And. Anyone but walk away but the message from the u. S. As it considers financial help the countries upgrading to find g. Technology huawei says its not controlled by beijing bureaucrats why is washington so worried by one of chinas most successful and Innovative Companies this is inside story. Hello welcome to the program and its. The United States says its willing to finance other countries 5 g. Networks so long as y. Way isnt involved President Donald Trump accuses beijing of using its influence over Chinese Companies to spy on other countries in the u. K. Huawei has been given permission to build a new Research Facility while the countrys Cyber Security agency conducts an emergency review into the use of wire weighs 5 g. Equipment but chinese firm says it will invest more than a 1000000000. 00 in its new site in the east of england while insisting the focus will be on the development and manufacture of semiconductors which according to while away a not targeted by u. S. Sanctions but washington has warned the British Government that the decision to approve the new project will put its trust in the u. K. At risk the u. S. Department of state has issued a statement saying it believes countries need to be able to trust that partners will not threaten National Security purpose eat intellectual property or human rights adding a company such as wa it is subject to an offer for a tearing government that lacks an independent judiciary or rule of law that would effectively prohibit the misuse of data the statement also urged allies lightly u. K. To carefully assess the long term impact of allowing what it called untrusted Companies Like wa way access to sensitive information. The u. S. And china have been at odds over trade and economic policies for the last 2 years when the crisis began in 2018 trade amounted to more than 737000000000. 00 but its declined considerably since that in january washington and beijing agreed on a 1st step towards a truce china promised to open up its markets and buy more American Goods in exchange the u. S. Agreed to lift some of its tariffs but not all leading to yet another standoff and the International Monetary fund cited the dispute when it cut projections for Global Growth to the lowest since 2009. Lets bring in our guests joining us from new york is john biggs a reporter for tech crunch in beijing and democracy in a Research Fellow at the center for china and globalization and in london ishant sus tree a visiting research or of Alan Turing Institute at the university of surrey in the United Kingdom welcome to you all john begin with you get a straight for question for you what will 5 g. Letters do that 40 card how important is it going to be for a countrys economic development. In many cases thats going to be very important the biggest difference in 5 g. Is the Internet Speed youre going to get i guess you could say landline speeds the sort of speeds that you get in a minute and a home an urban area in the u. S. Which is connected to the fiber optic cables or other other systems youre going to get that over the air and you should be able to get that country wide depending on the coverage of 5 g. Products 5 g. Routers so its going to be a really big difference ok and michelle what are the major Technological Innovations that can be exploited by 5 g. Or the 5 g. Can exploit what are you looking forward to so. Shed sell is as a standard and its the next generation from the previous poorly that youre used to and several big ations that been proposed ranging from some more forward looking ones such as the more surgery or connected cars to even just being able to download movies much much faster than you can in todays technology so thats the promise of. Ok and andy ots official in intelligence is one particular area thats going to benefit from 5 g. I understand and chinas particularly invested in not particularly in developing massive Valence Technology and facial recognition huawei has helped to develop this so you can see why if beijing is a chinese a country intolerance of political dissent of the country might be suspicious of working with companies that work with the Chinese Government is a fair point. I think it is an interest to the issues here are so in our response and so. Are many technologies and maynard classic Disruptive Technology like electricity and water we knew where everything was there or yes there were consumer. Applications so i think any of them we disrupted some problem to people are concerned and i think that the right we should be quality is a problem thats sure which is why i think its a work that we all Work Together to ensure that there are proper safeguards are so that everyone can be safe but also you also john is the us right to be very nervous about huawei is dominance and fire in the 5 g. Market. I think its kind of us i think its kind of a silly statement. In terms of in terms of why weighs dominance versus. Versus nokias dominance you can get 5 g. Hardware from multiple sources right now and for them to single out while away is a bit unfair obviously there are some issues while away obviously there are some concerns in terms of privacy in terms curity etc but to completely cut someone out of that space is very dangerous and very damaging and absolutely i want to i want our 5 g. To be as secure and then super as possible but i think that a a box on a on a light pole somewhere in the middle of brooklyn has very very little to do with this whole political storm withdrawing. The do you think the u. S. Is right to be putting such pressure on european governments on asian and african governments not to get involved with wa white because of the phase of surveillance so let me be here so. Maybe i should actually try to find out if this is a highly political questions i try to buy that im talking to as an individual rather than as a president you know any organization so you know you introduce me has and is doing research at an interesting institute and a professor at the university of century so im not presenting any of these institutions when im saying these things are not even as a as a profession but as an individual so what i would think is you know this. Matter what the biggest speaker was saying. If you shut one entity amongst set of competing in todays then you are increasing the base of the competition around it technology now this is a fairly meant sharing technology at this point so the Main Research that went into happened in the last 4 or 5 years but still theres a lot of been ovation to come and. If youre shutting out one aspect of one entity that sets the playing a role in that innovation then you are shaping that innovation youre curbing in the way which that innovation gets spread and so in that sense i would say perhaps there should be more of a mess of it now i recognize as the previous speaker said that there are security concerns but the precise nature of those security concerns are not have not been met here for whatever reasons maybe that National Security isnt so important. With helpful details it would be hard for me to say why. A country should stop one of the competing in todays attacks who are away from competing in a market for what will be in several billions of dollars of. Commerce that is from this. And the how did huawei rise to this dominant position how much help as it had on the way from the from the Chinese Government. Well i think there are water mis steps and maybe. This is the way sure. So long way i think is the. Trainings part of us and thus the word half was that different from a few with pack for the. Starting forward for on the long little 4 to bring the rule of global significance in thats bali was started by a man named. A former engineer started out we. Are invested in r. And d. We recycle and literally were backing will cooperate into Cool Technology and i think its important to recognize fuel that quality watches that we get are. Base stations a point of equipment that we dont see the total wall all the way through soros sort of always also where we. Can. Make a lot of the once and for really since and lots of america still should be just sorry to interrupt but the wall street journal reported last year that 75000000000. 00 worth of state support have gone to college or ing its burthen creation it could have got where it is without the support. Sure wrong understanding is that following has been. Quite vocal parts and are staying alert to progress and worsening. Government institutions and talking with us from all this is wrong just that we were to kill all around the world again that we think about we need some stronger. Communication it really it wont work were modern society and a lot we want to function without the following reasons for wanting the. Office so i dont think its that surprising. With bollywood films current role while improving from the Baltimore School john could fall way of got to where it is today without significant support from the chinese state. Well have depends on what she what we consider significant support if theyre if theyre literally shoveling money into the organization to ensure complete control over the technology thats a little bit iffy but look at motorola look at any one of these companies that have received grants that have received contracts to build out the infrastructure for for the 21st century and all of those folks are getting billions of dollars in government grants we dont know where its all this stuff is opaque right we dont know how much motorola got to build out infrastructure in the u. S. We dont know how much nokia got from the European Union from any number of countries to go to infrastructure elsewhere and 75 and a big number but its also a big country and you need a lot of you need a lot of infrastructure to get something up and running like a even a ford g. Or 5 g. Network its a massive undertaking so did they get that money as bribes or they got that money as a i dont know 2 to offer security holes we dont know that is that a danger absolutely but is that is a what a traditional technological advance that is open and has a full standard and is able to be understood by somebody who a little more Technical Expertise than even us on the call. Would that prevent me from wanting to use their software if i have that access if i can understand what that router is doing probably not well then why is the us. John fallen so far behind in developing the sorts of technologies 5 companies a tiny comparison had the the the manufacturing where were big manufacturer but were not a high tech manufacturer unfortunately on the coast you could say that were high tech manufacture and also if you want to talk about falling behind i think the i think one of the primary issues there is name starts with t. And ends with trump. Weve weve broken a few things here in the country and its problematic and its very very frustrating and and i think everybody is trying to work themselves out of that hole. Where working on or working out a. They were working on our thomas vehicles etc and all that stuff needs 5 g. And all that stuff needs 5 g. Now to get working for the next 10 years next 5 years even so this is a i guess is a big ramping up and its going to stay its going to slow things down unfortunately michele field is it possible for other Companies Ericsson samsung there are they have the Similar Technology to walk away can they compete can they catch up can all the companies catch up or is while way too far ahead so far out so the thing to emphasize is that Communications Telecommunications industry networking industry has the in coming up mainly because of this process of standardization so is not called 5 g. Everybody agreeing on work by g. E. So its you know really so and so are a pretty Good Organization an International Organization called the d g p b which is a historical you know anacondas in the sense that its called p. G. P. Be an extended izing something cruel. But everybody agrees and work 5 g. Technology isnt there are. Companies that got mention x. And not cisco and so forth who also happen in to implement improvement of the standards so yes the there are other companies. Who can also give the same kind of functionality that that were always operating and if youve a pure a company has benefited so much from Government Support down the line the governments going to want to be able to ask a few favors isnt it the governments going to be able to want you to help them out. Well i dont want to run this or that was true regarding the back for a little bit about why didnt you well last was the leadership. Because we look back to the days or 80 in. The us is the question were all. In what. I think the. Demands of profits are really comparable systems created these question was where a short term rebel sure for office. While arms who arent quite ruggedly was the companys ability to do your article in talk to patients. Waltzed in or far away how did you know who this might want to be able to force and what did they. Find with something we found this and vulnerable or is always possible was the questions you know what theyre not saying i want you to answer for the one who will think of the civil suits as anything from the working world wide law who will do so for years and schools will face in the world. As the question is and. What we should offer. Regulations that this can happen to make work so i dont know that the system was that we control. You know is that quality is that they are quite. A lot they say they are. What would they what is the product of their customers about above all else and were the shelf you all are so the problem is when huawei says its a problem and how i says its a private company is the way know that the system in beijing is not open so theres no way of telling really what beijing the government is telling huawei to do. Well i think it was certainly a different angle and we. Were asked to name names to all those countries there are different handles. Transparency i think the saddest part. Norms are peoples who were going to go which is that its just for our part which reduces. John one of the suggestions of proposals from the trumpet ministration is supporting open Network Technology is that a serious way of getting around holloways dominance would not work. Well presumably in the 5 g. Standard as open as well so i mean i think i think the problem of getting 3 tech nerds on a call like this is that we kind of understand that a 5 g. Box is a fairly primitive in terms of in terms of what its supposed to do in terms of what it can do and in terms of what its designed to do so a small box like that would be far more it would be far more lucrative to. Hack into a nokia. Call switch or some sort of nokia system and hide something in there because nobody is looking there everybody is scrutinizing the weiwei stuff right now. But in terms of the terms of the dangers theyre fairly limited and also open standards or open standards we already have open standards and presumably this is this is an assumption on my part i dont have one in front of me presumably anyone can open up one of these 5 g. Boxes and see whats going on inside disassemble the operating system understand the operating system etc theres lots of places to hide nooks and crannies where you could hide something thats dangerous but even an open standard is dangerous because it can be it can be tampered with at the at the at the manufacturing level at the at the installation level etc theres no perfect way to install these things and theres no perfect standard thats going to make these things completely impervious michels do you think supporting open Network Technology is a way to stop the war on company being dominant im conscious of not trying to make this all about huawei but by be suggesting that other companies can get into the 500 business and actually maybe a do it would be useful to live to something from this particular context to you know the question of whether governments i dont mind some time from china put pressure on companies and you know weve seen various cases but example with political ads and what should be allowed on social media platforms and what should not be allowed the u. S. Government or the e. U. Hell i want to have very very strong opinions and theyre going to try and impose those opinions on the companies and the Companies Likewise have very strong opinions on what they should support and what they want to support. So as its just one example were piercing with our research is that there is actually more privacy lost from 3rd parties such as google had systems and facebook abscessed times in the u. K. In the western countries than in comparison with china where these Big Companies are blocked because of governmental policies right so. You could you could see a case for. Governmental pressure of. Being good against google and facebook in in the privacy sector in the in the web space as a large as the private space but yes so the main thing that 5 g. Brought to the table was actually this openness that everything would be a programmable somebody find. Our core. Which will make it a much more cheaper part of the operator still are to deliver the services that they should but also were over permit more intractability among the different equipment vendors and among the different operators that need to interact were with each other to deliver this Global Network that we have developed great so absolutely open to providing is the way to go and its not just the u. S. Government are the Chinese Government its not just 5 g. Are the web space everywhere theres this kind of puzzle which happens as with any other new technology of our crew you know what should what is permissible what is not permissible what should be than our so its not a unique case in any sense at all and only how much is all of this particular focus on huawei tied to this general deepening set of suspicions by western powers and some. Jd powers of chinas ambitions overall well i think this really is the question. Of what people find it really is for the full. Confrontation or why theyre doing that with us they are generally for what i think yes calls world leadership russia for example articles to. See a train or writing. That is clear it was wrong but also. As well this is absolute if not more so because the big question was why actually or not the. Court and many of them struggle with earning a sufficient work for all capital so we offer. What the u. S. In this run is that could conceivably lose the ecological leadership that is watching us. And what these motorways well i think this really creates a lot of anxiety for the u. S. And so therefore be able to pass the software all off. Ok gentlemen well unfortunately were out of time but thank you to john biggs to be mock and an external nish ancestry and thank you to watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. 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