Retaliates not the syrian as strikes killed dozens of its soldiers Syrian Government positions have been attacked but theres also a threat from ankara to renege on a deal with the e. U. Brand let refugees cross into europe with this trigger another humanitarian crisis this is inside story. However and im come all santamaria it is the biggest single day loss of turkish soldiers in syrias civil war 33 of them killed on thursday by government airstrikes in which of course we know is the last rebel held province in the country and turkeys retaliation it has been swift its military says its attacked more than 200 Syrian Army Positions and some turkish politicians are even calling for a ground offensive but theyve been some diplomatic moves to president reject typer one called Russias Vladimir Putin to discuss the deal they had signed to coordinate an atelier ban to prevent the fighting from miscue lazing while nato which turkey is a member has pledged further support. Condemn the continued indiscriminate storks by the Syrian Regime under the shah in provence todays meeting is a clear sign the dotted with turkey turkey is a valued nato ally and turkey. Most affected by the terrible conflict in syria. Which has suffered the most terrorist attacks and we chose millions of refugees and that point that un stoltenberg makes about refugees could be crucial because while turkey deals with syria to the south it also appears to be putting pressure on europe to the north remember there are millions of Syrian Refugees in turkey many of whom have always wanted to travel on into europe and ankara is now saying it wont necessarily stop them if that happens on a full scale it would go against the deal that turkey signed with the e. U. Back in 2016 syrians in turkey are in fact already making their way to the greek border and greece is reportedly tightening its sea and land crossings in response. So lets talk all about this and introduce you to todays panel starting on skype from a stone but weve got who is the managing editor of the daily sabah english language newspaper in amman wilf dinnick spokesman on syria for the humanitarian Aid Organization mercy call and in london fadi had khuda consulting fellow in the Europe Program at the International Think tank Chatham House gentlemen thank you for your time i think weve got 2 separate things to talk about one is this latest military action the death of turkish soldiers and then the wider issue of refugees methhead ill start with you 50 in fact turkish soldiers killed just since february in addition to this attack look casualties in war they are inevitable but mass deaths of soldiers are the types of things are they not which can really escalate her war it can it can an army can really spring into action almost in defense of its own that well it is it is you know it is we can consider that to be. You know part of being in a war but tookie is not this is eerily. You know in a war against assad regime in syria it hasnt been the reason why it has been in india for example is part of a deal that was established. Through the backers of the assad regime iran and russia and tokyo was there for humanitarian concerns with regards to lips of millions and they had established yes collation zone and thats why there were 12 observation posts by the Turkish Military so if turkey was in a full out war against the assad regime and you know there was a ground offensive and the airstrikes were part of that and then you took us troops for fall and then i think we could be saying yes this is part of the war but at this point if there are the deal is there such a deal is there and it and the fact that there is a humanitarian concern with regards to millions being displaced and moving towards turkish borders. It makes these incidents different than a full out war one turkish soldier being killed by the assad regime is to many in fact one civilian killed by the assad regime or the war in syria for that sense is too many so i think it would rather than questioning or is just simply putting that these are part of the war and whether this should push turkey for a full ground offensive i think we should maybe question and discuss why assad is doing this despite the soon minutes here and concerns despite the fact that there is a sochi agreement to deal in place and its still targeting turkish troops and i tell you some tell you that i mean im if i take your point about that the nature of the war that it is maybe not a classic 2 sides fighting against each other war but still as long as there are a syrian and russian government and strikes turkey is going to be there as part of the whole operation as you say it is going to be drawn into it and really even even with such ian paice theres still no end in sight to any of this. In fact you know all the coordinations are shared by the russian counterparts so it you know its not like turkey is there and arbitrarily these attacks are being carried out and turkish locations are not to do the location of turkish troops are not known and then these casualties appen you know the coordination and information sharing is taking place between 2 again russia and develop its own that is that worse then so is it isnt that what this if that if the if the russians know the coordinates and 33. 00 took our soldiers are still dying isnt that worth that of course if course it is worse and thats why there is a huge crisis between turkey and russia despite the fact that these 2 countries do 2 countries have been strategically you know they have been hailed as a you know the new allies in the region but you know we turkey said that defense minister said all the information was shared with the russians and despite that she information sharing this took place in the previous incident when it happened and the same thing had taken place at this at that time too you know russia denied that there was no information but turkey said minute by minute that they had shared this information and we should also underline that you know most single bird can fly on the sky in syria without knowledge of russian authorities officials you know so of course i dont think the turkish side by is into that discourse so we didnt know that there were to troops there but it is something that these 2 countries i mean the officials in moscow and on car need to. Overcut over them to find a diplomatic solution if there is one within it there are turkish soldiers in the region but theres also a lot of syrians what are the latest sort of numbers of people i made the point that since the start of february x. Number of soldiers have been killed what about the number of people whove had to. Move flee or who have been killed as well. Well the thats the reason theyre calling this one of the worst humanitarian crisis in the 21st century i mean that almost doesnt do it justice i just got off the phone with some of our team members in it live and the stories that were hearing a really hot you know theyre hard to take i think even for these. These n. G. O. S workers who we have on the ground even theyre seeing stuff that they just they couldnt imagine and were now what almost 10 years into this conflict and were still facing these kind of these kind of issues with yeah close to a 1000000 people now displaced out of it live. I should point out though here that you know were seeing a lot of media stories about the displacement and this huge amount of people but i think we have to remember a couple of things about this this one event or whats happening now and that the fact is these people have been displaced many many times and theyre they fled to it live because they had to they were fleeing from other places and now theres kind of no more it live to go to theres no more place to flee to their space is getting smaller and smaller so you think about 80900000 people and theyve been displaced many many times and the problem with that is that these arent people whove you know have money or they have circumstances where they have things that they can take with them and theyre often fleeing with just the clothes on their back one of the aid workers one of our partners on the ground was telling me people are now asking for premade food so youre seeing a level of degradation going on where we used to give people a kit so they could make food clean water and now they maybe dont have enough flour they dont have the nuts stuff to actually make the food themselves were also hearing about people not having enough fuel enough money or to pay for fuel for their little portable heaters and so when you hear all this politics and all the talking i think we have to remember not just the scale of the amount of people but the group here what theyre facing in the dead. Of winter displaced many times with nowhere else to go it really is a crisis thats hard to target to comprehend just to build on what youve been saying though and have a little quick listen to this for you our guests and our audience a comment from the u. N. Humanitarian spokesperson on friday on the situation with refugees have a quick listen we now have 950000 displacement going on in absolutely horrifying conditions people have nothing and they have no place to go. So you know this is just. You know an increase upon an increase upon an increase and its really is tragic to see what is going on we of course joined the secretary general again and his call for an immediate cease fire that is really what is needed to make a difference for these hundreds of thousands of very Vulnerable People well for a quick comment from you before i move on to friday all those hundreds of thousands millions of refugees the assumption. Or the general discussion is that they all want to go to europe is that still the case i mean i suspect a lot of them would like to go home but from what youve described certainly if it is actually i mean theyd be nothing to go home to would kill i think you know what were hearing from a lot of people has that theyre really living for the next day they dont know if the camps theyre going to be and will theyre going to get caught in the crossfire or the violence so you know sort of these grand plans its just really not in their in their scope of thinking right now because theyre really thinking about a can i keep my family warm how many to get a tent i mean were hearing a lot of people who are sleeping in the open who are sleeping under all of trees the camps are full of mud and you know let me just give you one small example about our operations so we deliver water fresh water to dozens of camps all in that part of syria and because of the indiscriminate violence we dont know really where the next shells are going to land or in the next fighting is going to happen sometimes we cant access those camps just last week again we visit dozens of camps and we could only we can only visit 3 our team members couldnt even get there so you can imagine we cant even deliver clean water to some of these people or to the majority these people on on some weeks so again i understand that people want to know what what will these refugees do i dont think they know i think they dont even know whats going to happen next and again theyre just looking for a meal theyre looking for a warm place and i think we have to remember the crisis that theyre in it really is a result of this violence and so you know all parties you know are calling for a cessation release all the n. G. O. S and people who are concerned about the situation or calling for secession of violence so they can figure out how to reach these people we need to access them these people have the right to flee to safety and they have a right to access us so they can get shelter food and some safety for their families 30 hooker lets bring you into the conversation from london now we have this notion once again a threat which turkey has made many times lets not forget about opening the borders and allowing people for is did europe maybe not take this threat seriously enough that it would actually happen one day. Europe has failed to intervene sufficiently in the syrian quagmire to bring about a Peace Process in that country europe reduced the entire syrian issue down to the surge of syrian and not syrian migrants from turkey and via the med it mediterranean into into mainland europe and that was a strategic error on europes part only by a providing a resolution a regional solution to a syrian quagmire and only then can there be a some kind of resettlement of Syrian Refugees back to syria and lets not forget there are also substantial numbers of Syrian Refugees not only in turkey. But the proportion can even more so in lebanon and jordan and we can see the economy in lebanon for example isnt much worse position than turkey is so but nobody talks about the Syrian Refugees in lebanon and they do not get sufficient even support Financial Support for that it only becomes an issue when Syrian Refugees cross the cross the border via turkey and the Mediterranean Sea into europe also lets bring up that point ill come back to you in a 2nd the one thing which europe has done is signed a deal with turkey that was back in 2016 of course you remember back then wave of refugees and migrants and syria and other countries as fatties pointed out. Turkey agreed with the e. U. To impose stronger controls in return the e. U. Pledged 6600000000. 00 in aid to turkey to host the Syrian Refugees but now we have the situation turkey coming under more pressure in the war d there are fears that will lift its border controls its talking about doing that and allowing many to try that european route turkey is already home to lets point out 3700000. 00 Syrian Refugees so fatty what happens if the and i dont like using this phrase it gets sonja if the gates of being opened. But what what potentially happens from here with these millions of people. I think what will happen if that youll see another large numbers of undocumented syrian migrants flowing across the border and via the Mediterranean Sea on the greek islands which are already do not have any much space to accommodate new numbers however i think that this time around europe is much better prepared than they were in 2015 i think they theyve put their erected some fences put somebody years to prevent the flow of syrian migrants into mainland europe also all of this is connected to the large to the fueling of the popularity of many of the right wing populist anti immigrant parties across europe such as for example the f d in germany which has been eating support from the ruling Christian Democratic Party methot in istanbul fadi makes the point that europe hasnt done enough or maybe europe doesnt even have a really strong strategy when it comes to to refugees i guess 1st of all do you agree with that and 2nd is it time then that europe does step up and do something and what could it. Well i think we should take a step back and you know rather than just analyzing this through the most recent wave i think we should look at how European Union or nato or in fact or turkeys western allies have done with regards to this Syrian Civil War as a whole i mean if we look at north east for example the u. S. Is supporting a terrorist group that targets directly turkey. Why p. G. And you know that which is an offshoot of the p. K. K. If you look at italy for example right now assad is trying to do some democratic demographic changes by indiscriminately for targeting women and children all the civilians who are who are who are like the previous speaker said have been already displaced from other parts of syria and now these are all moving towards turkey which is the border the south if so its more of European Union although officially took is not part of European Union but it is the border if euro 22. 00 failed states iraq and syria and it is also the south eastern border of nato. And also the you know nato is border with russia basically so now all these all throughout the past 10 years nothing has happened you know substantially day havent taken any concrete steps to eliminate one you know that to source of the problem in syria to to eliminate any of the security threats posed to chip turkey and 3 to do to you know they havent taken any concrete measures rather than other than some Financial Supports which was also timely provided to to eliminate him in a tyrian concerns that have been a huge burden on turkeys social political and economic aspects in turkey so how the way i mean this i think reading the been treating the symptoms not the cause and now its they havent even they havent even been treat treating the symptoms and its been a big. To me a bandaid solution because aside from the social political aspects and burden of the refugees in turkey lebanon and other other countries theres also the security aspect that we shouldnt forget you know to give now letting and other 1000000 of refugees is not just socially or konami clee will be a burden or politically on the turkish government but its also a security issue that i think many of the European Countries fail to understand when they are i mean i think it was yesterday i saw it on one of the one of the reports that denmark is going to allow you know a handful of refugees i mean it is just funny you know if we look at it from that how much of a enormous issue this humanitarian aspect of syrias civil war is and how much little European Union or other western countries have done to 1st tackle it at its roots or 2 to find solution to consequent rise wilf dinnick let me bring you back and i do you sort of noted i think when i when i mentioned that that sort of slightly contentious phrase of well will open the gates and middle east people because really what it can end up being is. Refuse almost being used well thats what it sort of almost sounds like to me that theyve been used with threaten to unleash all this wave of people upon you when actually look at what theyve come from look at what theyve had to flee. And i think that the real frustration here is that all this that all this talk about the buy by people of the geopolitics you know we have to cope back to and remember whats going on here where is the International Community why we did why dont we have a cessation of violence of violence and fighting because youre looking at just after 10 years or almost 10 years a decade you have close to a 1000000 people mostly women and children who dont have enough shelter who dont have enough food who have nothing to do with this fight they have nothing to do with it and theyre caught in the crossfire and it doesnt seem to dawn on anybody that this is the priority this has to be addressed 1st so we have to have access to those people we have to be able to get them the things that they need the critical humanitarian assistance and they have to be able to access us and they have to be able to be free to escape the violence and thats just not happening right now so i understand all the talk about geopolitics and and you know the threats etc but lets go back to the core issue here and thats almost a 1000000 people who need food who need shelter and who need warmth who have nothing to do with negotiations but theyre not in the back rooms theyre not behind closed doors they are suffering and its not their fault so we have to address these issues and people have to speak up the humanitarian community has been calling for this for so long and the International Community doesnt seem to be responding so you know when i talk to my colleagues who are on the ground in syria you know you ask them well are you upset that the International Community isnt doing anything after 9 years they just kind of shrug their shoulders and thats a really upsetting thing to hear you know again we have about 400 people working across syria at mercy corps working tirelessly often risking their lives to help these people and it just seems like theyre getting very little Political Support outside of this world they really feel like theyre in. In a bubble so while they are there are they just hating the saying id like top sorry i just wanna bring in fact because i am conscious of the time as well and also youngsters fadi the fact that what method will have just been saying everything that talked about the base problems in syria the problems which the refugees now have in syria and in turkey and all of this all of it on a political little adds up to pressure what is this doing to the e. U. Turkey relationship especially if turkey is saying well we might just allow who if we want to carry on through to europe. The e. U. Turkey relationship actually has been more a bund for quite a while europe is refusing for example to open talks to upgrade economic relations with turkey europe the European Union has reduced the syrian conflict down to the refugee to handling the refugee preventing refugee Syrian Refugees from crossing into main into mainland into mainland europe so the relationship has been deteriorating between turkey and the e. U. And also between turkey and individual European Countries such as germany france austria belgium and and many other European Countries so well a final thought from you then what does all that main weight is that actually all the people that will please describe what does that mean for them and i just stuck in limbo for well we just dont know. I think that they will continue to be stuck in limbo i doubt that there will be a regional solution to stabilize the situation in syria and to bring about the resettlement of these of the of the Syrian Refugees so i think were going to see this very sad situation humanitarian catastrophe linger for much longer. Its extraordinary isnt it 9 years this has been going on and were still having these sorts of discussions met chick from the. In istanbul wilf dinnick is from o. C. Call in amman jordan and you just heard fadi coeur there from Chatham House in london gentlemen thank you so much we do appreciate it and to you at home or wherever youre watching this on whatever medium thanks for joining us we are online in the shows section at aljazeera dot com thats if you want to catch up with this or any of our previous editions you can also join the social discussions were at facebook dot com forward slash a. J. Inside story were on twitter as well at a. J. Inside story and im a. J. 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