A coronavirus outbreak has caused panic of around the world cities are in lockdown stock markets have tumbled on the basics including lost even toilet paper are running out so how should we deal with the anxiety this is inside story. Hello welcome to the program im Maryam Namazie as the corona virus spreads around the world so is the fear and anxiety despite scientists telling people not to panic many countries have suspended schools Public Events and imposed travel restrictions south korea has the 2nd highest number of cases off to china where the outbreak began 2 months ago it suspending a Visa Free Program with japan in response to tokyo imposing quarantine measures on south korean visitors other countries are denying entry altogether to visitors from high risk regions or opposing them into quarantine well this goes against the guidelines from the World Health Organization which says these measures are not always effective well the global outbreak is hazing businesses hard as well chinese exports fell by 17. 2 percent in the year to january factories a closed in the worlds 2nd largest economy affecting Global Supply chains share markets from new york to hong kong fell by up to 3 percent this week and an Airline Trading group says the industry could lose 113000000000 dollars this year. I know what. On the panic has caused a run on supermarkets in places like Australia Police in sydney were called in to stop shop was fighting over toilet paper shelves have been stripped bare of canned foods milk in Hand Sanitizer people fear theyll run out of surprise affair forced into quarantine south korea has now restricted the sale of masks to 2 packs of person a week. Okimoto its difficult to go without a mask and living without gas is no longer the norm when im not wearing one i feel warrant homewood all this is the 1st time i queued for a mask of pass by here several times but they didnt have any. For us its not easy to make ends meet were on the verge of bankruptcy. So lets bring in our panel then here in the studio we have dr Anthony Renshaw a medical director in Northern Europe international s. O. S. A health and travel Security Risk Services Company Philip Philip a financial analyst and economist and then also joining us on skype from hay on wye in wells in the u. K. But in paul a Health Care Engagement specialist very well welcome to you all thank you for joining us on inside story and let me begin with you weve seen this virus now spread across 60 countries on 6 continents in the space of 9 or 10 weeks how would you describe the way its making people feel and behave have you seen anything like this before but i think the scenario is fairly unique we know that epidemics can trigger a cycle of hysteria and complacency and anywhere in between and i think what were seeing here is somewhat predictable given the tremendous disruption that were seeing from the travel disruptions. Ns and plus the fact that the the virus has had some Health Impacts in a number of Different Countries not just physical but psychological impacts a lot of people are very stressed about the situation and finally its also having an impact on Business Continuity and a lot of organizations in particular are realizing that really now is the time to think about and act upon the threat of Infectious Disease on their business its interesting that you say their reaction to all of this is somewhat predictable but simple if i can come to you is the fear and anxiety justified when actually their fatality rate with this disease is very low and theyve also been thousands of people who have managed to recover from it since the outbreak began i mean clearly not you know its the difference is that the last time Something Like this happened in 2012 with mers for example you know social media was nothing more lucid or even though you know separate general pace that users doubled from 1000000000. 00 to 2. 00 plus 1000000000 in the space of 8 years its different today you know social media is prevalent in the sense that this panic buying so there was the video. Thats happened in australia has been shared in all over social media and theyre just generates panic and just it instills panic across the board because people keep sheria people keep sharing and thats how its happened this is whats different today and thats whats fueling all this character of my opinion yeah but let me just follow up on that because most of those who have died were either elderly or they had other ailments that compromised their immune system so when you look at the facts and the reality of the illness despite what you say about social media it the panic is unwarranted is if you if you dont fall into either of those 2 categories. You know thats true but just because you dont fall into those 2 categories doesnt mean you have somebody you love that falls into that category. If you look at it depending on what platform of social media you use or what our current additional gauge that you use the sweet spot of the age group is is you know its been around late thirtys or mid thirtys to 2 later mid fortys where you have elderly parents and then you also have children and those are the 2 most vulnerable categories and youre going to be concerned for those not just yourself and your your spouse but its those 2 spectrums that youre going to be concerned about so thats why thats the ongoing as well as facts thats happening with social media and Eric Phillips so perhaps social media is magnifying an existing level of fear and anxiety over this talking about whats happening in the markets because perhaps that turbulence exacerbating a sense of crisis over this what do investors fear one of the markets telling us well i think that were heading towards recession into was recession 1st because of the destruction that theres been to supply chains increasingly to production and spending with the exception of panic buying and as you mention a disruption to markets with the s. And p. 500. 00 down by roughly 10 percent with u. S. Companies no longer able to issue debt and increasingly Smaller Companies going to run into cash for problems and i think more on top of that you have the uncertainty nobody knows how bad its going to get and in those circumstances what which business wants to invest and which consumer wants to go out and make a big Ticket Purchase and all of that basically means that some were heading towards a recession i think. So auntie eventually does that fear and anxiety in the markets then simply reflect how people feel about how deadly and widespread this virus is going to be and then also how much disruption its going to cause to their lives. I think people are doing what they think is best in terms of their health behaviors. The individuals are realizing that they have a responsibility to protect the health of them themselves and their families those around them governments are realizing that they have a big role to play and increasingly employers are realizing what an impact this is going to have and so they can also influence runs for office and of the governments have a role to play so clear and Effective Communication is key right now companies have to come up with a policy for sick pay and to make sure that certain rules are established and thats made being made clear but is perhaps a sense of panic conference coming from the fact that both governments and Companies Might be woefully unprepared for Something Like this but i think organizations and governments are doing the best they can in a very unpredictable and very Uncertain Times theres a lot still that we dont know about this virus but increasingly as more research is done on the virus we are actually building quite a good picture of how this virus is behaving and there are more and more excellent resources now available to guide governments and guide businesses on what they should and shouldnt be do doing is that getting through to people that i think in or in many countries it is there are a number of countries that are doing very persuasive Public Health messaging weve seen the example of singapore for example with its excellent Health Messaging to the population but i think of more as a Gold Standard example many of said in the way theyve dealt with this but philip what are your thoughts on why anthony has just said. I mean if messaging is so effective then in why people freaking out and panic buying why i think part of problem is that the Global Economy was already quite weak and fragile it was weakened by the trade or between the u. S. And china. And the threat of that might. Resume its fragile because of the huge amount of debt of that there is across the economy and then weve seen you know the u. S. Federal reserve writing to the rescue this week with an exceptional half point Interest Rate cut and markets instead of rallying as they might have expected them to do actually have ended the week down but is that what that is there was a feeling of Interest Rate cuts or just not the adequate policy response to Something Like this absolutely i mean you know if youre a central banker you want to reassure people that you carry a big bazooka and in this case youre firing blanks i mean what use really is a rate cut in spurring someone whos afraid to go to work or free to go out and travel and spend you know the fact that its slightly cheaper to borrow is not going to get you to change your behavior but simple what are your thoughts on that the sort of policy responses we saw during the 2008 financial crisis that not adequate theyre not working now is tell us more about what governments should be doing then. You know i think that so when you mentioned singapore that is the Gold Standard you know the u. K. There are only recently put in action plan its a 30 page document i think that should simplify i think should there should be better communication to the public to levy a this panic or to stop the panic from happening i dont think theres enough communication it hasnt been consistent the messaging hasnt been consistent the World Health Organization you know they are the Gold Standard in terms of what information we get i think what people dont realize is that you have access as as it as a public user youve got access to all the latest and most credible sources of information on this and on this disease on this on this infection thats happening right now and thats through the World Health Organization the e. C. C. European centers these control prevention the c. D. C. The center of that the u. S. Version of that but the last an alley at you i just telling me about social media exe deepening paps a sense of crisis among people theres a plethora of information out there that people know where to go for the right information or in a is that perhaps a lot of and Accurate Information the is feeding into a sense of panic that thats exactly the point people dont know that thats whats you know its sparked the idea for me to write the book years ago if people dont realize where the credible source of information are so they will be be jumping on to anything they can search for example facebook and twitter have have cracked down over all these fake your estate prevention methods and all that stuff you know google has has made sure that now when you type intro to virus the most credible sources of information like the World Health Organization page where pop up is one of your 1st entries so its things like that people dont realize where the credible sources are and what to believe and what not to believe and how to decipher whats credible its not credible so that there is an event and an eventual and theres a great deal of information to sell it fair but the facts and the reality of this illness are out there and they are accessible to people and yet. Is the sense of panic a sign of a sort of information void i think with any crisis there is an element of anxiety and has to be a source of an anxiety now theres clearly a source of anxiety here but how we deal with that anxiety me is is how we can get around our. Our Crisis Response and the way we deal with that is to fix the the sources of uncertainty now we know for a fact theres a number of different pieces of information on how we transmit the disease we know how we can prevent transmitting the disease to others and we also know that there are certain measures that governments will take at certain stages within an outbreak to try and contain the disease or to try and mitigate it again it isnt working is it thats part of the problem. The certainly evidence that there is some containment thats been being done in china for example that actually has had quite a tremendous impact and so i think chinas quite unique example because theyre in a position to take measures that are unlikely to see replicated in other parts of the world well thats not necessarily a bad thing i think every country is different the response will do depend on what is practical in that country and what is thought to be most effective in that country and societies work differently there are collectivist societies there are individual istic societies and thats ok in previous outbreak responses there has been a shift of differences in between governments and how theyve dealt with outbreaks that is not in itself something to be concerned about what we all need to understand is why are we doing these containment efforts in the 1st place and thats to do with what the virus is all about its quite unique in that it has a quite a long incubation period which means that all of these containment measures that we are now concerned about actually make perfect logical Public Health sense at the right time once we understand that person paul what obviously governments are going through a process right now and maybe theyre trying to formulate a policy over this but it seems as though they have to now move beyond the policy of containment more to to mitigation and to response and particularly to diagnostic testing and in 1st world western countries we have seen that the rollout of diagnostic testing is just far too slow but the thing is is there is this there is uncertainty there is this unknown factor we dont know enough about this virus are leading medical specialists in the world dont know enough about this marshall there is this anxiety you know historically within society would have. It is that we dont know something and we were afraid of something thats going to affect us in our loved ones which are and to the leaders of the country so i think you know one of the most important things to call on this planet is going to come from the leaders its not just about putting out an action its a communication package you have to call on the public to arrow and thats going to come from leadership thats going to come off the ward and 25th when you look at pictures coming to us from well australia and even here in the u. K. Of panic buying doesnt seem as though the mood is a calm one necessarily how do you how do you make sense of this anxiety the impact of panic buying on society. You know what is driving this type of spending i think no panic buying is rushed or everyone else is doing it obviously the optimal solution would be for everyone not to panic buy but if you put it out as a link you officer yes exactly you want to get there 1st i think one factor is that we live in a major of a populous politicians people like donald trump who are good at shouting and making noise but not very good at governing and what we need is actually experts and technocrats all these maligned people who actually could get things done. And can put in place the measures that are needed to restore. The experts getting enough of a platform well i mean certainly theres been a return to medical experts people listening to them more but see if you look at for example Public Health in the United States its cruelly underfunded that said you know around the world there are things that governments can do to lessen the Economic Impact for example Central Banks can provide funding to banks so that they can. Extend loans to companies that are facing a cash crisis you know they can offer governments can offer tax rebates or tax deferrals and you know you can offer as the u. K. Is doing sick pay so that people who are off sick or who are afraid to go to work dont lose money there was an eventual. If governments were perhaps more proactive if the policy was response was clearer on stimulus measures on ways of preventing permanent or at least long Term Economic damage on things like sick pay perhaps that word that would come peoples agitation perhaps it would but i think what were forgetting here is that is the key role of employers and thats what were seeing more more more more of our clients are calling for specific advice really for for travel guidance because we know for a start just how disruptive this has been this has been the most disruptive crisis that weve certainly been involved with for many years and the 2nd thing is providing support to employees in the field you know in terms of very rapid access to information Accurate Information emotional support and guidance on what to do what do we do if we have a case in the workplace what do we do if somebody is quarantined as a lot of work going on in multiple companies now on on those issues and many others ok so the right button paul let me come to you then just touching on some of what he was saying there about the response and the handling of this Going Forward particularly as more and more infections come up which is which is what is expected to happen how can you prepare for the worst Case Scenario without making the panic worse. You know ok so when you if you the problem with relying on medical experts at this point is is the uncertainty they dont know so i think its a question of of alleviating the fears from a higher leadership we as a as a population elected our leaders we elected them we put trust in them at this point we the society it converts us into almost like children where we look at parents to guide us in this situation so i think it really stems from the leaders of all countries and its about formulating a solid and convincing action plan or what are so if you go to the. Website there is an action but its a 30 page document lets simplify it lets put out the message thats calm people down and lets tell them that this is what were doing which is how were preparing now this is our our our our plan b. Just in case it gets any worse its about simplifying the message about so simple planning that calming fears. How important is it in terms of the he said that a recession is probably a foregone conclusion but what can governments policymakers still at this point. At apps mitigate the economic damage from this. As a 3rd of the way we are heading towards a recession and it doesnt really matter whether the panic is justified or not if people stop going to work and people stop spending then a recession ensues i think governments 1st need to be a much more proactive in terms of actually tackling. The health of urgency but on a more direct economic front. Not rely so much on Monetary Policy which is not effective but prepare the targeted fiscal bushes which are needed. And provide reassurance that you know if companies or indeed individuals are going to go through difficult times that they will step in so for example you know if you are self employed you might not benefit from sick pay what are you going to do you know for example if you deliver food lots of people do that now in advanced economies and you feel a bit ill are you going to stay at home maybe not and it which case youd be spreading the disease you need to provide reassurance i think the really big challenge is that up until now this been mostly an advanced economy disease if it starts spreading extensively in developing countries they lack the capacity and indeed the funds to do much about this and i think that is very worrying indeed right so yes obviously is concerned about how Health Care Systems in developing countries which are already dealing with a number of problems and challenges are likely to cause. Weve spoken a great deal in this program about the long Term Economic social political damaging consequences of Something Like this but can i perhaps get a final thought from each of you on something positive that could in night from this in terms of solidarity resilience antony 1st yes i think were seeing evidence of that right now actually there are a number of societies that have come together. And successfully we mentioned a couple of them today and i think they have bene to benefited from that as a society and we often do see that within a demick as we saw that during the big flu pandemic of 1918 but the the most important benefit our would see is the the progress that the Scientific Community has made since the lessons of sars in 2002 there is now ready sharing of information data is shared between journals it is shared immediately there is no none of those blockages that we used to have in the past which means that whenever there is a New Discovery it is immediately available open access for everybody said but im told that me get your thoughts on that something unexpected surprising positive that could possibly emerge from the crisis the world is facing now its you know it is for people to learn to fly incredible sources of information so all those things about what employers cannot do its all posted publicly anyone can read it its on the government website its on the job you eat your website you go to the e. C. B. See the c. D. C. Its an understanding we just search for these credible sources of information and not to believe all the hype that facebook is and twitter is sharing ok rather look theres more its about understanding whats right whats wrong and learn from that game or. Philip but i think that this disease appears to be a particular contagious but not particularly variant and with luck it will leave us better prepared for what people really fear which is a disease which is both contagious and variance with with luck it will help us save lives in future thank you very much sharon appreciate getting your thoughts i want to thank our guests philip gravel less an economist dr anthony rahn sure and also we have joining us from wales over skype thank you very much but and paul. Thank you as well for watching you can see the program of course and again any time by visiting our website al jazeera dot com and then for further discussion as always Facebook Facebook pages well thats a facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story and then of course you can also join the conversation on twitter handle a. J. Inside story for me Maryanne Demasi and the team here in london and in doha by for now. From aljazeera as london Broadcast Center to special guests in conversation the state the american state steps in and save compass unprompted uninterrupted people think that racism is having personal vitriol towards black people and theres no understanding of what is to make racism is intimately reflecting on the issues of our time and i realized i was working for something i was evil and i had been a part of the creating at studio b. Unscripted coming soon on i was there. I was raised in france. These are my grandparents. These are my parents and this is mean. 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But there are many clark and how the top stories here on out 0 and a quarter of its needs population is being put under lockdown so government tries to stop the corona virus the region of lombardy home to 10000000. 00 is now in quarantine 11 nearby provinces are also affected so negiah has moved from month so far initially youve got more than a quarter of the population effectively on the lockdown that includes the the economic hub of milan also venice as well and other provinces including madina pomery mini party with rabies all cities which really have high population clusters there which are no
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