of a European Union directives and regulations. Now and i have written that as the implementation or youre at legislation i mean if you were in that sad course we would go back and talk more into details about what the government has been doing but at the same time about the concerns voiced by the European Union but let me for the time being go to yelena yen of the european Justice Commissioner says that hes considering legal action to stop cyprus from selling gold and passports what does that mean were going to see more of a showdown between the e. U. And cyprus. Well that depends well see how the situation is going to unfold in the coming weeks but also the january 2019 report to the European Commission on investor citizenship skiings mentions that will civility often cringe meant procedures especially in view of the n. T. And im one of the wandering directors swear by it since 2000 when he says that then to generate 0. 20 the fact that that Money Laundering directly benefited the poorest countries are obliged to perform Due Diligence especially as regards investor residence and Citizenship Programs are but this war said essentially for the last 2 years i have a number of european institutions including the commission the European Parliament had consensually highlighted the numerous problems with investor citizenship and residence programs to europe so i guess what we will see are Significant Developments in this regard and negotiations. Between the countries and the European Commission and what their institutions more i assume that the the will definitely have to look into this issue in particular but what do you think the e. U. Will do what kind of leverage he has to to try to implement some sort of a clampdown on on golden passports. So thats what this story and other stories we like to documented in the show is that there is the new york problem that requires a new solution what these countries are doing and theyre not on the exposing themselves to risk or to their citizens but theyre exposing the e. U. As a whole because the the people who granted thought for the i think they get free access to the e. U. They can travel around they can open a bank account in another e. U. Country so weve been really calling that is like which has been a long time weve been calling the e. U. Im doing something and they. As weve mentioned before they came out with a report saying that they would do something but we still are waiting for 4 for a response and now that the commissioner commissioner renders that said this week that he was there would it be exploring whether the e. U. Could bring infringement proceedings against cyprus where are they what the legislative and we really urge the e. C. Must that the commission sorry must not waste no time on this. They must and allies whether the prince principle of Sincere Corporation between Member States has been violated whether the security of the of this of the e. U. Has been undermined by this means and not only in the case of cyprus but in the case of over countries which are so have these kind of schemes and plates and then 4 so what we doing is what we calling for is that a phase out of these schemes both fast forward and visa schemes but in the meantime we should not leave a vacuum and the the commission mascot must come up with a roadmap and with a legislative proposal to act to the arm when i standards at your level to ensure that there was no rights to the book a 3 member state that actually going to to just. Present and this came up more attractive than the thing you want to the ongoing conversation. Yes and just to clarify that the issue of seat is that she is still remains within the competence of a member state in the European Union its not regulated on a new all white faces yet though of course if they you proceed to introduce you like criteria that might be true to the benefit of all because many other countries run our citizenship schemes what i would like to comment however is that. To the extent that. If you instances might have been traced and i do not know specifics i am not in the Relevant Ministry but to the extent that some cases are being traced i. E. To generalize and attack the whole role of a program or a specific country as if everybody that invests in cyprus you said creamy not and whether invest elsewhere or is not and what i would like to add here is that foreign direct investment. Is the preferable instrument or attracting Foreign Companies for. Development in all of the countries and peace directly encouraged by the European Union and other countries actually as a type of last big investment were trying to help development or at and in the case of cyprus most of the money that comes to using the home or whoring direct investment actually in the real estate sector now even some of these money is has been traced or will be traced that is not completely clean we should be very careful and we should be trying to prevent Money Laundering attempts and to the extent that subject them from taken place. To run after ok well were just this is a let him come not peace not a country its sure i mean i see your point if i could. And the last comment just the last when i was you got time for the last 4 yes because i was working as a businessman they are some of the people i met had counted your passport and love and have them visa ok now it was possible that some crews gave permission all right because cyprus he still not in sangin so we have to be careful and not as i seem. Bookseller i see i see i see i see your point and this is why im going to youve heard what the basically was saying that you cannot just single out a cyprus other countries are doing the same thing and that is quite legitimate for any country to sell citizenship because that would generate cash and that cash could be injected into social Development Program. Yes well yes and i would tend to say i agree its the access to Member States citizenship is the prerogative of the Member States however we always have to sit there that axis and citizenship of any Member States or European Union gives the applicant uy threats rare i significantly this agree with that with the previous speaker are the actual practical concerns regarding investor Citizenship Programs here cyprus is not being single that there have been problems with the Cypriot Program since 2012000 not the 11 where having luck look at big events of great citizenship in 2008 being 2019 there have been issues related to for action and scandals and sects that go beyond cyprus we have seen russian scandals most of the country even European Union that happening implementing confess their Citizenship Program looting doleac. Book area or to go austria etc etc. Also when beyond europe you can see corruption and then Money Laundering in countries that just think its a numbers the commonwealth miniger which was facing protests incorporate 2019 as a result of its investor citizenship scheme but also the commerce which performed the met it will passports to the United Arab Emirates and kuwait so i dont think that in this case this. Corruption is there is an exception ok as a rule needs these programs roll others would tell you for example that like it or not but selling possible source citizenships has become a big Global Market for wealthy individuals who are looking for low taxes elite education and will have. The old political reasons and when you say we have to reconsider or look into which you seem to be in a way or another completely disconnected from the new reality in the world which is basically the wyatt of every single individual who has cash to buy citizenship yes thats true that there may be legitimate reason to hold a 2nd passport and and legitimate reason for or for applying for a passport in cyprus or elsewhere in over and over you countries but what. Transparency international as an Anticorruption Movement were not positioning ourselves against the schemes but what weve seen so far is that Member States countries in general ive been the neighbor to demonstrate that they could actually run this speed safely even the coalition in there in the reports you may not meant to mention earlier. Acknowledge that this these schemes are inerrantly risk and inerrantly means that that means that by design they were set up actually to attract investors at any cost and any cost it can be we not take a look at the money come from were not there were not taking your criminal records. So thats thats what weve been pointing out so we coming to the conclusion that it should be phased out because they are just too too risky it will get us to closed for if you could reasons or and perfect i see your point very briefly if you dont mind of listening to you youve been defending the track record of your country and at the same time i would like to remind you the you remains unconvinced that cyprus is doing enough to stop suspects money and characters flowing into your country and by extension the e. U. As a liberal democrat. Go have to leave it up because im the kid of a Political Party that belongs in the european liberal Democrat Family i couldnt be more in favor of fighting corruption and supporting a democracy and. Cant see any measure that can be taken on a new i level to strengthen the fight of the heart of the European Union against the Money Laundering against corruption. Could not but be welcomed by the liberal democrats. However we should not be singling out and new wife policies could certainly shows many problems in the European Union i have one more comment another small actually story you know i happened to be in the during the bluejay and 8017 and i was living a company there and we felt very much for a friend that we you know what we identified with the die people and we felt very much a sentence that is small country like a long terms of geography of course i was being targeted by a group of countries which wanted to impose perhaps their own Foreign Policy or their own domestic policy and on the pointed this model a country and you can find 4 does not mean they turn it shining on the cell or larger posters of the m. E. M. S. Building standing support for the emir and wearing the bike because we found out what it is like to be targeting a small country will impose policies so we should be careful certainly not we should be weary of attention for Money Laundering and corruption we should be improving the laws where where wherever and. And then they need to prove me that we should not be killing sources of development especially b. C. Both men who have the whole of the i see your point just as more countries i see about. Any regulation and one last party ok yelena youve heard what has been saying basically which is a legitimate right for any country to look for sources of revenue to help in social Development Program and she was shes been repeatedly saying that shes adamant about the need to implement and to corruption and to Money Laundering protocols but you know. Everyone does the same thing the u. K. Does it pay you pay cash and you get citizenship the americans deal with the portuguese there with the spanish do it everyone does it so why why suddenly cyprus. Well i think well the sale of passports and well soares thats programs are problematic know not only as regards the issues that weve been mentioning the direction but it also relates exacerbate a lot of connect all these and this is something that worked out the long before because also we have to consider where the buyers come from where these plants come from etc etc and contextualize these issues seem through other. Developments that are relate that to citizenship acquisition so if you will serve becoming increasingly turning. For ordinary actually going to school live and work in the country what makes it legitimate for a states to sell dispensed citizenship and i dont think the fact that an increasing number of countries and if you look at the global level to see among passports is essentially a limit to a handful of plants in the European Union its called carry out and its a story mode and cyprus in addition to the key supposed area but outside of europe most countries offer different types of presence programs whereas the same passports happens normally in the pool islands now i can accept that in such instances it may generates a lets say a. Cash injection but the question is if this will so purely regardless of the fact that its highly ethical the attic to sell passports or that it increases the bank you well it has become i mean kill the bull in the long term. I really appreciate it now unfortunately we have to leave it there but i promise you that we will reverse it this particular subject in the news future hopefully with you but as a debate about whether citizenship should be considered in a commodity or not and what kind of protocol should be put into place to ensure that theres no Money Laundering or any other issues involved law breo brocks solar antony other carrier co and juncus i would really appreciate your insight thank you. And thank you for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website www dot com for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com for was last a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our hand it is a. J. Inside story from me and the whole team here in doha by phone or. A story of love deception and death an israeli spy operating on the deep cover in syria knowing that discovery would make sense and. 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