Virus grips the nation campaigning on the election trail has been forced to take a back seat will the president ial candidates ever hit the road and so their brand of politics to americans before the vote follow the u. S. Election on a. Well i mean and as a by john go to war again both sides blame each other for the fighting on the border come their decades of animosity the result is a tussle. Hello and welcome to the program on iran can its a conflict with roots dating back to the collapse of the soviet Union Armenia and azerbaijan have been in dispute over the new going to cut about region for decades its recognized internationally as part of azerbaijan but controlled by Ethnic Armenian forces there war ended in a cease fire in 1994 but theres been regular battles near the border ever since both accuse each other triggering the latest artillery bombardment and drone attacks north of no going to back fighting since sunday has killed at least 16 people mostly soldiers on both sides but at least one civilian 2 as aversions president has sacked the foreign minister accusing him of meaningless negotiations with armenia robin forestay walker reports. Large crowds of protesters in baku demanding the government declares war on media some demonstrators managed to Enter Parliament early on wednesday and were dispersed. The crowds are highly unusual in tightly controlled azerbaijan an indication of the National Mood was. An army general was one of the 11 as ery servicemen killed in 3 days of fighting on the border with armenia the armenian government reports the deaths of 4 personnel. The latest fighting is north of the disputed territory of nagornokarabakh internationally recognized as part of azerbaijan its controlled by Armenian Forces some 30000 people died in the regional war between the former soviet republics in the 1990 s. As a by john has accused armenias Prime Minister nicole passion yan of undermining longstanding peace talks chaired by the socalled o. S. C. E minsk group on wednesday a lol in the fighting allowed monitors to observe damage to civilian homes. I mean years Foreign Ministry told aljazeera that deescalation was now the priority or is not an alternative there is no alternative to the basic set marry me. And work towards the escalation and establishing an environment which helps an atmosphere which helps. East and we share favor stage. This is the biggest escalation since a 4 day conflict in april 26th seen that saw some 200 People Killed russia and iran have offered to mediate pataki says it stands with azerbaijan unless the renewed fighting can be resolved the risk of a wider conflict remains robin 1st year walka al jazeera. Lets introduce the panel in these airy capital back who commands hygeia assistant to the president of azerbaijan and here of the capital of armenia are signing up their former advisor to our many as a Prime Minister and here in doha abraham fry at associate professor of conflict resolution at the Doha Institute a welcome to you all i want to begin in back who with. Youve been very clear the youve said that this is armenia undermining and thats the word youve used any peace treaties any negotiations when it comes to in the going to occur about what do you say that theyre saying to you and i also welcome everyone and actually army as a region conflict started with the illegal use of force by armenia acquiring number of car bombs and 7 and just on the regions of azerbaijan and physically are we going to territories are theres a military occupation of foreign media and i was aware john has a 1000000 or more i. D. P. s and refuses answer since a meet ninetys we have a negotiation process and which continues and we are going to see where regime lets just wait is not a peace unfortunately we have an attendance here and armenian size i mean inside tries to hide its all behind the scenes where if you and you and next there is of other way john and we also see a little activities we also see a little settlement is it or quieter it is of azerbaijan and we also have been a little cream work of the negotiation process hasnt your final act and United NationsSecurity Council resolutions constitute a little political framework was a resolution of the council it which demands immediate unconditional and who is wrong for a minute to terms are quite directories we also howard was in the music group ruled him out of the negotiation process so a concert is based on a step by step step by step it is allusion to the council this is a key element here is of mr all of armenian troops from my directors azerbaijan a step by step approach and also return of azerbaijan an idea presented in egypt why did a certain years living as an idea piece. Exult from their moms was an oral concept of the negotiation process unfortunately when it came to power we had an expectation bad is going to toot cool feel different or pursue different political and gender resins in a previous and governments of armenia unfortunately we see where pushing on statements contradictory statements undermining the formats im also substance of the negotiation process armenia also tries to evade is responsibility for that occupation and aggravation they have committed against in azerbaijan and also d tries multiple field isnt even obligations was a music group process and its an undermining the process is a meantime its in a disrespect as a musical process and also a Wide International community and in general as a result of this conflict i always causes a question to my armenian colettes from the to this whom we have in a discussion what armenia has achieved as a result of the answer to that let me just its not a question lets put that question to our son the current term hes in here of on the capital of armenia as a former advisor to armenia as Prime Minister its all your fault says our guest in dhaka what do you make of that. Well thank you very much for this opportunity i also want to welcome all of the of course our viewers and very interested in the region in fact quite surprised about the faults talking about our faults now i dont actually understand how one can talk about faults when just about 5 minutes ago we did hear the foreign minister other budgets threatening possible bombing of the Nuclear Plant in that area i mean were not talking about a number of kind of right now were talking about star in our military who are talking internationally recognized borders of armenia what i want to make very clear this is not just another escalation when i mean yeah thats in fact this is a very clear and direct threat to democracy this is a spirit of democracy and this isnt a get attack against that marcy that were trying to build beyond we had in 2800 i mean you know it went through one of the biggest and the most major change its 3 recent history. This was a 2800 bell that revolution which brought about the most legitimate government in the country since the mid ninetys and we are undertaking a large agenda if we forms we have a very particular government here going through a lot of painful changes inside the country but the people and the countries in their neighborhood this body regimes since since seem to be quite nervous about what i have a feeling here what were seeing here is internal issues in azerbaijan that is triggering you to start and to figure out a create and not simply we dont ians fueling i mean of all the up tried to do right its on public to actually draw attention or diverged from the real and the serious issues that we believe the country will have and had asked we had we had corrupt regime now it starts we know how it works we know our hardest to be able to actually handle a regime like that however i mean yeah a young democracy or a country with a reformist government has no reason to attack and what were seeing from our other by joe nickell needs there or from other agenda is how did things did 1000000 population so intimate relation be reduced into territory proper of armenia shouting and sending buttons and rockets already for 4 or 5 minutes what were saying and were committed and our foreign minister said you can be very clear yes that we are committed to the Peace Process we believe that the format of the negotiations where russia United States and france are quote chairing. The means group is the only implemented. To continue constructive negotiations between the parties come back to negotiations table why are you referencing why are you sending but if youre going to continue with this language obviously youre going to receive an answer and response this is impossible this time lets talk about lets talk about the negotiations lets bring in our guest in. What youre hearing from your of is that i mean is on his way to being a beacon of demarc. Say in the region and actually its surrounded by despotic regimes such as yours that are making that more difficult as a base art has just sacked its foreign minister saying the negotiations were meaningless why arent you going back to the negotiating table so wholesome ocracy i believe is in a lawsuit but i mean you cant talk about an arson how to also joined question else government bans and after words have been sacked and currently whats in a building in azerbaijan is an evolution of the dictatorship and also at the forum in your claims for the democracy and democracy doesnt conduct ethnic cleansing and occupation too and as a country and whats going on internally in armenia and we see where entire political system is in crisis jordan at least lateesha urns and giant arms address the deficit in general description of the army a socalled revolution not a dictatorship and what they are is to use a recent incident what happened is a border area between army and azerbaijan is a year and hours or illustration of the hypocrisy of armenian governments persecute on one side or pointed it is of azerbaijan they took up arms in a piece from when i was a sight on a deliberate manner as they act in a border area between 2 countries thats an army and also conduct that not tourist ethnic koreans in in that continent of europe after the 2nd world war i guess are we going to see billions and we also see in 2016 when armenia deliberately in a discriminate manner and act as a witness who really us is a wooded area whats irrational because from other words in a prescriptive youre claiming went away and has started it was a wouldnt have started militarily it makes sense for us a way john to Start Operation is a no want to carve out an area to liberate our occupied territories whats in a sense to start an operations of the area but i know the answer to this let me know as much as our spirit doesnt question let me ask you were approached by yes i was a you know i has. Said these negotiations are meaningless. In general were so to years in which it is indeed an initiation process every time we see where armenian side tries to create an agility technical elements to a transit sponsibility one days events this change of karma and as these this event we dont have in wyoming can use it as a piece next days event lets talk about confidence Building Measures my question is and i dont you know quite editors of was away john you cannot. Physically army an army forces in this hold until it is a puzzle way john you have an estate responsibly that under International Law these are your troops and general having a settlement is a conflict process is not deserving of the council it is not is wrong you troops are we can have a settlement is a process but. I will come back here in just one moment but i want to bring in our guest in doha. Professor conflict resolution of the day are in sochi youve taken a close look at the role of both russia and turkey in this conflict to keep powers within the region that still havent managed to actually bring about a satisfactory resolution to the conflicts are they making more trouble. Or are they serious partners for peace between these 2 countries i think this is a very important question and its very important we look at the conflict not only from the lenses of a conflict that we are not mean or not as it began but from the white that a lot of job situation regional situation and particularly the rule of russia number one and also the reality russia is known as the be a major player in this conflict is a trying to manage the conflict between. Its former colonies in you know and i mean i was a. Part of it and im sure is a major supplier of arms door hasnt returned but also. A close ally with the media as the and bar or. C. S. Door couldnt have secured that Treaty Organization that russia needs and i mean has been frustrated with not receiving that support that aspires to see from russia and national russias trying to manage this situation and theres also that in case theres all that shabby and sending these keeping and ward forces which would be seen as an Occupying Force as which what the answers are no concern of mine so it is definitively that i should or here is seriously impacting a conflict between the 2 and also there is no security component between demeaning and duty as you know with that historical arrival we had as the nickel. Conflict between the door partners and i mean you know from Security Point of your seeing yourselves being sandwiched between 2 images as a regime. And duty and dont you already did not disappear door declare its position and support of azerbaijan saw that took ish also as important and here we have also that dirty russia model emerged in the last few years of that induction of diction in syria and now will work in the government thats now dogs and now and now also theyre working together and leave. To come up with an arrangement and who last saw this could be extended this conflict between and to be known as a region where russia and to keep could come plus together and try to manage and of course there is also always a concern about this external and that vision as to what extent that barely trying to resolve the conflict or to mean day in order to keep their interest and the situation while the one on one 3rd letting a rhyme lets bring in their spring i guess and yerevan him back in because its actually quite a Crucial Point they were intimate originally for the lets bring lets bring in her shortly but let me just ask you a question. The question i think youre about to answer anyway how useful is the russian role how you saw the turkish role as a weapon as a Strategic Partnership relations was a russia and the neighboring country and russia is also one of the quit your countries is immune termed as a way young hasnt asked about this new partnership and. You know that it wouldnt cause relations brussel of ties with the turkey but here is a professor also mentioned sharmeen in the relation that i was awake and no one actually seeking intimate its words in armenia armenia is also in a seeking enmity was other countries why isnt borders on the turkey was armenia close because in 1000 street when armenia launched by a commuter orphans of one its territory on our way john oquinn cabbage originally was away john using his her i. Q. In the charter to you cause its in order because innocent aggressor state and its owner is old of armies on occupational calls about army becoming a so isolated country therefore we see where that in general turkey and russia can play it all full as it is a lot of the council of russia is also a member of the oyster emus group process and also sharing illusions baseball of the countries and historical answer the original real for now is a time for me a mixin a to say that is your choice i mean what you have achieved as a result of this conflict come to solve isolated country is a big demographic problems economic social challenges lets get lets get the opportunities as are the current interest was in the everything that is. A sun what is your response. Well its. Theres a speaker of former speaker of the Foreign Ministry probably an old white house if i dont know fisher like which is 5 i dont know but i can just with this rhetoric viewers and i want to i have to i have to make a couple of comments professor its not a conflict between turkey and armenia its the Armenian Genocide its political geography that were currently living in and of course big players making deals and making the border its that levy leaving the problem that comes with it and thats created by Joseph Stalin and. In a letter to turkey is indeed part of this hes the only country in the big player in the region that has been directly backing. By john and its aggressive moves in fact the Foreign Ministry made a statement openly saying that it will be betting azerbaijan on any growth or stop we expect possibly see a similar recipe behavior from totally stop if possible role as a independent mediator is our question for us now is getting a lot of the accusations of of the democratic process the democratic process i understand and there. Are white afraid that the similar situation can come around in as their project and this regime that exists in but who may have the same destiny as the clock to crack a question that we have not been yeah i know its going to be i dont its going to be tough and what would came around as a as a fact was state orchestrated then especially 2 days ago in but when i give a try to teach people who the patio im an awful big empire in an ocean you refuse our nation for war in fact well as i think you all went out. The side it wasnt resignation of your own cabinet mean birds who arent up to their part of your own parliament so my giving is that probably one thing is not be all you can get. Happened and you know their budget democracy and the revolutionary process might end up coming to your art so be coaches that arent quite clearly understand that the article doesnt really qualify orioles are examples of great games and i was away. On the air thats what your the floor is or please respond are you worried that youre about to be talkers and on the way i wasnt into a lot and soon i was away john it was always an interesting is in a stable and what in a people is a city its a had in a just cause and anger because as a way you know People Special i. D. P. s and if you use our time so to years they want to return back to their homes as a result of that occupational annecy or armenia and youll go on and they cant return to your homes lisbie as a response ability armenia is in a country where bears in a state as possible the polls at will is of occupation and as a Regional Power that went as a city and they demanded justice and also tired about certain years negotiation process goes on this is a music group process but it is of any practical result that isnt it icarus usually happens that region and you may also claims to have turkey in your constitution you havent a territorial claims against in a cherokee and you are considering it as a part of the great armenia that is a narrative yet you are building your now youngsters and was at enmity towards your neighbors and you have recently your government your government i mean your previous government you also part of the question in government and what it knew that. You are you know that he took the fall come into law well let me just ask it was originally let israel and our son as on the. Very quickly. As a vote on this table this is not about the fair of the government being toppled as you said what your response to that is very quickly. Well my feeling is that some of my colleagues say that i mean this Prime Minister actually it is more popular not their budget and then im here as a democratic leader im sure its not actually democracy its the human rights and aspirations for freedom of speech and other liberties that youre a citizen so right now and this is the reason why are people are going to be out in the streets and we see youre our president yesterday has been talking about only a 150 people are going to be coming volunteers to go to the war nor are we going to your people not want war what we want is to go back to the negotiations and. I would have to make one more and specially when it comes to the confidence Building Measures you get there in your administration that kind of agree or better monitoring of the borders why are you refusing at nap youre now coming to me and accusing us of lets pull those confidence Building Measures lets let money course along the border line lets have International PeopleInternational Observers and harvest beyond the border and then we saw 100 years of conflict we had not all cut up thats about the conflict lets talk about conflict resolution there are enough right in doha having heard the conversation here tonight between our guests and your of and in back who its clear that there are intractable entrenched positions here what can be done if turkey and russia can bring the 2 sides of the negotiating table what else can be done clearly its not down to the americans maybe the french is there an International Process so theres. Thank you we used to say about the conflict between the israelis and the policy as a piece of process process without peace but unfortunately in this conflict the peace of process is not nor p. Is not even theres not even a process so which is even worse the starting point would be action from the minsk group though as the main school that has been in this conflict since like the 94 and brought absolutely nothing no changes nor progress we need to look into the role of the miss goold and to see on what yes and what business there are many are doing and maybe to need to find them and it out of this a group in order to be. More effect than you can imagine how russia and the United States are going to make peace i mean the there is they have really bad relations between everywhere so i how are we expecting the russian and their uniteds theres that time but ministration to make peace and as and be sure and i mean we need to look into this also that duly that is that all governments between i mean and azerbaijan there definitely me a bit differently talk but they dont negotiate that negotiation process has proved to be pointless nor progress has been made either so we this is not the 1st the clash we had the clash in 2016 there whats wonderful to be awarded when that will but theres also been before that there are several docs took that we need more meaningful dialogue between the 2 parties to engage and see as they a log so they can we can hopefully look into this and i agree that confidence building bridges are very important there are starting point but we cant stop there i mean this is that the wars the stump and make the united forward and not serious changes have been mia so i think engaging in a meaningful dialogue meaningful negotiation with the 2 parties are willing to make painful concessions on both sides there is no negotiation where one party. Achieved you know or what it wants but the do part of this we need to make this been for concessions on both sides i think we cant be you know talking about. Improvement and one last thing we have to keep in mind for peace to happen between the 2 parties that couldnt lead the 2 candidates are losing the status quo is not going to be john because the did it to resign but that i mean and well dont but also i mean it is losing a lot of what we call the opportunity cost of conflict this whole comic development and is unable to meet c. D. S. Economic possibility because of the conflict so whats this have to realize that the art of losing a lot the start is not in their favor and opposite hope is not Sustainable Well that reason they have to make it a just this is. A fascinating educational discussion thanks to all our guests. Our son and abraham for hat and thank you too for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website out is there at dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page as facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story and you can also join the conversation on twitter we are at a. J. Inside story for me and long car and the whole team here and life and. What is the price of luxury. An Undercover Team travels deep into the illegal cocoa plantations of the ivory coast Simple Solutions are very hard to find for something as complicated as the child labor. Chocolates heart of darkness encounters unpaid child labor is working in a 100000000000. 00 industry well over half of the countrys cocoa produces live below the poverty line coming soon. Tens of thousands of filipino nurses are saving american lives during the cold 19. They came to the u. S. For a better life but at what cost. 101 east investigates and just. The traffickers a truce follows that psychology and emotions from the very beginning until the very end the trade in human flesh is big business. And wealthy western nations are implicated how can a girl from albania know her way to answer you know how to run to win the must be an organized crime gang sex slaves episode 2 of slavery a 21st century evil on aljazeera. The earth. And their records a 1000000 cases of coronavirus but many fear the actual number could be much higher to more than 2000000 in brazil where hospitals are very breaking. Im given al this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up a court battle of a mouse an american governor chance to stop them becoming compulsory in public. The u. S. Tells the European Union it should do more to tackle those defying the u. N. On