A trade counting the cost on aljazeera. All. See. The middle east Peace Process is a term spin used by World Leaders time and time again it refers to efforts made by the International Community to end the Israeli Palestinian conflict. One of the most significant events of the past 50 years is the oslo accords a set of agreements that were 1st signed in 1993 by the governments of israel and the Palestine Liberation Organization to put in place a series of procedures based on un resolutions for the eventual goal of an independent palestinian state and to oversee this agreement the u. N. Established the office of the special coordinator for the middle east Peace Process. The coordinators mandate is to lead the u. N. System in all political and diplomatic efforts related to the Peace Process but nearly 30 years since its establishment what impact has it had on palestinians and israelis and the broader region the u. N. Special coordinator for the middle east Peace Process nicholai modern off talks to aljazeera. Nicholai 11 off u. N. Special coordinator for the middle east Peace Process thank you for talking to aljazeera can i perhaps start with fact your job title you are the special coordinator for the middle east Peace Process is there actually a middle east Peace Process right now. And i seem to be the only one stuck with it on my business card. There is no middle east Peace Process i dont think either the israeli or the palestinian side. For the various Different Reasons are in a position to actually currently engage in meaningful negotiations weve seen over the last few years the International Architecture for supporting Israeli Palestinian negotiations also threatened and under pressure and i feel that a lot of our work current leigh has focused more on preventing war in gaza focusing a lot and preventive diplomacy preserving the consensus internationally as much as possible on how the Israeli Palestinian conflict can be resolved. And really working quietly to build conditions for the future leadership on both sides to actually hopefully come back to the negotiating table in a meaningful manner. President trump seems to think theres a middle east Peace Process is put it is son in law jarrett cushion or in charge of it what do you know of the plan is there a question of plan even what we havent seen anything it i stay in touch with our american friends quite often we meet with jerrold and others and my position to them has always been very clear if you want to. Come up with a plan that is meaningful one should start by saying that israelis and palestinians must separate into separate states thats a very basic premise and it is not just because thats the consensus in terms of u. N. Resolutions and International Law and Bilateral Agreements but its also the only way to. Achieve the nat natural if you wish aspirations for both peoples to have statehood secondly it must be in line with what un resolutions another documents include and that is pretty much what the consensus for the rest of the world is and how to resolve Israeli Palestinian question and thirdly it must be done in a way that it brings the parties back to the table because i dont and perhaps this is just me coming from the balkans into the middle east but i feel very strongly that outsiders can help but they can never do the job for for for for other people and if that we have a role to play in this conflict that is to facilitate to help but never to impulse and i think this is constructive advice to our american friends we still havent seen any proposal on the table but we continue talking to everybody and what do you think the american position is on that basic idea a 2 state solution there was that economic conference in bahrain and there was no mention there from the american side of an actual sovereign palestinian state there was no mention but if you read the conference documents carefully and the proposals that they came up with for the Economic Development of palestine you could perhaps see the outline. That if you implement all the projects that were put on the table particularly some of them that link the gaza to the west bank and others you could see the outline of a future state what im concerned with is that when the u. S. Officially does not want to say the 2 states is the core of the position. That they hold that they depart from the consensus that has for a very long time. Ruled internationally how this conflict is resolved and it also feeds unfortunately into the situation on the ground because what we have on the ground is you know some people say its a one state reality i will say its a one state reality of perpetual occupation and anger and frustration and thats not a good situation for us both for palestinians or israelis you also see a lot of people today question the very idea that its you can untangle palestinians and israelis into 2 separate entities 2 states and say well you know we have to go in a different direction no longer should we have the goal of 2 states perhaps we should have one state. That has equal rights for everyone arabs jews muslims christians everyone. In these discussions unfortunately i feel very easy to take hold in the public sphere but if challenge to they really dont terms of the very basic questions that both you know israelis and palestinians to face i remember about 2 years ago asking your boss the secretary general and tony of the terrorists about the viability now of a 2 state solution he said yes its still just about viable that was 2 years ago do you believe its viable now or have the israelis built on it well i suppose i should say its just viable. But the reality is changing on the ground every day and that reality is at all levels if you look at the. Facts on the ground if you see the expansion of settlements and i dont mean just the physical building of houses but the infrastructure that accompanies the settlements. If you look at the rate of demolition of palestinian structures in area c. Area sees the area which is under civilian control by israel of the west bank. You see less and less land that is available for of people if you look but its not just the land its also the National Narratives of both israelis and palestinians have gone in very Different Directions if in the early ninetys late ninetys early 2000 people were enthusiastic about reaching out to each other and having joint projects and working together now theres a trend to not talk to each other. And this is very dangerous and thirdly i think very importantly is the continuing level of violence which undermines the basic trusts between people and also undermines the ability to return to negotiations and hence on this really side ive hardly met an israeli who doesnt believe that another Peace Process. Doesnt end up in more violence for them for the israelis and ive hardly met a palestinian who doesnt believe the move the Peace Process ends up in more losses for the palestinians of loss of land or loss of dignity it makes it a very complicated situation and i will admit that one does need to think out of the box on how to. Constructively reengage you talk about out of the box thinking clearly the question a plan if there was one certainly with regard to the 1st part in bahrain was get the money flowing 1st get the economy flowing 1st but if seen that philip figures in the Palestinian Authority were very dismissive of that hamas said palestine is not for sale that whole idea is dead in the water isnt it. Well i dont i dont think you can really. How to put it i dont think you can really convert the political issue into a just a humanitarian or a or a an issue of salaries and Economic Opportunity certainly the economy is a very major part of it. And if i look at just gaza as an example of what we as the u. N. Together with egypt and others have done over the last. 2 years weve actually approached it in a different way weve said look in gaza and let me expand a little bit on that we have a very serious set of problems that may lead us to war weve divided these problems into 3 sets Security Issues that need to be addressed humanitarian issues development and getting jobs for people and couple has been critically important in providing support for the u. N. In that respect and thirdly political issues unity rational unity and a way forward we need to admit that there is a very serious security challenge on the ground both for israelis and for palestinians whether its in gaza or israel proper and the west bank very serious security threats ranging from terrorists or rockets and and arrests and all kinds of other incidents the very serious economic challenges because when the Current System thats and place for the Palestinian Economy it was designed in 1904 its quite a long time ago and were constantly running into bottlenecks for Palestinian Development as you know President Trump sees these things in very black and white terms hes a transactional president he talked as you know about the deal of the century the point man for this working for him and shared cushion or was jason green blatt he clearly doesnt see theres a deal of the century any time soon because he quit his role in september youd think youd want to stay around for a deal of the century given that this question of plan if it exists has been perspire on because of the israeli election and we now are going to have a 3rd try at the israeli election that then gets us into the u. S. This election calendar do you see any possibility of the u. S. Presenting this plan before President Trump leaves office very long century i think american friends must really work hard on any proposal that they put forward if and when they put it. That proposal youre supposed to be the International Community is now in charge of this well its up to them if they want to show it to us i would prefer very much and weve said this often enough is that whatever proposal was put forward that would be shared with the quartet which includes the u. N. The russians and the European Union that we all feed into it so theres some ownership of it that its consulted with arab countries who are critical for any implementation whether its from becoming perspective or to the political. Prospects of it and that is done in a way that actually brings the sides together if that happens whether in the beginning of the century in the middle of the century of the end of the century id be all for it but we havent seen that at this stage and its very speculative to say what the plan includes because none of us have actually read it weve had many discussions and weve exchanged lots of views and ideas on what and how it should be should be in it as you look at the situation on the ground and i think its pretty clear that it is deteriorating you sit in your office used to be called Government House an old Colonial Building on the green line between what was described as east and west jerusalem you can see buildings that have been built illegally im sure from your office there with the Sunken Garden tell me as you look out on that settlement building how the pace of those settlements has changed lets just choose one time period the last 3 years has changed. I would say its been its been fairly consistent its increased perhaps in terms of. Announcements by the governments of plans to build settlements but in terms of the construction rate its been pretty steady. Over the last few years. It is. You know its a very you know because of the israeli election cycle now were into the 3rd election and just over a year its one of the most politicized issues if you wish because some Political Parties believe that more announcements in terms of service and construction etc wins them votes in upcoming elections. And i think this drives a lot of the narrative in that sense where i see a danger coming up rather rather quickly that is in debates which weve heard over the last few months of the possible annexation of the Jordan Valley and northern that sea area now if that would happen that would certainly go against all Bilateral Agreements or Un Security Council another resolutions and pretty much you know all aspects of International Law and it would not be constructive. At all because it would certainly create an environment in which the very prospect of a solution which is so much under threat these states and people are fearful that its slipping from us as you said in the very beginning you know theres practically no Peace Process. If that were to happen its. Im not sure we can preserve that prospect but this is an idea that Prime Minister netanyahu is even come up with a mouth it shows that they would annex 20 to 23 percent of the west bank but its not just him his rival benny gantz is also talking in favor of the idea of an exception it seems that whoever if its one of those 2 is elected as Prime Minister this is something youre going to have to face well you know between words and deeds theres a quite a few steps to take and a lot of complications in between now were in a 3rd election cycle in israel so i expect a lot of things to be said but i do also expect all of us to understand if we want to preserve peace in a very volatile region of the middle east. Where the whole region is quite volatile these days we need to make the extra effort not to create the reasons for further radicalization and for further angering of people whether thats in the west bank whether its in gaza which is currently very much oh focus or anywhere else for that matter has not the Israeli Government current Israeli Government in fact the whole israeli politically elite been encouraged in all this empowered by the trumpet ministration when earlier on i said 3 years the last 3 years youve seen an increase it seems to me to me the figures ive seen and im looking at statistics from peace now quite a large increase in the last 3 years thats the 3 years since President Trumps been in power well i suppose you know there are some people in israel who do feel that the fact that this Us Administration has sided you know 100 percent with israeli positions on a number of issues whether its open mints or the annexation of. To call on or moving the embassy to jerusalem etc i suppose that that encourages some people in israel to think that they can do more but also ultimately if one stops for a 2nd and looks around you have 2000000 palestinians in gaza and whats 3000000 in the west bank theyre not going anywhere. As much as israel has the right to have a state in this in the land between the river. And the sea so today. And if you think that in the future you could have some formula would actually denies them not just that right but denies them the very rights that citizens in any Democratic State you either end up with a state in which your democracy is undermined. Or you end up in a state in which. Ultimately you know. You cant call it a Democratic State that the you know part it says and i think you said thats where a lot of israelis are thinking now these days that well indeed if you. The current status quo. Which is far less violent than many other parts of the region but still unstable and moving in a negative direction if the current status quo were changed. To a situation where you have citizens or who have different rights thats not a good thing do you fear that it could become in a party like system its not for me to label what happens its my reflection on what i hear from people in israel of the fears that they have for the future and i hope that actually we will be able to to to to to get back into what is the what is what is the right track to address this this this issue youve mentioned some of the recent actions by the trumpet ministration they recently overturned 40 years of u. S. Policy and said settlements while theyre not necessarily illegal they there are taking a position that goes against International Law would you say thats definitely the case though thats just as weve said through Security Council quite quite clearly and secretary general has been very outspoken on that. Indeed even if the future of settlements is an issue of negotiation the. Expansion their existence their development is against u. N. Security Council Resolutions and hence International Law and then. An exciting part of the golan again that is a violation of International Early years ok and the recognition of jerusalem as israels capital again which you say that is a violation of International Recognition of jerusalem as israels capital by the u. S. Is taking a position on one of the final status issues as theyve been defined by the israelis and palestinians was for a very long time and the final status issues include druce worm and settlements in the. And. Borders and based on the 67 line and access to water and refugees and all of these issues so when when the u. S. Changed its position in terms of jerusalem as in all of these other examples that you quoted it didnt change what the International Consensus is because if you go to the Security Council meetings which we have monthly on this on the subject. And you hear the rest of the Security Council members and you look at the votes in the General Assembly and you look at you know the discussions in europe etc elsewhere in the arab world certainly. The consensus is still there the future of the future status of jerusalem has to be decided in most haitians lets move weve talked a lot about the americans and the israelis lets talk about the palestinians and this endless talk of trying to get. The 2 palestinian groups together this talk of elections do you see any progress at all. Well i see progress in the talks. Im still skeptical that elections will happen and im very much fearful that this division which has existed between gaza and the west bank within fatah and hamas and for what 13 years now. Im sorry to say it its like a cancer. Its a cancer eating away of the very Palestinian National course and i hope that now after all the discussions all the efforts that we put in place to prevent another war in gaza and all the work that weve done to get fatah and hamas to make compromises on the road to elections that we will actually see a vote and palestine that elects a new Legislative Council in the next new president ial leadership this is the agreement and this is a promise that president abbas made and this is a promise that needs to be delivered upon how could the palestinian cause change if there was one unity and 2 younger more vibrant leadership president abbas is 84 years old he is currently serving the 15th year of what was supposed to be a 4 year term and theres no Legislative Council which was disbanded recently there are issues with the traditionally and finances are problem finance is a very serious problem. If you actually managed to get back into sort of a normal democratic election cycle through elections. Then then it least the legitimacy of the institutions will not be questioned and a government that is elected both by the people in the west bank and in gaza will have a legitimate claim and will need the support to be able to govern both i think that will be a fundamental change to the equation. Right now i fear that if we leave things and attended the way they are now. Theyll be just more illusion more more more anger more disillusionment with the future and im really really fearful and i see this. Very carefully that if you look at the rest of the middle east if you look at iraq for example if you look at syria leaves if you leave a Community Long enough marginalized and disempower and disenfranchised and segregate and closed that community collapses and becomes a breeding ground for radicals do you fear another all we dont want to see that happening in palestine do you feel you know youre doing all day weve weve seen 3 wars since 2008 in november there was a couple of days of very Serious Violence do you fear that they could be another war in gaza i fear every single day that were just days away from another war in gaza i hope that we can we can you know the calm that we have now the relative calm that we have now we can use to to to to consolidate whats been achieved over the last few over the last year. And move away from this constant cycle fearing that every week every friday every monday an incident may happen and it may drag a sore back into another devastating conflict that conflict will not just be terrible for the People Living in gaza extremely damaging for the people who live in israel particularly around with communities around gaza but but but really. I think really devastating for the rest of the region its now 27 years since the oslo process started that was a time of great hope as you now look at the situation which you follow and monitor so closely every single day can you tell me one sign of hope even. Well were still there and i dont mean we as the u. N. But the people who have really really invested in this quarter of a century that youve just quoted in building institutions. You know one i went to ramallah maybe this was more than a year ago for some for some meeting and people were getting very angry and saying well you know what well just throw away the keys and invite is released come back and take it all over it cetera et cetera. You know youre not renting an apartment. Its your own land you dont just throw away the keys the amount of effort that has been made in moving from where the p. L. O. Was when the. Also agreements were signed to actually building up state institutions and functioning state institutions is immense and its an immense achievement for the Palestinian People they cant give up on that they shouldnt give up on that and we as the International Community shouldnt give up on that. U. N. Special coordinator for the middle east Peace Process thank you for talking to our. Frank assessments. About the. Really whats going on the. 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