Fronts medical informational and ideological well look at the history of misinformation in the coverage of viral pandemics by taking you back more than a century to the story of the spanish flu plus filmmakers in isolation and animator goes dark. As theyve been isolating their populations to keep the coronavirus contained some powerful governments are simultaneously waging a worldwide war of perceptions laying out how the pandemic happened where the responsibilities lie and which country should lead the fight against it china is out to shift the narrative from its initially slow response the way it censors kept a lid on the story to the collective efforts since then to bring down the infection rate beijing has also borroughs a page from moscows playbook using mainstream and social media platforms to spread conspiracy theories and mud. Perceptions in washington a campaign to brand covert 19 the chinese virus is being led by the man at the top President Donald Trump this story has grown into a debate about competing ideologies a global one played out through the media of what the world will look like once the pandemic is over and which political system which superpower will be best placed to lead our starting point this week is the geo political battle over narratives around covert 90. 3 superpowers are waging an information war over the corona finds the american version of the story with 19 is the war on its chinese in origin the government there failed to act quickly enough and the blame for the pandemic lies sold at chinas door i joke about the chinese liars and they made it this way came from beijings counternarrative americans may have planted the virus in will hong no one really knows moscow meanwhile is taking a backseat while allowing its media apparatus to amplify theories including conspiracy theories that pit washington and the west against. Sitting in the middle of it all the United Nations where the secretary general is playing the Un Peacekeeping or common enemy. But the enemy is also a growing sense of music from asia so get over to. Promote science and we also need to promote hope and. Vision the u. N. Secretary general is called misinformation surrounding a virus is a global threat and i absolutely agree when any government makes a bull proclamation about the origin of the virus or who is really to blame they should be required to back up their allegations and those allegations should be judged not just. By friendly media but by people who will be necessarily critical were at a point of extreme danger regarding misinformation and Rising International tensions minute Global Pandemic this is more a case study of how the most intimation environment works but generally speaking its not being creates huge by moscow its not being created by china its been created by humanity as a home there are now no more gatekeepers there are no more people who control it anyone who has a bloke a twitter street and instagram feed is a media outlet in their own right what this means is all kinds of eye catching nonsense emerges the issue is how and where this is curated and controlled. Of the media superpowers china exerts the most top down information control that was painfully and the lethally evident in the early days of the outbreak when chinese news outlets fearful of the censors downplayed the severity of the outbreak in will han rather than telling the real story the rules of domestic reporting have been loosened since now the narrative is about you know the collective effort to flatten the curve and as always the leadership of president xi jinping. Should. Issue. However for International Audience on another aspect of the covert 19 story the blame game beijings propaganda model is a valving mutated and looking more like moscow. Started it with war classic Chinese Government strategies for rhetoric and propaganda which are mostly single and mutable positive narratives however it happened where you started seeing something completely different a clear attempt to any russian strategy. D. C. Life in the information environment which flies used twitter accounts to read Conspiracy Theory things that arent there is absolutely no fact evidence for example c. N. N. Is a chinese diplomat promoted the idea that the coronavirus possibly had originated in a us military lab and that the us military had purposely planted the buyer is in hunt this wasnt just one person and this was picked up by by other expenses well the fact that the krona virus did originate in china is a source of great embarrassment for the Chinese Communist party and theyd like to do all they can to shift responsibility in a shift away and the fact is that people dont necessarily have to believe this rumor they simply have to entertain it if they entertain it is one of many possible explanations for the origin of grown a virus than china has succeeded in sowing doubt about its own role at the beginning of this outbreak and the chinese objective will be satisfied. In the geo political battle over narratives and the coronavirus russia is also in the mix a study produced by the European Union last month cited 80 instances of Russian Media publishing misinformation designed to quote aggravate the Public Health crisis in the west the outlets involved however arent always russias major Media Players and their content seems designed for external audiences sputniks german language site quoted an alleged expert saying that washing hands was useless against preventing infection and ran t. V. Called coded 19 a bio weapon created in an american lab and smuggled into china on i dont see signs all the. And a Cool Campaign that is being alleged again the issue is this is that all kinds of stuff coming out of russia Conspiracy Theory and such mark which is essentially painting a fairly apocalyptic and all anti western perspective yes absolutely however in the past when you actually definitely seen kremlin campaigns what we tend to find is that different media different channels of b. Are used simple to use leaks and otherwise whats the state actually gets involved it tends to throw a whole variety of different tools into this particular operation ive not seen that a Conspiracy Theory that originates in one country or one countrys fringe media apparatus can be easily amplified by others we saw this early in the coronavirus pandemic when it was fringe russian that produced many of the original conspiracy theories they were subsequently amplified by the Chinese Communist party we live in a truly Global Information of our it has many benefits but it also comes with its downsides particularly with regard to the spread of december. Americas misinformation problem starts at the white house and extends to president trumps cohorts at fox news both institutions initially downplayed the threat suggesting there were politics at play before admitting the obvious another American Institution the New York Times examined the foreign disinform asian story this past week relying heavily as the times is want to do on unnamed u. S. Intelligence officials and diplomats the times reported that both china and russia are out to undermine their shared adversary the u. S. Rather than addressing public criticism of their own problems which is precisely what the truck administration targeted when questioned on the u. S. And slow response. To the pandemic or during it out of 3 for the whole get off the well right. Well the reality is. We could have been better off of china more for the comic but the United States china and russia have all had beer and evidence failures in their response to the go but it is a result there is an inclination to find external actors to play the shift the blame to other countries and to shift the ire of your population maybe wondering why the government hasnt done enough and that it really accounts for why we see such a perceptual battle now unfold the important thing to keep in mind the deal political backdrop upon which the coronavirus land it past 3 to 4 years what weve seen in the drive this in this hour is who are looking to change the balance of power and see countries are all deep. That like theyre doing will be perceived through a geopolitical lens who is the stands are bad or good and encourage them and this is where a stronger position in the world in the west there has been this easy assumption of the end of history that basically liberal democratic systems have proved that they are the most efficient and the most responsive ways of dealing with the challenges now were saying that in times of modules or hostile challenges will flourish in regimes saying look actually given the world is an increasingly complex products we are the ones who can actually respond to it more effectively so like you know not proving 19 does an interesting existential challenge amount what kind of systems are best placed to deal with the challenges of the 21st century. Were discussing other aspects of the coverage of the coronavirus story that are on our radar with one of our producers flo philips flo misinformation is an issue in so many countries youve got to some examples of some of the legal steps including some quite concerning ones that governments have taken in order to tackle that misinformation thats right richard i want to start by giving you a few examples of some of the bits of legislation that weve seen and acted over the past couple of weeks russia has just passed a law saying that anybody spreading false information about the virus could end up with up to 5 years in jail in his back a star on that same offense could land you with a 10000. 00 fine and in zimbabwe youre looking at up to 20 years in jail for any fake news about the pandemic or indeed about the government lock down there now the trouble with a lot of these laws is that theyre very vaguely worded and its up to the state to decide what is or isnt misinformation and some governments are taking this even further theyre looking beyond fake news it seems that theyre trying to control all the media output on the coronavirus story why dont we start within the on that which has 1300000000 people under lockdown managing the messaging there seems to be one of the Top Priorities for Prime MinisterNarendra Modi his government trying to get the sea priem court to approve a directive saying that all reporting on covered 19 had to go through the government before publishing now the Supreme Court has managed to shut that measure down well see how long that lasts by contrast the government in our media have actually succeeded where india has failed theyve banned publishing and indeed sharing any information that isnt officially government approved and in turkmenistan and i think this might be one of the most bizarre moves that ive seen theyve actually banned the use of the word coronavirus is. In the media is if that somehow going to help and the question that people must be asking themselves in these countries flow is how long do these laws are made in effect because we know that measures that are passed during a time of an emergency have a way of staying on the books they do and that has europeans looking at a country like hungary and the increasingly authoritarian tendencies of the Prime Minister there victor or ban now obannon had already declared a state of emergency back at the beginning of march this past week his Party Managed to push through legislation which now means that he is ruling the country by decree again the wording is very vague and the penalties are stiff anyone deemed to have spread information that hinders the governments response to the epidemic could end up with up to 5 years in jail and just one last thing there are no end dates specified in any of these measures which means that the state of emergency in hungary can last as long as victor obama wants it to ok thanks for. In assessing a new story as big as this coronavirus how the authorities should respond how the media should cover it we tend to look back at comparable events for Lessons Learned from the outset of this of break historians have been growing all the way back to the 1918 and the spanish flu pandemic or as we should say the pandemic that came to be known as the spanish flu more on that in a few moments john barry is an american historian hes the author of the New York Times bestseller the great influenza the epic story of the deadliest pandemic in history the listening posts Nick Muirhead now working from home interviewing john barry on the role the media played in 1918 how news organizations through selfcensorship as well as misinformation helped spread the virus and how more than a century later we are seeing some disturbing parallels in the News Coverage today. Just to jump barry thank you very much for joining us on the listening post youre very welcome and lets start with your book the great influenza the story of the dead is pandemic in history that deals with the spanish flu the outbreak in 918 we know that it could in the final you have global one and that the disease was spread around the globe in the launch plot by soldiers returning home how did this plane was neutral in that it will send those soldiers and the 1st cases of the spanish into ticket in spain so why do we call it the spanish mothers to the rest of the western countries where. The those in europe out right censored the press the u. S. There is more selfcensorship but the same impact and in the spring of 1800 which actually was a pretty mild way a lot of people in spain got sick they were writing about it in spain since they werent censored the king of spain got sec which course generated a lot of public setting high and it picked up the name spanish flu but as you said it did not start there that pandemic tent anywhere from 50 to 100000000 lives and in your book you write extensively about how the u. S. Media covered the and demick can you tell us a little bit about the role that the media played in the press certainly playing a row and making things worse unfortunately my not telling the truth that came out of the government. But it was acco by the press in most cities and the United States. For example. In philadelphia. Where there was a massive parade of hundreds of thousands of people watching at odd the medical community. Was telling reporters that this range to be cancelled reporters were writing stories editors were telling the stories. And like clockwork 48 hours after the brain which was intubation period of influenza the disease really exploded in the city and that happen to be one of the hardest hit cities and in the country if not the world and North Carolina they would not even print the names of people who die because they didnt want to upset people and what happened if newspapers didnt to the government. In one instance that i cited in the book in wisconsin when a newspaper actually did try to tell the truth. Be army started proceedings to prosecute them for violating. What was called the sedition act which could have involved sending then and it has to present for 20 years although they drive they are as a pandemic continue to be the i mean drop that prosecution but that was the initial attitude of the government toward anyone who tried to tell the truth so you had a government that was trying to downplay the severity of the operation in some cases outright law and you had a news media that was as you say for the most part a curing those lies what is the consequence of all of that how did it affect those communities when the you have an element of fear out there anyway because is there was good reason to be afraid and you cant believe what youre being told you have no source of Accurate Information whatsoever all you have is rumor like the worst of the internet today and i mean the worst of the internet. You know its atomizing instead of the Community Come to together it was everybody for every you for himself or herself again to use philadelphia as an example when there were calls for volunteers. Those calls went unanswered by contrast and one of the few cities where the leadership didnt tell the truth and San Francisco the mayor is misleaders Union Leaders medical community all signed a joint statement fall page in the newspaper huge transcend where our mass can save your life now as it turned out the masks did not help but the point is thats a very different message then this is ordinary influenza by another name and San Francisco the whole community were to gather and a very organized fashion the city continued to function much better than most other places where public had been lied to auckland help but think that we sing history repeat itself because if that dont trump come out day off to days at least in the initial stages of the outbreak saying that everythings going to be a k. That the despite the disease will disappear that his administration has it under control and all of which was moved on fox news which is the most watched t. V. Channel in the us this virus should be compared to the flu because at worst at worst worst Case Scenario it could be the flu as of now the us has more confirmed cases of corona virus than any other country on earth so when you look at the rhetoric coming out of the box and the coverage on fox news do you see a repeat of 1980 its quite possible they for one reason or other wanted to believe. The best they were just overly optimistic or whatever. Sometimes game to call them outright lies as in 1918 when they were allies but when you have messaging going out for a couple of months saying that this isnt really a very big deal its going to all work out everybody has to be calm its going to work out and makes it difficult to suddenly tell those sound people you know what it is a big day out you need to stay on you need to stay 6 feet away from any one of the mixed messaging. Is tough i want every american to be prepared for the hard days that lie ahead telling the truth bluntly and transparently letting people know what they can expect is is truthfully as we know it will only help us and you know what the head of singapores government when the virus arrived there and the country was going through somewhat of a panic and actually he had a very detailed forthright candid televised statement trying to explain exactly what was going on weve actually been preparing for a situation like this ever since we had been 22317 years ago and singapore has is im a tremendous job in terms of functioning even in the midst of this what you often hid times like these is that news organizations need to report responsibly that they need to be careful not to ingest mass panic isnt there a conflict they have the journalists to want to report the story accurately but you are afraid that by doing so they might make the situation with us. No i dont think so there are 6 rangers Risk Communication im sure youre familiar with tries to balance things. I despise that phrase goes in and flies managing the truth i think you tell the truth you dont manage the truth i think people are much more capable of dealing with. Reality. Than they are with the imagination. Thank you very much thank you you know if you downplay something then it gets a lot worse what do you say to americans will go out of the way got this wrong and all youve done is lose your own credibility the room stay calm it will go away you know if you know it is going away you know maybe you gave some people a few days of solace but thats also a few days and they could have prepared themselves better and if you watch a horror movie. Before the monster appears on the screen is the scariest time because your imagination takes over once a monster appears its never as frightening as what your imagination created so tell the truth whatever that truth is let people prepare indeed mr john barry thank you very much you very well thank you thank you. And finally youve seen all those feel good music videos making the rounds online all those people coming together during these difficult solitary times well heres a much less happy look at life in quarantine its an animation made by a lithuanian filmmaker named all better test it depicts people working in the Film Industry socially isolated how their killing time the voice fragment that you will hear off the top is from a Public Health video called sniffles and sneezes it was made in 1955 if you were warning this video is dark if youre looking for a happy ending look elsewhere well see you next hour here at the listening post. Yourself again thank you. In 2011 al jazeera gained rare access to the pyongyang film academy and some of north koreas brightest young stars. What did it take to serve a National Propaganda machine. A compelling portrait of the privileged lives of the countrys elites rewinds north korea cinema of train and ill just 0. 0. 0 im Richelle Carey this is the news hour live from doha with the latest on the coronavirus pandemic of the u. K. Governments announced another 621 deaths and warns of tougher measures to keep people indoors a sunny weather draws them alps. Back to work for sol irans president announces low risk occupations will resume despite fears of a 2nd wave of infections also. If it were me i might do it anyway i may take it ok i may take it on the us president continues to tout a medication that is not proven to treat coronavirus and poses potentially dangerous side effects. And will explore the idea of immunity passports for people who for Coverage Even though questions do remain about resistance. And sport bright reseize want to basketballs highest honors a former n. B. A. Superstar who died in a Helicopter Crash earlier this year is been inducted into the leagues hall of fame. Beginning europe or krone virus numbers are giving some cause for hope spanish Officials Say another 674 people have died there and yes that is awful but its the 3rd day in a row that the death row has fallen from 130. 00 but doubt fallen by 135. 00 from the previous day the infection rate is also slowing u. K. s announce another 621. 00 deaths which like spain is fewer than the day before or more weather though is drawing people out of their homes in the u. S. President donald trump says americans should prepare for the toughest week yet lets go to the web tracker now from Johns HopkinsUniversity Shows the u. S. Has by far the most cases more than 312000 globally 1200000 have been infected almost 253000 have recovered about 66500 have died so right now we have marked a hero standing by in madrid well go to her in just a moment 1st lets go to jonah hall who is in london so jonah what is the latest with the numbers what the trends are and the possibility that restrictions may be tightened. Well i mean look the daily increase in the death toll announced and