Of. Hey there welcome to the stream home edition i am josh rushing sitting in for femi ok if youre watching this on you tube help me out youre going to join the conversation let me show you to that box right there thats a live chat i know people been waiting to get in it already because this topic today is really hot we have a stream producer in that chat waiting to get your comments your questions to me so that i can get into the guest so help me out if youre coming to questions in there and back to be already have some comments and im to go to one right now milan says i was in a subtle side in case study did wonders and should be something everyone for everyone to consume in the right setting an environment cant wait but the stream interesting are interested to hear what people have to say so there are these studies going on having told you what the topic is yet were talking a subtle segment they were talking about magic mushrooms today were going to talk about them in a therapy setting some of the studies are finally going on they were blocked for a long time but theyre finally going on and that theyre puting value of it there were going to move beyond that there appear to value of it were going to talk about the possibilities that magic mushrooms have in there were going to talk about a movement thats happening across the u. S. Right now where its being decriminalized it already happened in Denver Oakland and this fall in washington d. C. Citizens residents will have a chance to vote on whether to decriminalize it in the capital of the country super exciting to talk about it im joined by. The panel of guests but before that i mean going to bring in our twitter crowd here check this out guys we posted this out on twitter with some questions here some response we got earth dog 58 im willing to give it a go sign me up. Dog. Kurt to relax every i know im mispronouncing that the conception the consumption of such mushrooms is dangerous even in the presence of experts to recognize a crisis in the consumption does. I mean to be able to prevent it so word of warning there well discuss that today and in here is someone in the know ellis got a palestinian flag there i think right got to go with perhaps on this one backed it is its far easier to control dosage with pharmaceutical grade hallucinogenics which is pretty key my understanding is theres a higher incidence of bad trips from mushrooms versus other candidates we need to look at real user data ok great this come up in the conversation we get right to our guest hey guys thanks for joining me here on this stream today im going to ask you to introduce yourself is michael can we begin with you absolutely thank you so much for the invitation to be on the show my name is a smile oh do you know ali and i work as policy in Advocacy Council at the Multidisciplinary Association for psychedelic study is also known as maps and youre joining us from oakland where theyve already decriminalized so were going to talk about that in here in a minute moving up to do in you know whos in San Francisco at the moment how i thank you for having me make my name is Danielle Marie her and i work as a Harm Reduction at their press and Harm Reduction their peace and transform francisco as well as a psychedelic psychotherapist the Sage Institute in oakland. And then down to michelle in chiapas yes hi thanks so much for having me im a journalist focused on psychedelic sun education policy and im also the author of yourself ive been russian companion break let me bring in a voice from our community this is a video from an oxford researcher named eddie jacobs quickly discussed. In the last 10 years weve had Clinical Trials of soliciting food question anxiety very c. T. And addiction he should these Clinical Trials to show not only has been an incredibly safe compound to administer in clinical contexts its also potentially very effective in treating these conditions but just by the safety of suicide and despite the promise that it holds for helping hundreds of millions of people worldwide it remains incredibly difficult to do this research outdated needlessly restricted influential ations governing solicitor then. Regardless of where you stand on the wider conversation about te criminalization of the Recreational Use if youre inside a sporting Mental Health treatments you should be in favor of making it easier scientists to do this research. You talk to me about the use of next. Year. Yeah were mad right now were not obviously using them within the therapeutic context because of legalization but the research is very strong and powerful and i do think theres a good reason for it the complications in legalization in regards to that that this is a good medicine that are utilizing for very serious Mental Health concerns that requires landing in a in honoring the spiritual practices in honoring the the traditional indigenous methods of shamanic uming that were incorporating into something more western in regards to their people so it is it you know when i talk anecdotally of people who have been lucky enough to have access to these methods for healing it has been you know really life changing for them of course they have connections to it be underground with folks who are working with these medicines in non Research Based settings and are experiencing similarly really life changing experiences where they are being lifted from years of depression from. Complicated chaotic relationships with their own with other substances. Difficulties with obsessive compulsive disorder and really long term intergenerational traumas its beautiful work. So is my suit you saying that its difficult to use this that there are a few ticks setting i thought under certain conditions if that was legal now not thats not the case so right now its help were here to differentiate between suicide and magic mushrooms so its ive been in the active ingredient and what we call magic mushrooms and when thinking about the f. D. A. Trials or the Clinical Research theyre usually talking about synthetics or extract and sell aside and in its pure form versus magic mushrooms which is the mushrooms that grow in the field in the forests and the big difference to really think about there is that the actual trials themselves are working toward f. D. A. Approval d which would create legal access in a medical context but what were seeing in the transfer decriminalization or tweet maybe well talk about a bit more later theyre usually focusing on the plant itself or the fungus in this case itself and at this time that there are a couple places in the u. S. Where it is has been decriminalized more and the penalties have been reduced but there really isnt anywhere in the u. S. Where you can legally consume it yet unless youre in the Clinical Trials like. Some of the Clinical Trials might be like whats happened the germans or the way that thats right and whats the timeline on those what it will point him we see that becoming easier for someone like that you know to have access to review that there are a few tips that. Realistically my understanding is that the timeline is probably about 20232024 so m. D. M. A. Which is another psychedelic substance thats also going through Clinical Trials is expected to be approved and about 2022 in about 2 years from now and it seems to be the case that psilocybin is about a year behind that michelle what led you to covering psychedelics as a journalist. Well i have been a psychedelic consumer for sense i was a teenager and when i 1st started there wasnt a lot of i didnt have access to a lot of say nice info and i did some kind of stupid things taking things like mushrooms analyse in unsupervised settings and so i did a lot of research and i found out that there are you know there actually is decades and centuries if you consider also indigenous practices of safe and sacred uses and so i wanted to compile them all into a book that was you know really excessive bull and easy to read so people could learn about how to use these things safely because outside of Clinical Trials theres a lot of people using last rooms and other psychedelics for healing on their own and has a lot of progress being made and so i really wanted to give people all the safeties info they could possibly need to do this where so look i want to guide our viewers to twitter where paul statements if you dont know paul statements he lives up in the northwest and hes kind of the godfather of mushrooms in some ways hes definitely in a vangelis for mushrooms not just in the psychedelic sense but how they can help ramadi the plane with environmental ways that like all sorts of stuff is fascinating guy has a couple of ted talks that have millions of views i have a couple of his books so on twitter he recently posted yesterday i turned 65 years of age a time in life for deep reflection and then i want to play this video for you. This is 2 things certain in life we are born and we die where we come from where were going after with a mushroom experience and you suddenly know youre part of it china and one. Gives you contacts and consolation about your own mortality so i think its critically important that at the end of your life you have a right to these substances. Who dare say that you do not win these menus for thousands probably tens of thousands maybe millions of years and laws are being created. Tries people to use them only the past 50 years. Is. Academically naive its immoral and so i think that everyone has a right to how theyre going to leave this life. Look im just going to be unabashed. But im going to disagree with somebody im really fundamentally here he says that there are 2 things that are true life that youre born in you die i say theres a 3rd thing thats true is that you dont know when youre going to die but dont no one does you dont know when and still for him to say that you know who dares keep this from us that are in the light because hes 65 i dont know if im going to make it to 65 and you know why do i need to wait until im 65 to access what hes talking about this kind of understanding about life. Yeah i love that question are so happy belated birthday paul stamets and so many i often think of like utilizing psychedelics particularly the plant met a sense its a way of practicing death thats another way in which i would almost disagree with half demonstrate you you put your born and you die and you can also have this experience similarly to meditation the psychedelic experience is one of practicing death and in that you are gaining all of the insight that comes from. That wisdom and yeah i think these medicine should be accessible and you know similar to what michelle is saying with and with access we need access to Harm Reduction information to information thats going to allow a container to be set so that both our environment is a container that can allow for the deepest spiritual and healing practices available when we utilize these medicines as well as a person that will allow you to ground into a mindset that offers you the most potential so i totally agree we should have access and people are going to be going anywhere any ways that same thing as Sex Education right abstinence only doesnt work were using drugs we might as well have access to the information thats going to maximize our benefits and from about our going to play here where the comments are coming faster than i can get a minute hold on as well let me get a couple of these guys comments and then well go right to you hold that thought. Missy Kiefer Kaufman says what are the specific aspects of cyber so that make one so self reflect of them being the sort of inner peace that statement certainly love that question is will pick up where you were going to go in there maybe you can rip into verse. Yeah i was going to say that from a practical perspective to the point that danielle was making about containers it seems like for her it seems like whats happening with western psychotherapy and medicine as it relates to Psychedelic Experiences specifically is that were trying to find the right containers so these substances have been used for hundreds thousands of years and it didnt they werent just use haphazardly in the most random context per se usually they were utilized the rites of passage or initiations or ceremonies context within which there was a container where the experience was happening so i think whats occurring is that were merging these and shinseki these cases with his ancient amount of practices with the western psychotherapeutic container or trying to figure out well how do we contain this healing or this experience that we were in the context of medicine today and thats really the exploration thats happening now and i think as far as the effects go that question it really depends on the person some people give you a very biological answer some people give you a very spiritual or psychological answer i think that its probably a combination of factors and to danielles point this idea of how we approach and relate to death and i think that thats something that happens at multiple levels of consciousness at the same time so its hard to point to a single reason why theyre having the effects that were looking at but talking about the effects michele can can you talk to some about the fact that you said you have been a user and also id like to transition this to tart talking about micro dosing taking small amounts each day that are not lucid genet but do people claim have a positive effect can you touch on that michel. Yes sure i think honestly that ball micro doses and larger macro doses you know in the low to moderate dose range are having a lot of the facts of positive effects for a lot of people and you know to speak to ismails point about containers i think a lot of folks who use psychedelics at home you know without some kind of therapist theyre creating their own containers theyre giving this a lot of the thought theyre maybe making their own ceremonies or rituals and routines to put their mindset into one where they want insights and perspective shift and that is something that psychedelics something give us and thats you know a way to a better though well as well and i think micro dosing can do this to an accent people feel bit more open and connected on micro dose days and a lot of other things and its its just helping them be the best version of themselves they can be whether or not they have clinical depression or anxiety or not i think that a lot of folks are finding a lot of benefits regardless we have another video from someone in our community this is paul austin and he is the i think the owner c. E. O. Of 3rd wave took this out. My readers in Silicon Valley are becoming involved in the decriminalization and legalization of movement of source ive been in 3 ways one is by donating to nonprofits and particularly the psychedelic science funders collaborative who then donates money to maps after. Us the 2nd way is by starting for profit ventures theres tons of companies that are popping up in the for profit space for psychedelics who are raising investment to get so as ive been approved as a medicine for depression addiction and various number of other condition there are ways just story telling people telling their personal stories of how my producer has helped them the time is now to d. C. With ties these substances and storytelling is a critical element of that process. Then youll continue to talk about i know my kudos and kind of has this bit of a bad rep or being a silicon bro thing but it goes way beyond that right can you talk a bit about micro doesnt yeah a little bit i would like to say about micro saying is that you know one of the things i think thats being offered here that isnt otherwise talked about is that were what were really doing is allowing the relationship of reciprocity to happen between eyes and plant medicines so that alone is something that i think is really valuable when somebody decides to micro does Something Like philis a business that this there is a so we are allowing people to be a new perspective of i am connected to something bigger than myself and over time that element is adding up into our body and we feel more connected to something bigger than us and when that bigger than as thing comes in we are opening up to larger structural practices that arent really a part of like west traditional western medicine and that can then stimulate new forms of just really a new set of eyes. Yeah thats what i dont say about my going to thing. So the problem with micro dosing right now is this its illegal except in very few places in the us which have decriminalized i know the year in oakland they did criminalize there i believe right and in denver theyre going to vote on it this year in washington d. C. What are some of the counter arguments against decriminalization and had those come to fruition in oakland whats been the fallout of the crime was asian there. Totally ill start maybe by clarifying some terms here because what actually happened in denver and oakland in santa cruz was a deep threat to the nation which essentially that local Law Enforcement would not spend resources in forcing laws related to so a side bin or other planet sends it specifically psilocybin and denver and other plant medicine including still aside and in places like oakland and santa cruz and i think the move toward reducing or eliminating criminal penalties specifically to service that supposedly shifts to the actual calculus that might occur when it comes to a persons risk when theyre taking a substance has been for a very long time can strike seen as a move toward. An overly free society that could lead to people kind of doing mushrooms all the time or doing them in a container and its context thats unsafe i think that there are very real concerns about the utilization of substances like mushrooms at all times that weve been talking about today but a lot of the fear is around kind of increased arrests or are increased kind of Law Enforcement attention i think maybe has not been the case so far and i do think that as we start to see other cities start to decriminalize and reduce the criminal penalties around it well start to see that for especially for something for substances like mushrooms but this is probably true to some extent for all drugs reducing criminalization actually reduces the risk on the person the reality is that prohibition and criminalization increases the risk we know now because of the research thats been done that so its ive been as a substance is extremely safe for the physical body but it becomes much more dangerous when by taking it what youre doing is risking incarceration thats really the harm that i think most afraid of and for good reason thats really i think what the i believe that its likely that more people probably have secondary effects negative effects from criminalization itself that from the my credo sort. From the russian experience you barely hear in her youtube audiences legalization is any illegal drug bring safer usage and dosage plus the pharmaceutical industry must regulate the gradient so it cant be cut with dangerous unknown additives what im wondering kind of a cool stoppable level is that one point in a social contract it did i give up my right to walk through an old growth forest and eat whatever i want to eat like who said that they would leave a law about that totally i mean the reality is that mushrooms and other 2nd thoughts absences were all criminalized kind of in cns series over the course of the late sixtys and commenting with the controlled substances act and act 78. 00 which is the current scheme that controls drug regulation and specifically illegal criminalization in the United States so it was kind of pulled into this wave of anti drug sent a man in the sixtys and seventys that was directed primarily at black people mexican people and hippies the Antiwar Movement was using psychedelics as we know and thats a huge part of what kind of was put into this category of dangerous drugs even though the research at the time was very limited and didnt actually show the dangers and now we can see years later that the research is in fact showing that the policy in the 1st place was not based on evidence of harm it was actually based on Political Considerations and those are kind of the things i wind weaving now so were seeing the research. And prove some of these considerations and stigma but its definitely the on the research to. Look like you want to jump in on that one too. Yeah i wanted to say that you know these laws werent based on science ray and i think that one of the things that these laws and the risk that taking psychedelics and it being illegal it also effects your mindset going into the experience and so a lot of people talk about oh my shows are bad because you could have a bad trip and its really scary and all this stuff but honestly if we start if the decriminalisation and de stigmatise ation movement keeps moving forward then. You know i think people will have less of these fears in their head going into the experience and therefore they can have you know better more beneficial experiences when theyre actually on mushrooms and that can help them if they integrate it correctly and keep processing it to be more fulfilled happier more productive all these things we talk about people we have another comment from our community this is from kyle boller from my Psychedelics Today lets be realistic places like Denver Colorado have decriminalized still so ive been taking mushrooms in places like oakland and in Santa Cruz California have decriminalized all planned medicines such as i was still tired and i think this is a. Decision in the right direction for drug policy i dont think people should be getting arrested for consuming these substances they can be very powerful and theres definitely risks but i think we can do a better job at Harm Reduction and education you know people have been finding ceiling to building do you can use their spirituality through these substances and i support columns of liberty so you know people want to explore their minds in a safe way im all for that. As well just as a warning here were coming up toward the end of the shows we dont have long left but you give us an outlook on whats going to happen this fall i know that people in d. C. Are going to get to vote on it i believe decriminalizing this year maybe im wrong and then maybe deeper or ties you know that but is it is it on the ballot anywhere else is this following the pathway that cannabis politically can you touch on those things since in some ways if in some ways now so with respect to the local efforts there are in the deep prioritization or become known as ation means that in those cities theres no enforcement about that about these laws but the states can still in force criminal law and. The lies are and so its ive been a nice a stairway changing at the state level i havent yet so in d. C. In d. C. Is voting on a some way to measure to what passed in oregon in santa cruz to do prioritize or decriminalize the plants themselves but there is actually a vote happening in oregon an initiative. By p. 34. 00 i believe which would be legalizing solar side and services its interesting because i think 34. 00 does not get criminalize so aside and itself it only legalize and regulate sell side and services for use and thats closer to what we see with cannabis today so today we have both a medical and legal schemes for adult use whats emerging at the state level for selous ive been disclosed to adult use with a few additional barriers for safety considerations around that. Rule quicker about 30 seconds where can people go to find out more information about exactly that. You can check out decriminalize it in nature and you can also check out psychedelic arts and you saw a side of Services Initiative and org an. Excellent i want to thank you as milk michele and danielle i want to thank everyone for being here today exciting subject apart you guys is going to be the fastest 45 minutes of your life by they get it up that way what a great show thank you. 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