Aljazeera. Where ever. I am fairly ok youre watching news stream home edition can we chat well apparently not very much longer in the United States the hugely popular chinese car it has been deemed a National Security threat alongside to talk we will pass whats behind president chants and in todays show and if you want you to be part of the conversation as well put your comments in the comments and you could be in the city. And looking forward to hearing these gifts i will say hello to the guests the guests were introduced themselves to you and im king link to where he hi my name is ken low and im a reporter for the South China Morning Post im based in hong kong and i cover Chinese Foreign policy is in china u. S. Relations im also host for the f. M. P. Podcast and site china which runs on chinas hot topics every week good to have to welcome back to the same mind i guess and our audience who you are going. Much like a researcher for Human Rights Watch i write and research your particular rights issues and im based in new york good to have you and i know times what does our audience need to know about. My name is times writer and lawyer based in virginia and im working on a series of lawsuits against each other on behalf of us we chat users get to have a nice to see you or if you guess if youre a new chief you can jump into the conversation right away but lets start 1st of all with we chat what it does when people use it we are some of our Online Community to explain it and this is what they told us. Peoples life in china is controlled but we have thats like the singles in more important communication tools they have even played games so if you want to is message down or know anything about them you have to get on the chair now the reason why i use we chat and probably also the same reason as to what i use the most for is to really keep in touch with my family in china it is the most popular social media app and the easiest way to stay connected with them since facebook and instagram are in china i use it for work or to a group chasse will miss out on important useful. I use many shops and then we chat while its a chance for money or just shop is one of the few hours that her mother will get both china and the u. S. And we essentially use this app to butte our own Chinese Community in the u. S. Or all around the world so its a pretty comprehensive description of for me china is how people use it full disclosure i guess hands up who has we chat on one of them its. Prosecution does not reach out on his word all right that makes sense. No surprise maybe you know something the 2 other guests do not know killing 1st of all the impact over in the us. To be able to explain so so us president dont trump who launched an executive order on august the 6th saying that we hear our course from the executive or the collects data that threatens. Acts to allow the Chinese Communist party to access to americans personal and proprietary information and you as government also quote it that we chat launches this Information Campaign and censor is content on the platform and therefore there is the band that trump announced and. As to how exactly trump is going to ban the app from operating in the u. S. For example sloshy i know the executive order it was worth it rather fake that any transactions that is related to reach at any personal and property that is within the u. S. Jurisdiction also with the Mother Company if we had had such a bad and a period of 45. 00 days is given until the order comes into effect that will be september 20th. You have on your. Why do you use it. When you can no longer have it all yourself. Well i have to call us so as we check doesnt because i dont know we chat in terms of security but i have to use we chat because thats part of my job and also our my entire family are in china i have to. Whats going on the news from weight shut up because i research in human rights issues of people costs about you know what they see and when. It was we got to the Chinese Governments. On the other hand as i said in my family is in china so i contact them and sent to egypt but as i said you know i dont trust security so i have a policy thats a bit of a way to as well do you know what exactly do you not trust about security archie. First of all i its well knowledge that it will check censors also with him Something Else so i dont know to what extent it would set and extract information from just by virtually having the app on my phone so i want to make sure that it will ted is isolated for the rest of. It since i do with my phone. Times come into the conversation here i want to share this if youre on you tube as well shaquille says chunk just wants to highlight the media against china in order to persuade the americans to vote for him is this a political move or is this something nefarious about what we dont see if its an act on your times. So i think the real problem is not we chat or any particular app its the great firewall that makes we chat and issue and its in fact the one the one way nature of the great firewall so information can obviously exit china propaganda information fairly to the Chinese Government. But even if were sitting here in the u. S. Using we chat and we want to discuss topics that are critical of the Chinese Government sitting here in region near new york d. C. We would be unable to do that are over reach at and so to me you know this is why i wrote the piece in the Washington Post i think targeting wheelchair is. This is the the Bigger Picture. And the reason we couldnt discuss what if we want to definitely chant is because the act has a sense only so if there are woods that might pop in an algorithm for instance those words can be sense and you could send a message to your friends and yeah those protests in home come whats happening about them he said peaches his myth nation that music may know at the get your friend your friend will never know that that message has been censored or interrupted in any way a killing tell us a little bit more about them. Apart from we had basically all chinese social media platforms and including websites that allowed and the chinese internet are subjected to a strict law by the Chinese Government that essentially censors out all things all content that are deemed politically sensitive or damed accusations or criticisms against the Central Government on its end to that so i believe this is part of the Bigger Picture of what we shipped back to to you know i have to share this with you because you have on your phone so leslie is watching right now and there lesley are i love your comment wow we chat sounds amazing just so much it always feels like it can totally run your life. So if a shot sounds from the u. S. What to people who use it in the u. S. Will today use. Well its very interesting because you know i work riskier rights activists and lawyers writers in china a lot of them cant use weight checks why because in order to have a recheck accounts you have to register your id you know that stuff and the governor has a job and those people you know what the government and government has been you know harassing and censoring them so even to get out we checked because the governors are one of them. So you know they have you know developed their or find or trying to. Get each other and to also check with me it signal is not banned in china so you can right now its easy its and the people are students were asked by having a v. P. N. Its cover some its had it but you can still do it this has been cruelly by many people who dont have weights and it would dont dissuade say because the government doesnt like them or because they wanted to speak freely and without the surveillance i got so it just isnt like yeah actually you can show that there are workarounds his hes present trial in august in a press conference where the press is talking about well this thing does a lot of stuff you know concerned that it will impact americans who are using it and he says how he reacted has taken this. Theres a lot of alarm among American Companies about your. Apple core business and theyre worried because its such a big arm of arm in china that if you ban u. S. Business this morning they sell you know i phones or. Whatever so you know why if there were. Security issues. With this kind of injury van let down by gender which. Times what you make of that we actually received chump it was basically at every. Well so my problem with the idea. Which you know could only really be done by you know prohibiting americans from using recherche is that it would almost certainly you know by election of the 1st that the. Your people you know the 1st amendment protects the right to speak in favor of the Chinese Government if you want and there are i know that there are already. Lawyers here in the Chinese Community who are planning to sue the administration. Over over the bed and you know as most as i have misgivings about i think we have a very strong argument that anything it would be unconstitutional. That were getting a sense from from the you coming through here that there is a back and forth about china what china does what america does th i. C. C. Thank you feel your thoughts in china did the same thing to other Foreign Companies so it is fair if the u. S. To bank chinese apps can enjoy a room with one. I think an important context and understanding cats rise to popularity inside of china and also among chinese. Overseas is that the Chinese Government in the past few years has essentially banned most of western developed social media platforms including face spoke up and therefore as mentioned by some of the into freeways at the beginning of the shelf this has become the only channel or one of the few channels that has allowed Chinese People within the country and those who have business in china or those families in china to stay in touch and basically that that is an important context that we should keep in mind. Actually let me play this comment from the sexiest state of the u. S. Might prompt him to keep out why he feels we chat should not be available in the us civil list we want to see untrusted chinese apps removed from us abstainers President Trump has mentioned impending action on tech talk and for good reason with Parent Companies based in china apps like to talk we chat and others are significant threats to person that of american citizens not to mention tools for c. C. P. Content censorship. Go ahead im not with disregard i mean the 1st amendment concern is spent arising from banning which i kind of are you know pos concern in terms of security d but of course i mean you know the chinese solution has other are cheerier political motives in terms of furriner taking on we tend to talk about in terms of surveillance and censorship its you know. I would say you know a lot of chinese immigrants particularly the 1st generation twentys immigrants in the u. S. They are often exclusively using reach at talk to each other even the leading us some of them a lesson its so to a large extent you know what they say in the u. S. What. Youre transparent it to the chance government i mean you know what the Chinese Companies cant do utilize export about kind of. You know. For their own purposes this is a concern of these you know true. Times. Yeah youre going to times. I wholeheartedly share the security concern as we chat and the one way nature of the great firewall which frankly i think is more accurately described as a great reality distortion filter. Are real threats are real threats to Democratic Values and to National Security even are real especially because i think the effect of this kind of silo information ecosystem is to make support for the conus party as support for authoritarianism generally are higher than it otherwise would be but you know we we live in an open society we live in a society that has the 1st amendment and there are costs to sticking with those principles and one of them is that we need to find other ways of dealing with threats than just burning them and in a forthcoming peace and Foreign Policy my coauthor and i are the Washington Post piece will be laying out a series of. Policies that we think are more constitutionally sound and more will be strategically more effective than in a simple. Oh lets just drop in here to you cheap again this is septimius i septimus thanks for your comment the us is in decline it is scared of chinas tech more Technological Progress it is food officially trying to ban all chinese tech because it wants to keep its premises killing. So i have been covering on china u. S. Relations and the tension between us and china has gone way beyond just us spending the 2 apps some researchers call it an all front tension where u. S. And china have clashes over human rights issues a military issues in conflict areas such as the sub china sea and also on trade and we are seeing this ban on we chat and tech talk actually which has come in the pairing accepted of order. On august the 6th where when the band on which was launched they spends on chinese mobile apps sometimes esteemed as a new front in the us china trade war where in the past 2 years we have seen the 2 countries raising on for example chip making technology and also 5 g. Networks to follow meant and these all fall into a Bigger Picture of deteriorating relations so the c. E. O. s office if they show perhaps is addressing to this big attention that we are seeing around the world and only this week Chinas Ministry of Foreign Affairs spoke about the coming to talk. And this is how they try to relist it so lets. Move. Some u. S. Politicians made a murderous attack on chinese like to talk and in Chinese Companies like. The root cause is that they harbor hostility towards anything related to china and are attempting to impose ideological labels on Chinese Companies. These people are hunting to talk and other Chinese Companies under the guise of National Security and are full of lies and slander which are in essence bullying who me. So the times we see it as it is is a larger issue between the u. S. And china in terms of nations but if we focus back in on absolute. And the return on athens is he not doing pretty much the same thing the any app that we could not that does and is a whole list of things that we are going to do this this is the say yes yes yes except havent even read the small print and hes doing all sorts of things and maybe selling your data etc etc its we just got the chinese version Everything Else that we use on different apps from around the world anyway. Well the key there is that. The that the root cause of response to the comments from the gentleman that you just quoted the root cause is really the party state in china that is the root cause of these tensions because you know with facebook yes you know we give a lot of our data to Companies LikeFacebook Google and apple but here you know there is a open societies theres a firewall between the state and society and so we have a 4th amendment other countries have similar laws and you know there is a barrier between what the government can do with respect to private companies but in the communist party system in the party there is no barrier so that is what makes. 10 cents we chat to talk different. You want to shake next reaction you know. Go ahead i think its of course equivalence and yes of facebook no class our data but the cracker went out of mostly they want to make money they want to sell at a table cause so death is different so in terms of how you know. You know by extension chess government. The purpose of the data i mean you know what people can use users use way chat and what they say even credit check groups have you know vendor them into beings you know work these are critical of the Chinese Government so i think i mean its a force you can influence in terms of are. Different companies are they are correct that that theres a difference between facebook which thats. Looking at the Bigger Picture we have cindy you and shes a brick comes and its a spectator she spoke to us a little bit earlier at the string of alison. Were trying to buy and take tuck and we chat trump is ramping up the technique from China Companies either in the firing line are no longer telecoms giants which may have a close relation to the state and Infrastructure Sector has now the social Media Companies so what does this mean for the future bust them freedom when it comes to Technology Well it takes them ones that places china by banning apps and it also release chinese entrepreneurs to wonder even if that they have initial relationship to the Chinese State what is the future in the west. Was such an interesting point if you are devising making apps and youre thinking about this is the app basically very cool for people to use people already remarked on how comprehensive is in what it can do these entrepreneurs from pushing the envelope to actually doing some amazing tech not technological work. I think its a very interesting point to note because the current us china relations which resulted in bands like like this on we chat is actually raising a lot of uncertainties for not only App Developers but also for tech Companies LikeBig Multinational Companies for example which which has been which basically the Industry Experts have been raising the possibility of this week had potentially harming their business because apple is a u. S. Company but relies a lot on chinese production line inside Mainland China and also has a lot of chinese uses of i phones and so the subtlety of what such tension between us china on tech and on mobile apps will bring to us companies as one ferry concern and questions for these companies and also as you set for. This and so its and t. Following President Trumps. Basically targeting chinese and chinese. Telecoms try and give them and such as to what audience they should talk on and how big their business or infest men should go. Questions and concerns all. The images some of them up when china bans u. S. Apps like facebook its not a problem when the u. S. Spends chinese ones its a problem i suspect that is coming from the american contingent on you chief thank you for those thoughts. Well i think im Chinese Government advance of facebook yes a problem you know as a writer our own human rights issues ive been criticizing that for sure but that does in the Chinese Government advance facebook and other international i phones doesnt necessarily mean that you know its ok for the u. S. Government to ban same because you know this time says nation that to the 1st amendment concerns there are sally said that the u. S. Should uphold your record of this you know the you know the costs. Just very briefly times sometimes what President Trump says doesnt actually happen but do you expect we chat and to talk to be backed to be gone out of u. S. Apps available if u. S. Apps by september. I diot 1st of all i mean she the executive order itself says that you know there is going to be more details forthcoming. And i think you know there will be. Depending on what those details are its all certainly going to be challenged. In court and also you know the practical reality is that you know people already have which other you know you dont have that doubt and from the app store you know there are other ways to get it. So its not going to result. In the situation like in china technically theres just theres no way to to achieve that but if i may do id like to tie up the writer at the end of the show so im going to leave you with a war and you have the nasty word tines killing thank you so much for talking about the upcoming each year than in the United States if it is pushing it im going to change this. From a local celebrity. To extraordinary intrapreneur. Many called his lands of money home. But when a deadly typhoon hits if if you. Can recall from the disaster. Ill just 0 on the mind of the remarkable people who were. Not answered by this man on aljazeera. Poll and Untold Stories from asia and pacific on how to see it. In 2008 aljazeera documented a groundbreaking. Preparing some of indias poorest children for entry into its time. Faced universities ready. We returned to see other students in the scheme helping change the face of india. Super 30 on mount a 0. No moved out of his parents house after he got married he says he found more space to begin biscuit after a run of eating it last year its now his home along with his wife and daughter and all but theres really a government said the kid was reconstructed weve gotten permits and issued at the militia in order last month our interview were cut short as he hears that the israeli army has arrived in the village with a bulldozer resident faced soldiers gave them one minute to their home it took the found me months to build their brick house and less than an hour to see it get demolished. This is aljazeera. 11 dharavi one come all sorts of maria this is the news hour from aljazeera tensions rise further in the mediterranean as turkey stops back it will conduct live naval drills as the standoff with greece escalates also in the news hurricane laura rolls across the southern u. S. Coast guard