Crisis rockwells approach. The sept 188 like it was. That. Fixed found. Hello im richard gives birth and youre watching the listening post here are some of the coronavirus stories the media angles that were covering from home this week they say numbers dont lie when youre tracking the pandemic though the numbers can mislead and misinformed italy is now more than a month into its National Quarantine we speak with journalists there about the hits and misses in their coverage of covert 19 the latest social media platform taking steps to stop the spread of coronavirus misinformation is whats at its laying down some new rules plus our new call of duty you can you hear me yes the Conference Call and its no video game. Kovac 19 is a news story driven by the numbers how many countries have been infected how many people have it how many have succumbed to the virus what is the recovery rate and is the curve flattening and how quickly the data helps journalists quantify the scale of this pandemic and allows news consumers to assess the risk the numbers also inform governments on what measures they should take but the next time youre looking at the numbers consider this statisticians say that the way in which coronavirus data is collected interpreted and reported is inherently flawed were not talking about misinformation were talking about the limitations of science in the early stages of understanding a new virus and a new pandemic which means that much of the information currently available on the biggest news story in generations is at best uncertain and at worst misleading and dangerous but its all the journalists and the rest of us have to go on right now our starting point this week is the most widely reported component of the covert 1000 pandemic the number. Of gurlitz are all about the role of virus the one single biggest jump in death toll rising more than 100. 00 to 700. 00 were trying to overrule the coronavirus story is sweeping the world and creating a booming market for informational more than 132000 of. The ratings for news programs in india are up by more than 50 percent in the u. K. A reported 64 percent of britons are watching more live t. V. Including news than they did. An evening newscast in the u. S. Are seeing their highest ratings in 20 years but are people getting news and numbers they can use. When they look at the data the number of cope with 1000 cases in south korea seems high twice that. Indeed but for every 1000000 south koreans more than 7500 have been tested for every 1000000 indians the number tested is just over 100. And that is just one example of how much of the data that we are consuming is inherently flawed. And so the data that we have and spread of the coronavirus is always a function of testing. And we know that the testing response has been very catchy and i think that we still have seen a reliance on numbers which are informed by that huge trade to test and we can buy it and yet the numbers i think presented with with maybe more authority sometimes and then they should they dont come with the proper asterisk about how biased and mighty how much off these estimates might have been for example the number of cases is just the number of people who have been documented to be infection but this is just the tip of the iceberg probably that the true number of cases may be somewhere like 100 times and of course that creates other huge inaccuracy is like for example what is the chance of dying if you get infected if you have a very low denominator which is the number of cases documented and he will think that your risk of dying if you get infected is tremendous and actually if you correct that by a 100 fold more or less it becomes a very very different story present chomper example talks about the United States. More people than any other country that may or may not be true you know the system of testing that was so quick and so easy but whats relevant isnt per capita number of tests and also when they were in medicine doesnt do any good if. Theyre administered too late so all these. Are important in the fact that. Our certain value rate but theres there is no me there are variants. I mention. Not only do governments have to test they have to be straight when reporting the numbers north korea claims it does not have a single case despite a sizable outbreak across its southern border thats 0 figure then gets plugged into global tracking platforms until pressured into changing. Its practices this week china did not consider a positive test to be an official case unless the person tested showed symptoms as well that skewed the statistics and cast doubt on beijings claims echoed throughout the Chinese Media that the outbreak there is now under control and we have seen credible reports now that china is probably under porting the number of people who were both diagnosed with this and who died and so putting all those things together i think its really hard to have a reasonable discussion about what the death rate from this thing is you know this is something really useful for scientists this is something really useful for policymakers. But its unlikely to change and i think our readers need to understand that we probably shouldnt be trying to convince them that its exact right now so i think that weve seen it on this reported in many democracies have not been especially reliable i think after 3 weeks of confinement new numbers in france suggest the measures are working i dont think thats necessarily attributable to malice or desire to conceal you know the full extent of the problem but it changes our understanding of the numbers and i think the numbers are often presented in Media Coverage as these kind of monolith. Things that are sort of the truest snapshots of the state of whats going on in any given place of a given time when it comes to. Reporters are used to having science as an ally an important tool in speaking truth to power science is what allows them when reporting on Climate Change or economic stories to counter political narratives and soundbites with cold hard indisputable facts but thats only where the science is conclusive and were not there yet in the last half hour weve heard that a further 758 people who tested positive for corona virus have died in hospital in england having why. Back some last Audiences Media outlets want to keep sense which means feeding them their daily dose of date let me know. Active cases that dont 1650. 00 the death toll is at 68. 00 when the scientific process however takes time and it has no more respect for the 24 hour news cycle than the coronavirus has for borders. I saw this happening a lot in march here in the us where we would have these news stories coming out daily talking about how many more new cases. Abound the number of cases soaring just today more than 24000 now nationwide hour by hour the number of cases goes up the deaths to more than 160000 cases in the United States over 2980 deaths and i think a lot of people came away from out with this impression that all of the growth in diagnosed cases had to do with the speed of transmission and where it was going knew when what it actually was was the new states bringing their testing apparatus up online and so we werent testing yesterday and now were testing and lo and behold we found things looking at the broader issues and trends is more important. Why do you think you know its you know 5 minutes and i miss n. B. C. Or c. N. N. And if you share so frequently in some compulsively that then tiny little. Burial what variations tiny little blips in the numbers well its. Important. That they dont tell you no. Its not just the medical science that is coming up short right now its the science of economics american banks trying to forecast how far u. S. Gross domestic product will drop due to the pandemic or. All over the place predictions from 10 percent to 40 percent as one writer in the atlantic magazine put it last week thats not a sign of a condom ists having an informed debate its a sign that economists have no idea whats going on which puts them in the same category as journalists reporting on covert 19 and the politicians deciding what to do about it no one really know. This is the part of the news story where the correspondent tends to say but one thing is clear or this much we know but that scripting device doesnt really work with this story because there is so little that is clear for the news Industry Based on facts the trades and clarity the coronavirus is like a plague of uncertainty get used to it because its going to be like this for a while. I think that one of the things that we can really do as journalists that serves our readers that sense ourselves is to do what we can to help people be more comfortable with uncertainty and one of the greatest gaps that we can give to ourselves right now and something thats going to keep us from going crazy and i think its very important for journalists to be able to convey that uncertainty to the public not instilling fear and panic but just telling them what we know and what are the boundaries of our knowledge that theirs is the boundaries of our uncertainty because in its 6 trillion going to differentiate these 2 uncertainty is the only certainty. Learning how to live with that insecurity is the only security you know i think many people find that that kind of present realization but its nevertheless against. The man. Who says you know im certain the. Science to this and use unable to do whatever. I think people have to resign themselves to the fact that we we dont know right now we wont know for a while. Were discussing other media and social media aspects of the coronavirus story with one of our producers joe had a hosts joke over 19 and misinformation this is something that social Media Companies have been grappling with now whatsapp is changing some of its rules how and why well richard earlier this week lots of announced that it is introducing a new limits on the number of times people can for it messages on the platform all in an attempt to stop the spread of viral hoaxes and misinformation now saying either you or i receive a message on whatsapp one has already been forwarded more than 5 times you can now only send a message from to one other person so what is worth noting is that is a little bit of a supplement because nothing stops you from them sending that same message to lots of different people you just come to the same time so thats just a little bit more work and a little bit more clicks and moved what kind of misinformation is whatsapp trying to stop here. Well all sorts of bizarre stories have been spreading on the platform these past few months for example the idea that the corona virus has somehow been caused by the new 5 g. Mobile network or that if you drink hot water every 15 minutes youre miraculously cured cured of the disease now the likes of facebook and twitter they can like this kind of content and the next she deleted but because of what steps and encryption you cannot take these messages down and this wouldnt be the 1st time what it that this particular platform has hosted misinformation that might have some dangerous consequences well exactly take for example india which is actually what sets biggest market with more than 400000000 user is rumors and all sorts of mess information information has spread on the platform for the past few years for example rumors that people who are alleged child abductor and these kind of these kind of messages have actually lets a lot of mob lynching and murders which is why in 28 seen what seb announced that it was going to experiment with putting limits on the amount of times people can for it messages putting it down from 250 to 20 then in 2019 that number went further down to 5 and now here we are 2020 and the number is down to one ok thanks joe. Countries that are still climbing the coronavirus curve have been looking at places that are further along in order to see whats coming journalists who want to do that might want to take a long look at italy it was the 2nd country after china to be gripped by covert 19 the 1st in which the media are largely free of government control the nation wide lockdown there has been in place for more than a month now but the government has made an exception for reporters deeming their work to be an essential service and those journalists have had their work cut out from the start trust in the italian news media had been at an all time low nothing like a big news story for a chance to rebuild a reputation the listening posts daniel turi now in conversation with 3 italian journalists and Investigative Reporter a newspaper editor and the media analyst about the coverage of the corona virus. Is one of the to the leading investigative programs airing on the publicly owned channel and i think. This is a reporter of the program on the forgotten maturity. D. V. D. Ok so the fact you have to know a gay marriage she told me about her investigation into the total mind team is taking on the Italian Health care system. I mean the one. Subject we focused on a lot is the fact that hundreds of thousands of doctors have been sent to fight this battle without the necessary protective gear because of america because. More than 60 italian doctors have already died fighting this virus and as their colleagues are continuing to find it i choose to tell the story through their voices not just by interviewing them but letting them a cool story. Their own accounts of what it was like working now wallace and thinking of the characters and. Theyve got a kind of. Restricted air account or an american or american than i am when youre going to crap picture not a caption for your agenda how much of american icon. These film is just one example of some of the hard hitting journalism that has been coming out of italy over the past month or so however there have also been instances and more than just a couple of problematic Media Coverage not t. F. Out of a z thanks for joining us in the listening post you were the piece for the american website nieman report about the italian medias reporting of the crisis you criticize some news outlets for irresponsible journalism what were some of the problems in your opinion ill give you just an example. It could be over the last see it on march 8th when it really 1st be clear the degree of influx down in the north a region of longer the a published an early draft of the decree of the government that will lock down the whole region of 16000000 people that can be generated immediately or from. A for the 2 newspaper called impossible to get off that lake. For 1000. 00 to move around the country in the moments when it was absolutely crucial the people to respect orders and not move around for boys for use by those doing Something Else president has been doing is the banking fake news about the coronavirus can you talk about some of the misinformation you seen spreading around online and where its coming from just on a surprised look dont do it feel any shalini think they knew existed when in my opinion there are 2 main strands of fake me to being circulated one is about fake. Curious george no one jonathan you know there is there will be a more there was a video we had on our program showing 2 italians using a medicine from russia the amoco but i never saw the morsel of the daughter. Wanted to go on everest and antiviral that could apparently cure cobbett 1005 and that we in italy didnt want to use it to treat people my better america going to. Be this one to get out it even worse is when politicians publicize fake information for example the same day our program was broadcast a righty report from 2015 talking about a coronavirus created in a chinese lab started circulating again but it was about a completely different virus it was spread all over social media and then literally in the space of a few hours salhani the leader of the leg a party and our former deputy Prime Minister actually asked the question in harlem and requesting it to be investigated by committing our parliament which has so much to deal with right now to look into something completely false with this review going to the governments of the. Now it took us any few interviews with doctors and scientists to prove it was totally a fake knew. Their basic i could see that the lawsuit i mean did you nothing money i would just been looking at some of the efforts at talian journalism making the combat misinformation but youve argued that thats not the whole story you write quote a journalist who thunder against misinformation occasionally contribute to it explain what you mean by that. The result tendency that they saw in the italian media in these past few weeks to have their own narrative and wanting to push the facts into the narrative and there was a great example i think in the newspapers a lot of public which is one of the major newspaper in italy accusing basically one Company Based in italy even this producing swabs to sell swabs to the United States at the expense of local hospitals who needs absolutely those swabs for testing. And so portraying a political struggle between to the italy and the United States was of like a pretty significant accusation but not none of it was true. That a company can produce like many more swabs than italy need them can serve many markets because this is a good thing. I spoke a lot of public as editor in chief of cattle that a deli and i asked him to respond to the claim that his paper falsely implied that the sale of tests today in the west deprived italians of vital supplies a problem and a little busy for months this wasnt a case of misinformation that Company Acted in an absolutely legal way and there isnt a single line in the newspaper and theyre doing that they behaved in a food you know way towards the public. Its not the companys fault if 2 phones of a country have not managed to put in place emergency procedures to supply hospitals with the equipment its hand in is needed not time its that simple little piece of. Before this crisis began a lot of public it was already want to be italys most widely read newspapers what kind of impact of the coronavirus out on your pay it would look at it as far as our website is concerned with the minutes by minute hour by hour weve had a huge increase in traffic before the coronavirus we average around 3000000 unique visitors a day now on our busiest days we reach full teams of 15000000 visitors and we are averaging around 10000000. 00 unique users per day so our online audience has tripled us through printed copies at the beginning of the epidemic in italy we recorded a significant increase in sales however since then thousands of new stands of closed and so sales have leveled out it will remain to. This which of us but it. Goes record audience figures are not unique to a lot of people because with 60000000 italians locked indoors most if not all of italys mainstream news outlets are enjoying a similar spike the pandemic has paused what had been a long period of decline for traditional media in italy which many italians no longer trust to tell the truth this report by the Reuters Institute for the study of journalism found that as of last year just one 3rd of italians thought the media was doing a good job scrutinising the powerful but somehow the covert 19 locked down and the literally captive audience it provides is a chance for a reset you could have any time in the last few years in this city has been a lot of hostility towards the news media this is the moment when Television Journalism and print is one. Can regain the trust of the listeners in readings by offering up different kinds of jamieson daily updates with the latest facts and figures including the number of deaths but also with the tuna tries to understand the root of the problems we know they see as well as starting to look at the problems that are heading our way in a time when the country needs to stay united but we also need to keep scrutinizing those in power something we must not forget in the. Night. And finally stuck at home working out of our living room as people are spending hours and hours in Virtual Meeting rooms a few years back one Video Conferencing platform zoom hired an American Comedy duo called trip and tyler to produce an ad on its behalf showing some of the pitfalls of Conference Calls the freeze frames the audio glitches the weird camera angles intruding children and pets at least some of which the zoom platform is designed to conquer zooms business is booming these days but there are some serious concerns about its privacy settings and Security Policies so the next time you dial in to a work meeting or your yoga class or even a virtual night out might be worth asking yourself who else is on the call quietly taking notes well see you next time youre at the listening post. Thanks for being here. Paul paul can you hear me ok hear you i can hear you can you hear me yes. Sorry im late but our time connecting one second paul 7 sound issue i cant hear you try just in your output setting can you hear me the gear i cannot tell you are you one hotel wipha. Everyone certainly had to download a new version of the platform you should plan extra time for the updates pretty much whatever time. Sounds like someone just join. You on. Call and im going to drag me to my new thing here all right well everyone is here finally tyler do you have the Financial Report also in the last few weeks updating our books and get some great news for you. From this point last year we had a great q one last time i think my frozen trip i think we lost tyler i know all right everybody oscillator. There are people in the world who want all forms of verification to just go away so we need people fighting against the other trying to see if its a fake review may be in syria but in a different time they risk a great deal to find out the truth in very complex situations that include major global play as weve been targeted by Cyber Attacks from russia theyre all dangerously through this conflict telling. Truth in the post truth werent 10000. Ive been covering all of that narrative for most of my career but no countries alike and its my job to shed light on how and why d. This is aljazeera armed with a check on your world headlines the United States has become the country with the worst coronavirus death toll about 20000 people have died and there are at least half a 1000000 americans infected the governor of new york says the number of people being treated in hospital continues to decline waikato has more from washington. Fatalities of over 20000 well thats increasing at this stage by some 2000 deaths every day so certainly the pandemic having a massive impact throughout the United States in particular in the epicenter of the pandemic new york state where some 7. 00 to 800. 00 people are dying each day and the crisis is