Their lives and seek refuge across the u. S. Border. Although mused. Heard immigration. And this story really opened my heart and changed the way i will see migrants. Oprah loves the book it has earned a coveted spot in the Oprah Winfrey book club and donna praised by the authors john grisham and stephen king as well as Mexican American authors Sandra Cisneros and Erika Sanchez the novel which is it was written by an author who is neither mexican nor migrant is now the center of a debate over who gets to tell stories of historically marginalized people critics online say the book is rife with stereotypes and cultural misrepresentations the controversy also highlights the issues that result from a lack of diversity in a white dominated u. S. Publishing industry joining us to talk about this in Long Beach CaliforniaWilliam Gerber she is a writer. Artists whose wife he shared book review of america and helped spark a more critical look at the novel isnt Louis MissouriSanchez Prado he is a professor of spanish latin american studies and film and media studies at the Washington University in st louis and in edinburgh texas david cole was a Mexican American author who teaches at the university of texas rio grande a valley good to have you everybody youve all read the book which is a great start maria. Can review for us while i show people what you said about the book back in december what would you say whats the plot that stopped the plot festival. Ok so the plot is basically that. Middle class bookseller living and a couple 1 who flirted with and not call has to go on the run in order to save her own life and her sons life because she is now being pursued by this not go just to go on the run and make it to the United States land of freedom but thats essentially the plot and then when you. Want to review im just a shade people your physical pain to the top of your twitter page right now you would know complementary at school because why. Well because the book is really bad its a tacky book d its a poorly written and misrepresents make you go so many people have written about this subject that its so well and so elegant leigh and its grotesque that this book is being championed and placed on a pedestal as if its representative of a universal migrant experience as if it is representative of mexican sensibility and its absolutely not and thats thats the beef that i have. Well and i think that but the problem is that many of fulls its been a long time teaching people in the United States about their country and they say that people have a little mexico but a significant electoral consequences people vote on the basis of his representations people whose suburban to read it to me ration on the basis those ripples in asian people support the rejigged the one on the rolls and that is that was representation and if you look at that we makes it is a percent that it is not substantially different than a lot of media pulled that out of radiant they mix it and actually support a negative as they do in the in the me the racial politics since the early but yeah that it yeah yeah you just heard in that clip from. From oprah that she talks about how of all the story shes heard about people migrating from the violence in Central America and the cartel and drug cartel issues in mexico coming to the u. S. This book is the one story that made her open her heart the problem is this book is a work of fiction and its a work of fiction that set in what most of us agree is an alternate universe mexico because it has nothing to do with the mexico that we know and love it is full of these kind of hollywood thriller b. Movie tropes im sure a lot of people in your audience of had this experience where theyve seen their culture depicted in hollywood films in ways that are frankly insulting and that dont you know encompass all of the nuances of their lives and their religions and their hopes and fears and dreams and thats whats happened here its a book written for the white gays ostensibly because Jeanine Cummins unflattering books and their principal author Oprah Winfrey who has multiple books from that publisher who wanted to raise consciousness and you know the White Community in. The United States about the problems of mexico and give a voice to the faceless brown masses jeanine says the irony is that we have been writing books mexicans and most good americans who make 18 percent of the population in the u. S. By the way ive been writing books and trying to get them published for years and years and years our voices only make up less than 3 percent of the books published every year and we get paid very little for it and for someone to take our story and write it to the white gaze and earn more than a 1000000. 00 for it with the imprimatur of Oprah Winfrey no less is this a calling lets point out this white white case merriam go ahead with what is white when you were reading the book what we seeing i was when i read the book and i took out of the white gaze i took note of the fact that the book is written in such a way that if a white reader is engaging with that they are able to place themselves in this position of the period or a date where theyre looking down upon. An inferior group of people mexicans are an inferior group of people Central Americans are an inferior group of people indigenous folk of the americas are an inferior group of people and white people can congratulate themselves for and but sizing and im using air quotes empathizing with these folks because theyre capable of temporarily and how putting their skin and then taking it off so it is an adventure and pity porn so to speak. And i say where brainwashed live when you shave right now i put this to you this is elizabeth whos on each of watching last she said shes had a lot of discussions like this if someone hasnt lived through experience she told me the ones are vital wrote an article today especially when people of color on the representatives. So what i would say is that what makes you an authority to something is not where youre from but whether you know about it never lose money mexicans that have been challenged in mexico in particular regarding the way they come or they can modify and still the question of the word the sack ridiculous about the surveillance that was friend of mine who has pointed this out about many mexican books that i know some books may americans one recent one is on the plane of 6. 0 it could get others to make sickle writes extensively about it but he never actually protests to know something he doesnt what is infuriating about this book is that it is an incredibly ignorant book that is pushed by a massive a practicing listed as knowledgeable and the purpose of bullets it is so large that he may actually end up being the only book about mexico that many readers read and they will call him out thinking that this is a make your presentation of the country of the immigration issue of violence in mexico and its not any of those d things yesterday. No i was agreeing with not 100 percent this is a problem and i wrote about a New York Times that the Publishing Industry has that they. Put all their emphasis on the one big title pretty euro per season Janine Cummins a wrote the book editor right after. Trying to become president and we were suffering really agonizing debates at a National Level about children being separated from their families and being put in cages and so forth and so you know its really kind of disgusting that flat iron would want to tap into that site guys and make so much money off of it again you know working behind the scenes to make sure that oprah so that it for book club you know investing so much money in it throwing a 1000000. 00 in income is for the work that she done. And it is you know its just indicative of how broken the system is and we are really pushing with our hash tag that indeed that idea which is literary dignity to get people into to tell their stories and show that their voices exist. Absolutely and can i add something to this go ahead there has been there has been a sort of let them eat cake flavor to the. Campaign to push this book which is infuriating and disgusting so. It became Public Knowledge that flat iron launched a party and order to introduce this book out im a booksellers of bents and im centerpieces that looked like many border walls wrapped in barbed wire adorned tables while people dined on lobster right so there was this torture chic this torture aesthetic that was being used to promote the book theres a photograph thats been become notorious where a manic a manic your matches the book cover. Made viral news and manic your future is a barbed wire right which is a symbol of atrocity and now atrocity has become chic atrocity has become fashion atrocity has become commodified and to me thats the apex of summer im going to wear the border on my fingernails yeah so now weve let me share this with you all of our guests across this some of the hashtags the conversations people having american im north american writing my latino novel that what i highly recommend very amusing and dick need. Which is to have brought all same tick. From the Latino Latino latino x. Experience let me just put a portal in this conversation about the particular book because its a much bigger conversation to have. But having said that in the last 24 hours this is what flat i indeed they apologized they picked up an evening talking about sharing without audience and they apologized let me show you what i actually said we should never have claimed that it was a novel that defined the my current experience is a much longer. Apology in that at the party they are listening. But at the same time if you go a little bit further down that apology they canceled the book tour and the in the reason they did it was because of vitriolic rain current quote unquote and also because there are they are afraid of threats of physical violence and these are the sorts of things in the United States for your audience that doesnt know it these troops that try to paint Mexican Americans mexicans let the people in general as as medium was saying inferior but also barbaric and violent and so forth have been used again and again to inflict violence on our community weve been deported in mass twice in the in the past 100 years yet millions of Mexican Americans deported many of them citizens of the us during the thirtys and in the fiftys schools were segregated for the longest time and we we remember this violence that we have a lot like a cultural memory i would like to go ahead of me that are i would like to add that i grew up an account named santa maria california i grew up there in the eightys we had a mayor who was known as mr santa maria mr santa maria ran for there on an anti Mexican Campaign over and over and over he would come on television and you have mr santa maria routine but i also am for science that our town with populated by mexican good met the birth of bad acts the cant bad mexican a mexican who did we have to and he argued that all the mexican did at that to concentration camps along the border will be United States could figure out what to do with a bad neck the cant i have been dealing with this bad met the control my whole entire life and now im watching this trial reach its logical culmination miriam and david and. We can spend the host. Talking about bad mexican troops we were what it was worse imo and i think they really. Believe that if you want to do that read the book let me show you something here on twitter because with this is a much bigger conversation either that or says ive read books by authors who tell the story of others in a respect for acknowledging and for this one doesnt believe in this very thoughtful and spot on threat here and then im just showing you some of the conversations are going like that very healthy conversations scupper not good books this caught our eye one person just for every book in this display except american debt and you can see all of these estimates in books and being invited to look at them a wreath them this display quote i spoke to the book shop. And this is what he told us have a listen i had a woman who was special ordered. To talk to me about it and the entire controversy really really brought up a conversation about who tells who stories and whether this was appropriate in the end she ended up walking out with another book. Children of the land its been a great way to store conversations about the issues in a great way to prove otherwise to next authors to the fore so we have a we have an issue with the Publishing Industry and how diverse you know its my sister and i said please yes the single most responsibly baby this is philip they dont books yes because you can people can write a bad book but if you take the bug book bidding war with it even if the. Because if they look mint and dismisses it they just didnt do their work and then give it to oprah and then that is shocked that they have a controversy that is. Again. One of the things. Thats thats perfectly said i mean think about the fact that they brought in an argentinean american editor and then they wonder why were complaining about how bad the spanish is im sure that in the days of people who are watching this you have multiple different dialects of the languages that you speak yet and imagine you know somebody purporting to write a particular dialect but using words from another one thats essentially what youre saying here so its a book and i mean thats indicative like this and is this indicative though because we could end up just that we need to just unpacking this one book and the industry is so much bigger for it is that we show this the racial makeup of publishing in the United States and you can see let me just show you here the red area books published by white office caucasian office asian would be the orange a mixed race would be the lighter orange i can go for this this is the past spot it also is right here there is a problem with this pie chart so. We are more aware of this problem now because of the controversy around america and. Maybe as you are an author how would you display whats happening in the Publishing Industry right now with authors of color. Well im. The point where what flat irons said i have starting a conversation or not or theres this theres this rhetoric now but at least weve begun the support conversation i see that argument this way imaginable and walks up to me and smacks me across the face and tells me you want to be thankful i smacked you across the face because now we can have an important conversation about Domestic Violence we shouldnt have had to have been smacked across the face to have had this conversation this book thats problematic before mexicans and other folks showed up to say it was problematic right right and it was harsh and that brought attention to this thats right approach and introduce this now yet isnt there some really because when you talk about mexican literature youre talking about 2 different groups theres a mexican literature written in english but people who live in the on and the mexican literature and the insulation that doesnt get translated because the donation structure is Getting Better but also because mexican authors get told that they do not represent the good version of mexican that feeds the readership so there are many feel there is that how to address it yes you know i was a part of this the report says that the next year for the white river success your experts in this field how do you address this how are you addressing this. But by trying to force publishers to come to the table and have a conversation this is one of the reasons that. The hash tag is so important its a way of having it this kind of organic organizing of people all across the nation of Electronics People in their allies making their voices heard sharing their stories demanding that the publishing and she take a look at us and see that we do have a voice this but theyve been ignoring our voices there are all kinds of roadblocks in place all these barriers and gate keepers that keep our voices out which is why despite as i said being 18 percent of the u. S. Population we make up less than 3 percent of the books published every year so there needs to be a proactive approach to this many of the 5 publishers have taken steps mcmillans one of the ones lagging behind mcmillan flat iron so there really needs to be this attempt to bring an authentic own voices and make sure that they tell the stories that need to be told rather than a dozen away so really. The media feels you do because the disproportionate obit has that the media has even so many going there would never actually be even written either by a mexican or Mexican American author or even by a knowledgeable author about mexico as you have but little you say leave the recent lost children archive with green acclaim and then you have all the thorough polish you want to put in the snakes book and you have a listen to the real whos not a mystery is someone who stills really well and the will of the soul and youll get to see more of a book and in it is bluster they really were right success when figured out be simple books that the medium was not longer right so forgive me for doing this but we did invite to incoming stepping on the science that we could have a conversation with have declined our request but i do want to just share a little bit of what she was thinking as she wrote the book what she thinks of the control post right from the book have a listen to can cummings. I was afraid i was really afraid i was afraid of this very moment of being called stridently called to account for myself who do you think you are to write this book i want people to understand whats in my heart and that i am open to learning you know and that i want i wrote this book ultimately because i felt all my favorite fiction is the kind of fiction that can put you into mentally inside the skin of another person and build a bridge of empathy into the heart of the reader and i fell thats why well thats why i wrote this book i hoped to provoke empathy. I wish i could see a mans face right then. She was not impressed. For me they think the elephant in the room is this is fiction are you not asking for fiction novel s. A writer has to have the same level of integrity as a journalist are we not asking too much of office i dont know im not asking for an author to go to write with most authenticity im asking for authors not to write badly and im asking for authors to write responsibly listen to what she said that fiction is something that allows you to where somebody else says again do you really want to be scanned and worn by Janine Cummins and like i wrote about that phenomenon in the review know that i penned where i once time walked in on a white woman who was Walking Around in my bedroom wearing my clothes because she wanted to see what it felt like to be a mexican its incredibly humiliating to fictionalise our human is the fictional human to this in general because the book in its in did not give the author elease sits a reading of the book as a favor and realistic representational writing reading thats right exactly big of a list discreetly so that they you know come and try to hide themselves on the rights. Of it is to make a thing because they are still in this book its almost as a book of sociology it may say you have the book and i knew that but i really read one of the quotes from the back of the book or one of the bits of the blurb to read it to us only we can say that on that front all right yeah im going just what i mean actually is the. Distance what she says. I was going to believe it in my research i thought all extensively on both sides of the border there and you wonder what the what the should. You have. Was any of that he really was a good professor read over the i think not cause any of that convincing to you know about research. She. Would not accept that it was in mexico for my undergraduate students and she was. Gone work and then one person means you believe that as is the big lie that only when you. Were so shes clearly a big big is going to be number one in your exactly so if you are censorship yeah yeah so were not sure that we can actually get tested you know its shocking its its shocking how much we have to say and how little time we have to say and you know what how much time i have left a statistic to have on the show i have enough time to say miriam thank you ignacio accutane for it thank you i know you can go on for a much much longer i really do appreciate your input american sold almost 49000 books in the very 1st week that it was out let me just show you if you an apology from the Book Publishers and flight time books that knowledge the discussion that the novel american has ignited about publishing and representation of minority communities thats all the time we have thanks for watching i will see you on line next time take care. April on al jazeera. 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Fully back to go this is al jazeera live from doha also coming up the worrying rise of infections in brooklyn a fossil among a population unaware of the fire