the senate will convene as a court of impeachment. donald trump becomes only the ferret u.s. president to face trial in the senate ballots with a republican controlled upper house he's most likely to get off the charges of abuse of power and obstructing congress so what's really the point of this impeachment trial this is inside story. hello and welcome to the program on martin dennis and historic trond of the u.s. president has got under way in the senate donald trump is accused of abusing power by pressuring ukraine to investigate his political rival and then trying to block the inquiry into the matter the president's calling the whole affair a hoax senate has spent the 1st day arguing over the rules of the trial trumps republican policy blocked every attempt by the democrats to present new evidence and witnesses at the end of the trial 2 thirds of senators house around 67 need to approve at least one of the articles to remove the president from office but it seems unlikely is the republicans hold a majority here's how the 2 sides are preparing for battle he wanted to coerce ukraine into these sham investigations of his opponent that he was terrified would beat him in the next election that's what this is about you want to say that's ok their brief says that's ok a present has a right to do it on article 2 we are the president you can do whatever he wants you want to say that's ok then you got to say that every future president can come into office and they can do the same thing are we prepared to say that well that's why we're here. they're not here to steal one election they're here to steal bulletins it's buried in the small print of their ridiculous articles of impeachment they want to remove the president truck from the ballot they will tell you that they don't have the guts to say it directly but that's exactly what they're here to do. all right let's introduce panel now in washington d.c. we have michael isikoff he's chief investigative correspondent at yahoo news and interestingly he's one of the reporters who helped break the monica lewinsky story in the 1990 s. in palm beach in florida we have robert bennett who served as a personal attorney for president bill clinton during the paula jones case it also in washington d.c. we have paris stand he's a republican strategist and member of the advisory board of donald j. trump for president well welcome to you all paris let me start with you as a lifelong republican you tweeted that this entire impeachment is a joke this isn't about national security it's all politics. that's absolutely right i think the american people can see that this this entire process is not about the constitution it's about not about justice it's not about national security it's about the democrats in congress trying to subvert the will of the american people by them obstructing the will of the people through the election process and trying to get donald trump out of office through this impeachment process if it was so severe that if the case was so strong against him they would have had more articles of impeachment stronger articles of impeachment and speaker pelosi would have put them to the senate quicker but they did and she held it for political reasons and now in the end pietschmann trial we have adam shift have the nerve to talk about transparency and unfairness when and asking for for witnesses when all of those things were denied in the house side of this of this matter so it's all about politics the american people know it right and rub it coming to you said paris is to kill a thing some of the familiar republican. narratives with regard to this trial what do you think do you think that perhaps the democrats are using this for electoral gain and of course we have to remember there is an election later this year well i'm sure that there's some of that but i think it's a very extreme view to say this is all politics the articles of impeachment certainly set out. a troubling story of what mr trump did in the house of representatives to term and that was so serious it warranted impeaching him. i respect those who have the view that politics play the big part by a is just to stream to just say it was just politics chloride coming to you michael in washington what do you think in terms of this being a huge moment for the people of the united sates is is only the 3rd time of calls that and impeachment trial is got under way what does it mean for the people of america well it's a lot will depend on the outcome and also how the trial is over them at leap perceived there doesn't seem to be much doubt about the about the ultimate outcome it seems highly unlikely that 20 republican senators are going to jump ship and vote to convict donald trump but don't underestimate how significant this trial can be if it is not deemed to be credible if it it's not deemed too if it's perceived as a cover up then that's going to be very damaging for the president you know you do have a large segment of the him her can public the don't view it the way the president's political supporters to do find the conduct some of the conduct quite troubling and you have republican senators has mitt romney who have it indicated as much so i think we're going to have some va a very crucial votes next week on whether to call witnesses and i think how that plays out and none of us know at this point whether or for republicans will vote to call witnesses it looks like at least 3 are already there are so they're one of the democrats are one short from getting the magic number of for that can take this trial in a whole other direction with key witnesses such as john bolton them mick mulvaney being force the testified right coming to you paris mitch mcconnell his proudly declare that that he as leader at the senate majority leader of the senate is working in close coordination with the white house how on earth can that their full yield an independent fair inquiry into the behavior over the president given that all of the senate as of taken an oath to be impartial this a pace of be impartial juror has but then mines of already been made up look i think the issue of impartiality when it comes to political process and this is overblown you have at least 2 or 3 sitting senators that are actually running for president against donald j. trump and so no one is talking about their him impartiality about this and senator mitch mcconnell is not leading this impeachment trial there are house managers who are and many of which already before the president even became the president the very beginning talked about trying to impeach him so they're impartiality is also up for for a question this at the end of the day is reflective of how the american people feel about the alleged charges against the president is funny to me that their claim in this case is so strong when the president put out the entire transcript with the port with the president of ukraine saying he was not at all you are saying get me should give me what you write it wasn't exactly a transcript was it was a read and it was a version of what was said it wasn't exactly a transcript but please continue well i mean you can go to protest at the end of the day the american people are responding positively to the president he's having an upcoming rally in new jersey and i'm president 100000 people 100000 people have signed up to attend his rally during this whole impeachment process the president has signed historic and made historic trade deals with china with the united states canada mexico as well as important legislations here that he signed in this country and so the democrats know that this is not something that is that worthy of of impeachment and you someone mentioned senator mitt romney in these these 4 republicans that are on the fence they're not going to vote for impeachment the republicans are not going to this is not a bipartisan overwhelming support of something that went up to be a high crime or misdemeanor which is totally opposite of what happened with president bill clinton that was a high crime he was impeached for it and even lost his license for a way to have to pay a fine for. period of time for that for perjury all right roberts coming to you now you've actually represented as a lawyer you've represented a sitting president what's your assessment of the of the charges that have been brought to the senate and whether or not they approved or whether the president is acquitted what's your assessment of what it means the significance of these charges having been brought in the 1st place while i think it's very significant that the charges were brought. these are serious charges. me i think it will be very difficult to. to convict him in the senate because votes are going along party lines and you know most of the american people if the polls are believe. believe that. some action should be taken against the president. you know you'll have to wait and see what all the evidence is and how the vote actually goes down but i think it is most unlikely that. that he will be convicted of the charges because the republican. senate is going to stick together. and vote no and vote to quit but you never know once these things start new you never really know how they will turn out right and michael remind us then of the last impeachment 999 president clinton how damaged it was to that. you know he he survived it he was able to continue his presidency and had high public approval ratings so in that sense. the he was he fared quite well given that he was the 2nd president in the history of the country to be impeached but it did cast a cloud over his legacy there's no question about it and i was kind of struck when speaker pelosi on sunday kept making the point that donald trump has been impeached for life and that that would be a black mark that would forever hang over him well bill clinton was impeached for life as well but you know he continued to. speak at democratic conventions to thunderous applause and. continued his life so. it's hard to know how much this impeachment will hang over donald trump in the future a lot is going to depend as i said before on how the trial is perceived and if it is viewed and the democrats are truly really trying to make this point over and over again that if there's no witnesses and no documents that it will be a cover up and if that. if that point breaks through then you know the president will be damaged so paris coming to you then it all rests really doesn't it on the way the republicans handle this matter this matter of allowing witnesses for instance more evidence to give the impression all the free and fair trial because the perception of this being a fair exercise of the impeachment clause in the constitution is essential for donald trump it is going to go on and win another election later this year. give me a break this is not about the fairness of the republican party we didn't bring these charges this is about the prosecution this is how it works in the american system get that rep that bird republicans are ok and secure ssion again and went and the house of representatives and the forgive me in the house of representatives i did hear people claiming and screaming and hollering and crying about impartiality fairness when adam schiff was holding meetings in closed meetings when he was not subpoenaing witness and that he could have hat witnesses he could have subpoena people and all of these things that he did not do it was not a fair process to president trump and when you look at the for your previous question about the impact of this the impact will be on the party who brought the charges going back to president clinton he had very high approval ratings at a very successful presidency but also the republicans suffered in the in the next election the democrats overreach is going to hurt them and hurt them and it's going to hurt them in this election as well the president's approval and support amongst the base and the democrats inability to shift the country and more support of impeachment look even in the house to democrats at least voted against their own party and to bring these articles of impeachment right not as cut and dry as the these people are making it out to be organized purely politics and the articles of people are so razor thin and so flimsy it's a joke rabbit coming to you suggest that the democrats might have been mistaken in choosing the articles of impeachment he says they're flimsy and instance to insubstantial do you agree with that. no i don't agree with that i do think that they are not as strong as you. as you would like an impeachment proceeding but but let me say this i am you should not bring in impeachment. shouldn't impeach a president who lies you have in my judgment the support of both parties and support generally of the american people. you're seeing now how difficult it is every issue is being fought and so usually you have to have general support in any way most of the american people and both political parties now i do think you put your finger on something if the republicans are perceived as of strutting justice here and are perceived as are opposing every every move. the manages of the of the 'd impeachment those. trying to make this will be very harmful to the president whereas if they just let things alone a little bit i think just the numbers alone world will cause there to be an acquittal on the charges but if the republicans keep fighting the way they're fighting and the issues that they're fighting i think it could be arriving 'd on the republicans and take away seriously from an acquittal right and michael one of the biggest contrasts if you like between the clinton impeachment process and this was the bipartisan nature i mean robert just just alluded to it the bipartisan name. of the senate and the agreement on the rules in the prison and the procedure as to how to complete the process and that is so clearly lacking in this particular case is this an indication of of how polarized us politics is at the moment. absolutely it's sort of you know reached a point where to get it's almost impossible to get bipartisanship on anything especially as it relates to the president but i just want to make a couple of quick points you know i do think the republicans have one valid point here which is that the house could have pushed further to subpoena the witnesses that the democrats now say are essential for this trial they did subpoena charles cupp arman the deputy to john bolton who actually had the same lawyer as john bolton and that case was proceeding judge richard leone in the in washington d.c. set a schedule for briefs and i think that the democrats flinched they were worried that leon might rule against them and they pulled the subpoena for copper mn they withdrew it and that made the entire case moot i think they did so for tactical reasons because if we only had ruled against them then that would have undercut the 2nd article of impeachment they were planning obstruction of congress because if you had one judge who ruled against the democratic position it would have been a lot harder to bring that case so i think i understand tactically why they did it but strategically in the long run that may come back to haunt them one other point about bolton's testimony i do think bolton is the key witness here nobody has any idea what he's going to say you know there's i like to get the bob's. reflections on this there's old standard for trial lawyers you never ask a question of a witness when you don't know what the answer is going to be this is that in spades if they ever get bolton to testify. you know he could blow up on the democrats face . or he could completely confirm their case or it could be something in the middle it's a complete wild card and that's why. you know there's a lot of drama to this trial even if we believe we ultimately know the outcome paris we do believe that we know the outcome don't we expect president trump to be acquitted so what would you say is actually on trial at this particular moment what exactly stands who exactly stands to win and who could possibly lose from this process. you know at the end of the day this entire charade is about politics and and the people who lose are the american people because rather than having the congress work in a bipartisan nature to get things done i prefer reducing the costs of prescription drugs and infrastructure and other important issues that are important to this country they're focused on this partisan. it tempt at getting the president out of office and so we know what the end result is going to be about we don't we knew it from the very beginning because you've had multiple members of congress that are sitting there as house managers have talked about repeatedly that their number one goal and they were going to continue to try to find ways to impeach president trump and even congressman maxine waters said she's going to continue to dig up dirt and try to find more things to impeach him on because they are just so upset the fact that he's that he not only one but that he's doing so many good things for the american people that they don't want to give him credit for so i into the day we're all losers because of this process that the democrats are doing and rabbit if paris is right in the american people are viewing what appears to be a kind of broad kampala ticks what's the state of the constitution at the end of all this if indeed it's been a wrong move on the part of the democrats and people suggesting that this is being used as a political ploy in order to gain electoral advantage i mean what's the state of that tough to rule of this well i think the constitution will take a head. if that if that if that is the case but i you know the constitution is survived for a very long time and it will it will survive this. and i think that even if president trump is acquitted by the senate which i think is more likely much more likely 'd. will just go 'd on and i don't think the constitution will be blamed. and that's why it's i think very important for. president trump and his followers to allow the process to go forward and not be blamed for the. engineering and acquittal by not allowing witnesses to it or documents to be produced all right we're running out of time so i'd like to move and give the final word to michael because we because we haven't spoken about the 4 democratic presidential hopefuls or at least the nominees in waiting if you like who are locked in this senate process not being able to complete compete out on the hustings with their other rivals for the candidates here what about bernie sanders elizabeth warren and the other 2 what sort of impact is this going to have on their campaigns. well it's clearly going to hurt them because they can't be in iowa and new hampshire at a crucial period when the caucus in the primary is scheduled so in that sense one could argue that. former vice president biden is the winner here although it is also possible that he could end up as a witness if the republicans if the democrats get to subpoena bolton it's pretty pretty clear that the republicans will come back and will at least subpoena 100 biden and possibly vice president former vice president biden as well so i'm not sure he's entirely clear there. clearly the democratic the republican response is going to try to be is going to try to show that the president had legitimate grounds to make that extraordinary quest of presidents alinsky to investigate biden they're going to try to show he had that there was ample reason for that and if they do and it breaks through that's that's not going to be helpful to the vice president's campaign right thank you all very much indeed we could talk forever couldn't we thank you so much michael isikoff robert bennett and paris and i thank you all very much indeed and as ever thank you for watching the program you can see it again anytime you not by going to the website al-jazeera dot com should she want more discussion that's our facebook page facebook dot com full with sasha 18 side story you can also join the conversation on twitter at a.j. inside story and i'm at 19 dennis so for me and the whole team here in doha it's by phone now. when the news breaks if you don't want today the current government has lost the trust of the people by god to anything because the protesters are against it when people to be cut by fort worth will represent the lofty goals for opponents of rex it's drawing from the conservatives al-jazeera has teams on the ground it now hopes the meeting in paris will push politicians to create a competent and credible government to bring you more rewards when documentaries and light moves on air and online. when a french soldier was murdered in a so-called terrorist attack. his mother retaliated with a love. speaking 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