Dozens of monuments have come down being pinned down already faced how much should we handle contentious mockers past that is our discussion today im femi oke a youre watching the street if youre flying on the cheap right now jump into the chat and you can be part of the conversation. Im going to say hello to the guests the guess what shes themselves to you hello that helium welcome to the street are you doing julie may actually enter a new story in professional leadership that is the United States the university of richmond virginia. Good to have you i know that stephanie tell us. Im stephanie calling williams im the spokesperson for both and that were providing wives and im also a social worker and apologists and im calling in from brussels. Welcome to the stranger and i should say theres more than one family has come the same since and when i say hi femi ally in tell us who you are im not talking to myself. Hi im other than me i mean although i am calling from Birmingham Sally all in the u. K. Im a press that events very much and. Here we are and also a regular on the pledge on sky news good to having julianne when you see that confederate general albert pike in washington d. C. Coming down as a nice story and what was your head saying what was your heart saying well i think in order to really understand the gravity of the moment you have to recognize that those statues recognize or actually symbolize a story or a narrative of one in which the america tour itself apart elate in the twilight of the 19th century and the south may have lost the civil war but in many ways it won the civil peace and part of that victory was the reclamation of public space so what you see in one on the one hand are people finally beginning to do their Due Diligence in contesting this long victory southern victory over the simple piece of public space on the other hand youre seeing. The beginning of something much more profound and i think that is people coming to terms with the continuation of White Supremacy in the United States this countrys tortured racial history which is then with us from the beginning in the east and then the association between the statuary confederate iconography and. These problems. I mean im bringing a family you here and putting on 20 i know this is a a noble thing for me to be doing battle on twitter earth dark back in my laptop says alongside the reporting as shes being removed voluntarily or otherwise the need to be key in david your explanation as to why because i have otherwise only the action is seen just in a bringing back here to bristol which is not too far away from you the protest is in bristol for example would have done far more good for the cause if one of them had approached a news crew and given a tree a calm reason as to what they were doing to coast and statue so you simply just coast and statue in a moment but he was the slave much it from for still much of bristols wealth in the u. K. Port city of bristol came from slavery so the idea of say they pulled him down they dont demean the war to fannie but doesnt need to be a better explanation for what was going on im sorry this is a thing that you rarely see have attempts to deal with it in my eyes movements happens a massive they say we dont have any clear and clear demands even though the essence of the market has terrorism a very clear legal change the put in place to fix them and in this particular case its very obvious why people in the black white matter do not want his statue in a public place because the man in slaves well his company if it will in slaves 80000 people just once will for around 20000. 00 deaths of innocent people and who were thrown overboard to the ocean to their deaths so its very clear why that statue was brought down the argument that they were giving a clear explanation as to why simply an attempt to do demise the cost. Let me just bring in here and were a comrade amir a comrade is an activist she also makes incredible theater and she talked and she protested against a statue of special roads in Cape Town University this is what she told us from a South African past perspective as shes looking at these monuments around the world coming out and theyre taking down the statues of racists and oppressors and imperialists all around the world is a very important 1st step in dismantling a systemic and institutionalized racism and really just colonizing the way that we look at the world in the way that we look at history i also think that its not just a quick fix and we need to think about going deeper into these problems and really black people people of color and indigenous activists have already been having these conversations around the world we just havent really been listening to them and its high time that we do it stephanie how is this playing out in belgium and popular monuments coming down discussions about money thats coming down and you have particular perspective on any particular person historical person who is now called very controversial. Yes belgium we have liable to kill more people than hitler did so from 10 to 15000000 congolese people and their lives seem to not matter so for us its also about recognizing the lives of crime when these people and this 6 are being. Put in the right context so we actually want these lives to still matter just as well as a black lives on the european borders and other black lives that we cease to or refuse to talk about. There is some push back about ideas of such as just coming down. The idea that its vandalism and usually should be honoring history let me ringback just put it in a little clip from preston chum because on saturday he responded to the d. C. Statue of albert pike now lying on the ground and being defaced and it was burned as well his presence. The on whose left wing mob is trying to vandalize our history desecrate our monuments obviously full of money and. Tear down our statues and. Can soon add persecute anyone who does not conform to their demands for absolute and total control were not conforming thats why were hearing. Judy and the no one. Argument. Is finally is finally right right. There is a theres a theres a way out of a full fledge attack on. People who have fed up with the sin of a mission many mythologies that characterize things like the lost cause of the confederacy. The white washing of american colonial and imperialist history. You crack open a text book from the mid 20th century there are no people of color there are narratives that comport with or try to tell the story of millions of individuals who are or were essential not only to caribbean like south american liason or north American Life as forced laborers and in some ways i think people have had enough of that large part because what were seeing is a reemergence of White Supremacy. In the United States remarks to fascias im in europe and i think it belies in some ways what many were many people thought would be in the 21st century so i would say. Theres a but theres a bit of status anxiety in the United States in large form because there are people who are indoctrinated by these mythologies or think this is a white persons country for white people they will always be that way and as we trim majority minority i think a lot of these thinks what people are anxious about where the United States already so theres been a in some battle triggers a shockingly predictable result of this anxiety. Let me put some you cheap comments to julian and also to stephanie. Bogo he is on the right now hi there by the kitty i think it is sure sunny to raise history by tearing down when its its history denial at its western historian go ahead. I mean look. People who say youre in a race that people of color system has been a race to the United States right from the began it its its something thats taken place quite regularly and i think and why are the ones i do believe that if if we take these monuments down they dont attempt to recontextualize them to tell a more robust story theres a wasted opportunity but the idea that history that the aeration of history. Is a difficult endeavor is instance deeply problematic in large part because the white washing in a razor of peoples histories has been pretty common in the United States and i think deep down fundamentally thats what people are upset about is the law a decision of the speakers that we that we dedicated statuary to or in some ways are the promotion of a mythology that a restart of peoples was like no new chip im going to put it in youth i mean this is Kathleen Stevens hi kathleen thanks for being part of this conversation not happy historys history these guys were not bad. But History Matters family are happy and and stephanie should have some effect stephanies that and ok well on the historys history basically suck it up and accept that. Nobody learns their history from statues me personally i learned my history from history class acid pretty much everyone on planet earth the idea that if you knock down a statue suddenly that your history isnt a erased suddenly says a rose never exists only ever colson never this isnt egypt turtle never existed and slavery never existed because you knocked down a statue is just a fallacy put those statues in a museum where they belong on the all ice massive thing of course except that. Its the best analogy is a fireman gets caught 2 houses burning down he gets to the street and then somebody complains that theyre not sure pouring water on every house you have been operating down on the point is one particular house is burning down right now thats what were addressing right now. Stephanie. Yeah thats what i was you know the history of being a racist just. Its just not coherent at all like belgians history can never be here its not by taking now statues or anything changes i mean belgians riches were built on this colonial story and its not by taking the statues that it changes the woodwork of how the world was made so its basically another argument to not talk about the actual things that we are pulling down were pulling down White Supremacy were saying no just a semi graces im and this takes different roles on Different Levels its not only statues as Police Brutality is taking on all the systemic violence that people of color have suffered not only now but for decades. I mean i think not to. Have it be a subject that i mean many of these disciplines were worried it up were created to boston or the white supremacist ideas right and i got the idea that somehow arent people demanded. That their stories be told as tantamount to a race in history i think is absurd minorities were not just absolute right when they were shown its up in the way that history was told historically there were in consequential dehumanised figures and for these individuals many of whom were repatriated back to these imperialist countries in europe to demand a more robust story. Isnt easy to do whats the more robustly once youve taken down these kinds of National Power its the studies what is the robust story what does that even mean weve got to deal with like deal lightnin or take able to take meetings philosophers that are lionized by you or me its a pretty caustic things to say about africans for instance so a comment that was for the blue sister is were told out of it without agency i think its do try and that people begin to recognize this kind of diverse tapestry that that that characterized not just european and western history that that other people have a role to play in how the world evolves and i think especially the United States i cant speak for europe history is one of the worst parts of getting the k. Through 12 system and there are people who are who grow up to be full fledged adults who are wholly ignorant in large part because the way that history is taught of these love you started school oh you make such a great point here james dolan says on twitter that more people have learned about the realities slavery in this 3 day since edward coastin statue was thrown in the sea bristow than they did in 150 years that it was standing that. Now even. He was let me write a lot more history and go to the go. To rest africa. Who gives tours of the sleigh for it on the coast of ghana and he has a very particular view of what we should do with controversial monuments here yes. It is very proactive to protect history the mother how tragic it is it is wrong to fall on series as important as this to tear down stuff its kind of a stand i call for heritage authorities to create and most serious of these you sort of call militia and support sure that hes freedom of the Transatlantic Slave Trade hes read of the Transatlantic Slave Trade is very poor it is diabolical top however we have started on what happened in the past in part on not to repeat. Them. As you and i mean but i think if any the best team you guys thank them are id agree with the principle that we shouldnt erase history id also agree with the principle that if it is a crime having committed a crime has been committed the only question is what do you do when faced with protesters who have torn out of statutes technically at the time breaks the law you have to look at the situation a list equate we have a country where it is currently legally allowed to have statues of racist mass murderers in the centers of town squares that is the larger wrong here so as a government you can either change the law so thats that you should never been in a public space other than a museum or you can go after those who tore it down those are your choices. Yeah i think you know a lot of people are at a very fundamental level struggle to grapple with what your story is and were not talking about whitewashing a racy historical facts things that actually happened i think we need to start recognizing that history is essentially the study of history as it is a collection of memories there analyzed they were used in a meaningful conclusions what people are really driving at right now are the collection of memories that historical lack of shows right and who who is celebrated who is why in our eyes and some ways who are who is to victimized by the sin of omission and i think dealing with these strategies is a way to begin. To not only get people off of to tell to tell other stories that to get people to think more intently about what the actual process of istria is and how that might help us move forward a nice diversifying society. Its really clear that face this moment is impacting lots of people around the world with the legacies of their various different histories or that be european colonialism whether it be the civil war in the u. S. At i want you to hear from apollo hes in east africa hes in uganda and he signed on to a petition to with statues that are in uganda in east africa hes take my name is a minority and you can find one of many people who have signed. Petition to remove certain color on your street names among humans and other symbols this is a symbol of the present time no no come on your legacy that was responsible for many our constitution our part of the world. Dont deserve our own and glory that we give them we need to remove them and keep them in museums council. France and work of our uganda and promoting peace justice and freedom. But. You know this isnt slightly time letters that i want to. Give me i feel like maybe we speak weve touched a nerve here go ahead. You know when people are waging war on on stone statues theyre not really waging war on the statue but a story but i do think it is imperative that we not tell the story of colonialism imperialism and the subjects of those colonialist imperatives work life didnt have agents right i mean at the height of british raj how many how many english were india right i think they made deals with people and there were people in subjugated communities who played a part in Colonial Systems actually thats the way thats it its a fact i mean you know we talk about the Transatlantic Slave Trade africans i mean the what this wasnt a snack should not have that type of systematic movement of human beings without africans played a part in the slave trade and these are complicated stories of people and places of color who actually were tears in her i mean just bringing stephanie here on twitter theres this comment from dan the artists and then the artist essence what i say take them down but dont destroy them put them all in a museum and call the museum americas nira educate all on the wickedness of americas were not repeated destroying in the racing history could or bad its a very dangerous path i want to look at this and stephanie from your perspective in the end belgium i say take them down but dont destroy them are you ok with me with these monuments being pulled down graffiti on them been burnt are you ok with that. I mean i think everyone struggles and thats their struggle their own way and that theres no way kyra key in this is a better way or worse way how to Lay Construction you know show your or its our star go and i also feel like we dont have those museums involved only have like to view the museum which is also problematic and people dont agree with so we dont have those museums that are accountable and do tell the story in way that we can respect. What will she do with those controversial spaces so what would she create well gee just want them all to come falling down stephanie id like all of them come down as well as the street names and also make them to be replaced by you know people that were actually we can be proud of as like a bunch of people you know like that christian woman is also someone that we can look up to that was also murdered by the belgian state so instead of honoring and glorifying and also normalizing racism in our society i would like us to put people that we can actually be proud of and that also our legs part of the story that we want to tell about ourselves and not the story of violence not the story of late hate not disorient like nonrecognition so i think this continuation of having it normal and being there is just unacceptable yeah thats exactly it because you dont build a statue of somebody you hate you build a statue of somebody who your society believes is a role model for your society so that we still have those that use up sends the message that we still think that these people are people to aspire to or we should do is build is replace those public spaces with the statues as you just said of people who do have more and a values. Did i just push that gently just for the sake of a decent argument that. I think theres a is there a lack of imagination when we talk about statuary and. You know why not use the scaling branch of some of these structures against themselves right now to tell a more robust story that takes all these things and you would shout which isnt to say that im in disagreement whats taking place but it seems to me theres a if you lack of imagination we talk about minute see the town down or leave them as they are as if theres nothing in between that we could do to tell a story that delineates everything that weve just discussed right she had got me watching and im learning not saying that taking the statues down wont change anything well listen we know this in the United States quite well right after the massacre in charleston they took down the Confederate Flag they took down general robert e. Lee who led the confederacy in new orleans all cities are no less racist than they were before those icons were removed i think at lest these initiatives are met with the type of institutional will and activism the follow through after the statues come down like i said its a wasted opportunity this is part of a much Broader Movement you can get caught up in the political symbolism of taking news now that carried it forward im so glad you said that now or got into paths and i did not come and now now says people are tired of dialogue to address Racial Discrimination they resulted to poet action now to what extent can mr black movement go in the future ethanol. So that statue this morning on saturday i again we discuss the morality of it i do take your point in terms of we could use those that choose by the class there say look this person enslaved this number of people murdered december people and that could actually be a monument to all the things that have been done wrong in our past. But in terms of the conversation around this. Yes its been a distraction i mean weve seen the people on the rights of you get politics out of them and in america basically jump on this is a chance to wage what they see as a massive culture war the and the people who are really proud of our history versus the will who say no this doesnt represent who we are today and that and that i and that is a massive distraction from actually dealing with the senate races and because as julianne just met engine even if you get rid of every single races that you in the country systemic racism will still be there youll still have this poor choice up by police youll still have that people start from advancing in their careers because they dont have the right sounding name those things will still be there long after that guns we should there are a focus back to the real issues. If you know theyre for the western world had done something needed for all of that its tortured racial issue and this stuff would be a punchline right the statues would be a bunch abilene i think the fact that were having this discussion is that theres something inherently wrong with over 21st century societies and other people are still treated as 2nd class citizens i think had we actually done something meaningful around the issues of race we might not we might not be at this moment right but i dont agree that gas pressure has it been a really couldnt the history and robust conversation julie and stephanie the on the femi thank you so much you too thank you for engaging really appreciate that rats out this epidemic strain thank you for watching the next time together. Capturing a moment in time. Snapshots of all the lives. Of the stories one people are pretty calm and there is no one check again and provided a glimpse into someone elses was new up pursuing in the dream or a few other life inspiring documentaries from impassioned filmmakers. Witness on aljazeera his countrys begin easing coronavirus restrictions scientists warn of a 2nd wave of infections in the last few days there. In front of the neighborhood and many feel the economy is being poirot toys about for human life until fall the Football Club getting the focus on the outfield the one spike in public 1000 faces we bring you the latest developments from across the globe coronavirus condiment special coverage on a. Short films of hope. And inspiration. A series of short hustle stories that highlight the human triumph against the odds. I could afford a 400 give it was you know he had to be one. Savior if it aco keep it up because if it everybody wants aljazeera selects. Play an Important Role in protecting human. Face. Aljazeera. Hello im adrian forget and this is the news live from doha coming up in the next 60 minutes and call on the israeli government. Its an exception as the u. N. Secretary general says that israeli plans to annex parts of the occupied west bank would be a serious violation of international will. Palestinians are gathering in one of the areas that may be annexed the Jordan Valley to protest to