Hey welcome to the stream ok turkey is hosting 4000000 refugees sheltering from war and pacification but now it is allowing thousands of people to cross its borders to greece hungaroring athens and the e. U. As a war of words continues today we are all the voices of refugees being heard you can send your thoughts from twitter. Greek Authorities Say they have stopped thousands of refugees from trying to enter the country since the turkish government announced the opening of its western border in late february turkeys president directly i had one or wants to and i quote him here share the burden of coping with people who have fled syria afghanistan and other war zones he says that the European Union is not meeting the terms of a 2016 deal granting aid to turkey in exchange for it hosting refugees but while turkeys gates are open greeces remains shut Prime Minister kitty accor smiths attack it says that greeces borders are also europes borders and so far the e. U. Has publicly supported athens the dispute is also playing out on live with people sharing opposing hashtags such as greece attacks refugees angriest defense europe meanwhile hundreds of refugees are still trying to leave turkey despite the risks i was still in which were facing a bit of pressure sometimes from the Turkish Police they tell us you either leave here with smugglers or we take you back to istanbul but were waiting here for an official decision we dont want to get smuggled in across illegally were waiting for official decisions or deals to enable us to enter legally we dont want to do anything illegal or corage of us and we. See them is an aljazeera correspondent in turkey she joins us from a stambaugh dont sara polis is an aljazeera correspondent in greece he is just outside the greek capital athens and from athens were joined by eva coast say she is a Greece Research at Human Rights Watch hello everybody just give us up to date we saw a couple of weeks ago these incredible scenes of refugees trying to cross from mainland turkey into mainland going east what is that Border Crossing like today. I mean i know fishel numbers for today so say that there are around 40 showers and Asylum Seekers and migrants goddards being at the border and the border and the nearby villages still trying to cross through the border to increase and still being pushed back by greek authorities. To turkey actually we just today published a report from our rights court where we document how these are beating abusing sexually harassing my roots in Asylum Seekers who cross to greece and who have been pushed back back to turkey shut their doors so let me say that a size of the story john it feels a little bit simplistic but theres definitely a position here what is it. Well the greek position fundamentally changed after start 327 when turkey announced it was deliberately opening its borders and actively promoting refugees and inviting them to cross into europe via greek lotus from that moment on greece ceased to see the refugee crisis as a humanitarian crisis it suddenly became a crisis. For the sovereignty of greece a test of greeces ability to defend its borders from a threat that comes from greeces traditional rival turkey and it became a defense issue it became a National Security crisis and the humanitarian elements the fact that these people coming across the borders are not military targets was lost. Greece actively and openly. Did pushbacks at the land border and at the maritime border turkey released video on march 2nd showing 3 coast guard vessels pushing back refugee fields or of the dinghies with a long wooden poles which i think in turkeys calculation would show greece up to be acting badly illegally and so on but europe actually applauded this and when european leaders came to the greek land border with turkey they said that europe is the greece is defending european borders dont deny that is that is the atmosphere that that has prevailed since february 27th so im just going to cut from from my you left off that is he said that because this is a group says that this is defending its borders and it was an attack not missing a humanitarian aid a plus some things for me and he found it on a video of it he was discussing just saw a child drowned of the coast of greece off the countrys coast guard attempted to stop about carrying refugees and many versions of. What happened in this instance but let me show you the video that i have right here. 7 says son and that was a little 6 year old boy that died that that drowned and so. So many refugees have of died trying to get into europe when turkish people saw that video what was their reaction. Well femi turkish people have always been very upset about the refugee situation because because what is happening with the refugees is also happening with the turks turkey opened the doors for the Syrian Refugees when the uprising started in 2011 now is alone with more than 3600000 Syrian Refugees and almost 4000000 refugees including the pakistanis afghanis and others so it was a map setting video it was again very. It was a tragedy for the talks that like the ones happened a couple of years ago before tricky and even made the refugee deal back in 2016 but i have to say that family turkeys target is not greece in the situation because there is a deal signed in 2016 according to this deal besides the bilateral. By literally months like these are free to travel and etc the deal is suggests that in europe in repair creates those refugees back to turkey the refugees are not almost syrians you have afghans you have pakistanis who are walking on food crossing iran and coming to turkey to go to europe and when you accuse those refugees took against some Syrian Refugees so you have takes who they were syrian they want however they plant some money and they pledged to give shoulder for the political responsibly but Nothing Happened the money that was pledged as 3. 00 plus 3 in total 6000000000. 00 euros never came to the turkish government it came to the international n. G. O. S who give support to the refugees in turkey so turkey turkey wants some support from west when it comes to the situation in a you know you have the escalations on a loop and the Syrian Government violates the cease fire is the end of the escalation borders over there europe was silent and turkey just wanted to play this card that it has of course some sometimes it is perceived as a black mayor but turkey has reasons when from on course perspective turkey has a very small interest and turkey into just. So john there has long been theres long been a view held by a Greek Migration analysts that turkey has its hands on them on the tap as it were the turkey has always held it within its power to hold back all released refugees and that was demonstrated amply i think in the e. U. Turkey agreements statement that you mentioned in march 2016 when after this agreement was signed the flows immediately stopped so turkey demonstrated that it had the ability to put its hand on the tap and stop the flow now its has demonstrated the opposite of course such the other side of thats ability which is to open the. The greek government has said that we are now the defenders of europes orders because we need to this turkey of this weapon theres a strategic reason for greece behaving the way it has done. Not only for its own sovereignty not only to demonstrate that it has the ability to control its borders which as you well know has always been. A vitally important issue of National Defense and security. Both for greece and for turkey but also in order to take a weapon out of the hands of turkey with which so the europeans can then the go see able to go on a different basis the greek government considers that it has succeeded fairly well in that so its sort of taken its taken this weapon this threat of flooding europe with refugees away from from turkey because what we saw in the land border with everest. Was a very effective rebuttal of tens of thousands of people and on the maritime border we simply didnt see the onslaught my assumption was as i was covering the story from lesbos and id be interested in hearing your view that the entire industry that had been built up in 201520165 smugglers who is sending these refugees into the aegean has been dismantled that the boat building capacity is no longer there but you may have a plan operating idea or so to sign on and john im just going to allow the other people to get into this conversation so how tight from iran i know exactly down to because this is a story that you have both been covering so deeply over the last few last sinan excuse me eva on. Chat before we actually started the show there are concerns that techie is not the refugee camp of you that is that a fan assessment of how talking is being treated. Well i actually did turkey hold the largest number of refugees across the world so it is it holds i must draw a 1000000 number of yes almost 4000000 and. Then theres a question whether greece is also the refugee camp of the euro and what we see here is a political game east unfortunately refugees or some seekers Migrant Women men children being used i ask bones in these games and these weapons that john and hes spoken about has been created because. The you are allowed to create it looks think about it its not. About the numbers even in 2000 fish being a 1000000 people wanting to help its not arianne crises its manageable numbers its the way that the e. U. Responded that made it a crisis and what we believed right now was that the e. U. They created an opportunity to you know to not repeat past mistakes and actually treat these people these time waste your money no coward situations at the border with support to greece by relocating people where i bring reason because of course more look countries cannot eva tell us about tell us about the conditions of refugees are living in on the islands on the greek islands going this is really important explain i mean i think the conditions in the greek islands are just caucus told someone who will listen pianists wont believe that this is happening you know going to be a country just unless one imagine that the proceeding there that is designed to cost less than 3000. 00 people right now has more than 25000. 00 people and were talking about the vast majority being children families you have people who really these older people single women and most of them are from afghanistan and by those of from syria and iraq and eat i mean its unbelievable that this is happening in european story theres no access to basic seeing such as shelter water sanitation and seeing the women that weve spoken weve heard described how they fear going to the toilet because of you know no security in a place thats when people so obviously theres no you know security. Is also the risk of fraud ana that they have to the coronavirus of course because so many people are living so close together dont you are leaning forward go ahead i was just saying i was just the things they were was saying. Were touching me because ive just been a noria camp on lessness is is it is filled 7 times over capacity and you walk through the narrow alleys between the 2 the tents that have been set up the round the official camp because efficient camp can no longer contain everyone and the ground is muddy there are these beautiful beautiful children most of them ask Walking Around with smiles on their faces mud all over them. Theyre picking up rubbish because the rubbish isnt all cleaned the way the contract is supposed to clean it. And theyre making toys out of it theyre like i think theyre fires with plastic bottles theyre using that as 5 stars because its more inflammable than the wood that theyre gleaning from all of the groups that theyre living in and theyre trying to make the best of it lighting fires to ease up their lunch they are building their own sharks houses the wooden pallets that freight is shipped in they sleep like sardines in a 16 to 8 people in a tent about 2 meters by 3 misses where is eva said its very easy for a virus to become contagious and pandemic and it was a fire and it was a fire yesterday. Which killed that i have youre thinking what im thinking go ahead talk about the fire yeah what the fire yesterday and that killed the 6 year old boeing. And its not the 1st prior to being and there was a fire just there in the end in the fall of 2001001 guy and the container was burned. And the being danced every now and then from accidents from stabbings right and because of be there the weather conditions ok so so so guess let me just service with our International Audience so. Having the humanitarian crisis right that i want you to also hear the greek Prime Minister and also the turkish president talking about the situation there like this lets have a listen you love up on from im a political greece always and i want to be completely clear on this weve discussed it many times with the german chancellor recognized and recognizes that turkey has a Critical Role to play in handling the refugee problem and it needs the help of europe to do it but this cannot happen and i think everyone realizes it now under conditions of threats and blackmail using freeing people as pawns. Mazel it in europe to. You know there is no difference between those images on the Greece Border and what the nazis did whenever they did it nazi camps you have seen the greeks do the same on behalf of the west as if they were paid public servants. So now im just looking at an op ed from the guardian were from present which is from 26 days when the well felt syria turkey stepped in and now all this must help phosphor to 2020 and this for the daily news you will share the burden of refugees how did and is present to make sure of that talking turkey has done enough or what next for turkey. Well for me for sure when you look from ankaras perspective turkey has is full in hence then it has a bomb shell with almost 4000000 refugees including more than 3600000 Syrian Refugees and from caracas for specter anchors perspective the euro hasnt hasnt actually realize what they have promised to turkey in terms of Political Support in terms of Financial Support and their don has always been talking about this 3600000000 euros that the euro passed pleasure as i said that money is for 3000000000 of this money it came to the international n. G. O. S not to turkey entering his stays to get claims they havent met they have spent more than 4000000000. 00 so far for the Syrian Refugees and prays very determined to sort out the situation and on chorus trying to push europe to share the burden and. I have to say that greece and turkey are in the same position yes greece is the 1st station of the European Union one comes to the refugees outside europe turkey is the last station so thats why our prisons are down always when he was referring to the greeks he always said you know why are you trying to defend europe because those people are not any good to go to Greece Greece all of that has its own problems. Im just looking here at a statement on from the European Commission is how my laptop is quite long a couple of things have a European Mission sainty finding a solution to the situation with a quote relieving the pressure that is put on the border and vava again we will require supporting both greece and turkey to deal with the pressure they are under so you think christians seeming to be very appreciative of both sides in the pressure that tacky and going on to but what does that actually mean in practice john what do you see i think i think from the greek point of view at least it means a common asylum policy in europe it means common guidelines adopted unanimously or at least by a majority of states that govern how on what criteria Asylum Seekers are admitted and secondly a permanent mechanism for moving Asylum Seekers from the european external border countries to its core so that everyone shares the. As their economies and their population size allows this has been resisted very strongly when it was introduced as an idea in much of 2015 by the European Commission which even the push and a certain percentage of asylum cases to each e. U. Country on the basis of the size of its population and the size of its economy greece was a potions 1. 6 percent of the e. U. Asylum cases its currently handling about 10. 6 percent because under the current rules d people have to apply in the external port a country they 1st arrived in of the European Union so i think for the greeks theres 2 things a fundamental we have to have a common asylum system and we have to have a sense of solidarity through a permanent relocation and burden sharing mechanism and i think a lot of people have also spoken in favor of the read. Settlement mechanism taking people directly from the middle east and from turkey into europe doing their asylum interviews outside the e. U. And resettling them into the e. U. So that they dont have to undertake these dangerous Border Crossings and maritime Border Crossings that would also relieve turkey as much of its burden but theres a big footnote to all of this theres a fundamental difference between greece and Turkey Greece is a pure recipient country turkey is also an active participant in the syrian war it has launched 3 incursions into syria and it has caused population movements of its own and the turkish president has lately spoken of his desire to move many of the Syrian Refugees in turkey into Northern Syria john this is a very tricky proposition because those areas that are kurdish still many people see that has geopolitical chess playing. John john by the way there are at least 300000 Kurdish People who escaped the p. G. A. In syria and to crawford and inside turkey yes turkey had 3 military incursions inside syria again as what the greeks are doing to the bend they are borders because from the borders besides and refugee influx there is that Terror Threat for turkey to y. P. Do we choose the syria branch of the our Kurdistan Workers Party if you kick it so turkeys to turkey syria border issue is more complicated and more security oriented than what we are seeing between turkey and greece in terms of some advice gratian issue that me i really want to bring this back to the refugees because one of the one of the questions we asked us who is listening to the voices of the refugees i want to go back just a week or so to a certain refugee who is now in greece and he was so scared he wont tell us his name but this is what he had to say but really i dont want i dont one a bring me bank to turkey because. Turkey is not my country my country is syria i am from syria if he could get for example greece if you want to beg me make it me to my country to syria if you cant buy get me to leave me here give it to go this die and i am afraid afraid to deport mean turkey im afraid from this so much. Eva this must be so frustrating for you because youve been talking about this containment policy and tukey the such a long time that this isnt necessarily a solution to the refugee crisis what might be. Whether 1st i want to say that i mean were discussing about the what trick you paunch what chris wrong and and and and Border Protection but lets not forget that in their way that greece were taking a borders right now there are shoot sure our rights are Rights Violations and the problem is that the e. U. Is praising greece for doing so and yes there needs to be a humane collective response to the migration challenges that greece is facing shared responsibility theory location backed and and greece needs to be told by the youth that they need to stop what theyre doing at the borders because were talking about people yes the syrian is afraid to go back to turkey because i mean we have like a minor how tricky people back to syria and and writing International Law by doing so and turkey is not i am i mean under International Law i say country person and if so greece needs to. Accept people in its borders and treat them humanely and by and by and by respecting their rights all right also what. Greece. This is the lawsuit you know about to make the sentence greece needs to respect look at human rights afresh. Thank you this is such a complex conversation. C. N. N. 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