I have any ok and your in the stream today as bushfires and that this information campaigns that are surrounding them as always we want you to join the discussion if you have questions for i guess you can also will twitter or on youtube. As a stray as wildfires continue to spread so does this information there has been fake news conspiracy theories on social media and even claims that the fires were the work of 200 arsonists while trolls have been behind much of this Mainstream Media outlets such as Rupert Murdoch sky news and the australian newspaper have also been criticised for their coverage all of this is especially contentious in a country where Climate Change has long been a controversial topic that often figures as an election issue to help us understand more about this in Central Victoria than bottom shes a writer activist weekly columnist for Guardian Australia and in also norway the time hes an energy and Climate Science communicator its good to have you 2 with us i just want to get your initial reaction to how severe these bushfires are catan 1st of all how would you describe it what would be the headline you would give where we are today. Totally unfamiliar the scale and the magnitude of the fires themselves are completely unprecedented that this many different ways that you can measure the sort of thing but of course when it comes down to it you sort of have to move past the numbers which are all setting credible records and think about the things that you hear so i moved away from australia a few months ago but of course i have a lot of friends and family back home and im hearing things and learning of things that just seem completely that id have no real way of understanding them the venue that i got married out with severely damaged and possibly may not reopen in the future the place where i went on my honeymoon the main street of the town mostly burnt down places that ive holidayed and loved all of my my whole life has been really severely impacted by these fires so of course i look at the numbers and the figures quite a lot that what has played out has been that every Single Person i know back home has been image impacted in some way. Than when i was getting ready to do the show and i also push flies and they will be what it is say tell the evidence that everybodys fate now and time is brought like the. The fire is now just part of our day to day reality the time that you keep hearing is the newest charlie normal my partner and i went down to the shops yesterday we went with a masks on im getting facebook ads for a better quality emma my 78 year old mother who lives in sydney which is a 1000 kilometers wife from a chaise under instructions to not leave the house because the amount of smoke in the impacts on her health thats the shot is coming up of my partner and i with our masks on trains who are terrified about the safety for their children in the high smoke environment nobody was covered in highs yesterday and like places that we know that a social media to us in australia at the places we visit on holidays and for weddings and places where people live in communities i live out in Central Victoria this is now just part of how did i live when they need to eat it in a walk about for us earlier and we said show us where you live so we can see it so this isnt news for us this is you Walking Around your neighborhood when a player you never heard yet play the video and then talk us right here yes. Why are we now so im like a couple of hours from melbourne and i mean the highlands so i mean quite a sight of the country but you can see the impact of the dryness and hate and just looking at thats pramod and thats prime farmland and way used to in australia living through some is but the grass goes brown but were not used to living through some is that a side potch to or to and so hot the grass is going yellow and then why in some of this footage follows walking you could hear the grass literally turning to dust under my face because its so dry and that highs in the distance thats not me east thats nothing romantic im watery thats smart and that smoke from fires which are a couple of 100 kilometers away and this is the problem the smoke is everywhere were living that this perpetual cloud that has untold Public Health impacts that is severely because highly peoples quality of life this trial in art than one of the biggest tourist events in the country is taking place in melbourne at the moment and yesterday the apply is literally dropping in fits of coughs to the ground and part of the problem in a stroller is that the use of climate denial and the why makes about the climate have been sated so comprehensively by an organized Political Movement means that were living in the strange reality where the effects of Climate Change are all around us we live in we are literally in this trying to canary in the coal mine fading feeling all of the predictions about the hate about the dryness about the lack of water the bush flies the team to box continent that we live on and yet all of the Economic Impacts to tourism to events to yesterday we got the warning that so many farms have been affected by the phys that were looking at a likely 50 percent increase in the price of vegetables the impact on the local honey market. But i just want you to take a pause because theres something that i need to do in and for me. This is almost unbelievable because you. Are telling us these these details showing us the pictures were looking at the newspapers and then for me its almost mind blowing that there were some people were saying well these fires werent cause because of Climate Change they were caused because of and a new a whole series of rumors let me put this together 1st of all in terms of the climate deniers all let me say the bush fire denies the reason why the bush fires started im going to show our audience the kind of conversations that are happening in the media in australia and id love you to pick up on it lets have a look im concerned that climate denial is moving into a new phase one that i call climate denial denial and it takes 2 forms one is that groups who have a historic record of denying Climate Change such as the starting government in the murdoch media to have never denied Climate Change and the other is that theyre downplaying the link between the catastrophic fire conditions that were seeing in the sharia and Climate Change and over emphasizing causes that have not changed at all such as arson which is always existed in australia and saying that that is the cause of the bushfire crisis that were seeing this is fica news in fact are only 24 people have been arrested for suspected arson in New South Wales and 0 in victoria so that doesnt explain how a return 1000 homes have been destroyed in this crisis has had as so many years a communique say youll job is to make sure the public get the fact why is this happening in australia right now this is a natural disaster. So back in 2009 this really severe that in australia they were fed serious black saturday and many many people died in those fires and a similar debate sprung up back then decade ago in fact one new school columnist suggested that greeny should be hanged because she was blaming them for contributing to the conditions that resulted in that in the severity of that 2009 bushfire what she was saying is that environmentalist as a part of have opposed reducing fuel load so thats when you burn off parts of the bush to reduce the amount that during an actual bushfire now that mame sprung up in 2009 and its kind of stuck around since what weve seen with these fires is everything that happened back then has is happening now times 1000 so the os an element has has come into it as well where people are kind of scrambling for an alternative explanation that doesnt involve Climate Change and the theory goes that there is an increase in the quantity of us and that is what is behind the severity of australias bushfire season but something thats really important to mention here is that this sort of a sub theory underneath that which basically contends that eco terrorists this sort of often to refer to trying to fake climate disasters and so these people of the awesomeness that a lot but a lighting fires so to me its quite a massive escalation so of course denial of this type specifically around bushfires the Climate Change has been around a while but theres something new and severe about this particular time and i think thats thats really watering and its particularly its quite offensive like it feels really insulting and horrific to hear that it is 6 of course you know. Well this is the thing i mean the the terro as the decent summation in australia at the moment is that its actually quite well organized whereas in the past you know theres a big emergency catastrophe a lot of for him is go around but as somebody who watches the internet and is pot is that sort of ongoing conversation of internet t. V. It is quite obvious that the dissent from narratives have spain organized prepared and sated in order to cope with the political implications of the crisis you cannot imagine the liberal of climate to noddle that influences our stride in politics the liberal National Coalition who our ruling government essentially won an election on a nobodys job will be lost nobodys industry has to change we can still get these wonderful well paid jobs in call mining and i dont want to abandon what has been very successful electoral narrative for them and the way that our political system works where majorities can be put together by appealing to geographical interests in communities and particularly all the Call Community right in australia is a big part of this strategy so guess what were saying now with the skype coding that there was an excellent pace the kind that yesterday from a pollster coldplay to lewis who identified the peten that when the Prime Minister and the government is very wake thats when we say very targeted attack at distance from i should to prop up the latest ship we sort of meet that hide they wake missed and its just everywhere than take a pause time and im going to make you to what we promised that you would ask questions people wanted to ask you questions they were on. You tube right now so called dude 992 says Climate Change is not true with the reasons for the flies and animal casualties are manmade. Quickly Quick Response that that ok so. I think that what the. It is referring to is the decisions around during a reduction so thats when you remove the fuel that i mean that i mentioned earlier so it could also be referring to the arson being but of course when Something Like this happens its not a single event there are many different factors so youve got the thing that starts a fire as the other thing that makes it by spread really quickly and youve got a lot of things that makes those fires have a big impact on lives property animals etc so its not a single thing it it doesnt have a single cause serious really important it is that i dont want to leave you out have and so again back here on you tube weve got james asking why is the world media ignoring the effect of the file an Aboriginal People ive seen whites and animals to include koalas kangaroos snakes and vegetation is i really asking where the aboriginal the native australian in this conversation and it was by saying just indigenous australians have been a large part of the Climate Movement in scum trade value and certainly theres pain extensive coverage from n. I. Today which is National Indigenous television and many aboriginal writers and scientists contributing to the discussion about Climate Change is a present reality in indigenous communities because Climate Change is affecting the relationship of traditional communities to their land and important thing to acknowledge is that far stress management in australia has millenia old history from aboriginal communities using fire in order to reduce fuel load and clear the ground and manage forests and what is particularly just outraging about the disk information that climbs this bay not back burning a physically leaves near a forest that has been managed with fire recently like that is not the scar of the bushfires there are a Forest Management fires taking place every year you can apply to do one on the internet in culturally sensitive the. Areas with large indigenous communities theres an interaction between Government Services in indigenous communities around those practices and to hear that you know the greenies is stopping the burn offs in the greenies stopping it is is an outright lie and confronting that is the most frustrating part of the whole discussion that weve basically live in the silence of what is taking plies there are traditions by still around Forestry Management with fire that part of our lives forest reality and yet the myths dominating reality theres a really good piece by piece and hes an indigenous writer in australia and he talks a lot about how you can understand modern Climate Change denial by understanding australias history of if sort of dealing with rejecting information so of course culturally in australia theres it theres a bit of a refusal to deal with its ugly past and and so australia as a whole has some experience in putting ideas out of its mind as a collective now im not sure that this is going to be maintained particularly well through 2020 i think these bushfires it had a really big impact on everybody but its a really good perspective in terms of understanding how easy it is for people on mass to start thinking about something and kind of just stop lying about it because i can i ask you to do some time of science for around bushfires because i know you have a lot of facts your fingertips for instance is it possible for that lightning and clouds and that and that to actually also stop the push last cool explain that bit of the thats at the best by science. An article popped up on my feet earlier today and it said that australia is bushfire is a very science fiction. And that really its something thats been going through my mind every time i look at the facts of the science in the in the daughter about these bushfires is that it reads like a fictional novel and those clowns that you mention so well when it went to push really hard it creates this these things called pirate convective clouds what that means is that because they cloud forms and it has this thing called dry lightning so its not raining but there is a lightning occurring in this cloud that has been formed from pushed by a smoke and that lightning can start new bush is now that sounds on the nose to me that sounds like something that i would read in a in a novel in the year 2000 by i caught fire and. I have trouble reading that and thinking that im reading a scientist talking about something that is actually happening in the place that i call hard but it is happening on a level that hasnt happened before in australia so you can actually measure the occurrence of these pirate he would have formations and of course like many many other dot of points that we used to try and look at these fires and understand how they manifesting its happening far more than weve ever recorded in the past so that is a really big problem and its part of it sort of illustrates how these fun is not something that very easily managed so of course as that mentioned australia dedicates a lot of time to managing fire and understanding bushfire what has happened is now in this fire season is that they have changed shape theyve become bigger and stranger and more terrifying and its going to take time to even understand the way that they are now but it holds the climate is changing and the bushfires manifest in australia will change as well let me say this is make a fire as they say is that the time they using is the main. The fire where the fires actually converge into the slot 40 foot walls of slime and no one firefight is forestry manages governments has ever seen anything lockers let me in you mentioned government plan and you have done for this conversation very important have a look a this is a tweet here this is a tweet about your Prime Minister and the fire response because if the weve got mega fires in australia the response has got to be mega so looking at the fire response here youve got a can or tweet fight why thats a reference to him being on holiday when some of the bushfires were at their worst forced handshakes we get about it a moment hows goods the cricket is that so its not being very complimentary to your Prime Minister but its not just one man whos got to manage that its your government van how do you rate them how are they doing. The job done by the federal government and the government in New South Wales has been conspicuously poor and there has been considerable political fallout from whats going on because a back i said before the National Coalition is very vested in climate denial as an election Winning Strategy and this whole promise that nobodys life has to change can i be knowing that has to be one of the ill be an election winning. Idea because of that because if they have because we have single mit member electrets that i geographically so if youre from a Call Community and someone is telling you and infamously this is happened in australia where a group of environmentalists got into a convoy during the election and drive out to. The saints in queensland to typically resource based communities Whose Industries have been in decline with these very high unemployment and essentially lectured everybody on how coal was bad in 1000 jobs was bad its a very tricky conversation talking about transition and talking about the economic outputs of Climate Action and what thats going to maine and how that will be winners and losers in that conversation its nuanced and its difficult and bringing those communities we cleared requires a lot of time and sensitivity to this session and time and time and sensitivity that feels like its a really good point for me to just i need to share a little moment of your Prime Minister when he was going around and this is what needs to show and that empathy and this is what happened about 2 weeks ago have a look have a listen. Very. Very very you know you never. Know where youre going to have to give more time to higher than that may be because your. Neighbors are saying. They need to know now. Not to go running out and well right now not well at all. You know are now in the political upticks times that wound down like a lead balloon in the last. Thing im trying to think of the plight of desperate i caught. That to your Prime Minister. The funding that is really important a time can you run with how much money do you need to fight a mega file magnifies what do you need what was also a student to this bushfire season i saw headlines in the National Broadcaster that basically just said we cant defend this town we you have you all have to leave this town and we you have to abandon your homes because we do not have the resources to fight this fire so the question of how much money you need to fight these fires is is really really tricky because these are new disasters that are certainly it is the scale of them is completely unprecedented which means the amount of money that you need to fight them the amount of time and effort that you put it to understanding them that all needs to increase significantly its a real problem for Scott Morrison because by doing that he acknowledges that they on year in that theyre extremely dangerous and extremely impassable and of course in doing that he would be considered to be publicly accepting that Climate Change is the core reason that these fires have gone that theyve been intensified now that is a long running problem. Members of the current government so thats the liberal National Party being too strong on Climate Change has led to the demise of a few of its leaders. Because there are members of the party who really dont like to hear that and particularly having strong Emissions Reductions policy that leads to actual Emissions Reductions that is something that leads to a problem is this getting knocked up their perch as well so i want to i want to rain down on 2 things that you found a really stood out for as a stray and as a strain to know that there was a bushfire season what is remarkable for here and im going to prompt you from your twitter page here a strain is east coast fires truly scary and i love a good satellite image look at this though what are we saying here catan so did that to satellite from him already 8 steer stationary satellite or sort of flies directly above us really and ive been ive been a massive you know i like download that data from that satellite all the time and i visualize things and of course this time i present having fun at all it was it was horrifying seeing my country just sitting there like a piece of crumpled up paper that says that smoking in the wind and of course it really shows that this is a planetary thing the smoke from those fires is about to traverse the entire world and looped back into australia so its a good time to take a pause because i still want van to beatus tell tell us what is them the most remarkable thing that you saying knowing bushfire has was the most remarkable things in the season. Theyre just moving so quickly i mean weve got an evacuation notice at our house for a fire that was 10 kilometers away because the combination of dryness in the wind and the haze mains that theyre now as siphoning will i had a friend who was sheltering on the beijing by inspire with a tray children who had to consider whether she was going to evacuate in a car because if i had told the man that i couldnt get out a friends father elderly man lost his house in his disinvited town there are now people who are living in chicken coops because there is no housing another friends parents almost lost their house they were part of. The crew to transportation with the navy had to come and rescue people from the bait in by its way acing images of small children under red skies with oxygen masks on and we have to deal with the fact that we are in a new disaster area that our country has changed a continent is vulnerable and al whats happening here is a warning to the rest of you who are old Climate Change is not about Tropical Temperatures and longer Summer Holidays its about absolutely unprecedented devastation and unless there is a Global Community to take that seriously we are all real to joshi thank you so much to a strange talking about their study and bushfires the magnifier as from a journalistic and a communication perspective thank you for being part of the program youll see me online always at 8 a strange thanks so much. 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