Saudi arabia arrests the kings brother and all the royals accused of plotting against the crown prince is muhammad bin selman consolidating his power and what are the implications of this latest purge against dissent this is inside story. How and welcome to the program im jonah how saudi arabias crown princes had a controversial rise to power in just 3 years mohamed bin salmond has silenced nearly all voices of dissent at home critics have been jailed or even killed and he appears to be tightening his grip on power even further media reports suggest at least 20 princes officials and Army Officers have been arrested in the kingdoms latest purge they include former crown Prince Mohammed bin nayef here he is on the right after he was removed as to the throne in 2017 but the most high profile arrest is the kings last foot surviving full brother prince had been up to allows these the royals have been accused of plotting to overthrow the crown prince but the saudi government hasnt officially responded to the reports in 2018 prince ahmed returned to the kingdom just weeks after he appeared to criticize the saudi leadership during a protest against the saudi war in yemen. Oh my. What does the whole of the al saudi family have to do with this there are certain individuals responsible the king the crown prince and others in the state well mohammed bin style man has pushed through a series of controversial policies and decisions since he became crown prince he launched what he called an end to Corruption Purge in 2017 detaining dozens of princes and Business Leaders at the ritz carlton in riyadh many were freed after turning over large parts of their wealth the crown prince also led crackdowns on clerics bloggers journalists and womens rights activists hes come under International Criticism for saudi arabias role in the devastating war in yemen and mohammed bin selman is also believed to have ordered the killing of saudi journalist. And hes denied the conclusions of u. S. Intelligence agencies and an independent u. N. Report on the murder. Right lets get started and bring in our panel here in the studio in london weve got Roxanne Farman pharma and electra on middle east politics at the university of cambridge joining us on skype also from london david hurst editor in chief of the online publication middle east i and in washington d. C. Alley. Director of the Gulf Affairs Institute under former saudi political prisoner welcome to all of you thank you for being with us now the full extent of whats going on here may not yet be clear of course but lets begin by delving into whats behind this latest wave of arrests and ill turn 1st to you david hurst if i may is mohamed bin selman n. B. S. As hes more commonly known of course on the verge of seizing full power in saudi arabia. I think he is yes. There are indications. That he is. I think that. He wants to finish the job that was started when he ousted the cousin mohammed bin nayef. From from the post of crown prince i think things have been going badly for him ever since if you remember back in those days. The the crown prince was a new crown prince was at the height of his popularity. He was. A the the the fresh young thing the whos whos whos coming in blowing in and a new wave of reform even people like my late friend jamal how should she thought he was the new groom that was needed back in those days since and hes lost a lot of his popularity virtually nothing is going right to him certainly not the war in yemen not the i. P. O. Of around co the Oil Prices Going down and now youve got coronavirus as well and restricting or cutting and possibly also the house too so hes under a lot of pressure and i think he feels he needs to finish the job and so the need to crack down roxanne let me bring you in here what is the real threat to b. S. Is it a reputational threat essentially as david was outlining there or is there more to it all certainly i agree that many of his actions have not gone well and one of the issues is which allies he actually has in the court and those seem to be relatively thin on the ground and so his approach has been to be heavy handed d to establish his position. And to really strong arm members of the family particularly and this is extremely unusual for the saudi court and the family they tend to be inclusive and secretive and supportive. He has made it clear that no one is immune from his from his sword if you will let me bring in ali ali ali. Is there any question do you think of an actual plot afoot against m. B. s a coup in the making or is this a preemptive strike. It is both. There was planning. Was some plot how far it went its not clear yet but we know back in september 1 the personal bodyguard of the king was supposedly killed in a shootout that gave us a hint of what was. You know to the to part of that plot mystery for them was in contact with some members of the ruling family about some sort some plot that might have been involved in the killing of b. As you know in the court because mr vellum had access and mr benign if has supporters and one of his aides outside the country i think mr david publication will have something on it this week so there is something how large how. How far it has went. We dont know yet but we know what we know is that these members of the only family was sidelined we know one of those people who were as who were arrested in knife but i met is a military pilot and he had connections in washington and we know that people in washington especially in the democratic side of things in the cia former cia director for example john brennan was supportive of bringing him back home had been knifed to power so the all of these factors contributed to mohammad bizarre man decision to charge him with reason which means that some of these people at least would be executed. The uncle i believe he has nothing to do with this is just a precautionary. Because his son might may have been involved in since you mention Prince Albert and his son i mean a plot perhaps as you suggest nascent or otherwise. But perhaps enough to provoke fear and paranoia. Hes going substantially further than hes gone before david talked about the incidents of 2017 when hundreds of top level figures in the kingdom were gathered together in the Ritz Carlton Hotel including senior royals money was taken from them they were required to pledge their loyalty in the b. D. Institute n. B. S. Book but at that time prince knight and his son were spared they were thought to have cover because of king solomon what does it say that essentially no one now has any cover. The thats part of the plan in fact that to create a new system based on what we call a vertical process where the ruler goes from father to son then that will start with mohamed bin solomon know his father has given him the throne and then he will do that to his own son so in order to achieve that we need to clean house and strip down the monarchy to a bare minimum to to basically to what we people call asylum on ruling family not and there weve seen that happen for example in jordan in 99 so we have a basically a trend. To ensure power is concentrated to ensure the there is no conflict when you in the eightys and you know somewhat in the seventys where power was distributed in different camps of their own and family and we had you had what we called Power Centers now there is only a power center one powers and thats mohamed a busy man that has control of the military security the anonymous and the royal court but the reality is of course is still there he is the king let me bring in roxanne theres a suggestion that he signed off on these arrests including the rest of his only surviving. Brother hes 84 years old not in the best of health what does this say about what if anything remains of his hold on power well thats always been the question he clearly is suffering from dimentia very often its noted in the press that he was doing better at the time that he signed off on any given decree so its very difficult to know and this kind of the timing of this is and is certainly one of the issues that are being is being discussed is it because his health is failing considerably more the fact that he has been shown on television. During the appointment of of ambassadors over the last couple of days indicate he is still alive but the question is that is he getting rapidly worse in a way that we dont know or was this perhaps simply very good timing on m. P. s as part in a coronavirus has more or less shut the borders of saudi they have there are not any pilgrimages in action that clerics are off the off the scene for the moment as a result it may have been simply a very good moment for him to hit david what do you make of that king solomon as a sort of figurehead monarch all power now too and b s yes i would agree with the 1st 2 questions about the king himself one is that we really dont know. What his actual state of the main cheer is where were guessing there are various indications he he couldnt. Deliver a speech in sharm or sex some time ago or eos these 8 whether hed actually started a speech when he done the 1st paragraph there are the indications when he talked to president but im told. That was immediately after his death murder that he couldnt hold a conversation he stuck to a script however there are other indications that he talks freely with the kuwaitis so we have a contrast in. Evidence about his actual state of mind theres also a question of how free he actually is his son is an extremely ruthless and dangerous person without any scruples or morals whos already in prison his mother who has already ordered the deaths of other members of the royal family and ordered them mistreatment and torture so hes literally capable of doing anything and the question is to what extent his father is not a prisoner in his. Palis i know for instance his father likes to play a game to special game carts and he has his mates come to the palace one of them was refused entry in the king someone told him. Why arent you here one playing our game cant see several i try to get through the gates but i wasnt allowed to his father said ill ill deal with that the next time he turned up that the following week he was again refused and they students had not played cards to get this is an indication of the fact that the king salmon is not free to welcome even his own visitors or all of which begs the question david how much power does mohamed bin salmond need in order to feel secure as i was saying he already controls the principal leaders of power the military the Intelligence Services the elite National Guard hes now got all the royalty under his thumb his own father is a prisoner in his own kingdom as you suggest how much does he need to feel secure but he needs a crown he needs he he needs to he needs to be king the question is the circumstances in which now in which he is going to become king and when he does it these circumstances or the latest purge and this is really quite different form the other steps hes taken this is quite a risky step or a reckless step depending on your point of view its much more important in my view than the previous perch or even than the middle or of the subject let me let me bring in ali there with your insights what do you imagine the atmosphere is right now within the upper echelons of the kingdom the royal family and all the other sort of circles of power as a result of these events. I think some of them are angry i know at least of one who was basically very angry and sent somebody a you know message saying that i dont care so there is that tension but you know you realize that one thing that king solomon. In fact i know this man is generally good health for his age he does have. Early onset of dementia hes taking good medication but that saying that the man is not able to do much for himself even though he has he needs help with everything even putting his clothes on so but and so he doesnt have power he is just you know basically a painting on the wall and m. B. s controls everything so if he wanted to get even after his father he would he could do it in a day there is no i disagree he chooses not to do it because hes already rolling. This is hes doing this although i would say maybe over 50 percent of the ruling family hates him being in power because he has taken away much of their wealth put them under house at us or under close monitoring and thats natural so but the rolling family is violent each other is nothing new lets as remember that king faisal was killed by his own nephew king so it was overthrown by his brothers and confess of try to assassinate king saud and King Abdul Aziz killed his own. Brother so this is a family thats not the foreign to violence within the within itself that this is about government about to rule power so things will happen and i believe that m. B. A. s cannot afford to have mohamed bin naive who has supporters in washington. Free and even alive bring that up in a moment what what what will ordinary saudis be making of the student. But i think many saudis are happy that basically they say these people we had both sides so let them duke it out and you know there was quietly you know jubilant if anybody goes down its just because its a natural when you have a despotic regime people are happy when the despotic fight oh its actually mentioned Prince Mohammed bin return to bring you in here to talk about. For others to talk about the International Reaction hes a former interior minister close to u. S. Intelligence services well known abroad youve also got saudi arabia now very much under scrutiny for its role in yemen the ruinous war the rudeness for yemen that is that goes on and on and on the spotlight of course still very much on the murder of tomorrow show b. G. Which many people believe was ordered by mohammed bin some how does he explain away whats going on here to his International Allies do they can do they are questions what does he say well his choice of supporters would in fact i would imagine think that this kind of activity this being a bruiser is something to be admired then you talk about the trumpet nuestro or certainly the Trump Administration but he likewise has support. Very unusually since he took power in other quarters in the middle east including israel and it is very clear that when hes shown up at the g 20 he has good relations with modi there he has certainly got relationships with others who are known to value this kind of decisiveness this kind of ruthlessness as a form of taking control inclusive it is no longer the kind of value that it used to be so the problems in yemen the problems that hes faced with some of the other scandalous. Comes from a relationship for example when he tried to. Kidnap or was thought to have tried to kidnap the Prime Minister of lebanon many of his and devers have not turned out well but it really is the question is whether he learns from that or whether theyre important at all his more a duck that just simply sees the water come office back and he proceeds of the along the same way and i would agree the this is a even more ruthless more important step than weve seen so far david let me ask you in this age of. Rising populism with saudi arabias massive oil wealth with the allies that mohamed been summoned has chosen are there lessons for him to learn would he care to learn them or is this an age of impunity for somebody like the young prince. Its the nature of impunity i think this is driven fundamentally for local reasons or his his own reasons. Its interesting however that one of the reasons given for the basis for under all the rest it was given to reuters by what they call the regional source and i assume that was no amorality source im not certain not was that n. B. S. Had detected prints are meant to have discussions with the americans and others and they were plotting a coup this is very interesting statement because the americas you all know is that is the chief ally of the kingdom so the americans which americans i do know from prince ahmed says in a circle when he was still in london before he left that he was very hesitant about leaving and returning back to the kingdom and even considered. Exile simply because the question of of his possible arrest because he was such an open critic of been summoned and i was told on Good Authority that he had received assurances from my 6 and the cia on his return that he would not be arrested exactly what has happened now so when we talk about the americans were not necessarily talking about the white house will pompei oh we are possibly talking about the cia or the pentagon both of whom are antagonistic towards n. B. S. And they still support the north. Nodding away enthusiastically there is there anything they can do about it they may be antagonistic us Intelligence Services but what can they do. You bet your horses and their medications you will lose because a we have a picture of there now. You are thick or thin beano a given george tenent. Award to mohamed deny if just a few years ago. And now hes not saying anything about that s. And possible execution of the same guy he gave the award to so in terms of mad mad has no shot hed ever had a real shot at the throne he is the brother of the king hes been very. You know negative talk in the openly about n. B. s and it just happened yesterday i was talking to somebody who talked to i met personally and he told them not to go and this is what i told my friend that he says i do not cause you know i dont want to about this idiot meaning and b. S. So. I think i have made the return because he does not have ambition but hes and i stayed in my view because its just a precautionary he is not part of this supposedly plot its his son who is involved as a pilot so the idea here is that m. B. As has the support of the United States of the Top Administration has the support of the u. K. Government has the support of the Egyptian Government the u. A. E. And these are powerful countries that that can ensure his hold on power and the americans who are talking to these 219 are people who are former cia like john button and others who who are trying to get back and be in power especially after loses the election ok thats i think one of the reasons that the rover has to take action very quickly so the suggestion is that the Younger Generation in the upper echelons is pushing back essentially m. B. s is failing to produce the reform the i mean refuse the new blood that he sort of promised to do when he came to promising prominence in 2017 is he. Has he any. The chance of having his reputation restored do you think roxanna well certainly on that basis i think not but i think its a telling point that he was underestimated and i think he is showing that he that was a mistake that he should not have been underestimated he is approaching it in a very different way and much harsher and more aggressive way but that hes certainly establishing his position and he is silencing his critics inside i wouldnt be surprised if there is quite an exodus by a number of the members of the saudi family at this point in the winnowing down of the power and their fear i would imagine and the family would be running high at this point there is absolutely no escape so they will be leaving and he should certainly be respected for what he has achieved even though its not at all what what we anticipated he could and would have done had he been a different type of character well were going to leave it there thanks to all our guests roxane from and from my own david hurst and ali and thank you too for watching at home you can see the program again any time by visiting our website aljazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our Facebook Page thats facebook dot com forward slash a. 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In our other top stories this hour the saudi king makes a rare appearance after the reported arrests of 4 senior princes sparked room is about his health to the