The day global headlines inside story on al jazeera. High after the ok welcome to the street and i want to use impatience from the streets of hong kong on wednesday hong kong time why police are in the streets they are facing civilians and protesters in wont guns pepper spray penates now this protest may be a very rare thing in the future because there is a National Security bill that hes trying to be pushed through and it will also relate to hong kong as well as Mainland China and that is what were talking about the possible impact of this National Security bill on hong kong as if you have a perspective a point of view in your own jumping to the chat and you too can be in the street. That means she she to the guests or the guest can introduce themselves to you hello will some welcome to the string tell everybody who you are. My name is also im a barrister based here in hong kong and im a member of the Progressive Lawyers Group good to have you i know welcome to the stream tell everybody you are well im a bit of a mixture of many things i was a lawyer i was a politician i was and vestment banker and now in that media so ive done all the bad things but i was also a member of the American Civil Liberties union and numerous other charitable groups which dealt with issues involving i immigrants looking for to having you in todays discussion and how the rest of our. I am isabel est im an editor with quartz news here in hong kong is a bear and i cover the whole region but specifically hong kong for the time being i look. Isabella and wilson are both based in hong kong i know is in beijing wilson out on the streets out and about today through the weekend up to me what is it been like whats been happening on the streets. Well hes missing a lot of protests out on the streets and a lot of these are just ordinary people so d weve seen a lot of School Children out weve seen a lot of elderly people weve seen in the above professionals out on the street and thats been met by a pretty harsh Police Response so just today we have over 650 arrests we saw schoolchildren being rounded up into police vans and saw a lot d of people being pepper sprayed d and similar thing happened over the weekend where there d was about 250 arrests so theres been attempts to protest by the d people. But thats not crackdown quite harshly by fully cute right police was in there was wilson the event was very this is a very choreographed event what you have here are the School Children elderly and you know this the protests are not something that happens generically i mean theyve also picked up people whove had bombs and centering things quitman to things like this so this is not something where you know a bunch of people now the numbers are way down but its been quite clear that this has been stage managed so that you know the you know quite prominently the schoolchildren are being hustled off into buses not handcuffed but just escorted on but why were they there in the 1st place you know if were somewhere else and somebody was using child soldiers people would be outraged and i think people should be questioning exactly what kind of movement does this kind of thing using these kids as puns. Wilson the executive is the point because what is the one of the images that he said you. Missed the stream i want is a shot is and is a tweet not in public and he says the threat to National Security dash primary School Children go have a listen. Well i think i know gives very well the view from beijing and the view there is basically a vast Conspiracy Theory where any sort of protest dissent is always because of mysterious Foreign Forces you know theres some back hands behind you made a cia maybe george soros maybe n. T. I. Its always these mysterious foreign d forces which are behind it but the truth is you know ive been there ive been protests ive been in many of these protests you know i think covering these protests i have friends whove been helping out as lawyers in these protests and the reality is almost overwhelmingly these are peaceful protests ordinary people that come out you know theres people who organized this of course but its not some mysterious black cat you know so this prodemocracy titians here of course this politicians and you know trees to organize but theres no evidence whatsoever that mysterious plot as you know beijings propaganda line which is to suggest gentlemen let me just bring in well you might very well limit that thats the time ratio there of just just give me just a tiny little pool as i can bring as an inch is about image and International Perspective people watching these protests spring up again in hong kong how do you explain what is happening. Well there was a lull because of the current a virus side say that if there wasnt a pandemic possibly the protests that have happened since jan last year would have been contained as whole time so many people thought that there was you know they were over the people had you know sort of had the agreement says address but actually that wasnt the case so whats really happening now is sort of a restart of those protests that stalled around jackanory when the pandemic star said its in hong kong and now theyre coming back to life again. Im going to show this to to use it and op askey say i want to show this to you wilson which is feed become a breaking thread this is official document of the hong kong National Security people d d and resolution these are some of the things that could be expected behavior per the petition of succession something state power terrorism and phone interference and im just going to say that he can see it clearly wilson festival why would this be necessary for home come. Its completely not necessary i think thats the point so what we have here is a decision by the chain to introduce these very vague concepts of you know. More foreign interference from the Mainland China where theyre being used to suppress dissidents suppress activists and then import them across the border into our car and thats that you know thats the danger of this you know this decision by beijing and whats more were in is is that its the fact that they are proposing to actually place mainland security agents in ha go to enforce these laws so after the laws are effectively there be no difference between your sofa the border north of the border would just become another city in china and that we no reason for any International Businesses n. G. O. S or media organizations to base themselves in. Well you know this is interesting you know wilson you always interject you 1st you said that i was. Taking mr theres Mysterious Forces i dont think so i think its the prodemocracy groups within hong kong or the mainstays if theyre receiving money from foreign groups i dont have any evidence of that not saying that but you know what if you start looking at the tactics you know people showing up magically in different areas of the city obviously it is very very well choreographed and i dont think you can deny that you know even when you started mentioning the number of people who have been arrested the official police tally is 300 you say 615 i dont know where that number comes from its kind of like the days when people are saying there are 2000000 people on the street but mathematically it was impossible to hit that number of people in that physical area so you know the least throwing these things out there and saying that somehow its theres no precedent for instance that there should be a National Security law well if youre a barrister you know better you know are you know that an exterior required to get hong kong simply to pass a National Security law that was never passed and now you have hong kong a city great city wonderful people has built an incredible reputation for International Trade but trade based mostly coming in and out of china and it is declining every day that the protesters out there maybe a lot of the foreigners who say that they they you know they support what youre saying theyre also taking their kids and their nannies and moving to singapore theyre moving their money outside so this idea that you know nothing is happening everything is normal you know having these protests is good when the city of hong kong is is in dire straits something needs to happen unless there is order all you have is a mob in the streets doing unspeakable things attacking people all right bashing shall most people i dont mind is not im not saying i know he i hear your perspective is about i mean a sentence on the next 3. I think what i was right was supposed to have a constitutional obligation to enact what is called article 23 which has its own local legislator National Security law but thats not what is happening here in a sense beijings ran out of patience why has a sledge the chair not been able to pass this law for so long and its just basically taken into its own hands which is goes back to what well so i say which is worrying because its bypassing the autonomy that the cities have so let me just bring in here just show one who has been a guest in the stream before people in hong kong know him as a pro democracy campaigner he is very fee for what may be happening to hong kong as have this. Hong kong or will be arrested by secret police face or trial and prosecution in Mainland China is that of hard core a lot of imprisoned in beijing or shanghai is that of hong kong as they are thats the nightmare there we are close and we call upon the International Community to oppose the national secretely law with the energies of version regulation step even you call upon the cities leader to step down or just ask for free election will be recognised and has a version by their oppressive active of beijing of crackdown on the holocaust protest movement is about a Living Hong Kong to you have concerns about what may happen if this National Security bill turns into a National Security in your. Yeah as a journalist and as someone who talks to. Activists so just not even people who really do anything that sensitive i mean the issue being that you dont really know what could be sensitive in the way that people in china often just disappear or get agents visiting them at their homes or in the case of many journalists have not had abuses or in you know just checked out our rightful transgressions that they may not even realize that they had been conducting its the vagaries of this law that really worry me as somebody who works in this profession and many other people who are not particularly political but also they dont know when they might say or do something that may have crossed the line that to me is the biggest worry. Let me just put this to you i know this is from the cool of enoch who is a new chief right now watching this discussion and and the coup is questioning if this is a diversion tactic by china to take its attention off the corona pandemic being investigated by other countries why isnt that a National Security nor now. Whats your thoughts about that well you know that is thats an excellent yes thats an excellent question i mean the timing comes into it because timing is always political and i think at this point china feels that its under attack on many different fronts whether its general john konkani taiwan the tibet south china seas they see people who are perceived not even if they actually are chinese being attacked in their cities around the world in countries that used to be friendly where there were no such attacks or very few of them and theres this kind of feeling that the people dont like us we have to watch out for ourselves and this is kind of what i hear from a lot of people here in beijing they just dont understand why everybody is acting this way and you know going back to what isabella said they feel that their own very strong legal grounds now remember. You know hong kong was have. And it over to china it was not handed over to Hong Kong Hong kong is not a separate country theres a transition period remember everything here started with one event and that is the british coming in and seizing by force military force hong kong and then using a succession of kind of gun to the ear. Proposed and up i mean agreements that were forced onto the Chinese Government to give 99 year leases so at the end of this period and it was all about the right to sell opium to the chinese because the british wanted t. V. And they couldnt pay for it and silver it wasnt enough so they came up with this idea that it would be better if there was some bilateral trade what they came up with was opium and they could grow it in other places and ship it to hong kong and earn money on well as i think the hissing at the lets keep us up to date with whats happening nationally bringing it in this summer china is only going to no i mean youre you cant just you cant just say oh you know terrible things are happening now you have to know that if you if you dont know its handed back to china after being forcibly taken you could see this as somehow this is a country that in a 2nd area that is under attack by not going yeah i mean again legacy of colonialism let me let me share this with me from the South China Morning Post thailand is the chief executive of hong kong under the spotlight once again and this is what she sings here most and we are very free society so for the time being people have the freedom to say whatever they want to send me as interesting for the time being what he think of her i think under National Security. She seems to be in agreement with it. But a cynic wish it would of course we havent see any opposition from the government and i think thats exactly the problem you know that d the of their supposed tanami between hong kong and china you know that was what set out in the british you know chinese joint declaration but what were seeing now is a Hong Kong Government which essentially just runs to the to another whatever beijing does and its also interesting in when she answered she said for the time being and in fact when journalists questioned her further what acts civically would be not you know for example d the annual tenement massacre vigil d appears to allow or just completely unable to answer and thats because even she doesnt know whats going to be in the draft law which is all being drafted up you know in a closed room in beijing i would have been here yes she won she said China Research of the Human Rights Watch and she is thinking the worst of the situation of the hong kong as of right now this is what she told the scene earlier. A new National Security law do you know deadly blow to the right people in hong kong in the past several days 7 talking to activists and human rights lawyers in hong kong there are asking me whether they should believe the city bailout still match because free thing youre not the crew to be prosecuted and go to jail for speaking critically the Hong Kong Government for speaking critically of the Chinese Communist party and from going to the street to protest is about what do you him from protesters that youre speaking to. I got she younger one i think being arrested is almost sort of course i mean as someone. 8000. 00 more than actually were arrested so the chances of being arrested for just like standing around a protest is pretty high and the young people sort of like an hour will never be able to come out again maybe some of the older people are a bit more for coming out you know that dont want to be arrested but the best theyre doing what they might donate money to some of the. People who are stupid or are they. To do something. I think people feel pretty helpless because you know the fight is now with beijing and the Hong Kong Government as wilson said d its pretty worrying it seems like the Hong Kong Government the city in which this act is being implemented still doesnt know whats going to be in it so it just seems like something thats being you know for the people of hong kong with. Really from people here see i know you sitting in beijing and wilson is in hong kong do you detect a difference of opinion coming through beijing compared to the people who are living in hong kong. Oh absolutely i mean they dont understand it hong kong doesnt for instance it doesnt pay taxes to the mainland and fact its the other way around money goes to hong kong not 1. 00 penny of tax from hong kong goes and into the city and theyve been able to maintain a very very generous tax. You know great in hong kong which is attracted a lot of people but you know this idea that somehow people are being rounded up on the streets at random yeah i think that you know both both isabelle and wilson want it better that not true you have to be caring about people not knowing where things are happening beings like that so im not sure i disagree with that if youre standing it with that character and. Not show up in greece i have d quite a fun friends who live in hong kong and they eat chips actually took went down and took pictures of them and we were discussing it today the schoolchildren i said well it looks like a pretty much this is going to be the headline the propaganda maker for the day and he said i said arent you concerned about being arrested he said no not at all and i mean this is what i dont understand theres this kind of both isabel mustnt you have to admit after a year of these protests the economy going down tourism leaving people losing their jobs where it is hong kongs future its fine for you know your friends who are lawyers and they have money those 2000000 they can leave but out of the 7w5w have nowhere to go and if they have you know your jobs and theres no going or what is going to happen to them is theres just you just i mean ignore that and say this is some sort of accidental or not any one thing of instability do you have to admit that there have. Well i think that once again we need a political solution here and that forcing something is not its not a going to end the protests and it be its not really going to make all these people who are you know upset at the local government and they dont really want to have you know the Chinese Communist party implementing roll directly from beijing over the. You know many many people since last year have shown that actually a majority of people support the protests in some way that conducted by universities professional polling organizations you can debate the veracity of them with a bias of that but you know many people you know 5060 percent whatever if they go are not happy something has to be done about them not being happy and i think ramming a lot of peoples hearts doesnt fix the problem its just a bandaid. I want to put together what do you what do you propose. I mean id like to hear. But i dont like this what would you propose doing while a normal functioning new legislature with you know multiple parties would have people assigned all to you are the. You just pointed out that its not normally functioning it was required in 1907 to pass the security law it also under an extremely has to obey the laws of china as respecting the flag none of that is happening so if it is about the rule of law all right and youre proposing that quote things being normal then in that case you have to insist on both sides of equation you can say the rule of law is only for completing it to me when i want something as opposed to what things that im required to do for instance attacking both neither one of you supporting the use of by lance against people you know box cutters and being used to attack policeman in cinderella vices that bloody stand off. In your system good stuff all part of democracy all part of normal now i think were i think what ringback i was forgetting i think listen to what i think what yeah i think one thing that i know keeps forgetting to mention is that in the basic law in the deal that was reached between the article people and china it was a guarantee that it was not readers of your clients the hong kong people that is famous it was the idea that completely incorrect there was no signature by the hong kong people it was a hand. Me to finish it or not and the government. Interrupts i mean somebody how. Stupid that you know we should have a huge chemical tie. In the constitution which was actually drafted by beijing itself the d basic law theres a guarantee that the end ultimate goal would be government by universal suffrage d now the problem that has happened in the past 27 years is that theres been no moves no real moves towards this universal suffrage and thats caused the problem because you have this government that carrier and government which is essentially handpicked by beijing it has no representative legitimacy its popularity hovers around d 20 percent so whatever it does is not a member sent to the hall there was i dont want to mention wilson youre already said i havent will just take the science where it suits you notions that are not going to be you know and im curious because article what if im going to school clearly any specific directive Amnesty International guests just just image because what was the end of the shah singh sneakers is the asia pacific directive Amnesty International wilson n n is about a ritual king and youll tool about quite a daya consequences for Hong Kong Nicholas doesnt think include the same way as have a listen right he needs 2000 who said its the end of hong kong. Come as a lot of resilience i love a way to not start at least slow down the translation of this mainland of the dream concept into a legal system that is fundamentally a rule of law system designed to protect basic right thing creating human rights was in the right at the end of the shows i just want to give you the final word if i may and it will be a sentence this National Security in your bill excuse me will it become annoying your opinion. It will unless there is sufficient International Pressure to tell beijing that this is a terrible terrible idea. And as an International Financial center will send i know it is a battle thank you very much for talking to us about the National Security bill the protests in hong kong right now who need time theres never enough times to pass updates on this train so we also had an extra be on the instagram some day through to wednesday at 1630. 00 g. M. T. And so watching everybody to. 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