On up front today its the biggest story in the world as a coronavirus pandemic keeps spreading how is it that south korea seems to have controlled it and why is the United States so far behind ill ask a top scientist in seoul and the Top Republican in the us. South korea has more than 8000 cases of the coronavirus but so far remarkably theyve managed to avoid the staggering death tolls weve seen elsewhere in the world from covert 19 the disease caused by the virus how do they do it and should other countries follow their lead joining me now to discuss this is dr jerome kim a leading american physician and Research Scientist based in the south korean capital of seoul where hes directed general of the International Vaccine institute jerome kim thank you for joining me from. The coronavirus throws the entire world into unprecedented chaos south korea has been hailed as a Success Story as a model even for the rest of the world is that a fair description and. So i think that every country will have its own approach you know the chinese exerted pretty draconian government control over movement of people it but then did the same thing that the koreans are doing they practice social distancing they aggressively pursued a test treat isolate and. They track people down if they can find them they close schools and they can all these things are things that the koreans did they never the korean government never shut down restaurants for instance and that you know i think is kind of interesting its never walled up but city and again when the koreans heard that they should stay at home in their practice social distancing people by and large did so so so what specifically is that the South Koreans done that has helped keep the death toll much lower than other countries and some of the positions so one of the things is that they opened up Testing Centers that people could drive in and go through they made it all 3. And you know once they identify people they they put them into quarantine and that early that ability to identify people who might be infected to isolate them was probably very important and more difficult to do in setting like in italy where it looks like there are actually a lot more there was a lot more spread that was not noticed or in the United States for instance in the nursing home at seattle where you had to see a lot of deaths before you realized that there was actually something going on in the community you mention the importance of testing in south korea you mention the United States where youre from how is it that south korea was able to what has been testing Something Like 20000 People Per Day i think theres been 5000 tests per 1000000 people in a country of just over 50000000 people in the u. S. Its 100 tests per 1000000 up until very recently why is it the south korea a country that doesnt have the wealth or many would argue the technology of the United States of america has been able to get tests out of the door so quickly working test drive through and the u. S. And other countries havent been able to do that why so i think part of it is preparedness right the other thing is that south koreas biotechnology industry is very robust its very active there are lots of Companies Small companies that are set up and spin outs of universities where. The people who are in charge are scientists and they found you know they the chinese publish the sequence of the crown of ours these Companies Look at it and they rapidly develop test but the difference between a University Lab and a company is that the company can manufacture things and the government was then prepared to examine those kits and and to prove that they were good kids the same way that projects in development you know seppi the coalition the demick preparedness had identified organizations that could respond quickly with extreme development so again this is a part of knowing whats there and and having people who understand how to develop kits i mean these Molecular Diagnostics are pretty sensitive and specific if you know what youre doing realistically you mentioned vaccines how soon is it going to be how soon is it going to be until we see an actual working effect a vaccine obviously theres a lot of red tape involved rightly involved in testing a vaccine before you put it out to the general public but all the line right now you see a lot of people making all sorts of claims about how near or far we are away from a vaccine you run the International Vaccine institute what kind of time and we talking about so at any party whos. Very well known and very well respected at we will know the answer of whether the vaccine works in 12 months and depending on how you know the approvals process goes to the u. S. At the a or through other regulatory agencies then with expedited review of the data on both where that actually works and very importantly if the vaccine is safe. Approval could come within weeks and assuming that the company has been scaling up manufacture during the time when the final tests were done then a vaccine could come online very shortly after the you know the approval. Most Companies Like the big company when theyre doing a vaccine or in the final piece of testing are already developing the manufacturing facilities in order to have the vaccine when once its a crew so you know what seppi it will be a little different because its not a big company and youre saying elaborating 12 months to get it check it works and then a few weeks after that to get the approvals. Well. To see that it works then you know say 7 weeks to month. To get the Regulatory Approvals and assuming that the company has been scaling up manufacturing then you could have seen you know the radically. I dont know its hard to say one to 6 months later so a year to 18 months is obviously still a very long time for people who are suffering from the illness a lot of people are going to die in that time period lets talk about some of the measures that are being taken to trying to contain the number of deaths south korea you mentioned china took some draconian steps south korea has taken some extreme measures to that some people some people might say is a kind of you know in a normal world is a violation of Civil Liberties or peoples privacy since the outbreak the countrys been monitoring the movements of those people have tested positive theyve been using information obtained from cell phone records credit card receipts other private data to let the general public know where people have been where there have been outbreaks down to i think which seats people have sat in movie theaters is that the kind of sacrifices that a free society has to make in order to fight this pandemic so i think every country will will have a different balance the need for privacy and the need for Public Safety and we do this all the time right i mean this case you have the help of the nation or the health of the city and you have individual rights and so you know i think a lot of people dont mind because you know they want to know where they might potentially have been exposed particularly if they develop symptoms the other very important thing is that it helps the government to rapidly identify the outbreaks and it controlling that by wrists. Limiting its spread is built by the government an overarching priority. You know you have to have laws in place that very carefully explain what the balance of privacy versus he is and the korean government act. That as successful as south koreas been in responding to this pandemic were also now seeing reports of new clusters of infections exuding 129 that were linked to a call center in seoul a region thats home to 23000000 people is the country prepared youre there on the ground is south korea equipped to wage a long term war against covert 90 because this is not going away any time soon is it the dangerous complacency thinking youve beaten it when you havent. And i think the thing that a lot of people have been emphasizing is that they may have one but 1st battle but this is a war and and like a war winning that battle is important but its not the only thing and really what the governments ultimate aim might be is to restore normality to like you know the return to normalcy. And and the only way to really achieve that is to use a vaccine you have to be able to ensure that as people carry on their activities that you be lit daily living that that theyre going to be protected one last question before we finish youre an american citizen you were born and raised in the u. S. Youre now working in seoul as an Infectious Disease specialist in a country thats had more cases of covert 19 than any other country in east asia but china where would you rather be right now where would you feel safer south korea or back here in the u. S. So actually for me and for my family i i dont think it matters we would follow as much as we could. See it social distancing we would probably a good hand hygiene we would protect ourselves and protect others and i would counsel other people to do the same but it looks like youve actually has also got it must make a difference to be living and working in a country where the government takes it seriously as opposed to a country like the u. S. Where some of your friends former colleagues dr anthony felt she and others are having to work under a president who until a few weeks ago was calling this a hoax. Yeah i you know i think dr tachi dr burke stuck to read field and i actually worked for all of them really are a good team they know what theyre doing theyre very competent theyre directed they will start issuing the kind of clear messaging that you need i mean you know as a country you have to be decisive messages have to be clear and there has to be an integrated response and you know the United States actually was considered by many to be better prepared for this than many countries theyre a little bit behind the 8 ball now but i think that that with the right team in place that theyll catch up. Dr jerome came thank you for joining me right up front. Here in the United States there have been more than 100 deaths with the number of confirmed cases over 10000 with the stock market in freefall the trumpet administration is finally taking the krona virus seriously but while major cities like new york and San Francisco are shutting down experts are warning that the countrys Health Care System is about to be overwhelmed joining me now to discuss the u. S. Governments handling of this crisis is mike leavitt a former republican governor of utah who also served as a us secretary of health and Human Services under president george w. Bush mike leavitt thanks for joining me on outfront lets talk testing my previous guest on the show out of seoul was telling me about how south korea pulled off so many tests more than 5000. 00 per 1000000 people here in the u. S. You have about 100. 00 tests per 1000000 by the end of february the South Koreans were testing 10000 people a day well in the 1st week of march u. S. The u. S. Had only tested about 1500 people total thats a scandal isnt how can anyone explain the how do you as someone whos worked to the highest levels of government when you see stuff like that how do you explain or justify that to people. In the after action report is written on this episode its clear to me that a couple of things will have been worms the 1st is that they need to open up to. 2 tests that have been validated in other countries yes the 2nd is that they need to spend some time and effort and well in advance of this merchant see to develop the means by which those can be aggregated i think a 3rd thing that should be acknowledged is that will this. Nature of the american demographic meaning its just spread out theres 330000000 people its a its a substantially bigger challenge but its going to be very clear that this will be seen as a weakness i think that it is being overcome or within the course of time. But its cost us time and i think theres no question that it has weakened our response when you took over as the u. S. Secretary of health and Human Services in 2005 you talked about how quote woefully underprepared the u. S. Was for a major disease outbreak you then drafted a plan i believe over the following year to deal with a potential flu pandemic this time around though there was no real planning done because discovered a republican president got rid of the u. S. Governments Global PandemicResponse Team in 2018 hes tried to cut the budget for the center for Disease Control and prevention the c. D. C. Surely those were incredibly reckless irresponsible things to do if you would still be in the cabin at that time im guessing you would have been advising against it. Well the pen demick plan that i was deeply involved in leading it was about a 3 year project and candidly it remains underpinning of our National Response plan it was used in the Obama Administration and in dealing with the h one n one flu vaccine and that was considered to be a success at the same plan exists now and many of this and all of the same resources are there i think that we have can to we may have on the under testing part i dont think were going to find out as having been well executed but getting rid of the Global PandemicResponse Team in the National Security council just 2 years ago. Well theres some dispute about actually what happened and im not here to defend that one way or the other but i do doubt is that the United States now was responding in a very robust way the closing of businesses with the closing of schools and universities with complete suspension of many of our stores leagues and no meetings thats a quite remarkable response that i think well look back on and say there was a lot of american willingness to do so now there will be cuts of it that will be criticized and thats always the case youre right to say its been remarkable just seeing it happen in front of our eyes definitely remarkable you mentioned sport in sports leagues businesses but on the other hand of course you also have beaches in florida full at the weekend you have bars and clubs fill filled to the brim of the weekend in new york and chicago and boston a lot of people still not taken as seriously still listening to the guidelines and and therefore should there be more draconian measures taken because a lot americans wont do it on their own. My guess is that that could happen in many cities to the degree that this is happening well into early and to the degree that we begin to see the large sharp spikes in a number of cases d well likely see additional measures taken to assure that. Youve also famously said in the past that quote anything said in advance of a pandemic seems alarmist after a pandemic begins anything one has said or done is inadequate the problem now mike leavitt is not just that many people believe the response to be totally inadequate but that the president himself was the opposite of alarmist in the run up to this crisis in january trauma saying we have it very well under control and its a very little problem he said in february it will miraculously go away by april he again said he had it very much under control and also claim that the democrats were using as a hoax to make him look bad how Many American lives do you think of be unnecessary loss because this president wasted more than 6 weeks downplaying and dismissing the threat from this virus. Well given what we know now those statements are impossible to defend however i do think that whats important is whats happening now and in the next 4 weeks not what happened before what happened happened we now have to as a people rally to assure that we in fact respond now as you pointed out there are been about 100 deaths and thats regrettable that 0 is what we would hope for but thats not likely to be what will occur and so we in the United States like people all over the world have got to respond there are good examples around the world and there are bad examples around the world we need to emulate the good ones in the void the bad ones you mention you know theres been a 100 cases and you wish it was 0 trump said less than a month ago you have 15 people and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be close to 0 thats a pretty good job weve done of course we now have close 210000 cases and more than 100. 00 dead you say its you know we should look forward and i understand that point but the importance of looking back is the only way you can move forward is if you can take the people with you and a poll out this week shows only 40 percent of republicans 40 percent of people who vote for your party see the coronavirus today this week as a real threat compared to 76 percent of democrats is it not because of whats happened over the past few weeks doesnt the need to be some acknowledgement by the president that he got it wrong now hes saying i always knew it was a pandemic im giving myself a 10 but the reality is there are people in this country who dont think its a threat precisely because the president told them for 6 weeks it wasnt a threat but i can only speak for myself i am a republican take this very seriously and i think increasingly as people become aware of what a serious circumstance this is pandemics are part of biologic history theyre part of the history of Human History and they reshape the economics they reshape this. So she ology and economics that were now moving into a new phase in the in this. In. This trite and thats what it is its a battle between people and microbes and we have to be aggressive in our fight and i think its clear that were going to be seeing every american resource directed this you say you mention your republican your republican governor a republican cabinet secretary as a republican who took this stuff seriously as a republican right now in this interview clearly takes this stuff seriously do you regret the behavior of your party in recent weeks when i celebrate it is that we are taking it seriously ive never been through many large scale emergencies ive been through terrorist events ive been through major weather events ive been through earthquakes ive been through a lot of different types of crises and what ive learned is that theres always a time. When after the fact you can go back and say what should we have done differently but there is virtually no value today in looking back we have to look forward and we have to as a country build on the strength of the american will which has been demonstrated by the fact that im working at home and most people who will hear this from the United States will be working at home and staying at home theres been a unified response if you could have said 3 months ago could you see republicans and democrats working together to create a set of legislation that would pass in the week they would cut that impossible no i understand that and and thats and i appreciate up on is a valid point but when you talk about people staying home you know 100 percent right people are staying home but yet days ago not weeks ago not months ago days ago the governor of Oklahoma RepublicanCalifornia Republican devon it was saying go out go to the restaurants go out thats not history thats happening right now and people like yourself shouldnt you be able to say you know what thats wrong i know the members of my party but its not helping the Public Health effort may i say i dont think this is broken down strictly along partisan lines and im clearly an example of bad and there are many others many governors who have been saying. Very it from the very early on weve got to act. And it makes really no preserves no practical purpose after that to occur today well have an election in 6 months im sure thatll be part of the discussion but today we need to talk about what were doing to prepare and how it is were going to end shacked as a culture and as a society and as a world this is not something that any one country suffers on its own its one that were in together if president from the rain up today and i ask you for a one piece of advice something hes not doing that he should be doing what would you say what would advice would you give him. I would just say you are following a well grounded plan now there is a pandemic plan follow the lead the scientists who have experience with this doesnt mean that all of them a lead those who have been elected dont have to make the decisions they do but following the advice of Public Health officials who studied this for years and that grounding their decisions based on data and facts is the important thing you had state says some treasures Tony Fouchier is a person i worked with for a long time were seeing a lot of him its because hes a seasoned thoughtful scientifically based leader who i think is doing a great job there have been reports of President Trump tried to offer a German Company large sums of money to get exclusive access to a vaccine for the current virus only 3 use in the United States and surprisingly the germans werent happy the German Government are on record saying this vaccine for the whole world not for individual countries trying to buy vaccines only for your own country to hell with the rest of the well thats the behavior of a sociopath is it not. Well i dont have any evidence that 1st of all that its true and 2nd of all i do all i know enough. About having played this out a number of times about. Economics and sociology in the politics of vaccines and the global basis to know that when we get to the point of having vaccine will be a lot of these discussions and it wont just involve the United States or any one leader and as i say i have no evidence that any of that is true we began with ok and weve seen a growing list of celebrities from the Actor Tom Hanks to basketball stars from multiple n. B. A. Teams that theyve tested positive for covert 19 in recent days they got tested quickly and promptly and many of ordinary americans look at that especially Health Care Workers and theyre saying well were on able to get tested is that another reminder that in the u. S. Especially when it comes to health care the does seem to be one rule for the rich and powerful one rule for everyone else mayor bill de blasio of new york came out this week and said its not right that you know rich sports stars are getting tested and you know poor and nurses or Health Care Workers are not whats your feeling on all of them. Could 19 is no respecter of persons and i feel confident that. News new society that is not in or is in fact. The sociology that comes with power of shame and. Its just human nature i suspect its not fair but its just human nature and hopefully well get to the point that everyone can have it and that quality will be that youre a conservative obviously a former senior official in the Republican Party a party thats long advocated for small government for a smaller state what do you say to those who point out that no ones a conservative or a libertarian in a pandemic everyone is a kind of a socialist i mean everyone including donald trump your friend senator mitt romney of utah once the government right now to step in and save the day to spend trillions of dollars to bail out the economy and american people. One thing i believe we can say with certainty and confidence and that is there is a role for everyone in this kind of an emergency i have said repeatedly that anyone who use the federal government as being able to ride to their rescue will be sadly and tragically disappointed not because theres a lack of will or because theres a lack of wallet but because even the federal government doesnt have the capacity to be everywhere the only assets they have actually are those at the state local level and so even any way you look at this were going to have a need for every sham really to have a pandemic plan or every business to have a plan for every church for every university and college every small every every city and chaldee thats the nature of why this is so complicated and so potentially destructive so you know us and politics are what they are but a cold at 19 and viruses dont have politics they attack and their job is to in to to to find the most hosts they can inside of the bodies of human beings and animals and we have to as a people as a world we have to fight back mike leavitt thank you so much for joining me on outfront. Im not so certain outfront will be back next week. Business leaders does vote to buy no bra spocks. Business leaders just want to buy no bra spocks. When you see big groups of people walking through your theyre all individuals with children the law apes you have to deal with them and to treat them with some dignity in respects. 10000 deaths globally from the corona virus the w. H. O. Warns a significant number of those leading hospital care arounds of the age of 50. I have a message for young people you are not invincible this virus could put you in hospital for weeks or even kill you. Other than have a hit in and this is al jazeera life london