Growing frustration with lebanons economic crisis protesters are angry that 3 months of antigovernment demonstrations seem to have gone nowhere whats needed to break the stalemate in the 11th leadership willing to change the political system this is inside story. Hello and welcome to the program im Richelle Carey for 3 months now people in lebanon have been demanding change worsening economic crisis means many cant find jobs pay for basic goods or even withdraw money from the bank theyre blaming political leaders for corruption and mismanagement and after months of peaceful rallies the protestors are calling for a week of rage Police Fire Tear gas and Water Cannons to disperse crowds near the parliament in beirut on saturday only 400 people were injured or testers are repeating their demand for lebanon sectarian political system to end they want to new government and dependent experts who have no links with traditional parties. I think that the message of everybody staying here is that the more of these violence they face the more resolution a fight if it was faced and returned we are in an economy to grow says everybodys going to get hungry everybody is going to need to do this sooner i dont have to convince anybody about whats happening to do its clear whats happening who can get a hold of their money in the banks weve lost everything funnily everything this is good with 5000 years of this through the there is an amazing country they took everything we have nothing left this is our only option is to go down on the streets and violence we have to use violence well fight being before the year corrupted government take a look at how all this developed nationwide protests began in october against high living costs for Public Services and government corruption by the end of the month Prime Minister saad hariri had resigned but stayed on in a caretaker role reforms were proposed and a new Prime Minister considered but several nominees were forced to drop out and Prime Minister designate haas on the yob was accepted and tried to form a cabinet but that failed as political factions began arguing the latest violence was sparked by the formation of a new government being delayed and the economy further deteriorating thats led to banks limiting the withdrawal of dollars and foreign transfers. Lets introduce our panel of guests in beirut rania masri an elected Council Member of the Political Party citizens and a state by sky. A specialist on lebanese and middle east politics and elias for her a retired military general welcome to all of you so. What one of the protesters said we are in free fall now what happened last night comes from peoples real pain and anger on you what do you make of that assessment. This is exactly correct i mean what happened yesterday is an escalation of whats been happening for more than 90 days and its the direct responsibility of those in power or those who claim to be in power because they have shown complete incompetence if not direct unwillingness to resolve the core crisis the core crisis is that of an economic bankruptcy and the economic bankruptcy is a consequence of their political bankruptcy and their decision not to resolve the problem its been my 90 days its been more than one month since her son adel was appointed Prime Minister and what has been resolved what economic plans have been presented absolutely nothing weve been getting the ring around while peoples incomes continue to fall and this country spirals even further into economic bankruptcy what the protesters have been saying for more than 90 days is they dont trust this leadership we dont trust this leadership we are calling for a peaceful transition of authority a peaceful negotiated transition of power so we can finally become building a civil state and this Country Building what needs to be built and stepping away from this very divisive corrupt broken sectarian Political Leadership that has caused this economic bankruptcy in the economic bankruptcy that us calls the violence that were seeing in the streets jamil what do you see as what was that the Tipping Point that really made this escalate in the last 24 to 48 hours where you think the Tipping Point is. Yes thanks for having me i think there is a decision by the ruling class she pressed the testers so. This is clear in the way you know the riot police were behaving for 2 nights they were directly pressing you know past years and they were very brutal in unprecedented were in recent. Years and so i believe. That is that the situation by. And and you know people as you know and with these nations on the street yep so you think that it was it was the police and the government side that escalated that escalated this and it was a its a deliberate tactic that theyre using to deal with the protesters as out youre saying. I mean of course you know people are fed up theres been a sit on your sand you know on the streets for 90 of these now and it wouldnt cost has trended that you know and a blind eye to the demands of the broadcasters and till now they havent done any anything in order to respond to the demands but not only to the demands of the testers in order to find solutions for attention the economy going to financial. Collapse so yes there is a decision but this decision is also a reaction to the fact that protestors out of what is good and theyre going to continue their fight and struggle in order to finance minister transition into a new government and into a new political order elias what are your thoughts on why this is escalated so much in the last 24 to 48 hours Human Rights Watch pacifically says that and their point of view from what theyre hearing the Security Force response has been brutal and that this is a culture of impunity that for police abuse whats your take on why things are are to celebrating so quickly and both were brutal. The most 3rd those were bjork brutal they burned their bank the fact the difference is the 167. 00 of them seriously injured this is the 1st time that the Police Forces. And the gorge just this. Situation. There was 30 of the brought with them masks them. Many storms and throw stones on the Police Forces and this was on the t. V. Directly so both were brutal. And this is the mistake of those sides but the question as to why now why yesterday thats because for the forming the new government when mr has found that it is it needed to form the new government the message and in front of his house for 3 days and then they. d left without any. Resistance from any Security Force and now he is about to form the government we saw that there is an escalation in. The demonstrations and the protesters are. Using new new styles and in an environment the steps in there are. In their opposition the most efficient so i think that the those who are behind the the most threat of given that most of them came from to put it by busses through a route they have something in the government and the new government they have some opposition about some people they have. Some think that its still now unknown because there is something unknown and all the and all this distorted that is something unknown who or what and this time and or that this violence ok hold on hold on when you say unknown are you saying that its not that its not clear to you what the protesters want because they seem to have been pretty clear. No i dont think that they are clear what i was to be why not before why why they are using this discourse why theyre burning. The bank admitted during a bank a lie there ok was a was. A lie and dont blame the security for all the lies told id run you want i could tell ron your wife to answer that question response yes yes. Theres a theres 2 very Critical Issues here one is of course the banks would be a natural place for protesters to express their justified anger because the brank the banks have been collaborating with the socalled ruling class with the political authorities in stealing the public money and stealing but the process and creating this financial crisis they have been part and parcel of the problem but more critically here is the question does the ruling class and those in authority do they view the demonstrations as the problem which is a problem that they seek to solve or to say if you know that its the nomic collapse the financial bankruptcy as the problem because they are behaving as if people in the streets are the cause of the problem rather than people in the streets being the consequence of the problem the problem in this country is the collapse of our economy and our economy has collapsed specifically because of the political financial and economic decisions taken by this Political Leadership therefore when people protest in the streets from tripoli all the way to the south from battles all the way to our mountains what we are protesting is very clear we no longer trust this sectarian Political Leadership we are demanding the building of a civil secular state one that will provide our economic and social needs one that will represent us all equally and not look at us as sacks and as communal communities within one day sion the protesters are being very clear unfortunately the politicians quote and. Well it seemed to regard the protesters as the problem ok hold on by me and their leadership was the problem of the bankruptcy of the problem ok let me put that put that to you male so shes saying that that the protesters. At least by the people in power are viewed as the problem as opposed to what really set them off in the 1st place is that because these are the people whose livelihood. Way of life that they feel is being threatened because its worked for them to mail yes of course i mean its about time to to to admit that evolution is now in these main political actor in the country and this is something that they do in class doesnt really want to they could nice so in a way we always try to find you know some and some reasons to deny them agency and we say its either they come from tripoli or they dont have leaders to present that if it will show what did they want i mean its cute what do they want or do they might not have plans for the transitions but they have to have a clear discourse and the discourse is were fed up with this ruling class and we watched a new government in the bend in the government and we want to find solutions for the diet economy situations its about time to admit that of the notion is a main political actor and we should think of nice spend it wouldnt longer to be in the night and that in the night and you have the out for now has been you know one once and. You know it has a visit made to the Prime Minister and now he did not in the dress the Public Opinion and now we dont know what are the gemini guidelines of his attentions rescue plan in our distil busy negotiating with this but that decision and that politician and you know adopting the same will mechanisms in forming a government which is the process up or you know. You know taking shares in the by so its not true that the government was about to be formed its not true i mean 2 main. The key actors in this were in cost and sliming they were against forming the government and they were doing it and some of the witnesses would be named informational right now so its the let me ask elias about that elias what do you say to that that its not the protesters that are dragging their feet its its the people that are protesting about the the ruling class that are dragging their feet on getting something done and saad hariri also tweeted in the past couple days he said there is a roadmap to calm the popular storm stop wasting time form a government open the door to political and economic solutions. Yes actually the ruling class or the government are not so far in in terms of economy you know that the Banking System in lebanon they have 170000000000. 00 deposits most of them from all sides ive been on because the Banking System as it but i die is of interest they pay more than 10 percent interest of 4. 00 u. S. Dollars for example they are under the complete authority of the Federal Reserve and theyre not the United States and when the secretary of treasury they can measure of. Making the most fair money to lebanon between them difficult and impossible that means the all the bank excess system will collapse and the start collapsing 3 years ago after the tight budgets of the secretary of treasury who visit that lebanon ok. I mean this is the beauty of that of the man and several times and this all on how much pressure its not ok to lie basically last as i understand it youre saying that theyre perhaps or are outside forces that may be contributing to this and well get to that in a moment but 1st and foremost people in beirut that the ruling class in lebanon the question again is could they not had been moving the ball forward and the past 3 months yes the formation of the government needs to an accord between this about but this is a president that in the parliament in order to do the government to take confidence of the parliament and do it to start to do work so the Prime Minister of the. Consulting several parts in order to fair for the government really i think it is a stick to form a government of specialists and people who are not politicians or not the i mean the not the tent here or there but it because the ends his working on this but you know we have to admit that his men his dust is. Very difficult needs some people to support them but told them ok ok ron your letter must give them a chance ok ok ok ok elias all of the snow earlier on it was i may go ahead i may i i agree with much of what mr allies to said much of what he said he confessed and they can all its basically that this ruling class has known of the crisis for at least 3 years and they have done nothing to deal with it he has been all this that this ruling class is quote not sovereign and i agree with him they are not sovereign because they are held hostage to their sectarian representations within the country rather than representing all of lebanese and all the flags on an equally i agree with him this ruling class cannot leave the country for it it is not an issue of whether we develop a government of technocrats or a government of specialist this ruling class has their technocrats they have their experts we dont have a problem of lack of knowledge we have a problem of lack of political courage a lack of political responsibility we need politicians in this country who can take our country forward they need to have the courage and the expertise and the leadership and they need to represent all of us lebannon therefore they cannot be beholden to these sectarian political turmoil these ok what we have a roadmap forward we have come that ok really just building a government with with exceptional legislative power all right rather a writer called a just a momentous moment to me i want to i want to bring this back to actually something that that ron and elias both talked about is is the Banking System lets remind our viewers what early on it is a given day right now how difficult how frustrating how demoralizing it is for someone trying to get their money and they cant what is this experience like. Yes its about it its very its very new for a long time the lebanese some hard it trust of the Banking Sector and theyre willing class was promoting. Their wing ideology was promoting and Banking Sector and and lebanon as you know a very positive very strong and then it ended up being exactly the opposite so people are being you know what they think theyre struggling and that after the income to it was the banks theyve been humiliated some you know some we see you know some people are crying and others that are complaining because they cannot get it and the next is that the assets and this is you know frustrating so going back to the question that the gender ask why in our life because now they have more longer can support the situation and they will things to change so we should not blame the poor testis will be fine and we should see why the banks id be extremely fine and against. And those who have the posits spanx and as a specialist in the lebanese the middle east politics to expect this did you expect these protests to last to last this long could you tell that as a separate dollars. And of course these protests are there to stay. By the day were proving that the lebanese and slice and young people. And that is a gem of an optic opinion supporting these protesters before we have a discourse. You know debate is ation and saying you know these protesters some of them are infantry duesler not what would be nice to be and yesterday it is it is a Public Opinion not necessarily in crediting you know these rioters but same people who are fed up so yes there are some people part of the combating actions towards the banks towards the power of it is oppressing them which is the a. T. M. Machine which is the bank itself but also there is a general Public Opinion in the country hes saying enough is enough people they cannot support you know these. You know their practices theyre succumbing to and so in one way or another i believe who are going to last and theyre going to continue until you know we formed a new independent government so elias if these protests do continue and perhaps even get worse where is the the political will to actually address what the protesters want that the go back to the unknown as long as the protest of not have clear. Leadership that show themselves there along with a lot elias elias is the real this guy is gone but at that anything to get a real leader would really dig it and go address the protesters to figure this out it cant the critic cannot always be that the protesters are not organized they seem pretty clear that they at least want to be able to go to the a. T. M. Machine and get more than 200. 00. Yes but i mean that there should be a leadership i mean 5 or 6 or 7 or 10 people that represent those protests develop with the other so youre that way as well so are you are you saying as well as this is not unknown are you saying the politicians people the people that know how to loot and political circles are you saying that they dont know how to reach out to their own constituents to see what it is they want yes yes yes yes if you live in lebanon you see that sometimes they say that the revolution is backed by the Lebanese Forces sometimes they say that it does hezbollah sometimes they say that its the innocent how do you sometimes they say and each time its really correct on the ground whats going on on the ground would be correct but they should have a leadership clear leadership in order to do the most of it in front of all the people what they want exactly and to larry how the decisions about how we have heard that i want to talk until tonight and what ive got a life. Thats a life and it. Will we hope that there are mobilizing in order to come to downtown beirut and to resume what this started yesterday so. Who told them that a lot of grant them but dont know what the readership is then we dont know the people the people support of them support them from fighting corruption fight think this ruling class i think the conflict confessional system in lebanon but who are they ok how are our interactions i had taken ok rania and i think often when there are protests we do hear that critique often from people in positions of power that you know theyll say well we dont know whats going on its not organ what do you say to that. I face a quite a cheap shot by the Political Authority i mean lets be serious the cries from the public have been very clear theyve been very clear for more than 90 days these these are decentralized protests happening throughout the country organized by the protesters themselves not organized by any particular Political Party or any particular organization organized by people on the ground and their cries have been unified they we do not trust this Political Leadership as to if they want leaders if this can if this current political ruling class wants to see leadership arise the leadership is the vision itself and the vision is clear we want a different economic structure we want a different political system and the pathway to the political and Economic System is quite clear it cannot be done by the same Political Parties that created the problems that is simply impossible it cant be done by politicians in this country and our country is small enough that we know each other we know who has the leadership who has the expertise who has the knowledge who has the moral courage to take the very difficult decisions and carry this curse legacy of bankruptcy forward so that we can protect all our society with no exceptions we are not standing here particularly here we as citizens of the state malton on what the nazi though we are not standing here to obliterate any member of our community we are not standing here to deny any member of our community we are standing here to take full responsibility for every single individual in this country which is more than i can say for each sectarian Political Party that is holding on to their broken chairs and wasting what is very valuable in this country which is time we do not have time to waste we no longer have the dollars in this country to allow us time to wait all right to lead with those in authority to do what they need to do to have a negotiated political. A peaceful negotiated political transition out of their power and to have those of us with the moral and Political Leadership to be in charge to lead us down tree forward so that we can build a civil state ok and that will have to be the final word and thank you all for this discussion as we said these protests have been going on 3 months well continue to follow them and i suspect well be having this conversation again soon so thank you all for joining us appreciate it ron you must reach out and elias. I thank you for watching you can see the program again anytime go to our website aljazeera talk on for further discussion you can also go to our Facebook Page facebook dot com forward slash a. J. And side story you can also join the conversation on twitter or handle less at a. J. Inside story from me or shall carry on the entire team here by for now were. Going. Big stories generate thousands of lines of media angles in this story are too numerous for comfort with different angles from different perspectives thing has never really been belief deep faith and muddying the water that even separate the spin from the facts the misinformation from the judge was on the set was clear and it sounds to me and clear that with the listening post on aljazeera. Or. I dont know how with the top stories here on aljazeera and libyas warring sides and World Leaders have agreed to help secure a truce in the hope it will develop into a full ceasefire libyan rival groups will meet in geneva by the end of january. I need everyone was in agreement including the regional organizations the arab league the e. U. And of course the African Union that we need a political solution its become evident in the last few days that there is no chance for a military solution which would only increase the suffering of the people. At least 30 people have been injured in a 2nd one to a violent