Mobile audience how did it impact we had like this is an important part of the world and out of you know its very good at bringing the news to the world from here. Theyre welcome to the stream home edition im josh rushing sitting in for that here replaceable for me ok and im coming to you from my home today in Fairfax Virginia and i have a question for you well 1st lets talk about youre watching us on you tube look over here see that box right there thats actually a light you tube chat and we have a stream producer there now waiting for your comments in your questions so look at them to me and i can get into the panelist during the show so i hope that you engage here and that youre actually a part of this with us and do it right there in that box ok now i have a question for you right off the top of the show who wants to live in a full on police state with with complete surveillance powers right now for those of you who are on the fence i want to show you a video on my computer here check this out let me start this at the beginning this is what a Police State Looks Like these are scenes coming out of Portland Oregon recently those are a crowd of american citizens exercising their constitutional right to gather in protest you can see them being beaten with baton means charge that by police and Police Vehicles i mean if youre worried about attack against america or americans the calls coming from inside the house that this is what it looks like let me take you to another video real quick this ones gone viral recently and we put the van video. What are you doing heres your words what are you doing. Doing wrong heres the wurtz from. What is going on we need to know who are you are you trippin she wants you out whats your name ok youre finally gets you out bro with her we got you friend we got you here the picture in the world the media would be called they got disappearing a citizen its deadly serious but at the same time just watching police dressed up like their delta force of putting someone in the vehicle of choice for soccer moms makes us realize how ridiculous they are and of course all this really is about silencing protests right so surveillance is a tool used by the powerful to as one of our guests will say today immunize governments from the forces of change so dont look to those same governments to do something about it in fact heres what President Trump thinks about whats going on in portland right now. More federal Law Enforcement that i can tell you in portland theyve done a fantastic job theyve been there 3 days and they really have done a fantastic job in a very short period of time no problem they grant him lot of people in jail their leaders these are advocates these are not protesters people say protests and these people are baracus these are people that hate our country and were not going to let it go forward and ill tell you what the governor and the mayor and the senators out there theyre afraid of these people so do you want him knowing everything about you where youre going when youre going who youre talking to what youre planning to do what can we do about it were joined by in exciting panel of guests today to talk about exactly that and im going to ask them to introduce ourselves themselves and begin with silky in london. Hi yes im so call im the director of big brother watch with a privacy and Civil Liberties organization. And i think silky i appreciate that and claire in washington d. C. Hi im Claire Garvey im a senior associate with the center on privacy and Technology Based at georgetown law we focus on the relationship between privacy and new technologies particularly as the impact historically vulnerable communities in a course in the open i focused on portland thats getting a lot of big news where i live here in the states but this is an issue all over the world from portland to d. C. To london to where my next guest is sitting in Hong Kong Mary communities yourself sure hi everyone i mean its very high on the home base a whole call among course of course. As thats here since last june to clearly. Whats known as the. City and how is that what summers and you are there on the front lines of what a massive protest now for what a couple couple years that can be going on that long in hong kong can you tell us what it were some of the surveillance techniques that police had been using and how people have been trying to protect themselves from the. Yeah we see the surveillance photo of the official and unofficial tines so balance the high tech and lower tech kind so that lets take a look at places they are using a lot of the video cameras to their home protesters process why as a way to keep iraq what was for themselves i think also to send a very clear message people are being watched and so even if you have no entirely kiesel assembly. Technically unlawful because the police have not wanted or not that we should say that since needs to on submission to process these 48 but thats the way it is comb the law who assembly they were for example sat in front where them someplace else having the same every Single Person about to go in there and that sends a very very clear signal that the police the right to press charges and the next day even if the Assembly Remains entirely peaceful. The police often have also over the past year cracked into thousands of digital devices found that they come to states and from. People protesting as activists souness i. Have been arrested and in many cases this is recorded. And documented as well as in question this practice in the judicial review the police have actually used very think warrants to such a sensually to search their own have says where the phones a few 1000000 cases and so thats one way the chance that get access to one of them and nation and then finally i think we also have a very low tech kind of surveillance right now especially in light of the National Security law that was just and all that in all of this money that i think. People is instigating this is. Way but snitching when people are reporting and calling out cully and so activism even members and saying you know these people are suspect of violence so thats a metaphor very low to every. So many players that there would have we seen in the u. S. With some of the mass of black life matters protests that happen another in drone aircraft surveillance and you know what what are they doing here. We have heard about the use of drones there is of course the use of cameras as well. Now a lot of Law Enforcement agencies in us have a clip most of their officers with body cameras the aspect about this that im particularly concerned about but we have very Little Information about is the use of face recognition as a tool to identify who is at these protests we know that over half of all American Adults are in face recognition databases that are accessible or searched by Law Enforcement and the question really becomes are Law Enforcement agencies using the strains that they have from videos from photographs from even protest videos and photos posted to social media to try to identify the individuals at these protests heres why its so concerning in the u. S. Theres a very strong. Relationship between the right to anonymity and the 1st amendment right to speech protest assembly the Supreme Court said anonymity is a shield from the tyranny of the majority while face recognition is a tool to be anonymised people participating in 1st amendment protected activity so we do not have concrete evidence theres a huge lack of transparency around the use of this tool but it is a huge concern here. We have is going is it is good or gabriel this is paetec is modern warfare against protest. Basi primarily used by russian the trumpet ministration i would argue is more broad than that its ok why was this such a. Such a threat. Its a huge threat because the mere fact of this type of surveillance is towards having a Chilling Effect and so you know that youre being watched and thats certainly the case if you turn up a protest with a facial recognition van weve actually had that in the u. K. The u. K. After say is one of the worst Surveillance States in the democratic world and actually. Rivals china for the amount of surveillance cameras that we have a person we have around 6000000 cameras in this country is about one for every 10 people who are an incredibly watch nation and then when you hire long that kind of surveillance at protests youre telling people that theyre being watched and to put this into context. We have a very authoritarian history actually of of surveillance in the u. K. Of protest where weve had spotted cards being you to identify organizes a lot of infiltration we had for example place offices using the identities of dead children to create fake personas infiltrate peaceful environmental groups and race equality groups even the family of the grieving family of a murdered boy in in the u. K. In the ninetys was in for traits by Undercover Police offices who acted as their friends sometimes even as romantic partners and basically collected information on them and. So we have in that context where surveillance is used to prevent social movements from advancing and to deter people from taking part and sometimes to criminalize people. This as a clear effect on the kind of society that we live in and i would argue the extent to which we can really call ourselves a democracy. And i know you must have noticed that i stole your line in my intro from the preinterview that. Its meant to immunize governments from the forces of change keep the roof on the. Yeah i think the aim of. Heavy surveillance of protests i was really thinking about this watching the intro and what trump was saying about how you know describing people is as an a case to hate their country nothing could be further from the truth especially if you look at the that lives not a movement where people are striving for equality for fairness for the principles that the United States is built upon and we can never be complacent about values in society or about what kind of whoa whoa what kind of country wants become in a lot of social events at the moment are striving towards those goals the purpose of having this all sorts hereon oppressive surveillance is to stop that and to to tear it and to create obstacles and obstructions and and really using these surveillance instruments of of power. To preserve the status quo. Its not about security its not so bad now actually dealing with criminals its about preserving and its a cool power 11. 00 thing id add on that is that its interesting in u. K. Of recovered in a state like many other countries of Emergency Powers one main power remains in the u. K. Because a lot down is more or less lifted its a restriction of gatherings and this is the time when that close matter is growing massive names are Mental Movement is going message me but you can be. Criminalized you can be arrested you can be prosecuted just for going on a protest yet you can go to go to cinema you can go to work but we can to is exercise your right to freedom of expression freedom of assembly in the west fundamental democratic way. So i have a comment from joseph eddy in the u. 2 says that if theyre tracking protesters via cell phone and email communications find low tech means of communicating that cant cannot be tracked so mary and ellen hong kong theyve developed some some different ways to communicate and they also were going to pay mr bring in the the umbrella as to the protests thats a low tech response right he talked a little bit about that and in fact what i want to do mary is while youre talking or maybe after we can bring up these. I dont know what you would call them is like a different form of communication by using maybe you can describe my head im like oh my computer now we can go to make it so what were looking at here. Were looking at a new form of code essentially this came up. Earlier this month the government actually and a protest thats been rallying coal the entire movement and that goes on coal revolution times and government set this is now legal slogan because its the dishes its. Messaging and so what were seeing now is hong kong protests thats taking off the sense that its in Mainland China has long had to find ways to get around senses and what we see here. Taxes of in chinese. And those characters have now been replaced by the symbols but of course if you know what theyre supposed to save and you know that even though the symbols actually look like anything they ought to mean chasing the very message. So thats just one creates a way. That princess as a trying to get around the surveillance sets and as you mentioned. The umbrella as young as could gnat gnat gnat successfully the umbrellas. Initially not with use to protect themselves thats from tear gas and are projectiles its. Beginning to mostyn and increasingly use to shield concepts as far as. Surveillance cameras and possibly drones. He said. And often that is used for inference us is what is meant when various social spraying. Graffiti in malls or transporting. Breaks down the road to barricades and. So here i lets go to my computer one more time to share something with you this is pretty cool its called the atlas of surveillance it was put together by the Electronic Frontier foundation. Encourage people just to google doesnt go look now this is about the u. S. But there are 5300 data points in here showing all the different types of surveillance around the country its being used and you can kind of zoom in and click on it something you know to play around in wherever you live to see whats going on with with the surveillance but clear tell me what will we do about this. Thats a great question i think the main thing is to pressure on our legislators to pass laws and reinforce existing laws to make sure that this type of surveillance is not happening we would like to think that the 1st amendment protects us or the 4th amendment the right to privacy protects us against this type of surveillance and this sort of what we call perpetual lineup created by the use us face recognition for example but the reality is these technologies have largely been deployed far in advance of any sort of legislation that is a democracy it should be up to the communities that are being policed the communities on this technology is being used to decide whether or not thats appropriate and we need to get to that point i want to make one of were going to counter yes i clear im going to have a counterpoint go for it from this is from twitter and you can respond to claire since you since you have the mike its im someone who goes into the handle be humble. Seba muhammad looks like his name but i dont see why one would hide their identity while involved in peaceful protests protestors are not criminal unless they turn violent but what i support about these surveillance cameras is the possibility of tracking and fishing out of been deers from amongst the peaceful protesters. That is the point thats raised by by Law Enforcement i would actually point you to the case law in the United States saying that thats actually not what the 1st amendment says though theres a case thats sort of controversial because the plaintiff was the k. K. K. K. K. K. Won the right in a couple of states to wear their hoods during Peaceful Assembly and protest why not because the Law Enforcement didnt have a right to or didnt have an interest in knowing who those people were not because communities were did not feel threatened by the masked. K. K. K. Members walking to their communities but that the 1st amendment right of yes even deeply unpopular deeply wrong ideals held by the k. K. K. Are protected under the right the 1st amendment and that includes their right to wear a hood so that they are not identified so let me bring in this is from someone in our community named Joslin Mcdonald approaches this guy but youre going to make up check it out this is actually pretty critical. For about a year now i think conducting workshops where teach progress against how official detection and facial Recognition Systems work so they can alternately go and undermine the systems using make up and facial coverings that were as been greatly inspired by recent maker trends that you know seelys art is really personable open terms of artistry and sculpture and i thought you know what if we could use the same techniques that make up artist using to make really compelling looks to ultimately undermine the power efficient missions ability to detect a face and at least as a member station with various communities about the increasing reach of surveillance into all of our daily lives. So lets go to our web site check out my computer this is some of the stuff hes talking about you know from an artistic perspective this seems really beautiful and cool but from a practical perspective of. It i mean one just practical where wearing this out and i can imagine in the heat to just melt but to doesnt this kind of make you just pick out in a way that you were hoping to to not in the 1st place look you like is this is a practical. Yeah plainly no but i agree its very beautiful and i love the way the. Artists are engaging with countersurveillance in d a way that i dont expect in and havent seen before i completely agree with claire we need legislative to do something i actually think we need rather cool popular action and the responsibility is on all of us and the responsibility is on everyone watching this because if youre watching this youve got an interest in it and you know i think the alarm bells have been ringing d on surveillance especially in the u. K. And the u. S. God knows whole goal for some time and when our very Pivotal Point in time where the world is changing rapidly the technological revolution is taking pace is the greatest i would suggest change the any society has probably ever been through i think this is far more drastic than the Industrial Revolution and we have very limited time we have this. A short window of time in which to set the norms for what the future is going to look like for us and future generations and there is a great chance that and certainly there are economic incentives to build this kind of small its surveillance grid in which we are tracked we are watched and any operations you know pursuit and thats the nightmare we we dont want to live in thats why we called big brother watch and i think is fundamentally hostile to democracy said this is the time to be taking action and speed resisting surveillance and some big taking radical action like banning facial recognition thats the way thats what it is that actually this is not something that will feature in democracies. So the question becomes though that if we can take a legislative route that sounds fine for you can us what do you do if your new authoritarian regime where you may not have that option open to you to marry thats what youre seeing on the streets there right what are the options there be options are increasing clinics that are saying. To. You to come in we were looking only at why Peace Process that should be worried about something thats what they are that. Even the most hes for us even if it was just standing outside a government building holding up something as simple as. As opposed to that sense who live in it or perhaps even a black. Princess do that to protest against any of the slogans that he actually get you charged on the National Security law so its a joke for intentionally many years who even thinks of us to chinas are like that is a very worrying trend and right now our whole call. Bury it less or room to push back against. Our National Security has been forced by diktats by the. So to bring another you to comment here this is from jay to. Say here in hackers were a cause of war a 1st firey spying and now it looks like governments are also stepping up for spying do we need to worry about privacy will be left after all this will privacy be left after all this and i often think like if you want to know whats going on with Technology Look at what theyre doing Silicon ValleySan FranciscoSan Francisco actually banned the use of facial Recognition Technology amazon has put a pause on their facial rick Recognition Technology until they get clear clear guidance from the government the problem is when you have Tech Companies looking to the u. S. Government for guidance the u. S. Government the least the body that makes those laws the congress is full of really very very well wealthy mostly white old men who arent particularly tech savvy so i dont know how you you chazan that are you how do you get over that channel but somebody needs to realize whats happening and i think voices like all of yours today helped bring this conversation to the forefront that the people really need to consider what this means for them and their society for our guest i want to thank you all for being here today and for everyone watching i hope you take this morning wonder what you can do about it as well. Mexicos kind of the 1000 death toll is one of the one time with one in 5 of its inhabitants living in the capital with the deadly upset enough to pull off a 1000000 visitors every day is really no way to take 33 guards without for. All has the governments unorthodox strategy lead to unnecessary suffering frontline mexico the fight against kind of 19. And we will get a feel of it if they dont. They seem to plug in a simple single. Person shot where to die and i was just there. To. Show documentaries from around the world about those who wont give up their fight for justice. Aljazeera selects justice. I was taken to prison in just knowledge that i was being a trained one yes or just me old mother in the father of my dojo i eat lunch here. When parents are imprisoned the government doesnt have any plans for the trigger lifted behind so this shouldnt need food they need shelter they are searching for love. My passion is to see that this should be no prisoners also given another chance to live for making them which it is because theyre not a party to that crimes committed by their parents when i finally get to the place to build a home for these children and they see them become somebody used to fall into society fending for themselves. To give me satisfaction. Retaliation from beijing as it or does the closure of a u. S. Consulates and china. I know that i missed all the details on this as aljazeera live from dark also coming up drama in the skies over syria as a u. S. Fighter jet intercepts on a rainy and passenger plane. To have a Big Convention is not the right time donald trump scraps a Major Republican Party convention as u. S. Coronavirus cases possible media