Aljazeera bringing the news and Current Affairs that matter to. Disney. Why is the 1000000 mom military stepping up attacks on ethnic rebel groups the un says almost daily airstrikes on 2 states have killed dozens while calls for a ceasefire being ignored this is inside stuart. Hello welcome to the program im burnt. Theres been much attention on the man ma military campaign against the wrecking a crackdown on the mainly Muslim Minority described by the un as genocidal but over the past few weeks the myanmar army has stepped up attacks on ethnic groups such as the ara can army mainly buddhist fighters fighting for greater autonomy dorset reports. Under attack and forced from their homes in myanmar these people had to leave their villages in record state when fighting intensified between Government Forces and the Ethnic Armed Group called the air con army the un and it hardly there was an airstrike they fired on to our Village Homes were burnt at hilarys shells hit our houses your heloc you know where the soldiers and to our village and we didnt want to run into them so we ran away attacks have increased in the Northern State over the past 3 weeks and in the Western State of chen the u. N. Says at least 32 people have died in almost daily airstrikes and shelling in both states where soldiers are accused of burning down schools and homes local reports say 8 people died in an attack on a village on monday myanmars military commanders rejected the allegations as fake its been hard to get clear information on whats happening further complicating the situation has been an internet blackout believe its the longest in the world. And knowing townships across rakhine and chin state since june 29th. Not far off or you know the mainly buddhist will have been fighting for decades for more autonomy in iraq on state thats the same region where the miramar Army Launched a violent crackdown on the mostly Muslim Minority in 2017. An air con Army Commander told al jazeera last year that their struggle had been overlooked because of the plight of the rowing he referred to the road has been gali a term used by the myanmar government now if there are. There are problems with the pingala east and Rakhine State the world paid attention and sympathy to them we want to big to the world please look at whats happening with the American People and feel for us to. Minimize military cause they are can are me a terrorist organization it rejected a ceasefire offered this month to deal with the current pandemic the Peace Process with all the Ethnic Armed Groups led by myanmars state councilor unsung suchi has stalled the government has previously said it will protect civilians from its military operations but as the conflict continues civilians whether record or are caught in the middle dorsetshire pari for inside story. Lets introduce the panel in bangkok in thailand we have Phil Robertson the Deputy Director of the Asia Division at Human Rights Watch in the u. S. City of chicago Azeem Ibrahim director of the center for Global Policy and author of the wranglers inside me and mass genocide in johannesburg in south africa the t. Shirt vanden are some a member of the Rakhine Advisory Commission and a former ambassador for the netherlands to the United Kingdom welcome to you all like to begin with you how much support does the arab army have amongst the record people. They have considerable support they have considerable support despite all the hardships at a group that they are going from you see you have to go back again in history and look how they were occurring people have been marginalized dramatically by the people from the center bomb our. Force intrudes and have. Written very rich area of what is now where money was you know what most. Of the rich potentially which is. It is not the poorest so there is you know nagar among standing grievances that have not been addressed we commissioned the largest part of bank of one recognizes and said very clearly that unless the grievances of not only are there are also all the other people of our current state and not really what exists will dress the permanent solution peace and stability will fill those grievances that latisha was talking about why the other kind seems of lost faith in the political system in me and mark. Well the rakhine people have traditionally been sort of left aside by many of the discussions with the various different ethnic groups they have always been considered by the burmans to be very close to burmans and and intil they are a kind of army really came up there has not been that kind of systematic effective i think a surgeon see to challenge that situation and what were seeing now is the myanmar government has classified the air con army as a terrorist organization which has cut off any possibility of dialogue between the center and they are kind of army and and in fact is actually even prosecuting various different. New site editors for daring to run interviews with arrack on Army Spokesperson so we see a marginalization of the rakhine in the rakhine political cause we see increased Human Rights Violations we see increased violations of the laws of war by the Burmese Military and this is all creating a great deal of resentment that has fueled support for the American Army as. Phil talks about this marginalize ation of the rakhine i mean the out of the National Party won a majority of parliamentary seats in the elections in rakhine they believe they should have been able to nominate the states chief but unsigned suchi spotty appointed the chief instead is not provoked this disillusionment in the support for the army do you think. For the our economy i think that the 2nd element to play with it but the reality is that that myanmar has been at war with every single ethnic minority since independence these are the longest running civil wars and the world the arctic an army just happens to be the largest of many of these ethnic groups and probably the most organized and it seems to me that the myanmar sent a lot or are using the cover of the court cases the current are biased cases to increase the attacks on many of these other minorities. You know what once they had finished ethnically cleansing their own can judge from their country it was only a matter of time before they turned their full attention onto these other minority groups and it seems that the dissimilar tree divisions were deployed to remove the role he enjoyed division 33 in 1900 or so no one is the tip of the spear are the ones are leading these attacks against these other minorities it seems that there are many elements with me on my arm with endymion member literally who are who are determined to create a bomb our biggest nationalist state and they will not rest until these ethnic minorities have been completely cleansed from their country lets see sure is the burman is army using covert as cover i mean it is only in january that the i. C. J. Ordered the government to prevent the commission of genocidal acts i know that was to protect the reading but violence has continued the burma as army doesnt seem to paid any heat the industry geishas of the more recent violence restart its early february it was bad before but it got worse then because existing existing internet blackout of course extended to larger areas. Of africa on stage and also and also into state. And also they started to. Fight with it with with it in a manner that was totally indiscriminate and disproportionate they started to show villagers. Shelling from aircraft from attack helicopters. When a 1000000 of those who died were actually civilians and 1000000 innocent children and weve been having these works all of the bases the u. N. Has for testers has protested you know a number of think about 18 buses in. The capital. For a cease fire. The u. N. Secretary general has asked for a cease fire and they are. Not the military market mr smeaton are they seem to be in a hurry because its very. Easy and it was much more difficult for them were doing the rounds. Once the rainy season starts until its really its on a discreet of the darkness of the internet. Not their own but also on the cover of darkness of the worlds attention to go with a not so much to what was actually happening there for many people there their fear is more for poor ability but military are what militaries do no matter what about this because information to. Prevent from being infected is not reaching the. Until you mentioned before that the our economy its been designated now by the government to be a maza terrorist group and thats a fashionable used by many governments these days to crack down on undesirable organizations is it going to give them International Covenant that they can call them terrorists i think that the myanmar government has very little credibility with the International Community at this point i mean theyve also called the arson which is the insurgency a terrorist group you know i think that the government and unfortunately have parts of the civilian government that are accomplices to this bernies military offensive i mean its important to recognize you know since march 23rd the the off the High Commission for human rights has indicated theres been 32 deaths and 71 people wounded by air raids and bombardment this is indiscriminate attacks on villages this is you know the government and the military you know basically trying to as leticia correctly noted to operate under the cover of darkness with an internet blackout you know trying to shut down various different Media Outlets that dare report on the war and Rakhine State and interview they are can are me and i think what were moving towards is. Implement an implementation of the Myanmar Military is traditional for cuts policy which you know is an effort to cut off food funds intelligence and recruits from any sort of ethnic insurgency and what this usually boils down to is attacks on civilians indiscriminate attacks and if thats the case of thats where were going in the war against the arc on army theres going to be a lot more deaths and theres and be a lot more injuries before were done is he do you think designating that konami a terrorist group is his attempt by them as military to give them some sort of cover. Well theres clearly an attempt to but as my colleague said that is probably not going to work the Myanmar Military has no exposed itself as being complicit and general general say to let terror against the largest ethnic minority in the in the country which were the ruling just. Jihad grew against the me and my our military and the civilian authorities or well only have to beat another month or so to see. When the Myanmar Military and the myanmar authorities have to report back so they dont really have much credibility the are quite real recognize as a attacking civilians indiscriminately and as i said earlier these are some of the longest running civil wars and me on my military has engaged in across a tease against civilians as part of their strategy multiple camps multiple general saves mass graves except for so whether they designate a group a terrorist organization or not who really not have much traction within the International Community it me elo the more flexibility within the home turf in terms of domestic laws to carry out some of these extra kind of judicial activities including journalists for interview leaders of the arctic an army and the government of the Political Parties and so on but i think internationally i have very little credibility at all. Until can i ask you say is that bernies army you think targeting the rakhine as an ethnic group as they have done with their anger has or are they just trying to crush the army and its supporters of course the rakhine are mainly buddhist while lowering goes were a predominantly muslim. I think increasingly the tatmadaw is conflating the the rakhine civilians with the rakhine are a kind of army i think that you know what youre getting is a palpable dislike between the myanmar army and civilians a feeling that you know the rakhine and have very strongly support the arkan army in that theyre all in it against the burma army and therefore anything is justified and i think that what were concerned about is that were seeing a change of tactics over the past 6 weeks to 2 months by the Myanmar Military where they are now you know shelling villages or launching air attacks that are killing civilians that have nothing to do with the air con army at all unless you can ask what you think about do you think that targeting their kind is an ethnic group considering they will they will buddhist or are they targeting muslims were targeting the ring gets them i believe its nice. To think that hes a big big brother who wants and he. And and. And there are kind of traditionally but over the past couple of years. Once and still the good bill could or hear. Terms only on the recording is the kind of thing its not so were going to get this people because they want full control over at states and one reason for that is the uk economic prospects who have china as their in their in their corner who runs the china and needs to report in the currency never had to have in the uk also having similar plans for the port of sichuan then. You know it d is i think if you issue or even moment insist should not be forgotten there and i think you know the theory as far as china is concerned be the military. And the government of the free once your economic yet at the foot hole they will be able to do the recall and negotiate directly with china and india about none of them ok ill come back to china in a 2nd but i want to ask you 1st how important is the. Our economys alliance with other ethnic groups they say this Northern Alliance particularly catchin Independence Army because that headquartered that our economy is headquarters of the how its significant is that connection. I think the salons is extremely important i think all of the ethnic minority groups realize that what after what happened to the will hinge on that they are simply next on the list it was only a question of tame before me on mars and boarded military turned in attention to these other groups and so there is an alliance between the various groups and many of them actually did speak up against the judge and say why was that was happening simply because they knew what was coming to them very soon and medina can army is the largest of all the different. Ethnic armies and is probably the most organized which is why they are targeting them specifically but the sheen the cut in northern shan did all essential in the same boat at the moment you know the government they did ask for a ceasefire in april which was rejected by the military so that essentially gave the military to green late and the cold war of this entire locked and to try to pursue many of these groups and the leaders of these groups and so i think thats very very important to know phil whats this telling us about the relationship between the government and the military in myanmar what the military is doing has needed government approval hasnt it are they singing from the same hymn sheet or is there are there differences. Well under the 282008 constitution. The Burmese Military has a great deal of autonomy and how it operates and in issues of National Security which of course they would label whats happening answer a kind status as a National Security issue but weve not heard any objections from on assange sochi or from the Ruling National League for democracy we have not seen any concerns expressed by the civilian government about what is happening to the in internally displaced persons are now over 160000 ethnically displaced. Displaced Ethnic Rakhine people you know weve not seen anything from the civilians so i mean i think that the the civilian government in some ways is really an accomplice to this you know they are quite concerned that they will lose Rakhine State again in the election that is scheduled to happen in november 2020 that the you know the record will be you know again voting for an ethnic party over the National League for democracy and i think that therefore they are you know looking the other way i mean. To lose just last week exclude the 14 up and then the kind nutritive which looks like freedom of movement for the people of african states it least seem to suggest. We get insurance for people who feel since since im too through. All the other people see something very simple. Very similar to who were going to do we know who think its ok and is even just like to touch on on china if i may theres been significant genocide which has been taking place and thats the thing for here for a long time. In effect what is happening on the grounds is very much a continuation of the genocide lets be clear. People are suffering too long just last week an excellent report came up an indifferent then kind knishes which looks at freedom of movement for the people of african states it release sketches that the situation. Worse but it also assumes that since name to. All the other people in work and see something very similar it is becoming. Very similar to or who happened to do during a few decades ok and as ema just like to touch on on china if i may theres been syfy significant Chinese Investment in. States but its got a deep sea port got a pipeline a gas pipeline but this 27. 00 government backed commission leticia was on in fact reported that the profits were going to china into the Central Government they werent being enjoyed by the people in Rakhine State what influence could china have over this is it interested in having influence over this. Well this is the characteristic of chain as though to load project as a chain. Saw and laborers as uses on finance and the local communities benefit very little from any sort of chaneys enforcement nesis just part and parcel of the actually operate your chain has much larger goals than just economic within the region you know access to me and mark gives access to the indian ocean and the b. Of bingo and they can thus set India Nuclear right who india china has ambitions to be equal superpower but before it can become equal to superpower it must become a Regional Power and that means keeping its Nuclear India in check and they can avoid estates of malacca and you know have access to the end you know option so myanmar is a geo politically very strategic location for change access to so theres much more to the calculation then just economic benefit phil is in chinas interests to try and influence whats going on in rakhine at the moment to try and bring stabilisation that considering the importance of the area to it. I think that china does have an interest in seeing some degree of stability but on the other hand they also have a very tenuous relationship with the Burmese Military its important to recall that china is also the key backer of some of these Northern Alliance groups particularly the unit the United States army which is a group that you know controls a huge swath of burma as land in burma on the china border and so china is playing it both ways theyre you know theyre in some ways trying to entice cooperation but theyre also willing to use proxies to pressure the government for cooperation i think ultimately you know they have theyve said that theyre going to try to solve the rohingya problem as well trying to get the rohingya to come back theyre trying to broker some sort of deal between myanmar and bangladesh nothing is really happened on that and i think also they want to be seen as the brokers to try to involve in trying to create some stability particularly in the areas where their pipeline is is currently place and going up through out of out of a kind state ok we are unfortunately out of time so well have to leave it there for the moment but id like to say thanks to all our guests Phil Robertson abraham in the t. Shirt van den a sum and thank you to watching you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter. A. J. Inside story from a bird its me and the whole team here in doha by foot. From fossil fuels to modern day renewable as societies develop the energy demands increase requiring Innovative Solutions to meet such that moms as a global power develop into the Basement Company nebraska power is uniquely positioned to deliver against the stimulus we provide Business Growth promote Socio Economic benefits and provide innovative safe and in farmington sound Energy Solutions for future generation the breastpin pioneering future energy. 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