Transcripts For ALJAZ Mohammad Shtayyeh 20240713

How does the inner. City. Find jane space in munich where World Leaders gathered for the 56. 00 security conference among them the palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Shtayyeh u. S. President donald trump describes his middle east plan as the deal of the century the palestinians call the map of territory theyve been offered swiss cheese rather than a solution for a sovereign palestinian state so what now will explore all of this as the palestinian Prime Minister Mohammed Stier talks to our. Mohammed stier palestinian Prime Minister thank you for talking to aljazeera you know where im going to start im going to start with the trump plan what the president of the u. S. Called the deal of the century he talked about it 1st 3 years ago and ive been speaking to diplomats and to prominent palestinians they all told me they thought it probably was never going to see the light of day. But did can i ask you what your thoughts were and your feelings when you saw that document for the 1st time well. It was really an insult for everybody where this sort of very long fight for freedom and independence and a sub. On the borders of success which we want to as a big compromise so that this sort of west bank about that was only 6000. 6000 kilometer square out of was brazil to be shrinking youll get a free in where that does not give us more than 11 percent of what by design used to be so the blonde has been designed in a way language and decks. Is 100 israeli proposals even the language that is used we have here a bid from israeli negotiators dori gold and the director general of the Israeli Ministry of foreign of was on hard saying that he was bought into the plan he advised them on language and some song so the plan or what they call the proposal i think it did really erode every possibility for peace between palestinians and israelis he just had to listen to Prime Minister netanyahu in the white house he was thanking everyone he seemed absolutely delighted this is just what the right wing in israel of always wanted and if you look at any other plan every other plan since 1988 this gives the palestinians less territory than any of them well the question is why did nothing accept the plan a product nobody has claimed to have seen the plan if netanyahu was not a coauthor of the land then he could have said well give us the time to study it now then immediately accepted without and it is their version of the plan because it is his plan secondly or the american proposals really was trying to redesign the whole of the terms of reference for the Peace Process in accordance with american understanding of the conflict there is no way that im at a comparable result canterburys International Law there is no way that an american proposal ganda blaise United Nations resolutions since the early days of the conflict the proposals after proposals they have failed really to come up to a solution because of this sort of us bias of the United States the lot of israel which is something they dont deny because its what i had united this is broward to say that we are instructed you to lions with israel and we care about israels. You to be about israels future about about so if you have a party that is supposed to be a 3rd party that is supposed to be an honest broker that is supposed to be an object of many years and then 100 percent informed by us they can measures that is not the proposal they should that they bought that has to do with the United States was implemented even before the proposal was launched that accession of jerusalem the movement of the embassy freezing Financial Aid to another one to the by the scene or one of the all these unilateral measures that have been taken by United States it does show that the strategy for the americans was to fully and totally both the by the scene and back so the war squeeze them that defeat them so they surrender so they accept President Trump is someone who sees many things in money terms one of the main things the administration is pointing out is that youre going to get a lot of money they say an economic boost of 50000000000. 00 thats a huge figure not really. 35000000000 of these supposed to be loans and the rest of it is grants on conditional bases and so on look this is sort of wrong to deal with the palestinians that palestinians are ready to trade politics for money and he is wrong by the seniors have learned one thing from where jesus christ was born in bethlehem its not with bread ones live only by the seen as they have their dignity and freedom which is more important than a loaf of bread so to try to buy jerusalem for money or under a 3rd of some assistance or a shrinking but is seen in geography or subordinate the or the right of return to refugees or all of these sort of things and return of the a bunch of dollars this is not what the palestinians are looking for a stable it brings money and money does not. Bring stability lets compare this plan with what was the International Consensus since the oslo accords let me quote the un the vision of 2 States Israel and palestine living side by side in peace and security on the basis of the pre 1967 lines with jerusalem as the capital of by the states lets take those things one by one 1st a palestinian state is this a viable state you can offer us not 1st of all there is no offer for it but as he knows that and the proposal there is an interstate and that entity is not certain and that is indeed the is not contiguous and that indeed the it does shut out of the whole palestinian into zones of of control of that is not connected and youre going to live in where years of those of our present he said it was a swiss cheese it is not it is this was jews where we are the horrors of this was jesus taught that it is connected from each other so that is not as the 2nd the american speaks about but is seen as have to qualify for about state after 40 years while it does given up any our immediate action today it does give us 40 years took what he 5 for that sort of entity and it did good for conditions for of that indeed to materialize one that we recognize is that i as a jewish state 2nd we demilitarize gaza and would draw from hamas and so on and thirdly we have to be good guys the question is who is going to see with their way out of wood or bad that israelis and the worst part of the story were fully and daughterly the proposal gives all of your was an end to the israelis and not only that it does take the whole issue of refugees out of the body going to sort of the problem if you dont handle the issue of refugees where there are 7000000. 00 palestinians living and if you do comes and their support if you dont. That it will be at is us that last point i want to mention to you on that but its dinners in that region have become is their billions is their billing factor look no but as the man is a member of isis noble is seen as a member of al qaeda nobodys seen as a member of any terrorist organization and so on and that is very important for the International Community to understand that by listing the us to be a stabling factor in the region let me pick up some of the points youve raised there the proposed capital for this palestinian state they say it will be a palestinian state they talk of something called eastern jerusalem this seems to be the other side of the wall that israel built so its not really East Jerusalem its east of jerusalem is that your understanding its worse than that you see that here is about language they try to fool some listeners to say that with its capital in jerusalem any in of some naive politician might understand that own proposal is giving but if he has to have a capital in jerusalem for us the issue is not about the injuries on him for us the issue is that you should resign him is that that not not abu dis which is that what theyre offering you there is a big difference between saying with the euro zone as its capital or with its capital in jerusalem because there was a name has 2 sides there is the city of jerusalem which is only 6 square kilometers which is the old city and the holy bhasin and that is where we consider East Jerusalem is the city or we sure as the name and then you have the governor mitt of jerusalem which includes the villages around the city of jerusalem so when he said its got to tell in eastern jerusalem is that if it into one of the little tiny villages which is outside the ward city the 6 kilometers over there was an m. Is an. Has been expanded by is that i am to become 65 kilometers and what the americans are proposing that this but is seen in the capital will be even outside the ward bottle of jerusalem which is in one and the worst bought or so is when they said you can choose anywhere and put it puts you know you name any city or any village and you go to this is that accords this is totally stupid naive proposal that does not fool anybody but as the as our body that for us East Jerusalem is the city of jerusalem let me ask you about another of those issues you raised which is the refugees refugees who fled in the wars in 1967 who went to lebanon to syria to jordan there is no right of return in this plan on offer that i assume makes this a regional problem it is because when you are speaking i want rehabilitation oh but as you know refugees in lebanon and syria and jordan and other bases its not only about demography its its again these palestinians who have been that are with the keys and their hands of the houses that they have been pushed out over since 948 they have these skis as a symbol of the hope that they will return home or there will be a just solution for their cause when this solution the american are proposing is that you have a vision over of you g. s and the host countries 1st of all the host countries dont accept 2nd that if you dont accept and thirdly we dont accept their want just to push the problem away from their borders keep it a lebanese problem create a syrian problem create a jordanian problem which we dont accept and without his why they couldnt with all the pressure they exerted on jordan which i said you would him and legally bennys and the syrians and all nobody has accepted this american proposal it is a be that if you g. s because the whole i. Of refugees is that they should there has to be a just solution and jordan has bought into it lieberman has bought into it syria has bought into it egypt is bought to do it that is where the bodies tend to produce are and so therefore just simply to say as if you are of solving the territorial problem with a look at but is seen as in the west bank and gaza this does not sort of the but is seen and problem when the plan was unveiled in the white house 2 leaders came from the middle east the problem was they were both israelis now mr jarrott cushion of the president s son in law who did the negotiations says thats your fault because you didnt take part in the negotiations he now says as you mentioned you have for years that you could start negotiations with him and he says and these are his far from diplomatic words if they dont then theyre going to screw up another opportunity like theyve screwed up every opportunity that theyve ever had in their existence whats your reaction while that look this sort of slogan you know that somebody is the means never missed an abortion or to thomas an abortion if this is that money was made by about you ban in 169 yes and i dont buy that because we seized every a portrait we were we did a huge compromise to accept the fact that we were bought out of the jordanian bill a geisha in in 1991 in the madrid conference we have accepted to negotiate with israel and conditionally we negotiated with israel even when they did not freeze jewish supplements we negotiated with the president with president graham we negotiated with president obama we negotiated with president bush the son we negotiated with president bush the father with a client on we have negotiated with every american president when whatever out of their boards and we have negotiated with this hack shammy are words that are being over the net and yes so why dont we when we negotiated with our brizard and conducted for meetings with the. Um and then of the moment where tom has taken unilateral measures that did jump with di is the whole issue of final the stuff of negotiations what did the americans do even before launching that the the proposal they did freeze money for the n r one which is totally eliminating the issue of refugees they move the embassy from tel aviv to jerusalem and he said that jerusalem is that theyre not the capital of the jewish people what you mean is to us that the americans are totally their chick thing the Palestinian Christian and muslim not the of about euro zone am and allowing a jewish domination or jewish not of the of domination about euro sentiment about all of palestine thats not acceptable to us as christian and muslim palestinians that we are then begin as people of that country colonize ation claim should not be justified on historical bases or on and it isnt just bases their issue is political is not not a is not religious and that is where we stand solid on the saudi issues what are you going to do when the next thing the trumpet ministration does and we know what its going to do it signaled already theyre not going to wait the 4 year period theyve given you to come to negotiations to annex those settlements some around netanyahu telling him to do it right now itll probably happen as soon as the israeli election is over maybe somebody is seen in the future will stand up to thank him for what hes doing you know why because what the trump is doing he is endangering the security of the state to israel israel will not any more be a democracy which is not anyhow now and has not been before and it will not be in the future and this will not be jewish because look at the demography today if the ambit is missing the border turn at the end here is what the israelis are missing the border trying to be the most important. That the americans and they said it would have messed was that obese initiative which called for normalization of relations with israel and return of israeli withdrawal from all arab territories that has been occupied in 6 or 7 now that look at the demographic dynamic for the 1st time in history since 1948 until today by less the unions are more or less the me and muslims and christians more by 200000 people compared to israeli jews in historical palestine between dover jordan and Mediterranean Sea what does this mean it means that israel is a slipping into a one state reality it means that israel will never be jewish never to be democratic it means that we are going into the south african a zation of the by the scene in question well the result is that i and becomes 100 percent about it by the state by de jure and by de facto some people are saying you should help it on its way you know the argument that the best thing for you to do now would be to dissolve the Palestinian Authority put yourself under israeli control effectively become one state and legally become the majority in that state is that an option no sir its not an option because for us the issue is not about distorting the but as you know thought of either but as usual thought is not a gift by anybody or from anybody but a sinner with honesty is the result is an outcome of the sacrifices of the by this thing and people what we should do is we should move the thought out there from it being an interim or too many frustration over the authority to become a state under occupation that is where we should take the things for what one secondly the International Community which is a god unto of International Law should realize that what the american proposal is and confrontation with International Law and that is why by the way but as event has no partners whatsoever. He has no partners in europe he has no partners in the arab countries he has no bar owners and by this time 107 congressman and i mean i salute them who signed a letter to reject and synagogues as well we have had meetings with these people who didnt accept at all who really think that this american brought bohrs a number of boards and is in total confrontation with International Legitimacy with International Law with United Nations resolutions or within the american political arena there is a huge split when it comes with his they didnt accept it you talk a lot about the International Community and International Law and its clear that the geneva conventions the Security Council resolution there on your side were now how do you take action where is your redress in the International System because as far as i can see it there are only 2 routes one is the u. N. The u. N. Security council and of course of their israel has its trump card the u. S. Which will use its veto if you take any action you have the General Assembly where you can win a symbolic victory but it has no power on the other option is the International Criminal court its been dragging its feet now its going to launch an investigation into the situation with regard to settlements but also with regard to the violence in gaza but it is asked it is judges whether its actually has jurisdiction and there are some European Countries who are taking israels side on this not the court the court in a general did not say. That we dont have jurisdiction did not question then she didnt she didnt say that we have jurisdiction and if any body claims the abos it believes come pouring one and they have come forward and they did it but also there are some people who come forward and they are on the other side there are so many countries and organizations and loaf and individuals who come to say that there is a court of jurisdiction on there but as the interpreter saw there is an argument that some companies have sent a letter to say you know theres some bad and so on but the court itself it does state explicitly that there is a 3rd authority in the jurisdiction of the court on the but is the territory theres another part of the International System that looks like it has been dragging its feet until recently and thats the high commissioner for human rights she was asked by the Human Rights Council back in 2016 to come up with a database of all the companies that are doing business in the settlements 100 really finally shes come out with that database and there are Big International companies on it a Motorola Solutions General Mills b. And b. Expedia amongst others so youve got that list of companies that are breaking International Law what are you going to do with it doc. Its good to you as this because that tells you all that there is complementarity when it comes to breaking International Law whether what the council of human eyes has said or that of the General Assembly or what has said and this is the Council Resolution 2334 which has been boss that does. Best consider that or 7 months out illegitimate illegal alien and therefore the whole International Law United Nations resolution out of complimentary in full support with but as the number by its nobody american president has no right to dictate International Law by himself there isnt an. National order and there is International Law that they have to respect these companies we ask them to immediately close their brain misses on the bus the number 31 second they have to pay compensation on taxes via income tax and so on of all what they have done and we thought of the room for moving the premises from the settlements by the t. N. C. It is if they wish to do so but this is a criminal act we have seen from the jewish experience what the jews have asked for compensation the combat is who were involved in the holocaust and so on and so forth there is a historical president where these companies have been taken to court if they dont act immediately according to the International Law we will take them to court as well. Given all of the challenges that you are facing there are many that say the palestinians could be more effective if they change their leadership and if they were unified let me ask you about those 2 things 1st the division fatah hamas between gaza and the west bank is that being talked about so many times any progress towards unity yes our president has actually come up with in his last speech on the 26th of september 2019 to the General Assembly where he brought bohrs door he not divide and our National Community that he is calling for elections we did call for elections how mass has accepted door come to be bought out of that election old palestinian factions have accepted the idea that we should go to elections we have signed with hamas for different better agreements one in doha 2 in cairo and one in gaza unfortunately none of these agreements was ever implemented so the only other way is to go back to the people asked of me but as you know what do you want ok what do you use to head the Election Commission of palestine and when will there be elections tell me we have actually brought borst this. We have around this issue of gaza hamas which was an impediment there is now another of him by them and which has to do with the port in mobile as seen as in East Jerusalem where we need the israeli approval for allowing them to vote and for allowing us to have a building stations in the city over jerusalem is that ill until now did not say no but israel also did not say yes and therefore maybe there is there is they dont want our elections to overlap with their elections so the moment they say it is finished their own elections we will come back to them again and ask for elections to be facilitated ministers on him and in those elections will there be a new palestinian leadership your president has been involved in the struggle for a very long time but hes 84 years old he was elected in 2005 for a 4 year term hes now done 15 years is it time for new more vibrant leadership and would you consider standing the matter kind of tried to redesign or design but a Senior Leadership in accordance with their bland if we accept the plan we are good boys if we reject the plan we are bad boys that is not what International Border is about well its the indians we have elected our president this president did not land in about a short over our shoulders he was an elected president for us everybody because everybody everybody got faction has its own right to choose who go to prison whether of the president ial level or at the bottom of the palestinian leadership which i am do we have the chairman of the part of the or the of the movement is the president that bias and then he we have ordered the trust in him to be a representing by december issue is not about age the issue is about give ability and hes got a couple. Palestinian Prime Minister thank you for talking to al jazeera my pleasure thank you wolf and. From fossil fuels to modern day renewable as societies develop the energy demands increase requiring Innovative Solutions to meet such tomorrows as a global power developed into the Basement Company nebraska power is uniquely positioned to deliver against these developments we provide Business Growth promote Socio Economic benefits and provide innovative safe and environmentally sound Energy Solutions for future generation the brush Pioneering Future Energy aljazeera goods beneath the waves with a team of women determined to save the dolphins we all share the same is going to be Something Like that i made using a variety of scientific techniques to try to study their behavior we can monitor that for their. Behavior were able to know how theyre adapting to their new environment women make science dolphin sanctuary on aljazeera. Context of the significant indepth storytelling around the biggest issues we have to do usually do it again. This is aljazeera. Fully back to go this is the news hour live from our Global Headquarters in doha coming up in the next 60 minutes turkey warns of more attacks against Syrian Government forces if they dont reverse their advances in it but syria says it will confront turkish aggression. Achiles droughns off the greek island of last falls after a refugee boats crossing from turkey capsizes also this hour hoping to end a political stalemate israelis hold in a bottom entry election for the 3rd time in