Fraternity build a house next Door Community spirit is tested to its limits. We were exactly welcomed with open arms into the neighborhood hard to just bury the history of hate the south a witness documentary on aljazeera. In the bars against coded 19 malaysian authorities are targeting migrant workers. If this is the protective bars control discrimination. Hi im Steve Clements and i have a question what is racism and is there really any way to get rid of it in any society lets get to the bottom line. We have a special guest with us today at a young age hes turned black American Academic studies on their head arguing that racism is about bad policies not about bad people not about bad ideas he says that the only way to beat racism is for each and every one of us whether white black or brown to look into our hearts and confess our personal bigotry and prejudice and actively become anti racist he is even x. Can be one of the nations foremost scholars on racism and hes just been tasked with building the center for Antiracist Research that Boston University here in thank you so much for joining us i know you have a new book coming out and it is called antiracist baby id love to understand based on you know what youve done and how to be an antiracist youre reaching further what are you trying to do with this new book that youre releasing. I think its a tool for for parents and guardians and caretakers and teachers to begin nurturing in raising the youngest of people to to to be antiracists to record. Human equality to see conditions as problems not necessarily people to value all the different skin colors and you know the young people may not be able to fully understand race and racism especially if theyre 6 months or or one years old but we oftentimes teach 3 months old a 9 month old in one and a half euro children about come to Sophisticated Concepts like love and and kindness and the older they grow the more they understand it and i think that we should be doing the same thing with with racism and we should know that our kids are not colorblind were not deliberately raising them to be racist and they were not deliberately i should say raising them to be antiracist in society is raising them to the races but what i found is so powerful about the notion of reaching children because youre also reaching their parents in the process and you and i have talked about this before that we come back and i came back in with a certain you know assumptions from my parents in the community and i now look back at and i see oh my god that that was entirely just in cairo the racist frame at the time i didnt know it so i want to applaud you for doing it but id like you to tell our audience a little bit about the frame of racism that has been baked into us and what you believe we need to proactively do to undo those frames. Theres so many aspects of the frame i mean 1st and foremost people who believe that a racist is essential to who a person is in a racist is an essentially a bad person and that it it is a pejorative attack term when indeed the term racist is a descriptive term it describes when a person is saying a racist idea when they when theyre doing so theyre being races in the very next moment if theyre supporting an antiracist policy they being antiracist so its a descriptive term describes what a person is or what have i should say what a person is doing and then i think people are also taught to deny their own racism in the way they deny their racism is when theyre challenges for being racist they typically say im not racist and so the term the construct of im not racist has always been the sort of sound of this denial and ive been encouraging americans to realize where theyre being raised this story and terrorists well when you hear hear about cases that we see now in the news before us you know george floyd being murdered Briana Taylor rashard brooks recently in atlanta this is now in front of us in video over and over and over again people of color that have been killed and while i know your book is about so much more than that i would love to know what you think we need to do as a society to at least begin moving the needle when it comes to the way we think about security and policing. Well i mean in how to be an antiracist in particular sort of examine the fact that ok what are our policies what are the outcomes of our policies or our policies leading to Racial Equity and justice or they leading to racial inequality or injustice the current policing policies what effect are they having what outcome or are they having and we know that the outcome they are having not only from from the data but also from the videos the outcomes are injustice and any even inequities in which you take a city like minneapolis where black people are about 20 percent of the citys population the more than 60 percent of the people subjected to Police Shootings thats with parity thats a problem theyre policing policies that are leading to that that need to be changed and i think that the way we go about doing that is realising that the people arent the problem that the policies of the problem and we can change policy if we recognise them as the problem do you think though i mean im just want to challenge you a little bit at out on that that you know if we change policy i talk to val demings the other day about creating an office of Law Enforcement standards do you think that will kill stop that officer from killing george floyd or sticking his you know. His knee in is next i mean i i guess that notion about policies i just you know i and i and ive read much of what youve written about this really isnt a bad people problem but i see bad people out there and im just want to challenge you a little bit to help me understand what you are what youre meaning well. Again i dont think that changing policies are going to necessarily result in this. Necessarily result in no Police Officer you know ever using lethal force you know ever again but when they do there could be a reaction or that they can think twice because they know black amars are just as protected as is as white lies so they will resist or choose not to do something that maybe they would have done in a different policy environment and so their inclination is to continue new george floyd on the net but there is a conscious recognition that something will happen to them that is bad if they continue to do so so then they stop not necessarily because they are antiracist not necessarily because they value life but they value their own job they value their own career in the mines that we have a list to see now that if our youth or lives you know i when you and i have spoken in the past i talked about growing up in the military in the air force and my parents were supporters of a guy named George Wallace a lot of folks dont know torvald hes one of the worst racists in American History and its something i hadnt realized until i got off. As an adult that that deeply disturbed me that went through and it created my own process of being introspective about what that meant and how it had been you know it hijacked some of my views im interested in you you also look the fact that the we all walk around with these racist frames what is a process that you recommend for people to get into their their frames and into their souls like you know i did in the conversation about this horrible politician and my past. So i think to the fine terms 1st and foremost and so we should be able we should define what a racist idea is and what a racist policy is and then we have to be willing to admit our own racist ideas based on the its clear and consistent definition in the way we interrogate whether we have any racist ideas is very simply to take any Racial Disparity whether its black people disproportionately dying of kogan 19 or black people disproportionately incarcerated or that the next immigrants disproportionately deported and ask ourselves why is this the case and were only going to really come to 2 types of answers one answer is going to say theres a problem with society theres a problem with racist policies theres a problem with the conditions and the other answer will say theres a problem with the people that but the next people are being disproportionately deported because theyre animals and rapists black people who are disproportionately dying of coping 1000 because they dont take it seriously or theres something long with the way in which they take care of their health black people are disproportionately incarcerated people say because they have they are more criminal like all my myall and these are racist ideas and so i think its critical for us to interrogate our own ideas in even you know by asking us questions of why disparities exist in versus now it. Are white people or those been in power in the power structure the only ones that are part of this racist equation can you have victims in this equation that they to themselves carry racist frames over count without question i mean to give an example i mean i think. For instance if you look at the history of poor whites poor whites have been simultaneously the victims of racist policies that disenfranchise them based on this idea that black and brown people were being disenfranchised or that prevented them from unionizing in organizing with black workers based on sort of white supremacist ideas so then affected their economic livelihood their political livelihood just as you can have a black elite who were magine that theyre being held back not by racist policies but by black poor people and they are trafficking in ideas that there is something wrong with with black poor people in and so you know i think that its critically important for us to for all of us no matter their race or or even class or gender to ensure that were seeing the problem is not racial groups of people but power and policy. Your book how to be an antiracist has shot up to the top of the New York Times bestseller charts and a lot of other books my former colleague at the atlantic tom he coached between the world and me theres been a lot of these books that have focused on racism racial identity do you think that the people buying the books are deeply interested or do you think this is a moment where theyre checking off boxes about how they feel about this. I suspect its both i certainly think there are people who see it as a fad and certainly see it as a thing to do but but i know that there are other people who who are serious there are other people who realize now that racism is a fundamental problem that can no longer be ignored that they have to learn about it the same about Police Violence and those are the people who are going to join with us to really create a different type of current. Now you have in the past it will in your book you have said we need a department of interior a system in the government we need a constitutional amendment against bigotry tell us more about that and what you have in mind i mean those sound to me like interesting and big ideas that become hard to enforce so what you have in mind there i think the spirit of those types of you know what. Publication asked me will give them a sort of. An idea completely out of left field and but really the spirit of of those oh you hate that when they do that you know exactly. And in the spirit of those proposals was that 1st and foremost mean if we were to create a nation where we defined a policy as racist based on its outcome in other words of any policy was leading to racial in equity or injustice it was defined as racists and it was seen as a policy they needed to change then i think that would make a tremendous difference because there are a lot of policies currently that are leading to racial in equity or injustice that are framed as not racist or race neutral or people dont really want to acknowledge that those are problematic policies then we also need to be regularly looking into and studying policies and there are facts and we need people within government in other perfective organizations protecting people against racist policies protecting people against the harm that comes through racist ideas. Youve become hugely popular here and in the in the communities that youre speaking to and you used to know go and speak before audiences all around the country and there are mainly white audiences today youre on soon doing exams meetings but what would those folks when you interact with them tell any of the stories that stand out in that you feel the revelations that people shared with you or the attacks came from so i think 2 things that stand out i think what seems to always stand out to me is when extremely young people you know like a 15 year old. Student who is black who had read my book and heard me speak in and came up to me afterwards in said so basically youre saying theres nothing wrong with black people. And and that all of the people who think this something all black people theyre the problem not black people and that we basically need to change the conditions and then things will be will be fine and you know for me to be like yeah you broke it on down certainly sort of stuck with me or you know 82 year old woman who said that she had no idea that she had been had that she had held racist ideas for as long as she could remember and but she didnt want to die that way you know she wanted to transform herself you know obviously those are the things that that stick with me or you know is someone who is a conservative who comes to one of my talks and just assumes by not reading my book that my work is just challenging conservatives when if anything its challenging liberals just as harshly. So thats always funny. When you when you are confronted like that you know one of the extinct things again coming back to this time george floyd an argument are brewing you know so many of the injustice weve seen people want to do something and they may not know what they what they can do and with all due respect youre saying hey look inside yourself and look at your own stereotype look at your own racism but i think a lot of people want an app or they want to checklist or they want some way to be told if they do x. Y. Z. That they will be better and they have done something that is improve the world and i know thats a simplistic take but i think a lot of people are there is there anything you think that can be done to help those kind of people who want to be well meaning but they need something a little bit less i dont know fuzzy so if you want to sort of check off a box each year one of the ways in which a person could check off a box every year is give a tremendous amount of money every year to Racial Justice organizations that are challenging racist power and policy and i think thats absolutely sort of critical i do think that people should be involved in the process of changing themselves directly involved in the process of changing their society but if they want to be removed they can certainly donate money to these organizations that are certainly on the front lines. When you when you were thinking about setting up an Academic Institution on antiracism and i know youve been at American University now youre moving to Boston University what are the key pillars that youre going to put in place that make that that will give this resilience in these times that will help people understand what the pathways are to antiracism. I think on the research and we want to be able to build teams of scholars and researchers who have sort of been organized to solve a seemingly intractable intractable racial problem and so we really start from the problem and then build skilled people from multiforme many different sort of sectors and Research Areas to essentially go about researching that problem and that then that research wouldnt just stay there it would then lead to evidence based policy solutions and so were not only sort of building these Research Teams but we also want to build teams and we want to build connections to advocates and policymakers that can allow for the production again of evidence based antiracist policies that have the capacity to reduce inequities and injustice and and there are many researchers who who want their research to make that type of impact and certainly there are many researchers like that you know id be you in and throughout this this country. Even was her incident that happened in your life that helped you to understand that inverting this question of racism or whether people said they were racist or to thinking about it in a more proactive way of reaching out saying every day or im going to reach into myself and become the opposite of that what what got you there what was the experience if if there was one that got you into that into that frame i think it was the experience of writing stampa beginning my 2nd book which was a history of racists ideas antiblack racist ideas and as i began to study the people who were producing these racist ideas i saw a person after person denying that their ideas were races so it wasnt that wasnt just the production of racist ideas there was the production of the nile and the sound of that denial was in our terms that they were not races and so you know the more i heard that and saw that and read that the more i realized that the people who also were fighting racism were also claiming that they were not races and that didnt really make sense that and then there were people who believe that there was this sort of neutrality that that you can just do nothing and if youre doing nothing youre not supporting racism when in fact to do nothing in the face of racial inequity is to allow it to persist. I think finally in light of that that answer that you just shared with us im going to be interviewing angela davis next week for this t. V. Show and im fascinated by her life and by her commitment and by her sacrifice at a time when you know i think candidly it was even tougher back then for folks to stand out than it is today thats my perspective youve been someone who has written a lot of great things about actual labor so one question is what should be my 1st question to her but tell me about your own relationship with angela davis. So i mean you know ive gotten to know her personally you know over the last few years and shes so gracious and and. And spirited and such a you know beautiful intelligent person. But i think my relationship largely but then joe davis is came from and meiring her work and in meiring her her her her sort of life or life time of struggle and oftentimes you know people now are talking about the problem of Police Violence and problem of mass incarceration but she was talking about in advocating against that problem you know since the early 1970 s. And so you know talk about someone who was ahead of their time talk about somebody who was challenging the size of the number of people being arrested long before there was mass incarceration you know its certainly you know angela davis and she was also defending black single mothers when nobody wanted to defend them she was also defending. Black obviously poor people when no one wanted to defend them and so shes really put through her public career been been defending those those people that really no one wanted to defend but she was willing to do so and i think in terms of a question. You know what does it sort of feel like. To literally be fighting literally be ahead of your time you know in so many ways. You know what does that feel like. And that finally potentially the country is catching up to where you were 40 years ago well iran x. Candy congratulations on your book about to come out about children and antiracism but i want to thank you for all the contributions you have made to those of us who need to think about this every day thank you very much for joining us youre welcome thank you so whats the bottom line i spent a long time thinking about the family i grew up in and how racist stereotypes get passed on i have to be deliberate to make sure i dont perpetuate them further and i have to be deliberate to make sure that i have a world of friends and colleagues that include people from every stripe but nobodys perfect we all still have a lot to do doing something to be antiracist can move society to a better place beyond tolerance for one another but to actual empathy and understanding and as my guest today says that requires work on all sides of the race equation and thats the bottom line. Ferguson has been in turmoil at least 2 of my police cars or not but this one during our lifetime youre. Struggling. To make a political hole in my city where you are a state representative back in 9091 to me it was all how are you one of the guys without a gun and my brother was killed my hood dont look no dear friend to any other hood out here damn my whole world was kill me i saw my son in 15 years and i felt like you know it just my time to stand up to. The system wasnt built for us im just not willing to accept what some stance though legislation can i get through thats going to speak to a major need for marketing that this bill identifies used violence as a Public Health epidemic last year we had 200. 00 murders the Ripple Effect of violence when it comes the youth it stretches far why. Do you worry when it. Dawned on president s on Donald Trump Jr was promised damaging information about Hillary Clinton obligation to seek an investigation see the troops did the Trump Campaign collude with russia did you at any time birch the former f. B. I. Director james comey in any way shape or form to close sort of back down the investigation into Michael Flynn and also as you will know. Next question bottle field washington on al jazeera. In a 2 part series. Observes the lives of 2 children. Over 20 years. Where insights into circumstances that shape lives. In a rapidly changing world. 20 years of me continues with good morning gruesome you know on aljazeera. Al jazeera. And. Hello im down jordan doha with the top stories here on aljazeera china has accused washington of interfering in its internal affairs after the us Congress Approved sanctions on beijing nervous new security law in hong kong the bill would penalize banks doing business with chinese officials who are not at the new legislation sarah clarke is in hong kong she has more on chinas response to the sanctions. Has been swift to respond its of these sanctions are moved by the United States to interfere in chinas internal affairs thats a move by the United States to contain or restrain chinas progress and development and thats as National Security is a basic prerequisite or precondition for existence and the development of a nation and these laws have widespread support not just in china and hong kong this is obviously a statement from the Chinese Government and it strongly urged washington to pretty much back off and stay out of hong kong and chinas affairs said if the United States continues to go down what its described as the wrong path then obviously china says it will take the necessary response so certainly some threats coming from china and a Swift Response and condemnation of the of chinas introduction of the bicycle the National Security laws in hong kong and reports that prodemocracy activist made some law has fled hong kong so do we know his whereabouts and what does all of this mean for the protest movement Going Forward weve had confirmation from nathan more hes revealed all released by whatsapp to the media confirmation that he has left hong kong we do not know where he is at the moment hes kept that term self but hes one of the founders of the demo system this is the outspoken or certainly
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