When you saw that document for the 1st story we listen to after world war saying youll be in to go build United States of you but we will not be with you we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on the ground 0. Hello im adrian figure this is counting the cost on aljazeera a weekly look at the world of business economics this week as the g 20. 00 offers a debt payment holiday to the worlds poorest nations to fight the coronavirus pandemic is it time for private investors to do the same. Southeast asia as garment workers in the industry pay a heavy price due to the pandemic millions of jobs have been lost despite patchy government support. The sharia compliant tech start ups scrapping for a bigger share of indonesias multibillion dollar finance industry. May 1st was an important day for the worlds poorest nations it was the day that the rich club of g. 20 nations gave debtors a payment holiday until the end of the year the hope is that debtor nations can use the money to pay for health care during the pandemic despite more than 100 countries applying to the International Monetary fund for emergency aid the i. M. F. And world bank havent been so generous insisting that nations keep repaying interest on debt although the i. M. F. Has offered some relief to 25. 00 poor nations which amounts to 200000000000. 00 which lets face it isnt that much. A basins really do need help nigeria has received 3400000000. 00 from the i. M. F. With debts of only 30 percent of g. D. P. Youd think the country couldnt get into trouble but its dependent upon oil for 90 percent of its export earnings with crude prices cratering it has little room to service its debt which is estimated to take up to 2 thirds of its retained revenue there are other nations with precarious finances from argentina to ecuador lebanon to venezuela and the records for the private sector Industry Worth 22. 00 trillion dollars to give countries a payment holiday during the pandemic in an op ed in the Financial Times the saudi finance minister Mohammad Al Jardine said that private institutions are over 18000000000. 00 by the worlds poorest nations this year if they were to spend half that amount that would provide an additional 9000000000. 00 to fight the pervert 19 pandemic lets put that rodrigo nevadas kemah now hes a professor of banking and finance law at an expert in sovereign debt at Queen Mary University in london professor good to have you with us so governments are doing their bit should the private sector step in and offer debt relief to emerging markets well adrian and if we need to be careful how we define it really is i guess the in my understanding that east that private sector interest give some breathing space who still reigns but the reality that we need to go and see there will be wearing mind money. And on each note of our Debt Forgiveness is about allowing countries that would call or an owner of the. d league asian that would be might be a private sector understands that money to the problem of the thing they need to be part of the solution but what we need to bear in mind would be the unintended consequence of this. If we ask for all of the forgiveness because then when this company to bark bark they will eat of the financing of you who is in pauls america or d cancellation of the debts of the private sector then they will not be willing to lend again what why professor should taxpayers be willing to take a haircut private investors not so well because what you need to bear in mind that these private investors bather taxes on while and they have money in excess they invest in security using their instrument or other countries to help them find their needs so all is this is money in excess that savers are holding on the side to help other countries that went well you need to bear in mind that on those of you are trying to force erica although all the life savings for retirement for example at a time like this a pandemic unprecedented in the modern era surely we should all be setting aside the rule book after all im a huge debts are going to be the norm for many of the worlds richest nations for many years to come now arent they definitely but there are 2 things that we need to distinguish because most of the beds of these that are redundant im all of the dead have been used to finance specific projects. So all i understand the severity of the pandemic and i understand thats why i have no doubt whatsoever that breathing space to really gain. Are just refine out on to allow the project to generate the necessary guys for them to be that they need it but im not sure that really. Are the right ready. Constellation of their it their way for because what you need to understand me that its like if you go to bond to borrow money to buy a house and then you decide that youre not going to pay that debt to the bottom or if you happen to be selling Raw Materials to our base and then the business d there are say look theres a pandemic will not pay for the. Browser youve been delivering to me its it will be kind of going biking tools complete honor to explain something for me professor why is it that rich nations can increase their debts with minimum fuss and yet poorer nations cant do so without triggering inflationary pressures or or storing up trouble for further down the road im not sure that that doesnt start a mini completely run if you look at italy at the moment in italy. According to. A y u i think as you will it doesnt within these countries i think that they are experiencing some hard. Won knowledge of our junk territory so i think the vision to develop on developing countries feel that harshly in the same way the only issue in the developing countries all Additional Research that are different. Really that have to do with all of the stability is really who we. Are corrupt sure there are other underlying problems that need to be addressed but its not purely up to that was who financially should some of these countries yet they have been highly indebted or very fragile right do you think that the world bank and the i. M. F. Have the financial muscle to to help every country that requires that kind of assistance at the moment the u. S. Was against providing additional funding to the the i. M. F. Why was that and would that increase in special drawing rights have been disproportionately beneficial to china or iran is and im very happy that you have this question because this circles back to my initial argument that. These countries need the private sector the malls because whilst the bombs but will again while the band only get over and then they need to recall their underrate they need to read. The finances all the small and Medium Sized Enterprises that well and they will have to resort to the private sector because i personally think that the i. M. F. The world bank would have to use their firepower their ammunition gave up countries now doing the pandemic but after that when they need it has passed after those resources have been depleted who is going to be financing. Kick start of the economy and that beside me where i think that the private sector needs to look i mean and thats why i think that basically being while derisive private sector from the outside will not allow them to be there one day they will be more professor its really good to talk to one count of the cost many thanks indeed for being with us thank you. Know it is of course ramadan a time not only for fasting in the muslim world but also for Charitable Giving its also an opportunity for the fledgling sheriff in texas who are battling over the billions of dollars that muslims give to charitable causes particularly indonesia the most populous muslim majority country with 270000000 people half of whom lack Bank Accounts but do have mobile phones all forms of Islamic Banking account for just 6 percent of indonesias 580000000000. 00 in banking assets so you can see theres huge room for growth its such an important market that google has backed the countrys biggest payment wallet go pay. Im hoping to get a bigger share of the islamic finance market in these here if the chief executive of peer to peer lending a law means david johnny joins us now via skype from jakarta good to have you with us on the program why is is that what does this seem to be at the moment such as a gold rush for sharia compliant funding sure i think one of the key reason is actually growing islamic life here especially need we coined terms here he Germ Movement whereby a person would like to become a better person as a muslim i think this is also and to defect that theres a more social media lens and this impact actually several areas of their life but thats a fashion and obviously it will go into the financial so i think that will be the primary reason secondary reason would be the government push to really push in the knee said to be calm there this arena Financial Hub in the world and to this point the Vice President himself is actually leading these 2 to become the making to share well known in this space its still a drop in the ocean though when you compare it to the entire Banking Sector why did you possibly decide to this was the way you wanted to go that this was for you i think coming through these tech Business Model using technology to really rich this growing gap between the demand and the supply is crucial because what we see is that your right to Islamic Banking industry only represent about 6 percent of the total banking market in indonesia however from our perspective we believe that the market is actually way bigger than that and those markets are underserved by mid existing banks so were trying to understand. And like what would be the reason that the banks couldnt capture this market and the primary reason 2 of them is actually one is the branding theres a lot of millenia else especially we would like to see an very independent a slum a bank without the conventional bank as a parent bank for example so they would move towards been sacked for that and the 2nd is the lack of Technology Innovation by did a slam bang bang as compared to the conventional banks so the customers is actually longing for an Innovative Solution and i think its part of a model and in fact could be the bridge to the sufis latest. Arent so sure products differ from from normal loans when when you make a loan. What happens whats different from from a normal bank so i think the main difference is that in islamic finance typically you have the buy and sell structure whereby the financial can buy 1st and felt at the margin so that that margin or net profit is fixed and then the 2nd structure is the profit and sharing structure where the funder would get either the returns or if god forbid the loss so. The key difference for me personally economy really speaking while the interest and come in conventional banks and the margin or profit in islamic bank might be similar but the concept of compounding interest or interest itself but because of the clean the compounding part of it is not exist and islamic finance so if i were to borrow 100. 00 in any case of late payment you will not get through that sudden the 300. 00 i still dont know or. That 100. 00 plus 10. 00 for example and this 10. 00 will be fixed so i think that kind of the the main difference economy clearly from my perspective you mentioned the Vice President and his support generally how supportive of the shariah compliant ecosystem is the government there i think were seeing a very strong support over the past 11 to 2 years i personally met with the Vice President as part of. A couple of months ago and he reiterated that he has some push to to really. Spearhead this this in this just defended development. And hes also chairing this case and the k. S. Which is the new organization formed to accelerate the development of syria economy and finance here in indonesia were seeing a couple of minutes just by the organization to a specialist 2. In this pandemic practice and social finance part of that. And. Thats. With the pandemic how are you supporting people that youve given loans to if any of them expressed difficulty in repaying their loans why now so basically for our pride. Our program right now is in voice financing caricom plans but financing so we dont really see a lot of. Late payment for that because we are selective lead choosing our borrowers we also have certain borrowers ready in certain sectors that is greatly affect that med and that make. Some of them come came to us to us for like restructuring were reviewing that however its still below 5 percent of our total portfolio i think to the best of our abilities we help them we assist them and as the peer to peer we also bridge their request to our funders so we close our debt from retail and institutions so we are becoming the middleman and a very professional middleman too to really conveying that message back and forth between the borrowers and our lenders really has talked to so many thanks for being with us on counting the cost of the johnnie that in jakarta. Thank you very much and the pandemic has had a disastrous impact on Southeast Asias Garment Manufacturing hubs a 1000000 workers have been laid off according to Risk Consultancy maple croft despite some factories reopening in bangladesh there are still fears that not enough is being done for people who live from paycheck to paycheck aljazeera stand their child free has more from dhaka. In bangladesh more than 4100000 people are employed making clothes mostly woman but because of the coronavirus pandemic many now fear they could lose their jobs fatima cotton is a divorcee with 2 family members who depends on her income and she is worried. That if the factory closes would be very hard for me to manage things i take care of the rent my sons education and mothers treatment to the government is that they should come up at some sort of solution for us in such a situation. The finance minister says bangladesh could lose 1 point one percent of its g. D. P. During the outbreak and then theyre still area of dhaka you can sense. The streets are empty and many of the factors that close their doors. As to what is to come next Industry Leaders say the situation could worsen. Out of 4200. 00 only 880. 00 factories and so far in order to losses a 2940000000. 00 so you can well imagine the impact will be stuck with the goods there will be no payment we have no certainty no what assurance from anybody that theyre going to be taking it. All so all our lives or are that reagan accessory everythings lining up as well so the Immediate Impact is basically the workers lives the garment manufacturers an export hers has objects members to consider shutting their factories to limit the spread of the corona virus but those who planned to make personal protective gear to fight the pandemic can remain open and showing workers stay safe im not going to want to go to a kind of the concept of can we feel that as long as they are in the factory in a safe our factories im intending safety in or aspects before entering everyone has to go through all hygiene procedures and most of its it from. Economics done Business Experts say that the government must allocate funds to help those who becomes jobless specially if they are on low incomes Prime Minister shake us in has announced plans for a stimulus package of 580 9000000. 00 for the industry to overcome the fallout but for those who live from one paycheck to another that seems to offer little immediate relief tender child 3 ill just Dhaka Bangladesh 40000000. 00 garment workers are employed by the industry in countries such as cambodia bangladesh indonesia myanmar and vietnam and there are real fears that labor rights could unravel sophia natalya is a human rights analyst at maple cross she joins us now from singapore good to have you with us. Severe a hugely important sector for Southeast Asia but what do these rapid job losses mean for the region and more importantly of course labor rights. Yes and thanks for having me well i think for us to put it into context you know many of these common manufacturing hubs have poor me were rights reports to begin with so our various people profits shows that you know countries such as cambodia indonesia bangladesh they often report the highest risks in terms of forced labor child labor and i think key libor issues so i think this if we should that we have now the crop in 1000 demick is that were seeing as youve mentioned you know meserve amounts of layoffs across the nation i mean industry and i think the important thing to note here is that as workers i dont insult unemployed the me the enter into more impact exploitative. Forms of employment so for example that could result in a greater risk of forced labor as well as debt pointed and you know in certain cases even Human Trafficking so its you know workers and not also increasingly hes quite in a position where winced as it insect is reopened across. Asia in Common Industries we have a situation where workers are quite between having to rejoin the workforce and potentially put themselves in a position at a higher risk of transmission of the virus in the event of being put in you know crammed in haiti to expect troops or the option the other option would be not to you know lightly hit so its a really pretty difficult position for work is that the moment theyre also facing. We you know im under pieman of we just to them so liberates for the gum in fact its not looking great at the moment so these companies are mostly making garments for stores that dominate west and high streets those stores in the companies behind them of any responsibility towards those government workers in these countries well i think in an. I mean yes to us its an extend these Global Retail companies to have for response both the especially for the most vulnerable orcas in their Global Supply chain u. B. C. Already Global Retail brands reacting to scrutiny and pressure from International Media groups and other human rights organizations we see some retail brands setting up over 1000 which fines for the most vulnerable of workers weve also seen employers or Companies Making commitments to not default on p. Mints for orders that they had to face previously so they said lifelines given to come in workers but we think that theyre more important a long Term Solution he really lays in these Global Retail brands working with stakeholders on the ground so when did that the National Governments themselves they are of course a crucial partner but labor groups that represent us workers as well so it requires a process of long term collaboration to be able to address this really serious economic grievances that common workers are currently facing what about the countries in these governments is anyone apart from cambodia offering support to government workers do they even have the financial headroom headroom to do so so you know as if you know stimulus packages have been implemented by more stuff these gunmen factory hubs that were looking at India Bangladesh and asia have all implemented it different packages obvious difference in stimulus packages time to think of low income workers of course government workers are part of that i think we if. Even the important thing to really know it with the government sector is that theyre crucially theyre really reliant on informal workers so these informal or kiss me fine difficulties accessing that type of coronavirus related Financial Aid that the government is giving primarily because theyre finding it difficult or impossible used it to provide proof of employment so i think moving forward our Retail Companies really have to grapple beef this reliance on informal work as it were in order well in terms of you know in the rights in an unprecedented crisis such as this so you know thats really an issue and so so financial headroom for different governments dont bail packages are short Term Solutions governments can for now provide some aid to factories that are struggling to pay their workers but you know theres a limit to how much the this that can be given simply factories may start to lend when its into once borrowing and this in itself is obviously unsustainable so i think you know its not as easy easy situation right now for a Retail Retail sector theyre fighting fires so many fronts not only being uncivil to their workers but also you know facing supply chain destructions and so on so if there arent any easy solutions and unfortunately sophia really good still to many thanks to you for being with us on comes in the cost thank you. Thats for this week if youd like to comment on anything youve seen you can tweet me. On twitter the place used the hash tag a. J. C. To see what you do or you could drop us a line of a cost of. Email address theres plenty more for you online at www dot com slash c. C. C. That takes you straight to our web page and there youll find individual reports links event episodes for you to catch up but thats it for this edition of counting the cost. From the whole team here in doha thanks for being with us the news on aljazeera. The way disease outbreaks have impacted dense urban areas like during the flu pandemic in the early 1900 has played a role in how our cities look and run urban planners reacted to that flu and other outbreaks changing how cities were zoned and led to updated infrastructure like ventilation and improved sanitation but after whats been learned from pandemics and there includes honor skylines and way of life we also need to keep pace and adapt its easy to assume that cities are Fertile Ground for spreading viruses and diseases millions living working at commuting in such conditions one expert says its about much more than just density its about how all this was put together and how its run. They wanted 43000000000 pounds with a weapon that was 6000000000 pounds in commission. Theres no any more because theres always a small. Really really good mystery. In essence we in the United States have. A Public Function more shadow on aljazeera. Be the hero world needs right. Washington. 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