A cathedral then a mosque now a museum i also fear is at the heart of a legal battle to convert its stumbles emblematic monument back into a mosque but why now what purpose would it and how political is the decision this is inside story. And welcome to the program im laura its an ancient monument revered by different ideologies the centuries i also fear in turkey one of the worlds most contested buildings is creating controversy once again it was the longest christian cathedral in the east and roman empire for a 1000 years now one of the busiest Tourist Attractions in istanbul is a museum but not for much longer if techies government gets the go ahead to convert it back into the mosque it was during the Ottoman Empire there was also opposed by some secular groups as well as the heads of the Eastern Orthodox Church the greek government and the u. S. Tuckeys highest consultative body met on thursday and says it will announce its ruling within 15 days. Once a church later a mosque and now a museum i also fear has always been precious and sacred for both christians and muslims built as a church in the 6th century they are sufi i was converted into a mosque after the concurring of what was constantinople in 1453 then turned into a museum by mustapha camel ataturk following the foundation of the turkish republic in 1923 now the turkish government wants to alter its status from may seem to mosque reopening go for sophia for shit means and its really the most traditional for respect on our site for the world which establishes in the womans. At the same time its a token of gratitude and loyalty to the spiritual person i wish of fulton fathi the conqueror. I also feel is part of the unesco World Heritage which forms the stumbles famous skyline its been a museum since 1935. There are many in church and turkey stays by a sufi as should be open to worship for both christians and muslims and your thoughts Christian Church is concerned that the transformation the former for over 8 years wolf we drove in was really bizarre boiled mediums of relations around the world and the us will feel relieved reads this is a vital us and the word used is embraced the worst really thrive to these 2 war. President trajectory fired on say as i also feel i can function like the nearby blue mosque often today the prayers and tourists at the same time we can talk about in turkey a Muslim Country we are free to worship anywhere we want no one has any say on it. Petitions were signed by the church to support the conversion but there are a poignant you do a lot of work you know this is a blow to our tourism i believe is not good for turkey upon a marginal point sophia to a mosque is a popular discussion in turkey and has support from the public along with the nationalist and conservative parties until last year president added on state out of the debate how ever he is very vocal about it now many believe its a political move especially given the rising tension between turkey and greece in the is certain mediterranean after part of the core on about conquest was resigned to deny a sophia last month the Greek Foreign minister said it insult the religious feelings of christians the turkish government sais i as sophia is a domestic issue not to be interfered with aljazeera a stumble. Well as bring in our guests and with us today from turkey you take his capsule and grow we have use of Political Writer and professor at the university of holiday in istanbul from the great capsule athens yanis cut services managing as a couple of news and expert on European Affairs and from istanbul agendas to mob present of it yes our university in catholic so on and professor of history of our wall welcome to all of you know just before we open up our discussion today we can actually speak to delegates Young Mothers he is the deputy chairman of the act party in charge of Foreign Affairs and he joins us now from ankara very good to have you joining us here on inside story lets get an idea from you why president wants to reconvert the iris of fear now. This is not a personal issue of president s have to have it is of course turkey is the issue right now there is a Court Decision about this whole issue this. State in turkey has made a decision but they have stopped yet a north to decision they are preparing to try to get off to a decision based on this decision it will be clarified what the 1925 government decision is one or 2 are not legally dissolute but of course theres the Political Part or assessment and that is not related to president of the new rock party that is about nation has a hook actually to when you look at stories when you look at the Public Opinion there is a general expectation that. Should be open to prayers it is that. Expectation of protest and that does not exclude the of course the use of. As a. Heritage of humanity if you believe that right just like any other mostly turkey like blue most you can of course benefit from such buildings full preterists as well as if for touristic attractions letter or other i mean you say that it said nationalized france has it said internal issue but lets look at the eyes of fair its got huge historical and cultural significance for billions of people around the world not least 300000000. 00 Orthodox Christians the greeks are getting very upset about this the u. S. Is getting upset about this the greek Orthodox Church is getting upset about this why whisk all that upset but but let me let me emphasize that this is not an issue concerning this is an issue concerning internal affairs of turkey and it just shows the rights but it was a dissident best thing not to say that then affects all these other people. Well as. I understand and naturally everyone is free to express their opinions i respect all of the opinions but nobody has the right to impose such. Preferences upon turkey it is decision of turkish people and Turkish Society but why are there 90 years of it being a museum and satisfying both sides of the place that all people can go to is it being discussed now many people would say that its for political gain that one has only brought up this issue twice in his leadership the last time was a year ago just before going to support elections when he was worried about losing istanbul seats and indies dedrick and now when the honey is on its knees knob we dont have any elections tracked no that is not needed for popular discussions in turkey if you have made a bit of successful fight against but lastly facing them hell officially Vital Research members of his party and home and our own. No no no that we dont have any internal i mean election time but anyway and it didnt like populist moment in turkey that is not correct assessment this tradition is the legal basis of this issue and also social expectations across trust i mean it is not related to one party it is crossed party. And the there are many people from the opposition parties and other parties that shared the same expectations this is not a party. It is beyond party issues and you have been very much respectful for all religions in turkey when you look at our 18 years of performance as government president after one himself he joined i mean the construction of the churches in turkey we have taken many legal descent decisions to give back as a sort of Christian Community and back and they needed evolutionary steps let me just put one more question i felt like a lot of fire away because this is not going to do with. The other religious or let go it was not ok just that getting reports that one has instructed his Advisory Council to hold us present us a fair on the 15th of july that of course is the 4th anniversary of the failed coup attempt is this true no did there is not such an offer i mean did there are lots of things discussed on this issue some people may have raised their expectations on this issues but short there is no official and much much more direct interpretation on this issues from president ever done on the contrary he just underlined that we have to wait for the Court Decision and then we will make our assessment that is welcome president has announced that gulnaz we appreciate you taking the time to join us here on inside sari thank you very much. Thank you thank you sam ok well lets bring in the other guests now and janice if i could turn to you 1st we heard there from the chairman of the act party that this is a National Issue its a turkish issue that most of turkey wants this whats your response to that well 1st of all yourself is a universal monument its been protected by unesco its been for more than 90 years a museum and a symbol of coexistence and a symbol of secular turkey and what we see now is another step another attack d by mr on the secular heritage of turkey hes been attacking the laws on treat the scenes 3 or 4 years now hes been taking every major heritage that the most effort to model has given to his country as a founding father of the turkish republic and now another symbol of. The fight to miles heritage your sophia is about to be turned converted into a mosque this is all in line with the all logical struggle by mr odo on an arc up r. T. To turn turkey into a Muslim Islamist country thats clear it turned out this is such a controversial issue whats your view is it a secular attack or is it simply answering the call of the turkish people. It is actually the certainly a legal issue if you look at the history because this is a stumble conquered by swart and 14 if you have to tree and it became. Most some other churches as well 567 years it was a church now in our took time they have changed into a museum because of design of the time and also shows notion of a movement through to the restaurant ization pan and you think it is i will give you some examples like the citation of asm in turkish in. That they change into arabic in democratic but Democrat Party in the mendus time you would think that like that this is that guys is now totally different from that time and ive coding the law and dormant law like a fool all eat by fatah so time i met the conqueror at church changed. Converted to mosque and i think is turkey now return back its legacy and also it is according to islamic law also see wicklow it is ok for that the why because it was a disease shown by the cabinet now we have another couple that and can change this one i think most of turkish people. Want to see this mosque as as more. So fair as most and you can find a lot of examples in the world such as cut at raw in karnataka in spain and such as mosques now they can you in greece as some exit polls and other things and most of them you know read on. I mean there its the. Same a lot of examples there were i just this is. Rick ok im just as in this figure as this poll that said that 73 percent of turks are happy to see it heading into a mosque as yours of alluding to in your answer what im wondering is youre in istanbul if that poll was taken there in that city what would be the result i think is it is really to the source religion of turkey in you look at the position of government look at the position of parliament and you can see that 77 to 5 percent of. We can say religious or. You know turkish people in general a nation is under religious people and i think so and to say one to 5 percent. Says that yes for conversion maybe 20 percent says nor i think this is this is related to General Social issues of turkey right now ok guys. Time interesting so you said what purpose do you think i. S. O. Fare would serve now as a mask. Or beat up knowing the background of fire sophia and the popcorn historian of turkey if ill be impossible to explain what is the straight asian mr agendas very well on the run in turkey between 1000. 00 tertius and between 1950 s. That happen that as arm has been transformed from origin a lot of big to turkish and the autumn on power 1st has been turned to the casinos for playing gamble inside and reciting koran teaching core on has been also strictly forbidden indoors youre sort of 30 is again changing all those issues to the origin i mean other than started to be written from the minarets in 1000 fifties and also the asop is one of the discussion point about that issue which has been discussed for more than 80 years inside turkey it is not something that mr arnault on woke up and started to say that i will turn our safiya from museum to the mosque it has been discussed already inside turkey for more than 80 years and also when you take a look at to the history of fire safiya it is also a discussion point and to our fore for vandeleur this is very important i should say it also in 2 earth 04 van latinos conquered it they looted all the parts and again in dos they have stayed even the rock that. Sorta should be the symbol of the russian orthodoxy and know that also or there are still room morris there are still lots of discussions that should be transformed into the orthodoxy during the cease fire armistice of one grows in night in night this isnt built up knowing this historical background become not at all at the station i only had underlying as the back secular its a country of this history which we must its a hugely historical site is what were saying today what were talking about not just a natural conclusion to where we are us and the state that turkey is in today. Well what my turkish friends do not to realize is that the use of fear is a symbol for many christians millions of christians around the world we have been fighting together christians and muslims who have been fighting jihadism for the last 10 years or so and now there is this example that will create a rift between muslim and Christian Communities and create new tensions it will feed the the narrative of the extremists on both sides i should remind you that the the video had a goal to conquer constantinople and make a yes afia a mosque so this is a glimmer exactly of the jihad this narrative and also we have the truth is voices in the west as well that want want to expend oh its lamb from the west so what this move will create it will be the perfect narrative for the extremists on both sides to say look this is a clash of civilizations the 2 the jury live just cannot live together one is occupying the other monuments and we cannot live in peace together so this is creating it will create a rift more than larger than inside turkey and what these handling right now tangas thats a solid point isnt it because this is a building that really does symbolize taki struggling to different worlds different faiths its been a mosque its been a cathedral now its a museum its open to everybody why upset that balance. Actually i dont think so that this is related to the radical it seems that this is not related to that values is. Totally different issue and other fractions in the rest some are old radical teams that its not related to do that in youll if you look at the history of turkey if you look at the history of autumn as on you can see that all religions live together on jews and christianity and muslims like that and the 2 to 3 years ago we have opened up where the big jewish. Church or in. Juneau paul and also a turkey tried to you know. Were or to some of the churches and others. In related to christianity and jews in turkey and you can see in turkey still some more school. Churches all together next to each other includes going to look in other areas and when you go to mosque you can see lots of people are praying dad and also to come and to do you know to visit the most i think is not related to radicalism is totally totally different as youre 38 years is 10 times the big secular country is that this is my this is this is this is a socialist you take and it is a value to a secular if i could just stress that point that youre making that is a secular country that has most it has synagogues it has chechens everyone living side by side so why upset the balance. Being a secular does not mean that you should forget about the about your values and the symbol of the. Stumble let me remind you that i have lived more than 2 years inside greece and inside greece if you are talking the breach between the cultures and the core existence of the religions with each other you cannot go to more insight dance insights and if you are the citizen of the greece they do not even provide you a graveyard if you are dying in sight there are tents you should carry your graveyard even to do. Something is just 500 kilometers north of the greece source than we are talking about be should talk about comparative the i do not think that turning higher so far from museum to the mosque again will not change the balance will not change the dynamic of the balance bit in the society because that me give you one example at 14 night or 2 when the spanish inquisition started inside spain the ot the Marshall Plan to greet them and brought all of the jewish people to the optimal lands while people are praying inside the churches inside the mosques inside the hower us in synagogues freely for this isnt my right of my right of praying inside. Shouldnt harm the people who lives inside turkey as a christian because the core existence in istanbul and in the many other parts of the turkey since from 1000 years are all together to beat each other but value or worth of the europe who can tell me that all the sister. Morphew says if i was going to what i say running out of time i dont want to jump in with one very quick almost a yes or no question you say that the higher. Up to muslims praying could it be opened up to both muslims and christians praying and it. I do not think that muslims and christians can pray in them off at the same time ok alright yanis just last point to you this is a unesco World Heritage site weve heard from the greek cultural minister saying that no change can be made without the approval of the uns own Intergovernmental Commission this is quite an interesting point can turkey unilaterally change the status of the eyes a fair well are legally gone but would sooner mr the one. Dispute spoked full of all International Law regarding the victors in this the middle is there anyone in syria you know libya everywhere shore will be surprised if mr are doing things that through turkey is not the blood to preserve you know school. Of the International Law ok thanks so much for a very lively discussion today as a dentist cut simitis and. And thank you 2 very much for watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our web site thats aljazeera dot com and for further discussion to go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com for slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter or handlers at a. J. Inside story from a laura kyle and the whole team him a spy for now thank. From some rise to some sent across asia and the pacific explode im told on fascinating stories one i won the east on the aljazeera. Ferguson has been in turmoil a few of my police cars are thought to and done are like times youre now getting shot. Again because of the make a political hole in my city where you are a state representative back in 9091 to me it was all how are you wanted a god without a gun my brother was killed my hood dont look no dear friend to any other hood out here and my whole world was keel me i saw my son in 15 years and i felt like you know at this my time to stand. This is the most going to push im just not willing to accept what substantial legislation can i get through thats going to speak to a major need for my community this bill identifies used violence as a public build up the damage last year we had 200. 00 murders the Ripple Effect of violence when it comes the youth it stretches far why. Are you in. The latest news as it breaks this crowd of hundreds of people didnt come with invitations to came to pay their respects to george floyd we detail the coverage the government needs to vallance the needs of the economy with a trace of the virus returning. From around the world organized crime is now beginning to try to play the role of robbing a black guy giving away food to win over the loyalty of people in desperate need. In a 2 part series. 0 observes the lives of 2 children. Over 20 years. Where insights into circumstances that shape lives. In a rapidly changing world. 20 years of mean continues with good morning groups india on aljazeera. This is aljazeera. Alarm clock this is the news hour life window coming up the next 60 minutes the u. S. Senate votes to ban banks from doing business with chinese officials implementing hong kongs new security lot. More protests in ethiopia as a singer whose murder sparked days of violence is laid to rest in his hometown. Elaine maxwell a close friend of the lake accused sex trafficking
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