Hello im adrian figure this is counting the cost on aljazeera a weekly look at the world of business economics this week as the g 20 offers a debt payment holidays of the worlds poorest nations to fight the coronavirus pandemic is it time for private investors to do the same. Southeast asia as garment workers in the industry pay a heavy price of the pandemic millions of jobs have been lost despite patchy government support. And the sharia compliant tech start ups scrapping for a bigger share of indonesias multibillion dollar finance industry. May 1st was an important day for the worlds poorest nations it was the day that the rich club of g. 20 nations gave debtors a payment holiday until the end of the year the hope is that debtor nations can use the money to pay for health care during the pandemic despite more than 100 countries applying to the International Monetary fund for emergency aid the i. M. F. And world bank havent been so generous insisting that nations keep paying interest on debt although the i. M. F. Has offered some relief to 25. 00 poor nations which amounts to 200000000000. 00 which lets face it isnt that much of nations really do need help nigeria has received 3 point 4000000000. 00 from the i. M. F. With debts of only 30 percent of g d. Youd think the country couldnt get into trouble but its dependent upon oil for 90 percent of its export earnings with crude prices cratering it has little room to service its debt which is estimated to take up to 2 thirds of its retained revenue there are other nations with precarious finances from argentina to ecuador lebanon to venezuela and the records for the private sector Industry Worth 22. 00 trillion dollars to give countries a payment holiday during the pandemic in an op ed in the Financial Times the saudi finance minister Mohammad Al Jardine said that private institutions owed 18000000000. 00 by the worlds poorest nations this year if they were to spend half that amount that would provide an additional 9000000000. 00 to fight the pervert 1000. 00 pandemic lets put that rodrigo nevadas kemah now hes a professor of banking and finance law at an expert in sovereign debt at Queen Mary University in london professor good to have you with us so governments are doing their bit should the private sector step in and offer debt relief to emerging markets well adrian and if we need to be careful how we define it really is i guess the in my understanding that east that private sector interest give some breathing space who will race but the reality that we need to go and see there we were in mind money. And on each note of our Debt Forgiveness is about allowing countries with color and all of the. d league asian that that would be might be a private sector understand the value of the problem of the thing they need to be part of the solution but what we need to bear in mind would be the unintended consequence of this. If we ask for all of the forgiveness because then when this company to bark bark they will eat of the financing of you who is in pauls america or d cancellation of the debts of the private sector then they will not be willing to lend again what why professor should taxpayers be willing to take a haircut private investors not so well because what you need to bear in mind that it probably best those bather taxes on while and they have money in excess they invest in security using their ether and or other countries to help them find out their needs so all is this is money in excess that savers are holding on the side to help other countries that werent well you need to bear in mind that on those of you are trying to force erica. Who dont live savings for retirement for example at a time like this a pandemic unprecedented in the modern era surely we should all be setting aside the rule book after all im a huge debts are going to be the norm for many of the worlds richest nations for many years to come now arent they definitely but there are 2 things that we need to distinguish because most of the best of these that are redundant im all of the dead have been used to finance specific projects. So all i understand the severity of the pandemic and i understand thats why i have no doubt whatsoever that breathing space to really gain an artist to find out and to allow the project to generate the necessary guys for them to be that they need it but im not sure that really. Are the right ready. Constellation of their it their way for people what you need to understand. Its like if you go to bond to borrow money to buy a house and then you decide that youre not going to pay the debt of the bond or if you happen to be selling Raw Materials to a bit and then the bill has been rather say look this up and then we will not pay for the. Browser youve been delivering to me its it will be kind of going biking to complete anarchy explain something for me professor why is it that rich nations can increase their debts with minimum fuss and yet poorer nations cant do so without triggering inflationary pressures or or storing up trouble further down the road im not sure that that statement is completely rather we view look at italy at the moment it italy. It is appalling to is why you i think if you will it doesnt within the developed countries are willing to lay out their experiencing some harsh to bare bones are one notch of our territory its all i think of basically developing the believe in countries in the harshly in the same way the only issue in the developing countries is hold our visionaries that are different the reason have to do we call the us that really the. Who we are. Corrupt shown are there other underlying problems that need to be addressed but its not purely up to the will to financially shoot are some of these countries yet they are they have been highly indebted or very fragile broke through the crisis do you think that the world bank and the i. M. F. Have the financial muscle or 2 to help every country that requires that kind of assistance at the moment the u. S. Was against providing additional funding to the the i. M. F. Why was that and would that increase in special drawing rights have been disproportionately beneficial to china or iran is and im very happy that you are this question because this sort of goes back to my initial argument that an. These countries need the private sector the malls because whilst the bombs but will again while the band only over and then they need to recall their underrate they need to read write their finances all the small and Medium Sized Enterprises that well and they will have to resort to the private sector because i personally think that the i. M. F. The world bank would have to use their firepower their ammunition and leave our countries now doing the pandemic but after the pandemic it has passed after those resources have been depleted who are going to be financing. Kick start of the economy and that but beside me where i think that the private sector needs to look i mean and thats why i think that basically being while you receive we private sector from the outside will not allow them to be there one day they will be more professor its really good to talk to your account of the cost many thanks indeed for being with us. You. Know it is of course ramadan a time not only for fasting in the muslim world but also for Charitable Giving its also an opportunity for the fledgling sheriff in texas who are battling over the billions of dollars that muslims give to charitable causes particularly if indeed he is here the most populous muslim majority country with 270000000 people half of whom black Bank Accounts but do have mobile phones all forms of Islamic Banking account for just 6 percent of indonesias 580000000000. 00 in banking assets so you can see theres huge room for growth its such an important market but google has backed the countrys biggest payment wallet go pay. Im hoping to get a bigger share of the islamic finance market in the knees here if the chief executive of peer to peer lending a law means david to johnny joins us now via skype from jakarta good to have you with us on the program why is it is that what does this seem to be at the moment such as a gold rush for sharia compliant funding sure i think one of the key reason is actually growing islamic life here especially need we coined terms here he Germ Movement whereby a person would like to become a better person as a muslim i think this is also and to defect that there is a more social media and fluence and this impact actually several areas of their life but thats a fashion and obviously it will go into the financial so i think that will be the primary reason secondary reason would be the government push to really push in the knee said to become the sharia Financial Hub in the world and to this point the Vice President himself is actually leading these 2 to become making a nice well known in this space its still a drop in the ocean though when you compare it to the entire Banking Sector why did you possibly decide to this was the way you wanted to go that this was for you i think coming in through the tech Business Model using technology to really rich this growing gap between the demand and the supply is crucial because what we see is that youre right that the industry only represent about 6 percent of the total banking market in indonesia however from our perspective we believe that the market is actually way bigger than that and those markets are underserved by mid existing banks so were trying to understand. And like what would be the reason that the banks couldnt capture this market and the primary reason 2 of them is actually one is the branding theres a lot of millenia else especially we would like to see an very independent slum a bank without the conventional bank as a parent bank for example so they would move towards in fact for that and the 2nd is the lack of Technology Innovation by did a slam bang bang as compared to the conventional banks so the customers is actually longing for an Innovative Solution and i think start of a model and in fact could be the bridge to the sufis latest. So sharia products different from from normal loans when when you make a loan. What happens whats different from from a normal bank so i think the main difference is that in islamic finance typically you have the buy and sell structure whereby the financial can buy 1st and felt at the margin so that that margin or the profit is fixed and then the 2nd structure is the profit and sharing structure where the funder would get either the returns or if god forbid its the last so. The key difference for me personally economy. While the interest and come in conventional banks and the margin or profits in this climate bank might be similar but the concept of compounding interest or interest itself but because of the clinic compounding part of it is not exist and islamic finance so if i were to borrow 100. 00 in any case of late payment you will not get the role then suddenly i owe 200. 00 i still got over. That 100. 00 plus 10. 00 for example would be spend dollars will be fixed so i think thats kind of the demand difference economically from my perspective you mentioned the Vice President and his supporters and really how supportive all of the shariah compliant ecosystem is the government i think we are seeing very strong support over the past one of the one to 2 years i personally met with a deVice President as part of the associate a couple of months ago and he reiterated that he has some push to to really. Spearheading this this in this just defended this development. And hes also chairing this case and e. K. S. Which is the new organization formed to accelerate the development of syria economy and finance here in indonesia were seeing a couple of minutes just by the organization to a specialist 2. In this pandemic that doesnt stop still finance part of it like that and. Thats. With the pandemic how are you supporting people that youve given loans to any of them expressed difficulty in repaying their loans why now so basically for our pride. Our program right now is in place financing sarah complaints but financing so we dont really see a lot of. Late payment for that because we are selective lead choosing our borrowers we also have certain borrowers ready in certain sectors that is greatly affect that bed and that makes. Some of them come came to us to us for like restructuring were reviewing that however its still below 5 percent of our total portfolio i think to the best of our abilities we help them we assist them and as the peer to peer we also bridge their requests to our funders so we cross fund our debt from retail and institutions so we are becoming the middleman and a very professional middleman too to really conveying that message back and forth between the borrowers and our lenders really has talked to so many thanks for being with us on counting the cost of the johnnie that in jakarta. Thank you very much as. The pandemic has had a disastrous impact on Southeast Asias Garment Manufacturing hubs a 1000000 workers have been laid off according to Risk Consultancy mabel croft despite some factories reopening in bangladesh there are still fears that not enough is being done for people who live from paycheck to paycheck aljazeera has turned their child free has more from dhaka. In bangladesh more than 4100000 people are employed making clothes mostly woman but because of the coronavirus pandemic many now fear they could lose their jobs fatima cotton is a divorcee with 2 family members who depends on her income and she is worried. That. If the factory closes would be very hard for me to manage things i take care of the rent my sons education and mothers treatment to the government is that they should come up with some sort of solution for us in such a situation. The finance minister says bangladesh could lose 1 point one percent of its g. D. P. During the outbreak and then theyre still area of dhaka you can sense. The streets are empty and many of the factors that close their doors. A stewardess to come next. Industry leaders say the situation could warse. Out of the 4200. 00 only 880. 00 factories and so far in order to losses a 2940000000. 00 so you can well imagine the impact will be stuck with the goods there will be no payment we have no certainty no what assurance from anybody that theyre going to be taking it. All so all our lives for are that reagan accessory everythings lighting up as well so the Immediate Impact is basically the workers lives the garmin manufacturers an export has objects members to consider shutting their factories to limit the spread of the corona virus but those who planned to make personal protective gear to fight the pandemic can remain open and showing workers stay safe im not going to want to go to a kind of the concept of we feel that as long as they are in the factory in a safe our factories im intending safety in or aspects before entering that everyone has to go through all hygiene procedures etc. Economics done Business Experts say that the government must allocate funds to help those who becomes jobless specially if they are on low incomes Prime MinisterSheikh Hasina has announced plans for a stimulus package of 589 1000000. 00 for the industry to overcome the fallout but for those who live from one paycheck to another that seems to offer little immediate relief tundra chaudhry ill just dhaka bangladesh. 40000000. 00 government workers are employed by the industry in countries such as cambodia bangladesh indonesia and vietnam and there are real fears that labor rights could unravel sophia zalia is a human rights analyst at maple cross she joins us now from singapore good to have you with us. Severe a hugely important sector for Southeast Asia but what do these rapid job losses mean for the region and more importantly of course labor rights. Yes and thanks for having me well i think for us to put it into context you know many of these common manufacturing hubs have poor i mean were rights reports to begin with so our various people profits shows that you know countries such as cambodia indonesia. They often report the highest risks in terms of forced labor child labor and i the key libor issue so i think this if we should that we have now the corporate 90 minute epic is that were seeing as youve mentioned you know message amounts of layoffs across the nation i mean industry and i think the important thing to note here is that as workers i mean sell to unemployed the me the enter into more in exploitative. Forms of employment so for example that could result in a greater risk of forced labor as well as debt pointed and you know in certain cases even Human Trafficking so its you know workers and not also increasingly quite in a position where winced as that insect is reopened across. Asia in Common Industries we have a situation where workers are quite between having to rejoin the workforce and potentially put themselves in a position at a higher risk of transmission of the virus in the event of being put in you know crammed in haiti make factories or the option the other option would be not to you know my favorite so its a really pretty difficult position for workers that the moment theyre also facing. Which losses you know im under p. M. A. No we just to them so liberates for the gum in fact its not looking great at the moment so these companies are mostly making garments for stores that dominate west and high streets those stores in the companies behind them of any responsibility towards those government workers in these countries well i think in an. Show i mean yes to a citizen extend these Global Retail companies to have for response both the especially for the most vulnerable orcus in their Global Supply chain u. B. C. Already Global Retail brands reacting to scrutiny and pressure from International Media groups and other human rights organizations we see some retail brands setting up over 1000 which fines for the most vulnerable of workers weve also seen employers or Companies Making commitments to not default on p. Mints for orders that they had to face previously so they said life plans given to come in workers but we think that theyre more important a long Term Solution he really lays in these Global Retail brands working with stakeholders on the ground so when did that National Governments themselves they are of course a crucial partner but labor groups that represent us workers as well so it requires a process of long term collaboration to be able to address this really serious economic grievances that common workers are currently facing what about the countries in these governments is anyone apart from cambodia offering support to government workers do they even have the financial headroom headroom to do so so you know as if you know stimulus packages have been implemented by more stuff these gunmen factory hubs they were looking at India Bangladesh and asia have all implemented it different packages obvious difference in stimulus packages time to think of low income workers of course government workers are part of that i think we have. So you believe the important thing to really to note with the government sector is that there crucially theyre really reliant on informal workers so these informal orcus may find it difficulties accessing that type of virus related Financial Aid that the government is giving primarily because theyre finding it difficult or impossible you get to provide proof of employment so i think moving forward our Retail Companies really have to grapple beef this runway and its on informal work as it were in order well in terms of you know in the rights in an unprecedented crisis such as this so thats really an issue and so so financial headroom for different governments dont bail packages are short Term Solutions governments can for now provide some aid to factories theyre struggling to pay their workers but you know theres a limit to how much heat this can be given 7 point factories the site to lend to its into once borrowing and this in itself is obviously unsustainable so i think you know its not as easy as it is the situation right now for retail their Retail Sector their fighting fires so many fronts not only being on survival to their workers but also you know facing supply chain destructions and so on so if there arent any easy solutions and unfortunately so fair really good still too many thanks to you for being with us on counting the cost thank you. Thats our show for this week if youd like to comment on anything youve seen you can tweet me im at a finnigan on twitter please use the hash tag a. J. C. To see what you do or you could drop us a line count of a cost of aljazeera dot net as our email address theres plenty more for you online at aljazeera dot com slash sci fi see that takes you straight to our web page and there youll find individual reports links event episodes for you to catch up but as thats it for this edition of counting the cost im Adrian Finnegan for the whole team here in doha thanks for being with us the news on aljazeera this point. Frank assessments wise its really struggling to cope with the number of coronavirus to take really aggressive action and it hurt and in depth analysis of the dates global headlines inside story on aljazeera. On the move again france and spain start lifting some of the toughest coronavirus restrictions in europe. I robot this and this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up so idea of arabia slashes budgets and increases taxes as it deals with record low oil prices on the coronavirus pandemic. A missile mistake by irans navy 19 sailors are killed as a warship hits a vessel from