Anyone but walk away but the message from the u. S. As it considers financial help for countries upgrading to 5 g. Technology huawei says its not controlled by beijing bureaucrats why is washington so worried by one of chinas most successful and innovative companies. Is inside still. Hello welcome to the program. The United States says its willing to finance other countries 5 g. Networks so long as wow a isnt involved President Donald Trump accuses beijing of using its influence over Chinese Companies to spy on other countries in the u. K. Huawei has been given permission to build a new Research Facility while the countrys Cyber Security agency conducts an emergency review into the use of wire weighs 5 g. Equipment the chinese firm says it will invest more than a 1000000000. 00 in its new site in the east of england while insisting the focus will be on the development and manufacture of semiconductors which according to while away a not targeted by u. S. Sanctions but washington has warned the British Government that the decision to approve the new project will put its trust in the u. K. At risk the u. S. Department of state has issued a statement saying it believes countries need to be able to trust that partners will not threaten National Security previously intellectual property or human rights adding a company such as wa is subject to an offer for a tarion government that lacks an independent judiciary or rule of law that would effectively prohibit the misuse of data the statement also urged allies lightly u. K. To carefully assess the long term impact of allowing what it called untrusted Companies Like wa way access to sensitive information. The u. S. And china have been at odds over trade and economic policies for the last 2 years when the crisis began in 2018 trade amounted to more than 737000000000. 00 but its declined considerably since that in january washington and beijing agreed on a 1st step towards a truce china promised to open up its markets and buy more American Goods in exchange the u. S. Agreed to lift some of its tariffs but not all leading to yet another standoff and the International Monetary fund cited the dispute when it cut projections for Global Growth to the lowest since 2009. Lets bring in our guests joining us from new york is john biggs a reporter for tech crunch in beijing and democracy in a Research Fellow at the center for china and globalization and in london ishant sus tree a visiting research or of Alan Turing Institute at the university of surrey in the United Kingdom welcome to you all john begin with you a get a straight for question for you what will 5 g. Letters do that 40 card how important is it going to be for a countrys economic development. In many cases thats going to be very important the biggest difference in 5 g. Is the Internet Speed youre going to get i guess you could say landline speeds the sort of speeds that you get in a minute and a home an urban area in the u. S. Which is connected to the fiber optic cables or other other systems youre going to get that over the air and you should be able to get that country wide depending on the coverage of 5 g. Products 5 g. Routers so its going to be a really big difference ok and michelle what are the major Technological Innovations that can be exploited by 5 g. Or the 5 g. Can exploit what are you looking forward to so 5 shed sell is is astounding and its the next innovation from the previous poorly that youre used to and several you have big ations that been proposed ranging from some more forward looking ones such as the more surgery or connected cars to even just being able to download movies much much faster than you can in todays technology so thats the promise of. Ok and andy ots official in intelligence is one particular area thats going to benefit from 5 g. I understand and chinas particularly invested in not particularly developing muscle Valence Technology and facial recognition huawei has helped to develop this so you can see why if beijing is a chinese a country intolerance of political dissent of the country might be suspicious of working with companies that work with the Chinese Government is a fair point. I think it is an interest to the issues here are so in our response and so. Are many technologies and they heard me a classic Disruptive Technology like electricity the water we knew where everything was there or yes there were consumer. Applications so i think any of them we destructive to people are concerned and i think that the right we should be quality is a problem its sure which is why i think its a work that we all Work Together to ensure that there are proper safeguards are so that everyone can be safe but also we also john is the u. S. Right to be very nervous about huawei is dominance in 5 in the 5 g. Market. I think its kind of us i think its kind of a silly statement. In terms of in terms of why weighs dominance versus. Versus nokias dominance you can get 5 g. Hardware from multiple sources right now and for them to single out while away is a bit unfair obviously there are some issues while away obviously theres some concerns in terms of privacy in terms carry etc but to completely cut someone out of that space is very dangerous and very damaging and absolutely i want to i want our 5 g. To be as secure and then super as possible but i think that a box on i on a light pole somewhere in the middle of brooklyn has very very little to do with this whole political storm withdrawing. The do you think the u. S. Is right to be putting such pressure on european governments on asian and african governments not to get involved with wa white because of the fears of surveillance so let me be here so. So maybe i should actually try to find out if this is a highly political questions i try to buy that im talking to as an individual rather than as that a president you know any organization so you know you introduce me has and is doing research at an interesting institute and a professor at the university of century so im not presenting any of these institutions when im saying these things are not even as a as a profession but as an individual so what i would think is you know this. Matter what the biggest speaker was saying. If you shut one entity amongst set of competing in todays then you are increasing the base of the competition around it technology now this is a fairly made showing technology at this point of the Main Research that went into the happen in the last 4 or 5 years but still theres a lot of been ovation to come and. If youre shutting out one aspect of one entity that sets the playing a role in that innovation then you are shaping the innovation youre curbing in the way which that innovation gets spread and so in that sense i would say perhaps there should be more of an aesthetic night recognizes the previous speaker said that there are security concerns but the precise nature of those security concerns are not have not been met here for whatever reasons maybe that National Security isnt so important. With helpful details it would be hard for me to say why. A country should stop one of the competing in todays attacks who are away from competing in our you know market or what will be in several billions of dollars of. Commerce that were announced on this. And the how did huawei rais to this dominant position how much help as it had on the way from the from the Chinese Government. Well i think there are water mis steps and maybe. This is the way sure about this so long way i think is the classic training spartacus and thus the word half was that different from a few with pack for the. Starting forward for on the long little plot to bring the rule of global significance in thats bali was started by a man named winter. Forward in your career started out we. Are invested in r. And d. We recycle and literally were acting will cooperate into a Cool Technology and i think its important to recognize. That quality who watches the meter is a stations a point of equipment that we dont see the total wall all the way through sparkles so always also unworldly. While handsome as well make a lot of that once and for really suits and lots of americans especially on the just sorry to interrupt but the wall street journal reported last year that 75000000000. 00 worth of state support have gone to college or ing its burthen creation it could have got where it is without the support. Sure wrong understanding is that following has been. Quite vocal parts and the goal of the parsons world to be. Government institutions and talk with us from all this is wrong just that we were to kill all around the world again that we think about all we need are some stronger. Community it really did work work through the modern society and a lot of work to function without far away really for a while in the. Office so i dont think its that surprising. With barlow to do with the current role while he was moving from the Baltimore School john could fall way of got to where it is today without significant support from the chinese state. Well he depends on what she what we consider significant support if theyre if theyre literally shoveling money into the organization to ensure complete control over the technology thats a little bit iffy but look at motorola look at any one of these companies that have received grants that have received contracts to build out the infrastructure for for the 21st century and all of those folks are getting billions of dollars in government grants we dont know where its all this stuff is opaque right we dont know how much motorola got to build out infrastructure in the u. S. We dont know how much nokia got from the European Union from any number of countries to go to infrastructure elsewhere and 75000000000 is a big number but its also a big country and you need a lot of you need a lot of infrastructure to get something up and running like a even a ford g. Or 5 g. Network its a massive undertaking so did they get that money as bribes or they got that money as a i dont know 2 to offer security holes we dont know that is that a danger absolutely but is that is a what a traditional technological advance that is open and has a full standard and is able to be understood by somebody who a little more Technical Expertise than even us on the call. Would that prevent me from wanting to use their software if i have that access if i can understand what that router is doing probably not well then why is the us. John fallen so far behind in developing the sorts of technologies 5 companies a tiny comparison. The the the manufacturing where were a big manufacturer but were not a high tech manufacturer unfortunately on the coast you could say that were high tech manufacture and also if you want to talk about falling behind i think the i think one of the primary issues there is name starts with t. And ends with trump. Weve weve broken a few things here in the country and its problematic and its very very frustrating and and i think everybody is trying to work themselves out of that hole. Where working on or working out a. They were working on our thomas vehicles etc and all that stuff needs 5 g. And all that stuff needs 5 g. Now to get working for the next 10 years next 5 years even so this is a i guess is a big ramping up and its going to stay its going to slow things down unfortunately michele field is it possible for other Companies Ericsson samsung there are they have the Similar Technology to walk away can they compete can they catch up can all the companies catch up or is while way too far ahead so far at so the thing to emphasize is that Communications Telecommunications industry networking industry has been coming up mainly because of this process of standardization so the focus is not called 5 g. Everybody agreeing on work 5 g. Is so its really so and so are going to be an organization an International Organization called the d. P. P. Which is a historical you know an account of them in the sense that its current p. G. P. Be an extended izing something crude. But everybody agrees on work 5 g. Technology isnt that are the phone companies that got mention x. And not cisco and so forth who also happen in to implement improvement of the standards so yes that there are other companies. Who can also give the same kind of functionality that that weighs on printing and if youve a youre a company thats benefited so much from Government Support down the line the governments going to want to be able to ask a few favors isnt it the governments going to be able to want you to help them out. Well i dont want to promise or that was true regarding the back for a little bit about why didnt you well last was the leadership. Because we look back to the days or 80 in. The us is the question were all. In what. I think the. Demands of profits are really comparable systems created these question was where a short term rebel sure for office. While arms who arent quite regularly was the person who companys ability to your article in talking to patients. Waltzed in or far away how did you know the sequence of them might want to leave a full force and what did they. Find from police and the role of the wall or its always possible was the question was. Whether or not i want you to answer for the one who will think of the civil suit for anything from the working world wide law who will do so for years weve seen cases in the world. Has the question isnt. What we should offer. Revelations that this can happen in a courtroom so i dont know that the system was that we control. What we do know is that quality is that they are quite. A lot they say they are. What would they what is the product of their customers about above all else and were the shelf you all are so the problem is one who always says its a problem and how i says its a private company is the way know that the system in beijing is not open so theres no way of telling really what beijing the government is telling huawei to do. Well i mean. Its a different problem and we. Were. All countries yes they were good parents. Are parents parents that. Are doing that warms the cockles. That its just that our rituals as. One of the suggestions are proposals from the trumpet ministration is supporting open Network Technology is that a serious way of getting around power is dominance would that work. Well presumably in the 5 g. Standard as open as well so i mean i think i think the problem of getting 3 techniques on a call like this is that we kind of understand that a 5 g. Box is a fairly primitive in terms of in terms of what its supposed to do in terms of what it can do and in terms of what its designed to do so a small box like that would be far more it would be far more lucrative to. Hack into a nokia. Call switch or some sort of nokia system and hide something in there because nobody is looking there everybody is scrutinizing the weiwei stuff right now. But in terms of the terms of the dangers theyre fairly limited and also open standards are open standards we already have open standards and presumably this is this is an assumption on my part i dont have one in front of me presumably anyone can open up one of these 5 g. Boxes and see whats going on inside disassemble the operating system understand the operating system etc theres lots of places to hide nooks and crannies where you could hide something thats dangerous but even an open standard is dangerous because it can be it can be tampered with at the at the at the manufacturing level at the at the installation level etc theres no perfect way to install these things and theres no perfect standard thats going to make these things completely impervious michels do you think supporting open Network Technology is a way to stop the war on company being dominant im conscious of not trying to make this all about huawei but by be suggesting that other companies can get into the 5 business and actually maybe a do it would be useful to live to something from this particular context to you know the question of whether governments i dont mind sometimes from china put pressure on companies and you know weve seen videos cases but example with political ads and what should be allowed on social media platforms and what should not be allowed the u. S. Government or the e. U. Hell i want to have very very strong opinions and theyre going to try and impose those opinions on the companies and the Companies Likewise have very strong opinions on what they should support and what they want to support. So as its just one example were piercing with our research is that there is actually more privacy lost from 3rd parties such as google had systems and facebook abscessed times in the u. K. In the western countries than in comparison with china where these Big Companies are blocked because of governmental policies right so. You could you could see a case for. Governmental pressure of. Being good against google and facebook in in the privacy sector in the in the web space as a large as the private space but yes so the main thing that 5 g. Brought to the table was actually this openness that everything would be a programmable somebody find. Our core. Which will make it a much more cheaper part of the operator still are to deliver the services that they should but also were over permit more intractability among the different equipment vendors and among the different operators that need to interact were with each other to deliver this Global Network that have developed at a so absolutely open to providing is the way to go and its not just the u. S. Government are the Chinese Government its not just 5 g. Are the web space everywhere theres this kind of puzzle which happens as with any other new technology of our crew you know what should what is permissible what is not permissible what should be than our so its not a unique case in any sense at all and only how much is all of this particular is focused on huawei tied to this general deepening set of suspicions by western powers and some. Asian powers of chinas ambitions overall well i think this really is the question. What people find it really is you will feel. Confrontational or live in that u. S. You are they are generally for what i think yes calls world leadership russia for example articles to your soul who see a train or writing. That is clear it was wrong but also. As well this is absolute it is not normal because the big question was why actually or not. And many of them struggle with earning a sufficient work for all capital so we ought to look for. What the us in this run is that could conceivably lose the ecological leadership that is watching us. And what these motorways well i think this really creates a lot of anxiety for the u. S. And so therefore be able to pass the software all off. Ok gentlemen well unfortunately were out of time but thank you to john biggs to be mock and an external nish ancestry and thank you to watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also find us on twitter we are a. J. Inside story and i is 0 for me Bernard Smith and the entire team here in doha by foot. This underwater treasure is a risk of disappearing juice a coral bleaching caused by rising temperatures but we think the Great Barrier a strain the area that Cultural Heritage is iconic and of Tourism Industry based bands that we will lose instantly if we have another bleaching event of these magnitude if this continues is just well the opportunity for the corals to recover in between those mad. Scientists a calling for a stronger Climate Policy from the government to reduce emissions without this the situation on the get was. In a 2 part series. 0 observes the lives of 2 children. Over 20 years. Where insights into circumstances that shape lives. In a rapidly changing world. 20 years of me starts with floods and land to produce a story on how to see you around. From young. Revolutionaries. From political activism to incarceration. In part one of a 2 part documentary she had just experienced the single minded journey. The 1st street of an independent bosnia herzegovina. As a backup. From prisoner to present on jesse. On july 1st russians had to the polls to vote on constitutional reforms including changes that could enable putin to remain in office through 2036 but with a drop in Approval Ratings for his handling of the pandemic are they willing to pave the way for an even longer presidency follow developments on a just eat up. Or. Im convinced doha with the top stories on aljazeera egypt and sudan say ethiopia has agreed to not start filling its new mega dam until they can settle their dispute ethiopia says the dam on the blue nile is vital for its economy egypt and saddam say their Water Supplies will dwindle as have a morgan in saddams capital khartoum says theres still much to resolve it took a meeting between the Prime Minister of sadat egypt as well as other members of the African Union including you correct chair of the African Union south african president also to try